conflict of interest?

[Skate@Delaware]

Is it a conflict of interest for elected members of a club board (usfs) to start up a skating club in another area, with the intention of moving members (i.e. their children & friends) to the new club? I'm not sure if the new club is usfs or not but this is in the works now......getting a feel for this and not sure if I should raise a stink or let it go...

[Debbie S]

If they're going to lead another USFSA club, they should resign from your club's board. If it's an ISI club they're starting, I'm not sure what the regs would be but the USFSA website has a clubs section with a number of docs about how to organize and manage a club, by-laws, and such. You might find more specific info there.

[RachelSk8er]

That seems sketchy. Even if it's USFS people trying to start an ISI club, it's still questionable. USFS and ISI are two different governing bodies that do compete for membership and, ultimately, people's money. Even if it's not wrong in terms of bylaws, ethically it sounds wrong. If they were helping people at another rink start a new club because they were experienced, were doing it to be helpful, had no intention of switching/taking members, that's one thing. That happens all the time. But board members of one club starting a club at another rink with the intent of going there and running it is strange. Obviously being unhappy with the current club and the way it is run can't be an excuse, they are the ones in charge!

I know of your situation happening in my area once, but it's only because one rink was closing at the end of a season, and there was a new rink that would be opening several miles away (different suburb) in time for the following season. We knew about this well enough in advance so board members started working on setting up the new club and recruiting while the old cub was still functioning out of the old rink. But essentially all that really happened was an existing club that had been around for years changed names and moved to a different rink. All the old test records and everything else transferred, too. (It's kind of funny, all my tests on the USFS web site that I passed under the old club now show the new club's name, even though some of them were passed a decade before the new club even existed).

[Skate@Delaware]

The whole thing is VERY strange; the skating club used to be at the other rink, it moved to my rink when it was opened. I'm not sure their reason (other than what I've heard through rumor/gossip which isn't worth repeating and really just hearsay).

My rink is ISI (used to be USFS), the club is USFS. The other rink is USFS. Haven't heard if the club will be ISI or USFS.

I'll mosey on over to the USFS site and read around. I will also start asking others and find out what I can. Thanks!

[PinkLaces]

That is very strange.

Around here, a USFS skating club can have skaters at several rinks. The rink where my DD started skating was seasonal and only had figure skating on Saturday mornings. They built a new rink last year and all of a sudden there has been lots of interest from local USFS clubs wanting to incorporate skaters from that rink into their club. It's an ISI rink and they're aren't interested in USFS.

My first thought was maybe the club was going to operate out of 2 rinks. Sounds like that isn't the case though. Maybe they (Board) are on the "outs" with the rink management or mad at them.

[LWalsh]

USFS has specific guidelines and will not approve a club within a certain geographic area of an existing USFS club. An ISI club would be another matter altogether.

lwalsh

[blue111moon]

One USFS club may operate in more than one rink, but must designate one site as their home rink.

If the board members are indeed trying to start a new club, then, yes, they must resign from the board of the old club before they can apply for membership on behalf of the new club.

But a group splitting off from one club to create a new one is pretty much how new clubs get formed. USFS frowns on two clubs forming in the same rink, but if they're in different rinks (even in the same city), it's generally allowed. The old club may get notified of the new club and asked if they have a reason to object to the formation of the new club, but the objection must be because of a violation of current club membership rules, not because the new club is made up of members from the old club.

[RachelSk8er]

USFS has specific guidelines and will not approve a club within a certain geographic area of an existing USFS club. An ISI club would be another matter altogether.

I've actually seen cases of more than 1 club out of a rink. I think it depends on the situation.

A lot of colleges that let the community use their rink will have separate figure skating clubs for the university and for everyone else (for example, Miami University FSC and Oxford Skating Club are both out of the same rink), or a college skating program using a community rink will similarly establish their own figure skating club separate from the one at the rink.

A few synchro teams over the years have also formed their own clubs and operated out of the same rink as another club. I think just from a membership/paperwork/logistical standpoint it was easier to do it that way.

And in areas where there are a lot of rinks, you will have clubs at rinks that are only a few miles apart. I can think of about 15 rinks off the top of my head within a 30 min drive (or less) from my house, and every single one has its own club. Here there are 2 rinks in one suburb probably not even a mile from each other (one public, one a private club) with separate figure skating clubs, and the next closest rink is a bike ride through the park away in a different suburb.

[Isk8NYC]

Some clubs also operate out of more than one rink, such as North Jersey FSC.

I know of one situation where a mega-club pulled out of a particular rink, but not the others.
The skating director formed a very small club for the abandoned rink. It's doing okay, but then again, it's the only game in town, lol.

It sounds like this group wants to build their own community and not work with your existing club. That is how new clubs get formed. That probably means they're going to offer club ice time since they want to govern on their own. It's not all bad - Clubs where everyone's on the same page usually do well because there are fewer masters to serve. They sometimes become egotistical and short-sighted, however.

