Is it too late?

[dreamer7]

Hi, I am not sure if this is the right board for this question, but I was just wondering... I am a 15 year old girl, and have been doing ballet for 10 years. Do you think it will be too difficult for me to begin figure skating at this age? To be honest, I have never truly skated before...I am thinking about taking figure skating classes sometime next year. I think it is a beautiful sport and I really want to get into it. I am just too worried that 15 is too late to start. I am aware that it will take some time for me to get used to the ice, and to begin learning some tricks and spins out on the ice as well. I also would like to know, how hard is it when you first begin on ice?

THANK YOU!

[Isk8NYC]

NO! Not too late at all, especially with a dance background.

You'll pick up skating pretty easily. Try going to the rink and just skating on an open session before you take lessons. I'll bet you get the hang of basic skating pretty quickly.

[dreamer7]

Okay, thank you very much! It is great to hear that, now I am even more determined.

[Clarice]

Yes, do it! I didn't start until I was 37, and have gotten to the point where I can do at least basic jumps and spins. It's probably too late to acquire Olympic calibre skills, but there are lots and lots of things to do in this sport, and pretty decent adult competitions once you turn 21 if you're in the US. You might consider giving ice dance a try, too.

[Query]

I've mentioned elsewhere on this board how impressed I was when I saw a retired ballerina from the National Ballet of Canada practicing triple axels (which usually requires an elite level skater, especially for women), after skating less than a year.

I'm sure she was not completely typical, since quite a few professional ballerinas don't do triple jumps, and that Ballet company has a pretty competitive entry. But there must be a lot of crossover in skills and training. Certainly, both use balance, flexibility, timing, flow and strength, proper muscle balance, and require a higher degree of body part awareness than most ordinary life activities. Both seem to expect that women will wear clothing that is somewhat revealing of imperfection.

She mentioned some differences in technique. Here is what she mentioned: Most skating jumps are done with weight shifts during glides, while most ballet jumps are almost vertical, and where horizontal motion is required in ballet, it often has to be generated during the takeoff, and killed on landing. Finishing a spinal rotation before the jump is part of many ballet jumps, but most skating jumps must takeoff before the spinal rotation is complete, while the spine is untwisted. A ballet dancer is often on full point, whereas skating boots make that impossible. On the other hand, skating boots provide a lot more support - support which is often good, but you sometimes have to use more muscle to create motion against the stiffness of the boot.

In addition, some of the aesthetic standards in skating, especially ice dance, are derived from ballroom dance rather than ballet. (And by the way, most female ice dance and pairs skaters fail to find adequate partners.)

Both require extremely tightly and carefully fit footware if one is to avoid foot sores and injuries. I think skating boots and blades are more expensive than ballet slippers. They may last longer, but if you are 15, you may still be growing, and the costs may be significant.

I've never done ballet, but it is obvious a major difference does exist between available training in ballet and skating - I'm told most ballet training is aimed at dancing in a group, and relatively inexpensive group lessons are available up to very high levels. Group lessons are available in skating, but the expectation is that serious students will graduate to private lessons, and they cost substantially more than private lessons in most performance dance. That is the expectation even if you are intending to spend most of your time doing precision group skating (synchro, ice theater) - and even group skating involves a fair amount of expensive travel and ice time. (Many hockey skaters don't get individual coaches.)

But if you are willing to deal with the changes, and can afford the costs, you might be a very good skater, based on the skaters and coaches I've seen who started out in ballet.

The cost thing goes two ways. If my information isn't too out of date, in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, a performance land-dance teacher who doesn't own her own studio might be paid about $15/hour for group lessons, whereas a skating coach gets about $45/hour for group, $60-72/hour for private. (I'm told that in both cases, it is quite typical to spend more time driving and waiting than teaching, but at some rinks, that is not be the case.) A lot of skaters teach part-time to pay for costs. There are a lot of bureaucratic hoops to go through to be certified and insured to teach figure skating, though a few rinks have volunteer training programs, and if you are good enough, some coaches will take you under their wings. So nonetheless, a few ballet teachers become skating coaches to make more money. As near as I can tell, a fairly large fraction of reasonably good skaters who try are able to make a decent living as skating coaches, which is not true of ballet dancers.

As for someone else's comments that you might not get into the Olympics: Only an incredibly small fraction get there. One would hope you can enjoy skating without having to win everything. If you are a good ballerina, I'd bet you can shine at shows done at the local rink. If you need to win medals at regionals or above, it is obvious most skaters can't make it.

[Query]

You haven't mentioned how good you are at ballet, or how high your expectations are.

I've mentioned elsewhere on this board how impressed I was when I saw a retired ballerina from the National Ballet of Canada practicing triple axels (which usually requires an elite level skater, especially for women), after skating less than a year.

I'm sure she was not completely typical, since quite a few professional ballerinas don't do triple jumps, and that Ballet company has a pretty competitive entry. But there must be a lot of crossover in skills and training. Certainly, both use balance, flexibility, timing, flow and strength, proper muscle balance, and require a higher degree of body part awareness than most ordinary life activities. Both seem to expect that women will wear clothing that is somewhat revealing of imperfection.

