Blade or Boot Troubles??

[eliza1]

This has probably been covered in several different threads over the past couple of years, but I am having such issues that I just had to ask if anyone could share some advice! I am an adult skater (started in my mid thirties from scratch and have now been skating for 9 years). I have always worn Wifa (Champions) boots and started in a club 2000, then Coronation Aces and then Phantoms. Phantoms took a few months to get used to but I loved them. Back in the spring I needed another pair of Wifas (my third), they had changed the design (the heel felt a bit higher) and the new ones felt a bit odd but I knew I would eventually adjust. Several weeks later I also changed to Gold Seal blades -- my Phantoms had worn down and my coach was putting most of her skaters into Gold Seals so she suggested to give them a try! Although they were very fast, I seemed to feel unstable, however, I thought this might be due to the Wifa boot being a new design (the heel was a bit higher) and the fact that I had just gone to a different rocker. It almost felt like I was perched up on my toes. In June, I was so desperate with my skating that I changed my boots to a Riedell (a much lower heel), my sit spins improved because the Riedell (Gold Star) was far more supple then the Wifa but I never felt I had the ankle stability in my jumps. Fast forward another 6 months and my skating has steadily declined -- I seem to wobble and have slight balance readjustments, it is very frustrating. At present I am landing 2 sals enough to have in programs, inconsistently I land 2 loops - spinwise, flying camels but not doing flying sits yet.

It is now time to start training programs and I constantly feel as though I am still having balance issues. Two of the screws in my heel of the Riedells broke the other day and I have not been able to drill them out of the heel yet, so in desperation I put my old Phantoms on my Wifas and skated this morning. They felt a bit weird at first and quite slow to my Gold Seals, however, after a bit they actually felt more stable! Saying this, is it because the rocker is so worn on my old Phantoms?

The rear stanchon on the Gold Seals is so much higher than the Phantoms -- would this be why I feel pitched on my toes when the Gold Seals were on my Wifas? But even in the Riedells, I ams till having balance issues! I am 5' 1" tall and wear a size 1 skate with an 8 1/2" blade -- not that this information is probably pertinent.....If anyone can shed some light on problems from going to a Gold Seal from a Phantom or just any helpful information as I am so frustrated at the moment! Thanks!

[Query]

Congratulations!

How wonderful you could make so much progress as an adult skater.

I'm so jealous. We should all have your problems.

The screws really broke, or just the leather got stripped, and now the screws won't stay tight?

If they broke, you are incredibly strong. What amazing thing were you doing when they broke?

You must have a great coach too. Maybe she/he could help with your skates.

[eliza1]

Thanks Query!! It is just such an addiction!! It only started with me wanting to learn forward and backward crossovers, then you start with 3 turns, mohawks, etc..then 3 jumps, next sals and it just builds and builds, doesn't it??!! I was a competitive gymnast my whole life which has helped tremendously towards flexibility, balance and not having any fear!!

Yes, the screws actually broke off, the last one was on a landing of a flying camel.... the other half of the screws are still down in the heel. All I know is that my skating has been in freefall since the spring and nothing seems stable -- I am constantly having to fight, if that makes sense. And, I am not necessarily talking about on the difficult things, just plain basics!!

Well, I put my old Phantoms on my old Wifa and went to practice and it just felt like old friends again!! They are not as fast as the Gold Seals (and they are quite worn down) but just feel "right"!! Once again, I feel stable -- just wish I could explain it better! Perhaps, as I said before, I was thinking it was the boots but actually it was changing blades to GS, and I should have just kept with the Phantoms becuase I actually liked them!! It is very weird but I actually feel closer to the ice with the Phantoms back on, not so perched up on stilts (for lack of better words)....Perhaps, not all people are cut out for certain blades?? I wonder if having such a tiny foot makes a difference in some blades -- my foot is as small as a 9 year olds ( I wear a size1) -- I don't know but would love to get feedback on people unable to settle into different blades??

