2011 Adult Nationals: Where? [Archive]

RachelSk8er

11-25-2009, 01:07 PM

I'll rumor-monger and say that Pittsburgh has shown some interest in bidding.

OOOOh that would be awesome, it's not even 1.5 hrs away from me. Although quite frankly, I wouldn't mind somewere warm (STAR OF TEXAS, SDFSC, LA OR ORLANDO-AREA CLUBS DO YOU HEAR ME, HINT HINT). I've been to 3 synchro nats in San Diego, 1 in Tampa, and a PSA synchro conference in El Segundo, and it's always nice to lay on the beach when you're not at the rink...

I want my club here in Cleveland to host it, but I'd have to make a huge push and put in a crapload of work and I just don't have time to take that on until after I finish school and pass the bar exam. My rink would be perfect tough. 2 surfaces, rink has a bar right inside, 2 hotels share a parking lot with the rink (a holiday in and a newly remodeled cheaper hotel, I think it's a Red Roof Inn), a nice mall and every chain and quick-service restaurant and big box store you can imagine right down the street. We'd just have to shuttle people to another rink for practices (there are 2 different ones about 15 min away, one managed by the same company who owns my rink). We're 10 min from the airport, which is a Continental hub. We did adult mids a few years ago (want to say '06, before I was back in the area), we were the official practice rink for US Nationals last year, and next month we're hosting JNs for the 2nd time in 3 years.

coskater64

11-25-2009, 01:30 PM

So how many of y'all would die if we held it in CO at altitude? It's only a mile, hello double run throughs!!

Skate@Delaware

11-25-2009, 02:47 PM

So how many of y'all would die if we held it in CO at altitude? It's only a mile, hello double run throughs!!

Ha ha! Me-I'm at sea level and would suffocate from no oxygen!!!!!

LWalsh

11-25-2009, 09:03 PM

So how many of y'all would die if we held it in CO at altitude? It's only a mile, hello double run throughs!!

I would be all for CO. If it's earlier enough that my husband can ski it would be all the more easier to get there. Honestly I have never felt an altitiude problem there. It's really not that bad.

lwalsh

doubletoe

11-25-2009, 11:59 PM

So how many of y'all would die if we held it in CO at altitude? It's only a mile, hello double run throughs!!

Nooooooooo-!8O I will die. . .

Terri C

11-26-2009, 06:44 AM

Last year, while waiting for my departing flight in Grand Rapids after AN, I got to talking with one of the Phoenix based skaters. She asked me if Phoenix hosted AN, would I attend? The answer was a definite yes, especially since it's been ages since AN was held out west.
As much as I'd like to say that I'll be there in 2011, given my life issues of late, I can't really say right now.

RachelSk8er

11-30-2009, 08:08 AM

So how many of y'all would die if we held it in CO at altitude? It's only a mile, hello double run throughs!!

I'd be fine with that, I've competed in CO for synchro and the only time I really noticed any difference was on official practice ice (where we did back-to-back run thrus of our programs). If you train all season with it in mind, you should be fine. I have asthma that occasionally flares up from cold/dry air, but I went on Singulair a few months before as a preventative measure and had no problems. (I had more issues at synchro mids in '08 in Nashville when we had to skate in a rodeo barn--we didn't know this until we got there. I couldn't be in there for more than 10 min without my allergies flipping out, I couldn't breathe).

If you're sick it does suck, though. The Haydenettes had a bunch of skaters come down with the flu while at nationals, and after going out and skating a perfect long program, they were all collapsing in the kiss-and-cry while waiting for their socres and some of them had to have oxygen. I felt so bad for them. They still ended up winning by fractions of a point that year, though.

vesperholly

12-01-2009, 03:55 PM

I wouldn't mind Pittsburgh, that's an easy drive for me. Phoenix would also be awesome, or anywhere in California.

My club's board has expressed a small amount of interest in hosting ANs - we have a four-sheet rink and have hosted Regionals many times and JNs once. But AFAIK they aren't bidding anytime soon. Adult skating is fairly scattered around here, unfortunately.

jazzpants

02-22-2010, 03:09 PM

Bumpity bump.... NOW is it too early to ask the question of where AN could be? :mrgreen: :lol:

Stormy

02-22-2010, 06:10 PM

Bumpity bump.... NOW is it too early to ask the question of where AN could be? :mrgreen: :lol:

Probably. :) Ask after ANs. Have bid packages even been sent out?

