Help - Bronze FS vs Test confusion

[stacyf419]

Hi guys - please help - I've done searches of the forum and can't find exactly what I'm looking for.

I'm aiming to test adult Bronze freestyle in the next month or so. I'm confused about the difference between the test requirements and the bronze well-rounded program requirements. It's looking like I have to have 2 different programs - 1 for the bronze test and 1 for competition. My coach has choreographed a fairly difficult program for comps which satisfies the well-rounded program requirements but doesn't hit the requirements for the test! In looking at the rule book, I see the following regarding jumps:

Test (jumps):
1. At least three different single jumps of which one must be a Salchow and one must be a toe loop
2. One jump combination consisting of a waltz jump and a toe loop (no turn or change of foot between jumps)

Well-rounded program (jumps):
1. Max 4 jump elements
2. At least 1/max 3 combos or sequences (max 1 3-jump)
3. Only repeat jumps as a combo
4. Max 2 of any jump including combos

My questions:
-for a test, do you have to do the jumps as single jumps and not part of a combination?
-and in that case, can you then only do 1 combination jump, or is there no max in test?

Sorry for the long post, but not every coach has 100% knowledge of the adult testing track and I wanted to run it by the team here before I bring it up to her. Many thanks in advance.

[Skittl1321]

For the test, those 3 jumps need to be individual jumps, the combo is just the waltz-toe. You can do other elements in the test, but they won't be scored, so other combinations won't be scored, but if you salchow is only part of a combination a judge may decide it doesn't count.

[Clarice]

Do the jumps for the test exactly as called for. If it asks for a single jump, do it as a solo jump, not as part of a combination. You don't have to rechoreograph your program - just substitute the test jumps in for the competition ones. Basically, the judges have a list of required elements for your test, and will check them off as you do them. You can do extra elements in the test, but they won't count towards passing.

[stacyf419]

Okay - thank you so much for the responses.

I've laid out the elements in a spreadsheet, and will do the 3 singles and 1 combo as required in my test program, and 3 combos and 1 single in my competitive program.

Kind of stinks because I think muscle memory plays a big part in whether or not I have a clean run, but I don't think the 'test' version is competitive enough at the bronze level imo.

Thanks again!

[Skittl1321]

Could you put together a really basic test program to totally different music? That way you don't get the two confused? A test program doesn't have to be fancy.

[sk8tegirl06]

This is kind of a tangent, but I am having the same confusion with pre bronze levels. (I am switching over from preliminary moves and pre-preliminary free to adult levels for competition.)

The test form for pre bronze free lists 2 jumps (one half or one full revolution), 1 foot upright spin, 2 foot upright spin, crossovers, and lunge/spiral. My coach said that I can't do loops or sit spins in my competitive program at pre bronze level, can anybody help? :giveup:

My program so far has: waltz-toe loop combo, salchow, half flip, upright spin (it was a sit spin previously), lunge, and spiral. We are planning to add one more jump and one more spin. Can I do a loop and sit spin or not? Likely I think I would end up with a half lutz and another upright spin. We were trying some leg/arm variations to make it different from the first one.

[Skittl1321]

The test for pre-bronze is an encouragement test, it's not a program, just the elements in isolation.

Here is the current rulebook. Now that it's online it's easy to be aware of the rules. No buying a new one every year is necessary.
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Content/Rules%20of%20Sport.pdf

3806 The Adult Pre-Bronze Well-Balanced Free Skate Must Contain:
Jumps: The number of half and single-revolution jumps is not limited. These jumps may be repeated as individual jumps and in jump
combinations and sequences. No Lutz, Axel or double jumps are permitted.
Jumps Combinations: Optional. No More than three jump combinations or sequences of jumps (number of jumps to be included is
free) are allowed. No Lutz, Axel or double jumps are permitted.
Spins: A minimum of two and no more than three spins. No flying spins are permitted. Spins must have a minimum of three
revolutions.
Steps: Connecting steps throughout the program are required.

Based on this, a sit spin and a loop are okay.

[stacyf419]

Could you put together a really basic test program to totally different music? That way you don't get the two confused? A test program doesn't have to be fancy.

Hmm...that's a thought. What has everyone else done here?

[Debbie S]

Before I tested Bronze FS, I had been doing essentially a Bronze FS test program in Pre-Bronze comp - it was choreographed to be my test program - so I just did the same one. For those I know that were doing different/harder jumps and combos, they just replaced the jump and spin elements with the required ones. Who has time to choreograph and practice 2 different programs, lol? Just replace the elements in the way it makes the most sense - if you have a sal-toe combo, just do the sal; if you were doing a flip, replace with the toe loop, etc.

[TreSk8sAZ]

I always use my competition program and just switch out the jumps and spins. Because you don't have the test version of the program for that long it really is not that hard to change the jumps and spins back.

