Advice on Becoming a Brand New Pair Team?!

[Justine_R]

So after much deliberation and thought, an old skating friend of mine were inspired by a skating pair on a youtube video and we have decided we both want to try it. We have been skating on the same singles session for about 6 years and are at the same level skill wise.

I dont know much about pair skating so i was wondering if you could tell me a bit about what to expect? we dont have a coach yet.. but we both have previous singles coaches

Both of us are around the pre-novice/novice level (canada) but we need to get our jumps back

He is about 6'1 and 188 lbs and I'm 5'5 and around 130.. is that too heavy?


Thankyou

[FSWer]

Why not try this...pairsonice.net

[jp1andOnly]

Can he pick you up off the ice...I'm not talking full overhead because beginning pairs skaters dont do that...with little trouble. If he can, then no worries. He might want to develop upper body strength now however. Please do find a coach. If you are in a major training centre there will be coaches around. If not, ask a coach at your club and start looking around. Do not try dangerous things by yourself. Edited to add, you can always practice fun things together like side by side jumps and side by side spins and footwork. Leave the fall on pairs elements to learn with a pairs coach...

So after much deliberation and thought, an old skating friend of mine were inspired by a skating pair on a youtube video and we have decided we both want to try it. We have been skating on the same singles session for about 6 years and are at the same level skill wise.

I dont know much about pair skating so i was wondering if you could tell me a bit about what to expect? we dont have a coach yet.. but we both have previous singles coaches

Both of us are around the pre-novice/novice level (canada) but we need to get our jumps back

He is about 6'1 and 188 lbs and I'm 5'5 and around 130.. is that too heavy?


Thankyou

[Skittl1321]

Even if there is not a pairs coach around, you can work with a singles coach for awhile. A singles coach in our area has paired up all his kids (they don't do any lifts) and worked with them on stroking elements, side by side jumps and spins, footwork sequences, and spiral elements. If the kids want to "make it" they'll have to move to a pairs coach (which our rink has a great one) but for now, the singles coach does fine.

Just getting the stroking and SBS timing down will give you something to work on while looking for a coach who can help you with lifts and throws (something you probably won't do for awhile)

[phoenix]

Leave the fall on pairs elements to learn with a pairs coach...

Oy--unfortunate typo?!? Yikes! I think jp1andonly meant "full-on" :lol::lol:

[jp1andOnly]

LOL...opps..I certainly did

Oy--unfortunate typo?!? Yikes! I think jp1andonly meant "full-on" :lol::lol:

[Mrs Redboots]

For Bronze-level pairs you don't need any lifts, only a throw jump, side-by-side jumps and both pairs and solo spins. And something like a pivot-spiral (about the only pairs move we can actually do! Actually we can do a throw 3-jump, but that doesn't count under IJS and I get confused when we try a throw salchow! And our spin is good, but I, for one, can't really spin solo.)

It's all about shadowing each other, so you need to practice skating side-by-side, in and out of hold, staying together and making sure all your body parts match. Endless laps in different holds and just side-by-side. Very boring, but it's the basic drills that make all the difference.

[Skittl1321]

For Bronze-level pairs you don't need any lifts

Is your system the same as Canada?

(I ask because in the US the lowest test levels do have lifts- but armpit lifts, NOT overhead)

[Mrs Redboots]

Is your system the same as Canada?

(I ask because in the US the lowest test levels do have lifts- but armpit lifts, NOT overhead)

I don't know - I'm going by the pairs requirements for the Mountain Cup last year, when we half-seriously considered entering:

A well-balanced adult bronze pair program should contain:
A. Lifts are optional, but no more than two different lifts may be performed. One may be a waist loop lift. Overhead lifts are not permitted.
B. One throw single jump (optional). No throw Axel or double jumps are permitted.
C. One solo single jump. No Axels or double jumps are permitted.
D. One jump combination or sequence of jumps (with a maximum of three jumps included), limited to half and single rotational jumps only. No Axel or double jumps are permitted.
E. One pair spin. Change of foot or position is not permitted. Minimum of three (3) revolutions.
F. One solo spin. Change of foot or position is not permitted. Minimum of three (3) revolutions.
G. One pivot spiral (optional). Death spiral is not permitted.
H. One step sequence (i.e. circular, straight line, serpentine) utilizing at least half of the ice surface.

[Justine_R]

Thanks so much for the advice everyone

I am on the Canadian system and I was wondering if there are any levels for "star pair skaters" or is it simply just competitive tests( juvenile, prenov..etc)

Thanks

and also.. what are the requirements for a juvenile program. we are both 19

[pairman2]

Take a look at adultpairskating com to see a wide variety of existing pair teams, including teams based in Canada. Under athlete profiles, you'll also see some contact info if you'd like to reach specific teams individually.

[Justine_R]

thanks pairsman! i looked at that but they are all alot older than me. We are only 19.. does that classify us as adults?