NoVa Sk8r

02-22-2010, 06:11 PM

My bet is on Hackensack, NJ. ;)

flying~camel

02-22-2010, 06:31 PM

I haven't heard anything but I don't think I'm going to ANs next year, anyway. I'm going try out one of the summer skating camps instead. :)

techskater

02-22-2010, 07:30 PM

I've heard a few places, but don't know if bids are out yet...8-)

rsk8d

02-22-2010, 09:07 PM

I will go anywhere for Nationals! Please have Easterns in New England, and I will dust off my competitive skates, dig my unseen/half choreographed champ masters program out of the bottom of my skate bag, and be there!

Stormy

02-23-2010, 07:42 AM

I'll second that, I really want Easterns in New England again too! I heard this past weekend that Pittsburgh was bidding on it, though.

RachelSk8er

02-23-2010, 07:53 AM

I repeat my annual request: somewhere warm PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bid on ANs!!!!!

herniated

02-23-2010, 09:00 AM

My bet is on Hackensack, NJ. ;)

I'd LOVE that!!!!

jazzpants

02-23-2010, 04:04 PM

My bet is on Hackensack, NJ. ;)

To which herniated replied...
I'd LOVE that!!!!

My reply:
White Manna burgers!!!! :mrgreen: :yum: :bow:

Hell, even the Indian place is decent... just as long as you make sure they hear the words specifically "I want to take this home! I do NOT want the food thrown out!!!" :roll: (Well, if it's the lunch buffet, then you don't have much of a choice.)

Seriously... meh... they've bid a few times and never got it (mainly b/c of cost to rent the rink out) so I think it's not gonna happen. But in the wise words of Jeremy Abbott "Stranger things can happen. Pigs can fly." :P

NoVa Sk8r

02-23-2010, 04:44 PM

Seriously... meh... they've bid a few times and never got it (mainly b/c of cost to rent the rink out) so I think it's not gonna happen. But in the wise words of Jeremy Abbott "Stranger things can happen. Pigs can fly." :PFrom what I understand, the main reason was not cost but lack of hosting any major event. They've now done this in succession (Moran, followed by North Atlantic regional), so their bid might now be more acceptable since they have "proved themselves." Time will tell.
As for cost, this year's adult easterns--in NC--occurred on ice that cost ~$350/hr.

manleywoman

02-24-2010, 12:12 PM

As for cost, this year's adult easterns--in NC--occurred on ice that cost ~$350/hr.

Wow. That's high.

flying~camel

02-24-2010, 12:42 PM

From what I understand, the main reason was not cost but lack of hosting any major event.

We (Grand Rapids) hadn't hosted any major events when we bid on AN 09 (SN 06 doesn't count - it was actually hosted by the Detroit Metro Council).

NoVa Sk8r

02-24-2010, 06:00 PM

Wow. That's high.The ref told me it was $5/minute plus extra for the ice cut! And it is a county-operated facility. He couldn't imagine doing the comp with IJS costs involved.

RachelSk8er

02-24-2010, 06:09 PM

We (Grand Rapids) hadn't hosted any major events when we bid on AN 09 (SN 06 doesn't count - it was actually hosted by the Detroit Metro Council).

But do they also look at who exactly is on the LOC when there are bids put in? I think knowledge of adult skating and how adult nationals is run would trump experience in running big competitions (provided you also have the right facility and volunteer base to pull everything off, which you guys did).

Stormy

02-25-2010, 09:00 AM

The ref told me it was $5/minute plus extra for the ice cut! And it is a county-operated facility. He couldn't imagine doing the comp with IJS costs involved.

Seems like you have to get so many stars to align just right for Sectionals to have IJS. Get a club that knows what they're doing, wants to have Sectionals AND has low enough ice costs to be able to afford to have IJS.

Isk8NYC

02-25-2010, 09:23 AM

easterns--in NC--occurred on ice that cost ~$350/hr.When I first joined the Club, they had two freestyles on Saturday mornings, but the cost was too much. The club only occasionally does rentals for competition/testing events. The county relationship is wierd because they hired a management company to run the place, day-to-day. The head guy is a partner in several other rinks in the area, so there's a "formula approach" at work. I'm really pleased with the facility and the way it's managed, it's just different from most municipal rinks where the management is rec dept staff. Apparently, the hockey community pays the rental fees because there's hockey pretty much every night during the week.

I remember a group of us renting Ice World (Totowa, NJ) from midnight-1am to prepare for big competitions.
That would never happen here given the rental rates.

manleywoman

02-25-2010, 10:32 AM

But do they also look at who exactly is on the LOC when there are bids put in? I think knowledge of adult skating and how adult nationals is run would trump experience in running big competitions (provided you also have the right facility and volunteer base to pull everything off, which you guys did).

They look at a lot of things . . . quality of the bid, experience, and many times location.