[dance2sk8]

This is kind of a tangent, but I am having the same confusion with pre bronze levels. (I am switching over from preliminary moves and pre-preliminary free to adult levels for competition.)

The test form for pre bronze free lists 2 jumps (one half or one full revolution), 1 foot upright spin, 2 foot upright spin, crossovers, and lunge/spiral. My coach said that I can't do loops or sit spins in my competitive program at pre bronze level, can anybody help? :giveup:

My program so far has: waltz-toe loop combo, salchow, half flip, upright spin (it was a sit spin previously), lunge, and spiral. We are planning to add one more jump and one more spin. Can I do a loop and sit spin or not? Likely I think I would end up with a half lutz and another upright spin. We were trying some leg/arm variations to make it different from the first one.

I did a loop jump for my Pre-Bronze test and the judging panel LOVED it! Its ok do do that if its one of your best jumps.

[RachelSk8er]

I always swap my jumps/spins from my competition program to my free program. Testing programs are going to be much easier than what you do in competition in most cases.

Just make sure you practice the test version enough, and ONLY practice the test version for a few weeks if you can in order to remember it. I recently watered down my silver competition program to take pre-juv free. It's a new program and I was also competing a week or so later, so I was running both versions in practice the week or two before. On my test, I almost really screwed up because I was supposed to do a camel-sit where I normally do a sit-change-sit in the competition version. I almost did the sit-change-sit and that would have been an automatic fail for a wrong/missing element. Luckily I caught it right on the wind-up and although the spin was BAD (camel was wobbly and therefore didn't get a good snap into the sit), what I was doing was recognizable so I just had to do it again on the re-skate. I also did my first lutz in combo and it was supposed to be solo on the test, but that was easy, I just left my 2nd lutz in the program (normally in combo also) solo and let the first one count for the jump combo needed on the test. (But again, if I'd done both in combo the way it is in my normal program, that would have been bad.)


Ideally if you can test right after when you put together a new program (before you even compete it and when you will have enough time to ramp it up for competition), that seems to be the most ideal situation. Then you're putting together a new program and the elements will be easier so you can get the layout and connecting steps/transitions down nicely. After you test, then you can swap jumps/spins for harder ones.

[doubletoe]

I also just "dumbed down" my competition program, swapping out a few jumps and spins to meet the test requirements. Just make sure you start practicing ONLY the test version of your program for at least 2-3 weeks before your test, because when under pressure, it's easy to forget and revert to old muscle memory. On my Gold FS test, the two elements I had to re-skate were not the axel and change foot combination spin, they were the two easiest ones: a solo loop and a plain sitspin! Those were the two elements I had just dumbed down from more difficult elements and I hadn't given myself enough time to get them into muscle memory so I sort of blanked out on the way into them. :roll:

[Ellyn]

I recently watered down my silver competition program to take pre-juv free. It's a new program and I was also competing a week or so later, so I was running both versions in practice the week or two before. On my test, I almost really screwed up because I was supposed to do a camel-sit where I normally do a sit-change-sit in the competition version. I almost did the sit-change-sit and that would have been an automatic fail for a wrong/missing element.

It wouldn't be an automatic failure to do the wrong spin.

If the rest of the program is good enough to pass, or if you only have one other mistake to correct in a reskate, then the judges could ask you to reskate the required spin that was missing in the program.

But it's better not to leave out a required element during the program, because if you have two other mistakes, or if the overall quality is borderline and judges use the missing element to tip the decision toward Retry, you might not get the opportunity to fix it with a reskate.

[phoenix]

It wouldn't be an automatic failure to do the wrong spin.

If the rest of the program is good enough to pass, or if you only have one other mistake to correct in a reskate, then the judges could ask you to reskate the required spin that was missing in the program.

But it's better not to leave out a required element during the program, because if you have two other mistakes, or if the overall quality is borderline and judges use the missing element to tip the decision toward Retry, you might not get the opportunity to fix it with a reskate.

? This is a good question--if you don't even attempt a required element in the program, would the judges ask to see it as a re-skate? I've assumed they have to at least see the attempt.

Any judges here who want to weigh in?

[ibreakhearts66]

? This is a good question--if you don't even attempt a required element in the program, would the judges ask to see it as a re-skate? I've assumed they have to at least see the attempt.

Any judges here who want to weigh in?

At testing at my rink, there have been a couple of times where the judges have asked to see an element because it wasn't in the program (or they didn't see it in the case of a girl doing a split jump, mohawk, single flip for her Juv test).

I've also always used my competitive programs for the general framework of my test programs.

[icedancer2]

If an element is missing we will ask the skater for a re-skate of the missing element - usually with some strong comments about building the program around the required elements or some-such.

[RachelSk8er]

? This is a good question--if you don't even attempt a required element in the program, would the judges ask to see it as a re-skate? I've assumed they have to at least see the attempt.