[Skittl1321]

thanks pairsman! i looked at that but they are all alot older than me. We are only 19.. does that classify us as adults?

Not usually, most countries you have to be either 21 or 25. Some places will have "young adult" competitions for older teens at lower levels

[slusher]

You are a bit big for overhead lifts, but it depends on how strong the guy is and how quick you can get into position. The Moscovitches managed because she practically leapt onto his hand. But for now, you could compete at Starskate level.

There is Starskate Open Pair: Here are the element requirements from Skate Canada:

Open Pair
Each partner must have passed at least the preliminary free skate test. There are no
other restrictions.
One free program of 2:00 or 2:30 minutes in length (to be determined by the applicable
Section and applied at all events in that Section in the same competitive season).

All lifts, solo spins, pair spins, spiral figures or death spirals and step sequences
shall be called no higher than Level 1 regardless of content.

(a) maximum of two different lifts, each lift must be from group 1. Lifts must not
include a change of position
(b) maximum of one throw jump
(c) maximum of one solo jump
(d) maximum of one jump combination or sequence
(e) maximum of one pair spin (may be in combination)
(f) maximum of one solo spin (may be in combination)
(g) maximum of one spiral figure or death spiral
(h) maximum of one step sequence (straight line, circular or serpentine)


A group 1 lift is an armpit lift.

[sk8rdad59]

Slusher is correct you likely would start in the StarSkate open event. Since you both 19 you would need to enter at the Pre-Novice competitive level to skate competitively.

You definitely want to find a coach who has experience with pairs. Learning the pairs specific elements any other way can be hazardous. Also when learning the lifts ensuring that the male has already developed good turning technique on ice before trying with a partner. One technique I have seen used is to lift an item like a gym bag or briefcase overhead and practice turning. Again this should be done with the supervision of a coach.

[fsk8r]

To help with the timing on stroking and SBS footwork a dance coach would be able to do this, as this is exactly the same as couples dance.

[sk8tmum]

Yes, you would want to do Open Pairs. Pre-Novice pairs would need a competitive test. The only problem I could see you having is finding competition! There are so few guy skaters > so few pairs skaters > so few at any level, that it can be hard to find anyone to compete against. It's lonely out there in the wilds of Canadian StarSkate pairs :cry: and depending on what section you are in ... except, of course, you could end up on going to Provincials simply by default, as, with the top 3 going through, the odds are you'll go as I don't know of Sections that HAVE more than 3 Open Pairs skaters!

Group 1 - Armpit Lifts
The lifts with the armpit hand hold position are the easiest type of existing lifts. The male places one hand under one arm of the female in the armpit. The female places one hand on the male's shoulder. The male grips the female's other hand with his free hand, to assume the hold. The arm of the male that is in the armpit position of the female is to be fully extended. The following lifts belong to this group: Lutz lift, Flip lift, Axel lift, One arm toe lift.


(by the way ... random question: do you both jump/spin in the same direction? it makes it easier)

[RachelSk8er]

As a beginning team, you should spend a lot of your time working on stroking an unison. Some of the most enjoyable pairs routines I've seen at adult competitions have not been the most difficult program with the trickiest lifts, or from the highest level of skaters. They've been from teams that had excellent unison and you couldn't always tell if one skater was better than the other. Thigks like doing step sequences side by side are probably going to be tricky because there is such a height difference between the two of you and it will take adjustment in stride/pushing/speed on both your parts.

[FSWer]

Thanks so much for the advice everyone

I am on the Canadian system and I was wondering if there are any levels for "star pair skaters" or is it simply just competitive tests( juvenile, prenov..etc)

Thanks

and also.. what are the requirements for a juvenile program. we are both 19

Hi again. I am not familar with Canada. But if somebody here is willing to post a link to the Canadian Pairs Rules, I think it might help Justine a lot.

[Justine_R]

Yes, you would want to do Open Pairs. Pre-Novice pairs would need a competitive test. The only problem I could see you having is finding competition! There are so few guy skaters > so few pairs skaters > so few at any level, that it can be hard to find anyone to compete against. It's lonely out there in the wilds of Canadian StarSkate pairs :cry: and depending on what section you are in ... except, of course, you could end up on going to Provincials simply by default, as, with the top 3 going through, the odds are you'll go as I don't know of Sections that HAVE more than 3 Open Pairs skaters!

Group 1 - Armpit Lifts
The lifts with the armpit hand hold position are the easiest type of existing lifts. The male places one hand under one arm of the female in the armpit. The female places one hand on the male's shoulder. The male grips the female's other hand with his free hand, to assume the hold. The arm of the male that is in the armpit position of the female is to be fully extended. The following lifts belong to this group: Lutz lift, Flip lift, Axel lift, One arm toe lift.


(by the way ... random question: do you both jump/spin in the same direction? it makes it easier)


I have never heard of starskate open pairs, and I can't find much about it on the internet but it looks fun.
I skate at the Kitchener Waterloo Skating Club in Waterloo Canada, its a pretty competitve club and we have lots of high leveled skaters.. I dont think we would be on the same session as the freeskate pairs?