Mel On Ice

02-25-2010, 11:10 AM

right now with the state of the wallet, somewhere affordable first then somewhere warm second.

sk8er1964

02-25-2010, 01:01 PM

I think Grand Rapids should host it again. ;)

rlichtefeld

02-25-2010, 01:25 PM

We pay $350/hr for the ice at the Peach Classic. So, that's not un-heard of.

As to IJS we do a paper-based IJS for the Gold and above events.

The tech panel reviews the jumps, spins and spirals for downgrades and levels, and then use radios (walkie-talkies with ear pieces) to "call" their list to all the judges at one time. The judges write down their GOEs and PCS scores.

Then, the sheets are taken to the accountant and the next skater begins. The scores are not displayed in real time, but they get out not a lot later than a normal event. You just need additional asst. accountants to help with all the data entry.

However, not having to rent a system, setup up the system, guard the system at night and then tear down the system, has some savings. Is it as good as the full computer system - no. But, it does work.

We've used this system for the past 4 years at the Peach Open, and the last year at the Peach Classic.

If anyone is interested, I can give the names of the past few referees, or I can discuss it with you.

I would love to host AN here in Atlanta, but we don't have the facilities for it. The seating required is way too small in any of the facilities. And, the most number of sheets we have at any one facility is 2, and the rinks are about an hour apart (with good traffic).

Rob

jazzpants

02-25-2010, 03:38 PM

right now with the state of the wallet, somewhere affordable first then somewhere warm second.I hear 'ya, girlfriend! I hear 'ya!!! :roll:

I think Grand Rapids should host it again. ;)
I wouldn't mind coming back to Grand Rapids again. (Mmmm... Sundance Cinnamon Rolls!!! :yum: ) Then again, it also depends on whether or not I have my stuff together enough that I am ready to compete again... and right now...ummmm.... not even CLOSE! Maybe someday this century I'll pass Silver Moves!!! :giveup:

Also, so do I assume that 2012 will likely be at Lake Plastic...er, Placid again? :D

flying~camel

02-25-2010, 06:10 PM

I think Grand Rapids should host it again. ;)

A lot of people in our club would like to but those of us who were on the LOC need a few years to recoup ;)

flo

02-25-2010, 06:41 PM

My favorite place will always be Lake Placid. Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor did great jobs! I'd love to have it back at University of Delaware/Wilmington, or Vegas!!

Stormy

02-26-2010, 01:48 PM

Lake Placid was nice....if not a bit boring. Grand Rapids did a great job, Chicago was good and Dallas I didn't stay long enough to really get a feel for it and it was my first one.

Rob, I know that unfortunately ATL couldn't have ANs, but would you consider having Sectionals? Clearly you guys know what you're doing and I believe the IceForum has enough seating for that? I've been at The Cooler too and that seemed big enough.

rlichtefeld

02-26-2010, 03:41 PM

Stormy,

I'm attending my first sectionals (Mids) in a couple weeks. Since I've never been to one before, I'll have a better idea after that.

It's just all the rinks here are privately owned, and hockey is king.

Rob

Mel On Ice

03-02-2010, 09:55 PM

A lot of people in our club would like to but those of us who were on the LOC need a few years to recoup ;)

Let's wait until the spawn of the LOC is old enough to volunteer as runners or sweepers.

Terri C

04-08-2010, 01:28 PM

Well with AN 2010 next week, any word on where 2011 will be?

flying~camel

04-08-2010, 01:36 PM

I heard the bids for AN 2011 aren't due until 6/1 and that, so far, no one has bid. :(

Stormy

04-08-2010, 08:14 PM

I heard the bids for AN 2011 aren't due until 6/1 and that, so far, no one has bid. :(

No one at all? :( I know my club has been thinking about it, but it wouldn't be for 2011, maybe 2012 if we can get all the stars to align right. And for those that know what club I'm with, NO, it wouldn't be at the club's rink. I wouldn't want ANs at my rink myself. :)

I hate to ask this question, but if no one bids....what happens?

techskater

04-08-2010, 08:15 PM

That tidbit has been mentioned at our club's last board meeting concerning lack of bids. ;)

RachelSk8er

04-09-2010, 08:42 AM

No one at all? :( I know my club has been thinking about it, but it wouldn't be for 2011, maybe 2012 if we can get all the stars to align right. And for those that know what club I'm with, NO, it wouldn't be at the club's rink. I wouldn't want ANs at my rink myself. :)

I hate to ask this question, but if no one bids....what happens?