Any judges here who want to weigh in?

I think it really depends on the panel and whether they want to fail you for omitting an element or just let you do it on the reskate. Some of the judges around here, especially those on this particular panel, tend to be VERY strict. You omit an element, you don't get to do it on the reskate, because "reskate" is your chance to do something that was not good enough or correct in the original program. I know that if I did the wrong spin, chances are this panel would have given me a nice RETRY.

One of the skaters in my group on the same test session had "extra" elements in her test (she had either a double toe or double sal, don't quire remember, and an axel). She passed because she did everything that was required, but she and her coach got a nice lecture about sticking only to what is required for the test. (Which is funny, since I thought "extra" jumps/spins were ok, but I think in her case the program also went over the time limit.)

I tested my prelim free when I was a kid and failed because I did an axel-toe instead of a waltz-toe. That was the ONLY thing "wrong" with my program. (My coach obviously did a bad job of explaining to me the difference between a test/competition program). If I can do an axel-toe, I can obviously do a waltz-toe, however, I was failed for omitting a required element.

Just another sad reminder that once upon a time when I was a kid and not yet opposted to recklessly flinging my body in the air and hoping to land on one foot, I had an axel. :roll:

[Debbie S]

If the rest of the program is good enough to pass, or if you only have one other mistake to correct in a reskate, then the judges could ask you to reskate the required spin that was missing in the program.That's what I've seen happen, too. A kid I skate with left out a required jump in her Pre-Juv FS test program. I don't even remember which jump it was. She also did an axel as an extra element, which wasn't required but it was in her program for comp so she and her coach figured, why not. Everything in her program was clean and the judges called her over at the end and asked her to do the missing jump (maybe a solo loop?) - they told her they knew she could do it, but they needed to see it. She did it, and passed (I think over).

[TreSk8sAZ]

? This is a good question--if you don't even attempt a required element in the program, would the judges ask to see it as a re-skate? I've assumed they have to at least see the attempt.

Any judges here who want to weigh in?

I accidently did a waltz jump (replacing an axel) on my Silver free, which meant I did not do the requisite number of single jumps. The judge just asked me to come over, stated they needed to see a salchow or something. I did a sal and passed no problems. It was just a fluke that we didn't take into account. It was not an automatic fail.

[stacyf419]

Hi folks - many many thanks for all the great and helpful responses, as always! :bow:

I decided to go with the majority of you and swap out the jumps in my competitive program (which I can't do yet anyway lol!) with the required single elements. And I totally agree on the need to practice only the test program prior to the test - twice today I went into the wrong jump.

Anyway, I am excited because a few months ago I basically figured I had hit a ceiling and wasn't getting any further as I COULD NOT land a loop or flip or remotely do a backspin even though I passed pre-bronze fs 2 years ago. I was trying to make myself happy with just being a good basic skater and getting my edges better and better. I kept plugging away at loop and backspin, though, and all of a sudden I am landing a (crappy) loop and hitting 3 speed-of-a-tortoise rotations on the backspin. So now I have hope again and am working like mad on these elements - they're finally within reach!! It's times like these that keep you going.

So I'm setting the goal to test bronze fs (I'm working on silver mitf) in December. Even if I fail, it will push me to work even harder and who knows how far I can get in 2 months now that I'm actually doing the elements?

[RachelSk8er]

I accidently did a waltz jump (replacing an axel) on my Silver free, which meant I did not do the requisite number of single jumps. The judge just asked me to come over, stated they needed to see a salchow or something. I did a sal and passed no problems. It was just a fluke that we didn't take into account. It was not an automatic fail.

That's different than totally omitting something though. A waltz could very easily be a botched axel attempt.

[doubletoe]

Hi folks - many many thanks for all the great and helpful responses, as always! :bow:

I decided to go with the majority of you and swap out the jumps in my competitive program (which I can't do yet anyway lol!) with the required single elements. And I totally agree on the need to practice only the test program prior to the test - twice today I went into the wrong jump.

Anyway, I am excited because a few months ago I basically figured I had hit a ceiling and wasn't getting any further as I COULD NOT land a loop or flip or remotely do a backspin even though I passed pre-bronze fs 2 years ago. I was trying to make myself happy with just being a good basic skater and getting my edges better and better. I kept plugging away at loop and backspin, though, and all of a sudden I am landing a (crappy) loop and hitting 3 speed-of-a-tortoise rotations on the backspin. So now I have hope again and am working like mad on these elements - they're finally within reach!! It's times like these that keep you going.

So I'm setting the goal to test bronze fs (I'm working on silver mitf) in December. Even if I fail, it will push me to work even harder and who knows how far I can get in 2 months now that I'm actually doing the elements?

Congratulations on your progress! The best part is that the loop and the backspin will each help each other!