[Bill_S]

Congratulations!



The screws really broke, or just the leather got stripped, and now the screws won't stay tight?

If they broke, you are incredibly strong. What amazing thing were you doing when they broke?



I've seen some pathetic examples of fasteners holding blades to boots - I even saw aluminum used once. Aluminum WILL ALWAYS stress fail at some point in it's life after a certain number of loading cycles.

I order boxes of quality stainless steel screws from McMaster-Carr (in the US) for my own blade mounting. McMaster-Carr caters to manufacturing and engineering firms, so the quality will be much higher than from a local big-box store. For the US, use #6 screws for fastening blades, and move to a larger #8 if needed for stripped holes.

I use four different screw types - #6 x 1/2" round head, #6 x 1/2" flat head, #6 x3/4" round head, and #6 x 3/4" flat head - all in stainless for mounting blades. Total cost should be around $30 delivered for boxes of 100 ea. - enough for you and 20 of your closest friends.

As a former engineer, I am somewhat disappointed in the work done by some skating pro-shops. Those screws should not have broken.

[doubletoe]

It is possible that you just got a pair of Gold Seals that were a little "off". It's also possible that you had trouble adjusting to the different rocker shape. The Gold Seal has a fuller/rounder rocker right behind the toepick, and that difference would be even more pronounced if you were (1) having your weight pushed forward by the higher heel on the Wifa boot, and (2) comparing them to Phantoms that had been flattened by multiple sharpenings.
If you want to switch to a Wilson 8' rocker blade that has a similar profile to the Phantom, you should get the Pattern 99. You should find that your weight is on the same part of the blade, they don't feel so round in the front, and the takeoff timing on your axel and double sal feel more like what you were used to with the Phantom. The Pattern 99 also has shorter stanchions so you will actually be lower to the ice.

[eliza1]

Thanks for your input, Doubletoe and Bill!! Yes, Bill, I was surprised the screws broke especially since I am quite light on my feet and weigh 120 lbs! Doubletoe, I don't think it was a "bad" pair of GS, I just think I never "took" to them -- and, yes, the Phantom being a couple of years old was a bit flatter too! I have now skated three times in my old Wifas with the old Phantoms on them and just feel so much better!! Double sals and axels I can find my toe and program run through is not wobbly everywhere -- just feel normal again!!! Just so strange that a person can't get used to a blade after so many months -- I thought everyone could get on with every kind of blade if they just gave them time!

[Query]

...round head, ...flat head...
Those screws should not have broken.

Sorry to drift off topic, but is there a logic to where round head vs flat head works better?

Sometimes people treat their skates in such a way blades and screws rust. And I met a gal who broke her blades by landing a split jump wrong...

[Isk8NYC]

Sorry to drift off topic, but is there a logic to where round head vs flat head works better? Round head screws are used for the adjustable slots in the sole plate. Once the alignment's perfected, flat head screws are inserted into some of the round holes in the sole plate as "permanent" screws to fix the blade in place.

[Bill_S]

Round head screws are used for the adjustable slots in the sole plate. Once the alignment's perfected, flat head screws are inserted into some of the round holes in the sole plate as "permanent" screws to fix the blade in place. Corrected per Bill_S

Flat head screws go into the permanent positions - and the plates have a mating countersink to accept them. The part of the screw that's tapered fits into the countersink taper. The screw's taper pulls very tightly into the mating taper of the mounting plate to eliminate sideways movement.

The round head screws go into the trial mounting slots, and provide a larger surface area under the screw head for clamping against the plate than a flat head screw could provide. Used alone though, they can't prevent a sideways shift of the blade with a good whack.

So, round heads in slots, tapers into tapers.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~schneidw/skating/images/bevel_boot.jpg

[Bill_S]

Sometimes people treat their skates in such a way blades and screws rust.



That's another argument for using stainless steel screws, instead of the commonly used galvanized (aka zinc plated) screws. The galvanic protection diminishes over time after repeated exposure to water.