I think they go to the clubs that they know can handle it and beg if there are no bids or the ones they get aren't quite good enough. I'm pretty sure that's how we ended up with JNs twice in 3 yrs at my rink, and how synchro nationals was in San Diego twice in 3 yrs (back when they were more concerned with not breaking the section rotation).

sk8er1964

04-09-2010, 09:17 AM

That's why Ann Arbor had AN's twice in a row.

RachelSk8er

04-09-2010, 09:37 AM

That's why Ann Arbor had AN's twice in a row.

I'd be strongly in favor of ANs in A2 again. That would be sweet.

sk8lady

04-16-2010, 07:18 AM

Any rumors going around at AN as to where it will be next year?

Stormy

04-16-2010, 08:23 AM

Any rumors going around at AN as to where it will be next year?

I've heard Hackensack has interest in bidding. Like Jen said, bids aren't due till 6/1 so we might not know for a while.

herniated

04-16-2010, 12:23 PM

That would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo great for ME! Selfish yes, but basically in my backyard. Still an hour or so but very, very close for me. Probably no hotel needed!! And my coach could come. heaven. let us pray...:lol:

looplover

04-16-2010, 01:24 PM

I've heard Hackensack has interest in bidding. Like Jen said, bids aren't due till 6/1 so we might not know for a while.

Oh man. If it's in Hackensack I really need to start skating again. :lol:

Petlover

04-16-2010, 02:14 PM

Oh man. If it's in Hackensack I really need to start skating again. :lol:

You should start skating again, you are a great skater!

Terri C

04-18-2010, 08:14 PM

Something I've looked at...
Easter next year is April 24. Given that AN is held usually two weeks after, and that would most likely conflict with GC, will AN be before Easter next year?

daisies

04-18-2010, 08:37 PM

AN usually being two weeks after Easter is a coincidence. It will always be in April, and it will never conflict with any other major USFS event, especially since a lot of the same people have to be at both!

RachelSk8er

04-19-2010, 08:36 AM

NoVa mentioned hosting next year's ANs in his back yard. I'm all for that.

Mel On Ice

04-20-2010, 06:29 PM

a coach from AZ talked about finishing up her bid when I was getting ready to skate

sk8er1964

04-20-2010, 06:44 PM

Damn. I can't afford a ticket to AZ as well as another trip to Jamaica (we're going again because we have free all-inclusive hotel due to a big mess in up this last February trip). Can we do Pittsburgh next year then AZ the year after? I'd love to go there, but not next year. Please?

Terri C

04-20-2010, 07:11 PM

a coach from AZ talked about finishing up her bid when I was getting ready to skate

Where in AZ???

Mel On Ice

04-20-2010, 07:26 PM

Where in AZ???

I don't know, I was getting ready to skate.

SkaterBird

04-20-2010, 07:50 PM

How about Seattle? Or Oregon? Any clubs in that area interested in hosting? Any adequate facilities there? Just wondering, because I love the area and I have a number of relatives there.

flo

04-20-2010, 08:48 PM

I don't know, I was getting ready to skate.

Come on Mel! Multitask! ;)

Mel On Ice

04-20-2010, 09:59 PM

Come on Mel! Multitask! ;)

oh I was multitasking but cannot get into details

TreSk8sAZ

04-20-2010, 10:15 PM

Ooh AZ ... I'm thinking Phoenix or a suburb. Coyotes FSC of Arizona is a pretty big club, they've had a few Regionals IIRC?

We've had Regionals and Sectionals quite a few times, as well as a Jr. Grand Prix a few years ago.

I'm not sure whether it's Coyotes of Skating Club of Phoenix (a much smaller club) that's bidding (if they are at all). I'll have to do some research.

jazzpants

04-21-2010, 12:28 AM

Hmmmm... actually if it's Arizona, it may either work out well or work out crappy! My company's US headquarters are in Phoenix, Arizona. It just so happens that on my next project my group and I will be working closely with the Arizona engineering teams. There's a chance that I MIGHT be able to fanagle the trip on the company's expense (well, more just the airfare) to the headquarters!!! ;)

Isk8NYC

04-21-2010, 03:28 PM

USFSA really needs to set limits on what the LOC is allowed to charge for anything that they have a monopoly on.

Who actually rents the facility for the different National Championships? (Standard, Adult, Synchro) Is it the LOC or the USFSA?

