Bronze Free Test question

[Skittl1321]

I recall hearing somewhere that someone got dinged (maybe in a competition- where IJS codes were used?) on a sit spin for doing a combo instead of a sit. That is, when they came out of the sit spin, they did too many revolutions upright instead of exiting immediatly.

Does anyone know if on the bronze free test it will still count as a sit spin if I do 5 revolutions (more than the minimum 3) in a sit position and then pull up into a good scratch spin. Or do I need to exit the sit spin immediatly and do just a sit spin, and not a combo?

My coach hasn't taken anyone through freeskate tests, so she doesn't really know the ins and outs of what is expected.

[jp1andOnly]

AFAIK that is a sit spin plain and simple. If you changed feet into a backspin thats a combo. That being said, I wouldn't make the exit upright of the sit go on forever. Do a nice one but only a few revs.


I recall hearing somewhere that someone got dinged (maybe in a competition- where IJS codes were used?) on a sit spin for doing a combo instead of a sit. That is, when they came out of the sit spin, they did too many revolutions upright instead of exiting immediatly.

Does anyone know if on the bronze free test it will still count as a sit spin if I do 5 revolutions (more than the minimum 3) in a sit position and then pull up into a good scratch spin. Or do I need to exit the sit spin immediatly and do just a sit spin, and not a combo?

My coach hasn't taken anyone through freeskate tests, so she doesn't really know the ins and outs of what is expected.

[Skittl1321]

Yeah- I know a "combo" has to change position and feet. But I'm trying to figure out if it matters if I change position (but obviously not feet).

My coach said she would prefer a long fast scratch spin after the sit spin, because it looks rushed to do only 1 revolution after coming up.

[BlueSkate]

I can't help with your question about the test, but what you've heard would have been an IJS competition. I'm sure you're aware that the rules for spins within IJS are really strict, one of them is that you can't get CSp or SSp if you do more than 2 revolutions (possibly even just 1) in an upright after even if it's the same foot. If you do too many revs in an upright spin you'd get CoSp.

EDIT: I found this (www.usfsa.org/content/Rule%20Clarifications%2011.08.05.pdf) which confirms the IJS rule for combinations (point 13) but doesn't state how many revs you get.

[Skittl1321]

Yeah- that's probably what I had heard. And I know that while none of that actually applies to the level I'm skating at, judges seem to have IJS in mind, even if it doesn't apply (which I think makes 6.0 very interesting...)

So I'm wondering if any coach (or skater) has put a test out at this level, and what the judges responses were.

[flying~camel]

One of my coaches other skaters did a sit spin on her Silver FS test and pulled it up into a 3-rev upright spin and got some comments from the judges about it being a combo spin because of that. They didn't ding her for it but wanted her to know that it would, indeed, count as a combo spin if she did that in competition.

Since then, our coach has been very adamant about making sure we don't stay in an upright position too long after coming out of the position.

[sk8tmum]

My kid got called for a combo spin for 1 rev of a upright spin out of a flying camel. No change of foot. The technical specialist caught every kid who added any full rev out of a spin - and it's happened in other competitions to skaters other than mine.

[Ellyn]

My kid got called for a combo spin for 1 rev of a upright spin out of a flying camel. No change of foot. The technical specialist caught every kid who added any full rev out of a spin - and it's happened in other competitions to skaters other than mine.

They shouldn't call it a combination for 1 revolution upright -- only if there are 3 or more.

[doubletoe]

A sit-scratch is, by definition, a combination spin, regardless of whether you're being judged under IJS or 6.0. That is not the same as a sitspin, and that is not what is being asked for on the test. When they want to see a combination spin ("with a change of position, with/without change of foot"), they will ask for it. I think that is on the Silver test.

For any single position spin (like a sitspin), you must not do more than 3 revolutions in upright position at the end of the spin or it will be marked as a combination spin. To be safe, limit your upright position at the end to just 2 revolutions.

[Skittl1321]

Thanks all!
The rulebook defines combo as change foot and change position- but I know I had heard multiple people say something about this before.

My coach kind of thought I was crazy when I told her I wasn't pulling into a scratch spin on purpose, but I'll tell her that's it's a wise decision, and practice the two things as seperate elements!

[liz_on_ice]

glad this thread came up, I was seriosly planning all three spins as a combo for that test. Assuming I ever scrape up the nerve again now.:roll:

[techskater]

Thanks all!
The rulebook defines combo as change foot and change position- but I know I had heard multiple people say something about this before.

My coach kind of thought I was crazy when I told her I wasn't pulling into a scratch spin on purpose, but I'll tell her that's it's a wise decision, and practice the two things as seperate elements!

A combo spin is a change of position

A change combo spin is a change of foot AND a change of position

[Skittl1321]

A combo spin is a change of position

A change combo spin is a change of foot AND a change of position


The USFS rulebook seems to make it sound like it must have both.

The only place elements are clearly defined is in the synchro section, where it says Spin combination:
The spin combination must consist of one change of foot and at least two different changes of position (sit, camel, upright or any variation thereof) with not less than three revolutions on each foot. The minimum number of
revolutions required in each position is two without interruption. The change of foot and the change of position may be made either at the same time or separately. The change of foot may be executed in the form of a step over but not a jump.

However all the other places in the rulebook where it refers to a combination spin it references change foot and change position numbers.

[PinkLaces]

I just took the Bronze free skate this past Tuesday. My coach had me come up into an upright spin at the end...not more than about 2-3 revs though. Is there any way that your coach can contact a judge in your area.

[Skittl1321]

There is essentially no such thing as "a judge in my area". 90% of them come from out of state, and none of them in state are affiliated with the 2 local clubs.

[doubletoe]

The USFS rulebook seems to make it sound like it must have both.

The only place elements are clearly defined is in the synchro section, where it says

However all the other places in the rulebook where it refers to a combination spin it references change foot and change position numbers.

Since the advent of IJS, spin definitions have become much more specifically defined by the ISU, of which the USFSA is a member federation. These defiinitions apply not only to IJS competitions, but to all instances when different types of spins are executed. The good thing about that is that it is much clearer what the requirements are. There are two types of combination spins: (1) combination with change of position and no change of foot (code "CoSp" in IJS), and (2) combination with change of position and change of foot (code "CCoSp" in IJS).
Now, spins with a change of foot but no change of position (i.e., sit/change sit, camel/change camel, change-foot upright spin) are each called by the name of the position, plus "change foot". So you could do a CSSp (change foot sitspin), CUSp (change foot upright spin) or CCSp (change foot camel spin).
This is why, when a combination spin is called for, it is now understood that a change of position is being requested, not necessarily a change of foot. That means you just need to do at least two of the basic positions, or all three if you wish (upright, sit, camel). For example, in the well-balanced program requirements for Junior and Senior level skaters, a combination spin is required, and it can be either with or without a change of foot but it must contain a change of position. The same is required on the Adult Silver FS test. For the Adult Gold FS test, a CCoSp (combination spin with change of position and change of foot) is required.

As mentioned previously, if a spin ends in an upright position and only contains one other position, the rule is that you must hold the upright position for more than 3 revolutions so that it isn't mistaken for a single position spin with an upright position as the "windup" (spin exit).

This information can be found in the technical documents on www.USFSA.org. Types of spins are listed in the scale of values, here: http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/200809-SP-SOV.pdf