Working with more than one coach

[RachelSk8er]

Since my current coach and I are having schedule conflicts that we can't work around this year, I'm adding another coach so that I can get regular lessons.

I'm thinking the new situation will be to keep each coach to his assigned "territory". My current coach has worked with me on everything the past 3 yrs (dance, moves, free, choreography). New coach only does moves/free, doesn't really do choreography (he'll work on existing programs but doesn't typically do them from scratch) and doesn't do dance at all. He's the one I'll be getting regular lessons with. I'm thinking I'll keep him to free/moves, the current coach and I will focus on dance if/when he can squeeze me in, and he can keep working with me on choreography (I do most of my own but then he gives me input).

I know the new coach is fine with that set-up because we've already discussed it.

I'm somewhat nervous that my current coach will not like this set-up situation and that he'll get possessive because he has worked with me on everything the past several years (he's also like a goofy, annoying big brother to me). He knows I want to add another coach so I have more consistency than our current "maybe every other week squeezing me in for 15 minutes when we both happen to be at the rink" setup that we've had going on due to our schedules this year, but I'm going with someone different from the name I initially threw at him. They have similar teaching styles, and the new coach is familiar with adult skating (currently coaches a few adults, including a masters jr/sr lady), but will still push me, so I think this combination will work out best for me. I'll be discussing it with the current coach when I see him tomorrow, I mainly don't want him to feel like I'm ditching him or anything like that because it's not the case. He's not totally losing me as a student, and I hope he'll ultimately understand that I have to do what is best for me. (I've never really made individual coaching changes before other than when I moved away for college, or when I was taking dance from a female coach and needed a male coach to partner with on tests.)

I know a lot of you take from multiple coaches. How do you work it all out? Do you do freestyle with one/moves with another, or do they both work with you on the same thing? Have there been any conflict of interest issues? (Or those of you who coach, do you have any advice?)

[Skittl1321]

I have a group coach and a private coach. The group lesson though is just 2 of us, so it's not like a huge LTS class where the coach is more of an instructor, and argueably he's a "better" coach. (World Junior Medalist, senior level tests in 3 displinces, and has the coaching ability to back it up vs. my other coach who has a few pre-gold dances, and I think a novice moves test). BUT my private coach and I mesh really well, so in my mind she's the "better" coach.

However, neither is possessive and it works really well for me to work on everything with both of them (except dance. I only do that with my private coach, my group coach can't dance). Sometimes it just takes hearing it another way for it to work.

Occasionally I will bring up in private lessons that the group coach asked me to do something a different way, and then my private coach usually yields to that, but more often then not it turns out they are saying the actual thing- and then they can both use the "told you so" when they found out the other told me it too. In the same vein in the group lessons if we are doing something very different, I usually give it a try, but if it really contradicts what the other coach says, I tell him. Since I'm an adult, I appreciate when they tell me WHY they are suggesting it the other way, and then I can decide for myself which way might work better and then tell whichever coach I'm not going with, that I've chosen to try it the other way. (But that's fairly rare, like I said- they are usually saying the same thing in different words).
I don't think this would work for a kid. I don't think a coach should be expected to explain their method to a young child, but as an adult I do expect it. I learn very differently from a kid.

I think it does help if you pick coaches with similar styles. We have a russian coach at our rink who I know this wouldn't work with. I know the coaches clash and often teach things very very differently, and criticize the other adults.

I take the same number of "group" lessons as "private" lessons, so one doesn't really trump the other as a primary coach. But if you have a "regular" and an "additional"- I think make it clear to the additional that you'd like to reinforce the habits your regular coach is teaching, and that you'd only really want different styles if there is a good reason for it. Compartmentalizing isn't a bad idea, but sometimes when one coach is telling you "lean, lean" and another says "put your weight on your pinky toe" they mean the same thing, but you suddenly get the spin, or whatever. So I'm not as big of a fan of "moves coach", "spins coach" if the coaches you have can do both.

[RachelSk8er]

So I'm not as big of a fan of "moves coach", "spins coach" if the coaches you have can do both.