Just thinking about the monetary outlay for the rental, it might make more sense for the USFSA to pay the deposit/rental fees so that Clubs don't feel as pinched. It would also give the USFSA a little muscle to ensure that the event comes off properly.

techskater

04-21-2010, 08:21 PM

For AN's, it's the LOC who's responsible for the ice time costs, hotel for judges, etc. This is why you can't put a stop to whatever they are charging. They are supposed to do a pro forma P&L in advance and costs are included in the bid package. Someone on the LOC for 2010 said to a few of us that US Figure Skating did not give them the usual grant for ANs.

pairman2

04-22-2010, 06:50 AM

A few random questions about the business model for hosting an AN

I've never been directly involved in organizing a competition, but when it comes to AN, I've often wondered if it is being approached optimally by a potential LOC.

For basic ice time for example; In April, most rinks have their lights turned out 3/4 of the day as hockey has ended, so when a full week event comes to town seeking full capacity ice (20+ users per hour) at 16 hours a day, doesn't an LOC have a bit of leverage in getting contract ice rates as opposed to retail cost? In fact, I would think that any rink would have a self interest in becoming a 'business partner' with the LOC in hosting the event and would work to make the ice rate attractive....or else go back to sitting in the dark. Similarly, hotel accommodations are bought in discount blocks

Considering that all practice ice is paid for separate, is it fair to say that entrance fees only have to cover a maximum 5-10 minutes of active ice time per entrant per event (and this adding in an allowance for down time between performances) If an AN entrant is paying $120 to get in, can someone give an approximate breakdown on where that money goes?

RachelSk8er

04-22-2010, 08:03 AM

For basic ice time for example; In April, most rinks have their lights turned out 3/4 of the day as hockey has ended, so when a full week event comes to town seeking full capacity ice (20+ users per hour) at 16 hours a day, doesn't an LOC have a bit of leverage in getting contract ice rates as opposed to retail cost? In fact, I would think that any rink would have a self interest in becoming a 'business partner' with the LOC in hosting the event and would work to make the ice rate attractive....or else go back to sitting in the dark. Similarly, hotel accommodations are bought in discount blocks

Not in my area. I swear, hockey never ends.

I think rink involvement with hosting an event really varies from place to place depending on whether a rink is privately owned/operated or run by a city.

My rink has recently hosted 2 JNs and a lot of local competitions, and we were the practice rink for US Nationals in 09. Particularly with the larger competitions, the actual management company that runs our rink was involved in running the thing to some extent. 09 Nationals, they were charging admission to watch practices, their staff were the ones collecting money, and the club made little/no money off of that, it all went to the rink (which is fine, the rink itslef offers tons of figure skating ice time aside from the 8 or so hours each week the club has). When we've had large production-type ice shows in the past, it was the rink that sponsored them (and hired the coaches who produced the show and provided the ice time and all that stuff), not the figure skating club. The club still gets involved in various ways and makes some money off of it, too, but it's more of a partnership. For any event, there are certain things the club always seems to handle (volunteers, hospitality rooms) and certain things the rink staff handles (advertising/PR, collecting admission, much of the setup/teardown, and obviously making sure the rink is spotless). For smaller competitions we host, the club pretty much does it all aside from the obvious scrubbing down the rink beforehand and cutting the ice (no joke, I think they clean my rink too much, it usually reeks of cleaning supplies, which I guess is better than hockey smell, but whatever they use to obsessive-compulsively clean the glass does bother some skaters' allergies).

I think in many cases the city-run facilities are stretched thin (i.e. can hardly pay their two zamboni guys, front office person and skate guard, who all hardly make above minimum wage, and you're lucky if the bathrooms have toilet paper/paper towels) and even though the city can potentially make money off of joining forces, they don't want to be bothered and the club will have more control. I worked at a rink in high school that, while I was working there, went from city-owned/operated to being run by a private management company, and once that change happened, the actual rink itself became much more involved in cooprating with the figure skating club/hockey club for events we hosted, whether fig skating competitions/shows or hockey tournaments. Same with another area rink--the company that runs my rink took it over from the city and they've gotten a lot more involved in what goes on there compared to the city's actual participation.

Debbie S

04-22-2010, 09:14 AM

My club's rink is owned and managed by the city and it's just about impossible to book ice time outside of club time for test sessions and other events. But it wasn't much easier when a mgmt co was running the place a few years ago, b/c they didn't give a hoot about anything. What we really need is a mgmt co that sees the potential profit to be made by keeping a rink up and cooperating with the various organizations that use it.

I think the difficulty finding clubs to host AN is about logistics and money, not the reputation of adult skaters (borrowing from the other thread). The timing of AN (April) means that pretty much any club that hosts a summer comp is not going to want to bid, unless they have a very large and involved membership. For most clubs, running a nat'l event while they are planning their own comp at the same time is too much. That leaves clubs that don't host a comp, and they may not meet the facility requirements (or even want to plan a big comp). And then there are the costs the club has to put out to bid and run the event - yes, AN can be profitable, but clubs have to be able to front a lot of expenses.