She mentioned some differences in technique. Here is what she mentioned: Most skating jumps are done with weight shifts during glides, while most ballet jumps are almost vertical, and where horizontal motion is required in ballet, it often has to be generated during the takeoff, and killed on landing. Finishing a spinal rotation before the jump is part of many ballet jumps, but most skating jumps must takeoff before the spinal rotation is complete, while the spine is untwisted. A ballet dancer is often on full point, whereas skating boots make that impossible. On the other hand, skating boots provide a lot more support - support which is often good, but you sometimes have to use more muscle to create motion against the stiffness of the boot.

In addition, some of the aesthetic standards in skating, especially ice dance, are derived from ballroom dance rather than ballet. (And by the way, most female ice dance and pairs skaters fail to find adequate partners.)

Both require extremely tightly and carefully fit footware if one is to avoid foot sores and injuries. Skating boots and blades are more expensive than ballet slippers. Once you get past low levels, $1000/pair is roughly typical for figure skates (in the U.S.). You are probably still growing, and might well need a couple pairs/year or more.

I've never done ballet, but it is obvious a major difference does exist between the costs of available training in ballet and skating - I'm told most ballet training is aimed at dancing in a group, and relatively inexpensive group lessons are available up to very high levels. Group lessons are available in skating, but the expectation is that serious students will graduate to private lessons, and they cost substantially more than private lessons in most performance dance. That is the expectation even if you are intending to spend most of your time doing precision group skating (synchro, ice theater) - and even group skating involves a fair amount of expensive travel and ice time. (Many hockey skaters don't get individual coaches. But this is a figure skating forum.) A lot of very serious skaters home school or go to school over the Internet (which costs $) instead of going to public school just so they can get less crowded ice time.

There are a fair number of people who don't have particularly high expectations who do have fun in group lesson programs, up to moderately freestyle skating levels. The lessons are probably no more expensive than what you are paying now for ballet, but the equipment is, and you will need to spend time and money at a rink to practice to be any good. Your parent(s) or guardian(s) have to be able to deal with the extra money and driving.

But if you are willing to deal with the changes, and can afford the costs, you might be a very good skater, based on the skaters and coaches I've seen who started out in ballet.

The cost thing goes two ways. If my information isn't too out of date, in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, a performance land-dance teacher who doesn't own her own studio might be paid about $15/hour for group lessons, whereas a skating coach gets about $45/hour for group, $60-76/hour for private. (I'm told that in both cases, it is quite typical to spend more time driving and waiting than teaching, but at some rinks, that is not be the case.) A lot of skaters teach part-time to pay for costs. There are a lot of bureaucratic hoops to go through to be certified and insured to teach figure skating, though a few rinks have volunteer training programs, and if you are good enough, some coaches will take you under their wings. So nonetheless, a few ballet teachers become skating coaches to make more money. As near as I can tell, a fairly large fraction of reasonably good skaters who try are able to make a decent living as skating coaches, which is not true of ballet dancers, or of most athletic activities.

As for someone else's comments that you might not get into the Olympics: Only an incredibly small fraction get there. One would hope you can enjoy skating without having to win everything. If you are a good ballerina, I'd bet you can shine at shows done at the local rink. If you need to win medals at regionals or above, it is obvious most skaters can't make it. Most nominally professional land-dancers don't make a living at dance either, but work odd jobs to take up the slack.

Neither ballet nor skating are especially healthy activities, in terms of the number of injuries. Good technique can help, but many dancers and skaters have severe joint problems by the time they are adults. (A common medical textbook says ballet is second only to [American] football in the number of injuries. I bet gymnastics and skating aren't far behind.)

BTW, maybe you would have more fun in a more social form of land dance - whatever is popular in your area - assuming you don't expect to make a living at it or win major prizes. You have a lot more training than most kids who do that, and could really shine. Or in cheer leading, I think the schools pay the cost. Figure skating is not the best way for a gal to meet boys, so I'm told.

[doubletoe]

I didn't start until I was 27 and I think I had all of the single revolution jumps within a year or so (the axel, which is 1.5 revolutions, took awhile longer). I only took ballet for a year when I was growing up, but it has definitely helped in body positions, which tend to be based on ballet. You will probably have wonderful spirals and posture!

[falen]

my friend is a high school guidance counsellor who has a couple of late starters to figure skating. As far as Olympics, maybe too late. But apparently you can test and go pretty high up. Which is what these girls did and now they coach, and for a kid in high school "that is the best gig ever!" Great pay (here they get $50/hour) off the books, after school and weekend slots, fun. Goodness I was a financial analyst and I was not making $50/hour!

[sk8joyful]

how high your expectations are.

I saw a retired ballerina from the National Ballet of Canada practicing triple axels (which usually requires an elite level skater, especially for women), after skating less than a year.

Who? was that, I wonder.

[Mrs Redboots]

Never too late to start ice-skating. Okay, so you might never make the Olympics, but very few people do that! And you are certainly young enough not only to have a great deal of fun out of the sport (we who started in our 30s and 40s do that, too!) but also to rise to a relatively high level.