The main reason for wanting to deignate disciplines is because the coach I'll be seeing on a regular basis is strictly a freestyle coach who doesn't do dance. My current coach does it all, but I initially started taking from him because he was a dance coach (I started with him when I moved here in 2006, didn't even start freestyle until 2008), so I can go back to focusing my lessons with him only on dance.

I made a list of my goals for this season (junior moves, clean axel, at least 1 standard pre-gold dance, podium at ANs in silver free and silver solo dance) and my more long-term goals (senior moves by 9/2010, standard gold dance test, double sal, double toe, compete champ gold at ANs and eventually pass at least intermediate free) for when I talk to my coach tomorrow to basically help me illustrate that I can't do this working mostly alone with (if we're lucky) bi-weekly 15-20 min lessons where we try to squeeze everything in, so ultimately this will be best for me in the long run.

My biggest concern is actually the moves because I'm kind of on a deadline if I want to pass senior before the changes in 9/2010. I really want to test junior in November (I'm down to one pattern that I would categorize as "bad"). I absolutely cannot do that without weekly moves lessons.

[Virtualsk8r]

When I work as the secondary coach to a skater - I ask the primary coach what needs to be worked on during that lesson. When I am the primary coach and have another coach work with a skater either because of time restrictions or scheduling -- that coach does the same thing.

Working with adults is different than working with younger skaters, as you are paying the bills - and tend to be more in the drivers seat. Many coaches are control freeks and don't like someone taking away their authority. I've just had that problem with a secondary coach of one of my students - who didn't like the fact that he was not the primary coach - so now is is pleasant but somewhat snubbing the parent and the skater feels the difference...

I coach all disciplines but draw the line at higher level dance partnering -- so when we use a dance partner/dance coach, my skaters tend to do dance with that coach. Usually partners are limited in time, so I also give dance lessons along with the freeskate if the skater needs it.

I have found, however, that dance coaches who start teaching freeskate can be very territorial with their students....something about not being pegged as just a 'dancer'. Freeskate coaches don't seem to have the same issues.

The bottom line is - you have adult goals and pay the bills. If your Coach#1 really knows you - he should understand that this is a scheduling issue so discuss the distribution of lessons with him. It is not unusual for skaters to get extra lessons from a specialist when trying moves tests during the weeks prior.....or to get extra harness lessons before freeskate tests etc.

BTW Dance coaches are among the best for teaching edges and turns (now that few coaches actually know what a figure is) and since moves are full of edges ----- a good person to have on your team.

Good luck with your tests!

[Rusty Blades]

I do Free only and my #1 coach of the last 2 years has taken on additional (administrative) duties so I took on #2 coach last spring. #2 coach is actually the Head Coach (and a VERY experienced high-level coach) so I left it between the two of them to figure out who is "in charge" (it is #2 because of her experience).

After each session I enter in my Journal what was worked on and email a copy to both coaches. So far so good.

(I only worry when I see them both watching me and talking among themselves! 8O ALWAYS means I am "in for it"!)

[ibreakhearts66]

I now have 4 coaches, although I don't take from all 4 in the same week. It's been pretty easy for me because my primary coach sent me to 2 of my 3 secondary coaches. She suggested I work with one of them, and then more or less told me I was working with the second. The third coach is mostly my moves/dance (in theory) coach. I wasn't specifically sent to HER, but she's one of two coaches at my rink that is really knowledgeable in moves and dance, so asking my main coach if I could work with her wasn't awkward at all. and My main coach does freestyle and choreography and will also work on moves a bit. The coach she suggested I work with is a jump coach, and actually used to be her coach. The one she told me I would be working with is a former ballerina, so the purpose of working with her is tidying up my program.

My primary coach isn't one to get territorial at all, but if I ever want to work on a specific freestyle element with my moves coach (she's master rated in freestyle in addition to moves and dance), I just ask my primary coach if it's alright. She always says it's fine.

I think they key to making it work when you have more than one coach is to make it clear what each coach is working on with you, and making sure everyone knows who the primary coach is.

[iSk8Dance]

My partner & I have lessons with 2 coaches - 1 male & 1 female and have had lessons with them for many years. We each used to have individual lessons with them, but also have joint lessons with each coach. Female coach is very high level. Male coach used to be her pupil several years ago. It works out pretty well. She's always right. We've always been able to pass on messages between them.