AN is less prestigious than kid Nats - no nat'l TV broadcasts or print articles showcasing the city. AN doesn't attract hundreds of out-of-town spectators, plus a whole entourage (parents, siblings, multiple coaches) for each skater, that bring millions of dollars into the host city. Yes, AN does provide a financial boost, but it's going to be much smaller given that most out-of-towners are participants that spend their days (and mealtimes) at or near the rink. The LOC for AN is not going to attract the partnerships and sponsorships from local and civic groups like a kid Nats would. With less of a financial upside, it's no wonder that the clubs that have the know-how and volunteers to pull off a big event successfully would rather bid for Nats or even JN or SA.

pairman2

04-22-2010, 02:24 PM

Based on these observations, it would seem then that municipal rinks then should rarely if ever be considered for any major event like AN.

The main product a rink sells is ice time and only a tiny minority of all rinks end up hosting the big events. If overhead and energy costs were assumed to be roughly equal within any given region, then any large event in April should be a boon for the rink. Most rinks keep some hockey year round but its far diminished from it's high season and could be shuffled around for 5 days

vesperholly

04-22-2010, 03:13 PM

Based on these observations, it would seem then that municipal rinks then should rarely if ever be considered for any major event like AN.

My rink is municipally run and we've successfully hosted Regionals and Junior Nationals. Not all municipalities are the same ...

sk8er1964

04-22-2010, 03:30 PM

Most rinks keep some hockey year round but its far diminished from it's high season and could be shuffled around for 5 days

Around here, hockey runs from July to May. The main season ends in March, but there's always spring teams. Hockey rarely to never gets shuffled around - it pays the bills. We are a huge hockey area, though.

manleywoman

04-22-2010, 03:59 PM

I wonder if pushing ANs to later in April or first week of May would make it even cheaper.

Skittl1321

04-22-2010, 04:06 PM

Hockey rarely to never gets shuffled around - it pays the bills. We are a huge hockey area, though.

I don't think we are a huge hockey area at all- but that's how the rink makes money. Heck- they gave our synchro team FREE ice during an undesirable time just to get us to vacate our paid for, but barely, spot to a hockey team.

SkaterBird

04-22-2010, 04:21 PM

Around here, hockey runs from July to May. The main season ends in March, but there's always spring teams. Hockey rarely to never gets shuffled around - it pays the bills. We are a huge hockey area, though.

Same here - hockey is king. We have a lot of rinks in the area, but we also have a lot of hockey teams and they buy huge blocks of ice time before the season even starts. Pushing ANs to later in April or to the first wek of May might help in this area, because April-May tends to be the time when hockey is at low ebb, but during the spring and summer months some rinks take out their ice (or some of it, if there's more than one ice sheet) and convert the facility to indoor soccer or other dryland activity.

vesperholly

04-22-2010, 04:22 PM

I wonder if pushing ANs to later in April or first week of May would make it even cheaper.

Would that interfere with the ISU adult championship or Mountain Cup? First week of May is usually Governing Council.

RachelSk8er

04-22-2010, 05:48 PM

Would that interfere with the ISU adult championship or Mountain Cup? First week of May is usually Governing Council.

Rinks also start to close down for the season (or for a month or so) and/or cut back on ice significantly starting in early May. Not an issue in areas where skating is popular (here, the bigger ones stay open or and it's mostly some of the 2-surface facilities that go down to one in early May), but could pose a problem for people in areas with less rinks.

My rink is municipally run and we've successfully hosted Regionals and Junior Nationals. Not all municipalities are the same ...

No, they're definitely not. I've lived in a few cities and skated at a crapload of rinks, so I've seen city-owned/operated rinks that were very successful (one of the rinks I skate at that several adults skate out of is city-run and it's one of the best in the area. They actually are hosting a pretty big competition that starts today). But in general, the municipal rinks are the ones that seem to struggle when times get rough since they rely on tax revenue and are subject to budget cuts, and either close down completely or sell/lease to a private company. The rinks run by private companies seem to be doing the best (as well as the ones run by colleges, or in the case of one rink in my area, a private Catholic elementary/high school).

pairman2

04-27-2010, 05:45 PM

A few suggestions for how AN is awarded, for the sake of discussion and perhaps maybe something useful here will be taken up as positive change.

