Back inside pivot - help needed!

[Laura H]

I am getting ready for a comp at the ISI FS 3 level and although I can obviously DO a backwards inside pivot, I've always hated them because I feel so off balance and I just don't think I am "getting it" as far as where your weight should be, leg position, etc. Could someone please "walk me through it" as far as what *should* be happening when you do this move? Also, can it be in the middle of a program? (we've always stuck it in at the beginning which I seriously dislike since it's not really my favorite move). I'm going to bring it up with my coach at lesson tomorrow but any tips, suggestions, advice etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

[liz_on_ice]

I am getting ready for a comp at the ISI FS 3 level and although I can obviously DO a backwards inside pivot, I've always hated them because I feel so off balance and I just don't think I am "getting it" as far as where your weight should be, leg position, etc. Could someone please "walk me through it" as far as what *should* be happening when you do this move? Also, can it be in the middle of a program? (we've always stuck it in at the beginning which I seriously dislike since it's not really my favorite move). I'm going to bring it up with my coach at lesson tomorrow but any tips, suggestions, advice etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

I got photographed doing exactly this move and appeared on the front page of the NY Times - from the knees down! I just went looking, and here's the link (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/08/ice-skaters-are-having-a-hot-time-of-it/) 8-)

I don't know that I'm demonstrating the best technique - I was working towards that FS3 test myself at the time, but not there yet.

That is my older daughter's reflection in the upper left. :D

[Laura H]

That's awesome, pretty funny that they just had the shot of your legs down, though! That's the back OUTside pivot isn't it? Our instructor tries to get us to do that one from time to time in group class "for fun" but I'm not even sure I can hit that pose OFF ice so I just stick with the back inside. :giveup:

[liz_on_ice]

That's awesome, pretty funny that they just had the shot of your legs down, though! That's the back OUTside pivot isn't it? Our instructor tries to get us to do that one from time to time in group class "for fun" but I'm not even sure I can hit that pose OFF ice so I just stick with the back inside. :giveup:

huh, you're right - I hadn't noticed you'd said inside. Looking up the requirements now I see it is choice of outside or inside. My coach didn't give me a choice, she just showed me how to do the outside told me to get working on it. :lol:

[Skate@Delaware]

My coach has me work on both outside & inside....she will choose the better of the two when it's test time. Both of mine are crappy because I don't practice either of them. :lol:

[Skittl1321]

That's awesome, pretty funny that they just had the shot of your legs down, though! That's the back OUTside pivot isn't it? Our instructor tries to get us to do that one from time to time in group class "for fun" but I'm not even sure I can hit that pose OFF ice so I just stick with the back inside. :giveup:

Yep- that's the outside one (i.e., the hard one and the reason I can't do a toe loop.)

The inside back pivot is one of the few things that have come naturally for me. When I teach it, I always tell people to start by doing swizzle pumps around their toe pick as a pivot point. As you get more comfortable with it, the swizzle pump becomes stronger and you don't need 3+ pushes to get around each time. Eventually that one push will get you around 3 times. For me, it's a confidence and comfort thing. The only way to get it better is to keep doing it.

[dbny]

That's the back OUTside pivot isn't it?

My first thought too! I think if you have good turn out, the BO pivot isn't all that hard, but without the turn out - not so easy. As someone with a huge amout of turn in, I find BI pivots not a big deal. Anyone else relate to this?

[doubletoe]

My first thought too! I think if you have good turn out, the BO pivot isn't all that hard, but without the turn out - not so easy. As someone with a huge amout of turn in, I find BI pivots not a big deal. Anyone else relate to this?

Well, I relate to the opposite of that, LOL! I have good turnout and had a solid back outside pivot way before I got a back inside pivot. I forced myself to learn the left back inside pivot because it was the key to a consistent forward-back change foot spin (and it really helped!).

[dbny]

Well, I relate to the opposite of that, LOL! I have good turnout and had a solid back outside pivot way before I got a back inside pivot. I forced myself to learn the left back inside pivot because it was the key to a consistent forward-back change foot spin (and it really helped!).

And that's exactly what I'm suggesting:

Turn out = good BO pivot
Turn in = good BI pivot

[hanca]

I forced myself to learn the left back inside pivot because it was the key to a consistent forward-back change foot spin (and it really helped!).

