Jumps req'd for adult gold

[kayskate]

I have been wondering how other people feel about this. This is just my personal thought, I do not know if anyone has serious considered making any changes to the adult FS tests.

The axel is req'd for the adult gold test. It seems many adults can get the axel and pass this test. However, it seems a lot of us have trouble with the axel but have better luck with a double (2sal usually). This has been the case for me. IMO, I doubt I could ever pass gold b/c of the axel. My best has been cheated and my wipeout ratio was always high. I had to back off b/c of some pretty wicked falls that helped me put things into perspective.

Would it make sense to offer a choice on the USFSA adult gold test of an axel or a double jump?

Kay

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by kayskate
Would it make sense to offer a choice on the USFSA adult gold test of an axel or a double jump?

Kay I will never get either of those jumps, but I understand they are of equivalent difficulty. On the other hand, the axel proves you have mastered the forward take-off into the jump, which the double salchow doesn't. So there are arguments to be made in favour of a compulsory axel.....

[dooobedooo]

Look on the bright side, kayskate - doesn't this make you very competitive at silver level ?! (see "sandbagging" thread!!).

I know several people who have been able to get up to a double loop but not an axel. So I agree with Mrs Redboots - the axel is a special jump and is rightly part of the gold test.

I have also seen people master an axel with very little height, but simply a fast rotation and a very centred in-air position.

[LoopLoop]

The other thing is that the adult tests parallel the standard tests pretty closely...pre-bronze/pre-preliminary, bronze/preliminary, silver/pre-juvenile, and gold/juvenile (which requires an axel). After passing the adult gold test, you can go straight to intermediate, which DOES require a double jump (alone and in combination) as well as an axel.

[kar5162]

I'm going to agree with kay here...offering a choice between the axel and a double makes sense to me at Gold. In part because of what LoopLoop is saying and in part because of the Sandbagging thread. The adult tests do rather parallel the standard tests, however the competition structure does not. The adult levels do not allow doubles, unlike standard which allows them at Preliminary. That's reasonable considering the overall skating levels of adults. However, the adult competition structure does not allow doubles until you get an axel and there seem to be a fair number of adults who get a double or two first. They're stuck in Silver, but probably get accused of sandbagging frequently and would probably be quite successful in Gold.

[manleywoman]

One the one hand I think they should allow a double in exchange for an axel, but then on the other hand would those people who have trouble with axels ever work on one if they weren't required?

[flo]

"would those people who have trouble with axels ever work on one if they weren't required?"

Probably not if they didn't want to. I guess that's where I see the difference in kid and adult skating. I don't think adults need to know how to do everything in the world of skating. I would prefer to do what I do well, rather than more elements of lesser quality just to say I can do them. Unfortunately adults are limited by time and other resources. I'm much less likely to allocate these resources to something I don't particularly care for - required or not. If you have a double or two, I don't think it's a big loss not to have an axel.

[dcden]

I think the gold FS test is correct in requiring the Axel. The other 5 jumps are all required on the other adult FS tests: toe loop and Salchow in Bronze FS, flip and loop in Silver FS, Lutz (and Axel) in Gold FS. Thus a skater who has passes Gold FS will have demonstrated all of the 6 major jump entries (i.e. excluding walleys, 1-foot or inside axels, etc.). It would seem to be inconsistent to allow a skater to skip the Axel while having been required to do the other 5 jumps.

[kayskate]

Originally posted by manleywoman
One the one hand I think they should allow a double in exchange for an axel, but then on the other hand would those people who have trouble with axels ever work on one if they weren't required?

I am guilty of this and let me explain why. I was really starting to get hurt falling from axels. I had to question what I was doing to myself and why. Some of the falls were rather scary. Since then I have changed coaches and maybe a different perspective would be worthwhile, but right now my decision is to stay away from the axel. I have many other skills to work on. However, I have not had the same negative experience w/ the 2sal. I was landing them consistently, though they were never perfect. I agree w/ everyone who mentioned the forward take-off. It is a unique skill and has value. I just had so much trouble w/ it, as an adult I had to rethink my priorities.

Personally, I have not competed but I have taken a couple of tests. I became discouraged b/c I thought I would not get the axel and would never pass gold when I can do the other skills on the test. While I may never have a big floating 2sal, I could probably get it to the point that I could pass a test w/ it. (Assuming my nerves don't get the better of me!)

Just wanted to hear other people's opinions.

Thanks.
Kay

[Designdiva]

One the one hand I think they should allow a double in exchange for an axel, but then on the other hand would those people
who have trouble with axels ever work on one if they weren't required?

I know that I wouldn't. I hate backspins. I find them unnatural and would have avoided them at all costs if it weren't required on the Bronze test. And even now, I don't backspin very well and I really see no incentive in trying to get a great backscratch when backsits and back cross spins seem a lot more secure.

I agree that an axel is a very special jump and it denotes a certain level of expertise. A lot of skaters want to get axel for the caché that comes from having an AXEL. It's a money jump with a memorable name. When you tell a total stranger that you skate, chances are they will ask, "Can you do triple axel?"

So, I suppose I think that the gold test should keep axel as a required element. The required elements give each skater specific goals. And for some skaters, the do-or-die element will be the axel, for others the combo spin.


— The diplomatic Diva

[dcden]

Diva, what an astute response! Good point, the axel may be a do-or-die element for many gold testers, but this is not true for everyone. I was one of those who freaked out over the combo spin (for the entire period between AN 02 and my gold test on 6/1). But I have to say that that requirement forced me to work on something I probably would not have worked on otherwise (change foot spins).

So true about the axel having mystique that other skills don't have. There have been so many adult skaters in my area who have come up to me to tell me about their axel progress, or to ask me about mine, but these same skaters would say relatively little about flying camels or brackets or half loop/Salchows.

[Designdiva]

There have been so many adult skaters in my area who have come up to me to tell me about their axel progress...

I know, right! No one ever asks about my slide chassé move or turnout on my split jump. And I don't even think to mention it. It's always "How's that axel coming?"

I think that is because we invest so much time and energy, emotion (and money) in one jump. I'm much more likely to hang my head over a failed axel than a back-camel.

kayskate: I'm sure your new coach help you master the axel — if that is indeed your goal — perhaps on a harness or off-ice jumps. Keep working on a little a a time.

[kayskate]

Originally posted by Designdiva
kayskate: I'm sure your new coach help you master the axel — if that is indeed your goal — perhaps on a harness or off-ice jumps. Keep working on a little a a time.

I have tried the harness and off-ice work, but not w/ this new coach. Right now an axel is not my goal. I am more interested in improving the overall quality of my skating. My coach has actually said my ice dance will improve my posture and speed and could lead to improved jumps. All of my other singles are reasonably good, though. of course, they can always be better. That is part of skating. Whatever we do can always be improved even if we do a skill well.

Kay

[dani]

Hi everyone! I agree with the comments that the axel is unique and important. However if the next test up requires an axel and a double, then would be the harm of having an *or* for the gold test?

Of course, nobody has called me up and said "Dani, what do you think?" ;-)

Hugs!
Danielle