Currently, as I have observed it, the model for a locality acquiring AN, is that various clubs show an interest in hosting the event. Their primary motive is fund raising. The club representatives then go to their home rink(s) and try to secure a calendar commitment for those dates and [from the sound of it] are in the position of having to acquire the ice time at full retail rates from otherwise reluctant rink management. The club then rolls this and all of the other costs into a package and tries to pull the event off. Under this approach, the club is the bidder, the holder of all risk, and the rinks seem to be be in a dominant position to hold out for the best deal.

The history of clubs hosting competitions seems to be a tradition that goes way back in history. Maybe it would be a good idea to rethink this from an updated approach.

What if USFS was the primary host of AN every year, instead of a local club and rinks submitted fixed priced bids to USFS to hold the event in their facilities. The bids would be competitive based on a standardized set of specifications that are developed for the task and would represent the optimal number of hours and exclusive use that are needed for an AN event. Their bid would be limited to the use of facilities and any ancillary functions. It would include as many sheets of ice x hours needed for the primary venue and any other local rinks close enough to collaborate with the primary bidder. The number of operating Zamboni's would be considered as well. Practice ice would either be subject to an independent purchaser price ceiling or else bought wholesale under the base contract and re marketed.

This would be more or less an identical process to any municipal/ government bidding procedure and the winning bid would be based on compliance to the specifications but otherwise, the low bid, except where USFS seeks specific annual geographical considerations. The whole bid process would be publicly published on line including a summery of all bid results (just as in government bidding). This process flips around the order of financial motives from what currently seems to exist.

USFS would handle a specific set of administrative functions year after year, as they do now, except perhaps an expanded list of tasks to include scheduling. Ideally scheduling could be done more efficiently by software? Yes, No?

The level of interest of the local club would be a part of the rinks bid instead of the other way around. The local club would have a smaller but far more manageable roll handling all things related to hospitality. Certain concessions could be set aside for the local club to make money with, perhaps including a wide range of higher scale food concession choices on site at the competition arena. This allowance would be stipulated up front with the rinks in the original bid specification. (This would expand competitors choices beyond popcorn and other public-skate type goodies!)

Obviously this process breaks with the tradition of clubs sponsoring the whole event and traditions seem to be near and dear. I think AN would be an idea pilot project to try this approach and maybe other levels of competition may eventually follow suit.

techskater

04-27-2010, 06:39 PM

How do you handle the need for a lot of volunteer hours with USFS bidding?

pairman2

04-27-2010, 07:32 PM

re: volunteers

That would still be a component of the USFS bid request and the rinks' proposal wherein the rink's bid would include a section describing how the local club has agreed to commit [I]X[I] number of volunteers, as per original bid proposal request.

I think what happens now is that it is essentially a joint venture between club and rink and it would continue to be that in some respects. It's just that the financial incentives need to be reversed from the present structure. Also USFS should commit additional staff organizational functions rather then giving it out to well intentioned but less then experienced volunteers, given that AN is such a large complex event

sdfigureskater

04-29-2010, 12:38 PM

techskater

04-29-2010, 09:04 PM

If you want an ANs in your area (West Coast), work with your local club to bid. Oakland to date is the only West Coast ANs although a rumor around Bloomington was Phoenix was bidding.

RachelSk8er

04-30-2010, 09:08 AM

I'm really hoping that 2011 AN's will be on the west coast :D Have they ever been in or around San Diego or LA?? Bloomington, MN was really nice... Beautiful city and really nice people... And the Mall of America was tons of fun too :D I still can't believe the great rates for skaters at the Hilton! 105.00!!

San Diego doesn't have the facilities to host, at least that's what Lexi said. Which is a shame, they've hosted synchro nationals 3 times and the LOC always did a fantastic job. They used a wonderful hotel over in Hotel Circle where all the teams stayed, which would be perfect for the ANs atmosphere. Only issues were beyond the LOC's control--in both 98 and 04 there were major problems with ice melting in the SD Sports Arena, official practices for senior teams were canceld in 98 because they had to fix it, and 04 resulted in a splatfest during collegiate because it was down to the pavement in one spot.

Toyota Sports Center in El Segundo would be sweet (hotels next door, walking distance to food, not far from LAX, beach 5 mi away). But that's Frank Carroll's kingdom and I can't see him and the other coaches there giving up their elite skaters' ice for the better part of an entire week.

Debbie S

04-30-2010, 09:25 AM

Toyota Sports Center in El Segundo would be sweet (hotels next door, walking distance to food, not far from LAX, beach 5 mi away). But that's Frank Carroll's kingdom and I can't see him and the other coaches there giving up their elite skaters' ice for the better part of an entire week.Actually, Frank is leaving Toyota (he may in fact have already left) and will be moving to a new (about-to-be-built) rink further inland. But there are other elite coaches still there...although April is sort of their down time (end of season).