It's ironic that they're going back to the rink that lost your club in the first place.

[skaternum]

And never underestimate the power of politics when approval for a new club is requested. I've seen some crazy stuff going on in that regard. In one instance, a club was started by a coach who'd done time in jail, financially mismanaged a rink and got sued for it by investors, was suspected of misspending some competition funds, etc. etc. It is believed that the coach also tried to financially damage the existing club prior to starting the new club. The other clubs in the area all sent letters of protest to USFSA, but because Coach is very well-connected within USFSA and buddies with the person making the decision to recommend or not, the coach's new club was quickly approved. Revolting, but there's no recourse. :frus:

[Skate@Delaware]

It sounds like this group wants to build their own community and not work with your existing club. That is how new clubs get formed. That probably means they're going to offer club ice time since they want to govern on their own. It's not all bad - Clubs where everyone's on the same page usually do well because there are fewer masters to serve. They sometimes become egotistical and short-sighted, however.

It's ironic that they're going back to the rink that lost your club in the first place.
It's funny you say it like that-these board members ARE OUR board members (and if you remember my post a while back, these are THOSE moms).

Our club was founded in that rink about 25 years ago but later moved to my rink when it was constructed (the club had been inactive for about 10 years prior to the move). I don't think it will be MY club that is moving back but a new club starting up; whether it will be USFS or ISI I cannot say at this point. Although I would think it would be ISI, given the choice.

My friend heard a comment (overheard) from one of our board members...."we can have our own ice time with our own rules and only have people on the ice that we want to have on it" and we were like, ok. Sounds fairly childish if you ask me.

[Debbie S]

Our club was founded in that rink about 25 years ago but later moved to my rink when it was constructed (the club had been inactive for about 10 years prior to the move). These rinks are in 2 different states, are they not? Or am I confused/mistaken? I thought your club was originally in MD (TCCC) and then moved to where you are, or is this a different club? Is geography playing a role in this - are these people closer to MD?

They do sound childish - I guess they're not planning on having any additional members other than themselves? :?? :roll:

[Skate@Delaware]

These rinks are in 2 different states, are they not? Or am I confused/mistaken? I thought your club was originally in MD (TCCC) and then moved to where you are, or is this a different club? Is geography playing a role in this - are these people closer to MD?

They do sound childish - I guess they're not planning on having any additional members other than themselves? :?? :roll:
You are correct, there are two different states involved, although I'm not sure about the geography.

And yes, they sound as though they are trying to be totally exclusive. But, if they are chartered under ISI or USFS, they cannot prevent others from joining, just because they don't like you. They can make your life miserable the rest of the time though (and encourage their children to behave horribly on the ice). I skate at my rink again on Friday, so I will ask around and see what some of the other mom's have heard.

[Query]

If a coach or their student advocates other coachs' students move to a rink or club where the other coaches don't teach - perhaps it could be argued before the PSA, ISI or USFS that is "soliciting" the other coachs' students. Or a coach moving their students to another rink might violate their contract with the first rink.

Are there people in the PSA, ISI, or USFS you could call up and talk to on an informal basis, without making a formal complaint, for advice? Try the contact numbers on their websites - e.g. http://usfsa.org/About.asp?id=423

But I hate the idea a coach or club or rink "owns" anyone, and playing such games could get people who think like me very mad at you.

Maybe it is easiest to let what happens happen, and trust that a good coach like yourself will keep her students, and that a well run rink and club (like yours?) will stay open. Perhaps you could suggest to those who wish to move that they can belong to and skate with both clubs and both rinks, and keep their current coaches, if they wish. Depending on internal politics, that might also give them more test dates, and avoid burning bridges. As an example, the Washington, DC area has a large club that all the USFS skaters join as their main club, and lots of local rink clubs many people join too. A lot of skaters and coaches skate and teach at multiple rinks and clubs.

Not only could you post such politely worded comments at your rink, but I bet your rink and your coaches have the addresses of a lot of students and coaches you could send such low key comments to, without being in the least offensive. Being open and nice to customers goes a long ways towards keeping good business relationships.

There was one USFS club near DC that abruptly decided skaters had to make them your main club to skate their sessions - all of a sudden their sessions got pretty empty. I think they eventually changed their policy, but it left a lot of ill will, and I'm not sure they ever fully recovered the loss of membership. I think exclusivity usually hurts more than it helps.

But that is just the way I think.

[Skate@Delaware]

I think exclusivity usually hurts more than it helps.

But that is just the way I think.
You are not the only one that thinks that way. Being an "exclusive" club not only is petty, it can have unwanted legal ramifications. Since the club they are forming is utilizing a County-run facility, I don't think they will be as free with their membership as they want to be.