How would I go about getting a coach for this who would take it seriously? I really want to get started

[jp1andOnly]

Yalk to your current coach. Talk to the pairs coaches at your club

I have never heard of starskate open pairs, and I can't find much about it on the internet but it looks fun.
I skate at the Kitchener Waterloo Skating Club in Waterloo Canada, its a pretty competitve club and we have lots of high leveled skaters.. I dont think we would be on the same session as the freeskate pairs?

How would I go about getting a coach for this who would take it seriously? I really want to get started

[sk8tmum]

KWSC is producing some of the best pairs teams around right now; check out the WOS sectionals results. There are quite a few excellent pairs coaches at that club- you're in a great place to start looking. If you're looking for "stuff" on open pairs, go to the WOS website - they've got their StarSkate challenge announcement up, and there should be reference in that to open pairs.

Besides, if you passed your pre-novice or novice test, you must have been a reasonably good singles skater anyways, and that will only help you on the way.

[sk8rdad59]

I have never heard of starskate open pairs, and I can't find much about it on the internet but it looks fun.
I skate at the Kitchener Waterloo Skating Club in Waterloo Canada, its a pretty competitve club and we have lots of high leveled skaters.. I dont think we would be on the same session as the freeskate pairs?

How would I go about getting a coach for this who would take it seriously? I really want to get started


You are at one of the top pairs training centers in the country right now. Talk to Chris Wirtz, he runs the pairs program as KWSC, I'm sure he would be happy to provide you with the required advice and coaching recommendations.

You may very well end up on the same ice as the other pairs teams. Pairs often have their own ice as a measure of safety for both the pairs and individual skaters.

[FSWer]

I have never heard of starskate open pairs, and I can't find much about it on the internet but it looks fun.
I skate at the Kitchener Waterloo Skating Club in Waterloo Canada, its a pretty competitve club and we have lots of high leveled skaters.. I dont think we would be on the same session as the freeskate pairs?

How would I go about getting a coach for this who would take it seriously? I really want to get started


Say,what exactly is OPEN Pairs?

[Skittl1321]

How would I go about getting a coach for this who would take it seriously? I really want to get started

I've found the best way to find a coach who will take you seriously for anything is to ask them, tell them what your goals are and then if they agree to take you on, work hard to show them that you are serious.

[slusher]

Say,what exactly is OPEN Pairs?

Open pairs means that each partner has to have at least the first level freeskate test, but one partner could have a much higher freeskate test than the other.

There is a whole category of similar pairs in varsity skating, and there are several coaches involved with varsity that also teach at the Kitchener club that have experience with boy/girl pairs. Ask your own coach who they are.

edited: To answer that question, "similar" pairs means that it can be girl-girl pairs, as 99% of varsity skating is female. They'll do death spirals though, CRAZY !

[Justine_R]

You are at one of the top pairs training centers in the country right now. Talk to Chris Wirtz, he runs the pairs program as KWSC, I'm sure he would be happy to provide you with the required advice and coaching recommendations.

You may very well end up on the same ice as the other pairs teams. Pairs often have their own ice as a measure of safety for both the pairs and individual skaters.


Thankyou for the info everyone :) I know that KWSC is a very good club, im so blessed to live just accross the street!

Talking to Chris Wirtz is a bit intimidating, the pairs session he is on is with Moore-Towers/Moscovitch, Gaskell/Jones, Bobak/Penasse etc.. I've watched a few sessions and all the girls seem so small and they are all amazing skaters.

Do you think he'd want to coach a non- competitive level team?

[Isk8NYC]

Do you think he'd want to coach a non- competitive level team?
Try a different tactic - ask him if he could give you some guidance on starting out and ask him to RECOMMEND a coach for a new, non-competitive team. He might volunteer himself (for pay, of course) or suggest someone else. Many of the top coaches have other coaches that they work with regularly in a team-coaching manner. It's a much less awkward way to find out if he's interested.

The disadvantage of having a coach with high-level students is that they are often away during the competitive season, in order to accompany their teams/skaters.

[sk8rdad59]

Thankyou for the info everyone :) I know that KWSC is a very good club, im so blessed to live just accross the street!

Talking to Chris Wirtz is a bit intimidating, the pairs session he is on is with Moore-Towers/Moscovitch, Gaskell/Jones, Bobak/Penasse etc.. I've watched a few sessions and all the girls seem so small and they are all amazing skaters.

Do you think he'd want to coach a non- competitive level team?

I think Chris uses a team teaching approach like many of the top training centers in Canada do. He would likely have one of the other coaches assigned to you a your main coach. If your nervous about approaching him, a you really shouldn't be, you could try approaching Christie, his wife, who also coaches there.

Also approach him as a team, it may help with the nerves and will be an indication that you have both already committed to being a team.