Purple Sparkly

05-19-2010, 07:10 PM

Bid Packages for 2011 Adult Sectionals and Adult Nationals are officially posted!!

See here! (http://www.usfsa.org/Events.asp?id=324)

Discuss!

Terri C

05-19-2010, 08:09 PM

The proposed date of April 5-9 go very well with me, as my birthday is 4/4, but hey if it's the second week, that's just as good too!!

doubletoe

05-19-2010, 08:12 PM

Apparently, the problem with rinks in Southern California is that the cost of ice is too expensive. :(

sk8lady

05-20-2010, 08:26 AM

Why does the Boston area never host AN? Sure would make my life easier.

Purple Sparkly

05-20-2010, 09:11 AM

Stormy

05-20-2010, 11:37 AM

sk8lady: Stormy is in the Boston area, so it looks like they are maybe kinda sorta perhaps considering thinking about bidding one day.

Yeah, my club has tossed the idea around but it defintiely wouldn't be for 2011. In the Boston area and even in all of MA I'd say, there's really only one rink that can handle ANs and for my club to have it in conjunction with that rink a lot of stars would have to align just right.

LilJen

05-20-2010, 01:34 PM

Apparently, the problem with rinks in Southern California is that the cost of ice is too expensive. :(

How much, out of curiosity? Our rink in Ft Wayne charges $279/hr.

daisies

05-20-2010, 02:47 PM

Why does the Boston area never host AN? Sure would make my life easier.
Not never. It was in Marlborough in 2001!

Stormy

05-21-2010, 12:44 PM

Not never. It was in Marlborough in 2001!

I worked at that rink at the time in the skating office, and that was the one that really got me interested in adult skating. I'd been doing some young adult events at the time and seeing ANs and how fun it was really made me want to do it when I turned 25, since that was way before the age changes.

Marlborough really is an ideal venue for ANs, they have 5 surfaces now and are going to build a 6th. It's a huge facility, open and airy upstairs with a ton of parking. There's a hotel right across the street from it now and other hotels nearby. I really hope it works out to have it there again someday.

flo

05-23-2010, 10:04 AM

They did a nice job.

manleywoman

05-23-2010, 10:29 PM

I have fond memories of Marlborough as well. They did a great job.

sk8er1964

05-24-2010, 06:21 AM

Nobody bid. ETA - or no bids were accepted if someone did.

The new bid packet has gone out.

SkaterBird

05-24-2010, 07:33 PM

No one bid on ANs for next year at all? How about Mids - any bid on Mids, or isn't the bid due yet?

techskater

05-24-2010, 08:06 PM

Nobody bid. ETA - or no bids were accepted if someone did.

The new bid packet has gone out.

Bids are due June 1, so clubs may be sending in the bid packages now.

sk8er1964

05-24-2010, 08:29 PM

Another email went out to clubs with a new due date. I think it was August. At least that is what I was told by someone who would know.

Purple Sparkly

05-25-2010, 08:24 AM

The first bid packets said they were due June 1. Now it says they are due July 23.

They also changed the preferred weekend for sectionals. Initially they preferred one weekend in February, about 3 weeks after registration ends. It sounds like there is enough trouble getting the lists of competitors from US Figure Skating when there are three months between cutoff and competition, with just three weeks the LOC might not know the competitors until the day of competition!

Now there is a range of preferred dates for sectionals between February and March.

daisies

05-25-2010, 12:52 PM

They also changed the preferred weekend for sectionals. Initially they preferred one weekend in February, about 3 weeks after registration ends....
Now there is a range of preferred dates for sectionals between February and March.
The "initial" version was a mistake, not a preference. :)

Purple Sparkly

05-25-2010, 03:23 PM

The "initial" version was a mistake, not a preference. :)

That explains the updated bid packets. :)

icerinque

05-26-2010, 10:42 AM

Hi All,

The bid packages are indeed now available for 2011 AN. To quell rumors and false info, there are clubs that have expressed interest and are talking to USFS. Not to worry, we WILL have a location by mid August. Bids are due July 23.

Also, for informational purposes, ice cost is a major factor in a club's willingness to bid. For example, Bloomington ice was $175/hr and Grand Rapids was $75/hr. California ice costs $300 and up, making it far less likely that a CA club will bid.

One comment that was made was whether or not USFS should control the event. The reason this event is largely LOC run is because 95% of the events are non qual. Only 8 events are governed by the rule book. Most other national events are all qualifying.

Please feel free to ask me questions any time if you want to know more. I encourage you all to read the bid package and become familiar with how the process works. Hope this helps!

~ Lexi