I do know that some coaches can't work together. Seems to be particularly so in free, but I do know of some other dance coaches which our current coaches couldn't work with. It's down to personalities at the end of the day.

[RachelSk8er]

I have found, however, that dance coaches who start teaching freeskate can be very territorial with their students....something about not being pegged as just a 'dancer'. Freeskate coaches don't seem to have the same issues.


Yeah, this is sort of what I see happening. I came to my current coach when I was on my silver dance test (which I've since finished). I got the wild idea to become a freestyle skater again after not doing it since I was a kid (and then I was only pre-prelim), and he got me from basically really bad, very limited freestyle skills (scratch spin, bad sit spin, no back scratch, and my only jumps were out of control flips, toes and sals) in January 2008 to where I'm at now (passed pre-juv free, starting to work on doubles). We haven't really even done much dance this past year because we have such limited time to work on things and have focused exclusively on freestyle. So he might get territorial. I just don't think anyone he'd be likely to "send" me to so that I can get regular lesson time is going to be a good fit for me (or would work with my schedule), whereas I really like the coach I picked.

[Scarlett]

I work with two coaches...

One is freestyle with occassional moves. The other is dance and moves. It works out well for me but the area I skate in does a lot of team coaching.

[techskater]

I work with 2 coaches. One is primary and has "control" over my skating. The secondary works on what I drive - choreography, style, specific elements/turns etc (like this evening's lesson on a specific program piece, a specific move, etc). The funny thing is, they have similar credentials but are 20 years apart in age - both passed 8th figure, Senior free, dance (primary through gold, secondary through some silvers). Secondary coach is driving things a little differently than primary, which is good - different focii, different methods of correction. Primary drives from the waist down, secondary drives from the waist up...

[fsk8r]

I have a dance coach and a free coach. Neither gets upset with each other over anything. It's my skating after all and I make the decisions. When it comes to moves, I'd traditionally done them only with the dance coach, but the free coach is actually really good at them. I started asking her to just look over them once in a while to get the different perspective because I'd already know that I was struggling to do X. Now I just let them both work on moves with me. It's nice having the different emphasis now and then on the exercises.
I'd discuss adding a coach, with the first coach, but if they already understand that there are timetable issues, and that it's to help you resolve those, I don't see what the problem is. You're not dumping the coach you're supplementing them.

[Mrs Redboots]

Our coaches are a married couple, which works very well indeed, as they tend to "team teach" anyway. It's all very relaxed - if one of Husband or I can't make it, then the other takes the lesson; if one of them can't make it (unusual, but not unknown), the other tries to fit us in.

[liz_on_ice]

I've got winter and summer coaches. My primary takes summers off, she recommended me to my summer coach so I can keep working year round.

It works out well because winter coach is ISI and summer is USFSA, so I've spent the summer working on moves and testing. I'll work on FS4 and FS5 elements over the winter and get an FS4 test program, which will tweak easily to Bronze.

[Query]

As a professional courtesy, the new coach will liely talk to the old coach, so you may want to discuss the idea with the old coach first. He/she may even suggest someone who teaches with a compatible style.

I used to take from two coaches, one dance and one freestyle. I got very confused. "Correct style" is very specific to the coach, even on the most basic things, like which body parts move where, when, and which muscles are used, how.

Maybe you are good enough not to get confused.

I felt I had to put in a lot of time to justify the cost and not waste the coachs' time - about 20 hours/week to justify 2 half hour lessons/week, which was really hard to manage, for a working adult. But maybe you learn faster than that, or maybe you have money to burn.

[RachelSk8er]

I felt I had to put in a lot of time to justify the cost and not waste the coachs' time - about 20 hours/week to justify 2 half hour lessons/week, which was really hard to manage, for a working adult. But maybe you learn faster than that, or maybe you have money to burn.