Your ballet skills can only help you with skating - ballet and gymnastics and skating all seem to feed one another - and you may well find that for awhile you appear better than you actually are since your presentation will be massively better than those of someone without your background. But your feet will soon catch up.

Enjoy!

[dreamer7]

Thank you guys! you really made me feel better! :) this was a lot of help and encouragment!! :P

[RachelSk8er]

You'll probably be off to college in a few years, and I strongly suggest getting involved in something like skating now. There are so many great opportunities to skate in college and as an adult, no matter what level you are at. If you wind up at a college that has a figure skating club and participates in the collegiate conference, they offer all levels of freestyle and solo dance (pre-prelim through senior free and prelim-gold solo dance). They're a lot of fun. One of my former college competitors and I became reacquainted last year when we were competing against each other as adult skaters! Having a hobby like skating also makes the transition to college easier (especially if you go away for school) becauase it automatically gives you a group of friends and a shared hobby outside of the people you will meet in classes and in your dorm.

And once you are 21, you can compete at adult nationals (may seem like a long time from now, but I always encourage teenage skaters to think about competing when they are an adult). Some competitions offer young adult categories for all levels and you only need to be 18.

[blackmanskating]

It is never too late. You have a dance background so once you get the basics of skating you will be ahead of the game artistically. I started skating seriously a few years ago. Get out there and have some fun!!!!




BlackManSkating

[Rusty Blades]

Too late at 15? God I hope not!

I started at 57, that's right, 57! I decided to go the competitive route (adult competitive that is) and did my first competition at age 58 at (Canadian) Adult Nationals - nothing like starting at the top LOL! The following year, I got a Bronze in Freeskate that I will treasure forever! Now, after 4 years I have 'retired' from competitive skating (for financial reasons and due to time constraints) and am going into Figures and Skills for awhile. Maybe when I retire in a few years I will return to competitive for awhile.

Being thoroughly HOOKED on skating now I also became a Data Specialist and volunteer at competitions - a couple of things I can do when/if I can't skate any more. It is a great sport and can easily become part of your life!

Jump in - the water's fine! 8-)

[londonicechamp]

Hi Rusty Blades

Wow, skating at 57????? Really admired your determination and courage.:bow: Do you do jumps (single) and spins (such as one foot spins)?

I mean I did see a man over 60s in my LTS class when I was training in London. He was (is) mainly doing dance moves, not so much freestyle, as he is afraid of jumping and also anything higher than a two foot spin.

londonicechamp

[rsk8d]

Stephanie Cooke started skating at age 12, made it to 5th place in Sr. Ladies at New Englands at 23, 24 (?), then won Champ Masters at Adult Nationals twice. It drives me nuts when the skaters at my rink think that if you're not 12 by juvenile it's a disaster. Never too late!!

[londonicechamp]

Hi rsk8d

Well, I totally agree with you. :lol:

It is never too late to learn skating. I like skating, as in fact when I am skating, I just imagine that everybody else is my audience, and skate my best. Sometimes on my bad days, when I have enough, I will just say to myself that it is time for me to stop skating for that day, rather than people seeing my bad skating.

It also depends on what a person's expectation(s) are on his/her own skating. I tend to push myself harder, as if I do not push myself, then there will never be enough progress.

The fact that another student of my coach asked me if I am doing the upcoming Tuesday (29 Dec) ISI skating test, and my 9 year old friend's dad asking me the same question must mean that my hard work is paying off.

The good thing about ice skating is that you can do it alone, and also do not have to worry about your progress too much unless you are doing tests or competitions.

londonicechamp

[Rusty Blades]

Do you do jumps (single) and spins (such as one foot spins)?

Thanks LIC! Yes, I do basic jumps (Waltz and Single Toe) - and upright one foot spins. I almost have a sit spin but the challenge is getting back up from a sit spin :giveup: LOL! Spins are definitely my strong point. Nothing comes easy at 60!

[Mrs Redboots]

I mean I did see a man over 60s in my LTS class when I was training in London. He was (is) mainly doing dance moves, not so much freestyle, as he is afraid of jumping and also anything higher than a two foot spin.

londonicechamp

There is a man at my rink (where I think you used to skate) who is well into his 80s and still skates every week, although he no longer lifts his wife/long-standing pairs partner since his back went on him about 5 years ago. But he still skates and is always good for a helpful tip or two!

And many of the regular skaters there are into their 60s now! This is so not a sport for the young....

[twokidsskatemom]

Stephanie Cooke started skating at age 12, made it to 5th place in Sr. Ladies at New Englands at 23, 24 (?), then won Champ Masters at Adult Nationals twice. It drives me nuts when the skaters at my rink think that if you're not 12 by juvenile it's a disaster. Never too late!!

Ot but that is because parents/coaches or skaters think that open juv is some terrible death sentence!Open juv cant qual for jr nats so people get all upset.If they think about the small number of kids that end up going to jr nats, maybe they would get the fact its ok to be in open juv.