That's interesting idea. My coach wants me to push with my left leg when
I do forward-back change foot spin and I can't get the push. (I either just swap the feet without any push, or I sort of 'push' with my right one when I am stepping on it, but never managed to get coordinated to push with the left one.) I will try to practice the left back inside pivot then. :)

[Laura H]

Well, now you have me wondering - maybe I need to work on the back outside pivot again, because I have lots of turnout, it's sort of a PITA when I'm supposed to have my hips CLOSED. As a CCW skater would I have my left pick planted and the right leg turned out and the blade on the RBO? Or is it the other way around? Sorry if that is a stupid question but this move just has me :frus: for some reason. On the plus side, I have the dance 3 sequence down pat and the change foot spin is actually pretty darn close to solid also - the only thing I am messing up now is that I don't stay long enough on the backspin, but at least it's not because I am falling over backwards and have no choice! Apparently I just stink at counting rotations. But I think once I get it laid out with the music, it will be fine. (either that or I will just do what I think is FOUR rotations, then I should be right on track). :twisted:

[Laura H]

huh, you're right - I hadn't noticed you'd said inside. Looking up the requirements now I see it is choice of outside or inside. My coach didn't give me a choice, she just showed me how to do the outside told me to get working on it. :lol:

Coaches are good for that, aren't they!! :giveup: Mine is in her 60's and still showed me a gorgeous back outside pivot the other day. And then looked at me with pity when I tried it and looked exactly like baby Bambi on the ice. :oops:

[fsk8r]

Well, now you have me wondering - maybe I need to work on the back outside pivot again, because I have lots of turnout, it's sort of a PITA when I'm supposed to have my hips CLOSED. As a CCW skater would I have my left pick planted and the right leg turned out and the blade on the RBO? Or is it the other way around? Sorry if that is a stupid question but this move just has me :frus: for some reason.

As a CW skater, I always Right toe and Left leg on the BO, so you'd probably prefer to do it the reverse of that as a CCW. Although I've always been told to practice it both ways. I just find it hard to get the toe in when I go CCW.
I was taught it as an inside 3 turn which just carries on rotating around on itself. Don't know if that helps at all.

[liz_on_ice]

Well, now you have me wondering - maybe I need to work on the back outside pivot again, because I have lots of turnout, it's sort of a PITA when I'm supposed to have my hips CLOSED. As a CCW skater would I have my left pick planted and the right leg turned out and the blade on the RBO? Or is it the other way around? Sorry if that is a stupid question but this move just has me :frus: for some reason.

Left pick, right blade skating. The entrance I was taught is start with LFO3 from the LBI edge step to RBO edge and bring your left foot around wide to behind you, lean back onto that RBO edge and place the left pick. keep arms up and shoulders level, turn your head far to the left.

[Laura H]

Thanks for the help and descriptions - I can do the back inside pivot without too much difficulty now, the trick is just making sure that hip is locked back behind me so I don't start getting my legs tangled up midway!! However, the back outside would fit (and look) much nicer in my routine, so I am going to keep working on that one too. It's close. I can get in position but not steady enough just yet to really lock it in and be able to do more than 1 rotation. I keep dropping the free hip and arm after settling into the pivot position. Finally had to grab one of my skate guards (the ones that go on the blades, not the ones that chase you off public ice! LOL) to make sure that I was keeping my upper body/shoulders straightened out and level and things went MUCH better. At least I got a better sense of what my body SHOULD be doing.

Thanks again!! Will keep you posted.

[doubletoe]

That's interesting idea. My coach wants me to push with my left leg when
I do forward-back change foot spin and I can't get the push. (I either just swap the feet without any push, or I sort of 'push' with my right one when I am stepping on it, but never managed to get coordinated to push with the left one.) I will try to practice the left back inside pivot then. :)

Yes, that is my exact problem as well! The LBI pivot made me feel pretty uncoordinated at first, but once I got it, it gave me the right feeling for my change foot spin. It's still a bad habit, though, so I have to remind myself to stick my right pick into the ice, then make a half circle with the LBI edge before lifting the left foot and starting the backspin. Works like a charm when I remember to do it, though!

[hanca]

Thanks for that, doubletoe!