20 hrs/week to justify 60 min of lesson time honestly seems like a lot, but everyone is different and it depends on how much you're doing, how long you've been skating, whether you compete or not. My general rule of thumb is 15 min of lesson time per every 1-2 hrs you can practice a particular discipline in a week (but I'd never go over 1 hr of lesson time/week regardless, I just don't have the time/money to skate that much). So when you're doing dance and moves and freestyle (and on the higher end with regard to moves/dances), you need at least 45 min/week to touch on everything on a regular basis. 2 yrs ago, I was getting about 45 min of lesson time a week (skating 5-6 hrs), and made some real progress that season (passed 3 dances and 2 freestyle tests).

Now that I'm working and back in school, I've cut back to skating 3-4 hrs a week, so cutting down lesson time would logically go along with it. Last year I only did 30 min and we basically cut out doing dance for the time being (other than an occasional few minutes on the solo dances I was competing) because otherwise my lessons were not focused enough and we were just wasting time.

The issue at the moment is I'm not even able to get 30 min/week now due to schedule conflicts, as my coach also cut back on hours he's spending at the rink. I'm getting 30 min maybe every 3 weeks. Adding the second coach will give me a regular 30 min a week (ideally 15 min of free/15 min of moves). When the coach I've been taking from can fit me in, we can focus just on dance and get my pre-golds ready to start testing after Adult Nationals (since I'm probably going to have to move up).

[londonicechamp]

Hi

It is better just to stick to one coach, as every coach has a different style of teaching.

When I first switched coach back in Hong Kong over 10 years ago, I tried to finish my lessons with the previous coach. The new coach was trying to correct my bad habits (such as doing forward crossovers wrongly), while my previous coach allowed me to continue the bad habits (that is: she did not correct me), which meant that I ended up being very confused, as I do not have 2 minds.

In the end, my new coach asked me to stop having lessons with the previous coach.

Also, make sure you find a coach who can explain what you are doing wrongly (as bad habits die hard). I did have a coach in Hong Kong (over 10 years ago) who knew that what I was doing was wrong, however, he did not know how to explain it to me, meaning that we both ended up being very frustrated. :giveup:

londonicechamp

[RachelSk8er]

Hi

It is better just to stick to one coach, as every coach has a different style of teaching.



Not always, it really depends on the skater and their needs, goals, style of learning, schedule, budget, and the makeup of coaches in the area in which they train.

Most elite skaters and many not-so-elite work with more than one coach for various reasons. Not every coach can be an expert in every aspect of skating. Many skaters will do freestyle/moves with one coach and dance from another. Or they work with one coach who is more of a techniqe expert on jumps/spins and another handles their program/choreography. One of the top coaches here (who has coached at the World level) knows nothing about moves tests, other than that skaters have to do them, so all of his skaters take moves from someone else, and I've seen him work with dance teams on free dance but never compulsories. A lot of skaters at my rink also take once a week from a more experienced/expensive coach as well as a coach who is less experienced/less expensive (there are a few teams of coaches here who always work together, often the less epxerienced coach is a student or former student of the more experienced coach).

Often hearing something explained differenlty by someone else helps make things "click", even though they may really be saying the exact same thing just in a different way.




After stressing myself out for the past week over this, we were fortunately able to work something out at least for this year, so I'm sticking with just him after all. After we sat down and had a conversaton about my goals and our schedules and everything else, he pretty much realized that if we didn't figure something out, having to work with another coach or make a complete change altogether was inevitable. He didn't like that any more than I did.

[saras]

and wouldn't do it any other way. I have a dance coach who I also ask for edges/turns/steps help (either MIF or footwork) b/c he's really good at it; I have a FS coach who right now is doing a lot of work with me on improving jump technique and getting new jumps - though she also does spins and MIF and some dance and choreography and program work (the jump focus is more about what I'm doing at the moment, not about her abilities). There's another mostly-dance coach I work with a bit who does a bit of everything too. And then there are the favorite "when traveling I'll work with you" coaches.

I really appreciate getting multiple inputs on the same stuff. Even if it's different technique, I'll play with it and then stick with what works best at any given time.

[Skate@Delaware]

20 hrs/week to justify 60 min of lesson time honestly seems like a lot, but everyone is different and it depends on how much you're doing, how long you've been skating, whether you compete or not. My general rule of thumb is 15 min of lesson time per every 1-2 hrs you can practice a particular discipline in a week (but I'd never go over 1 hr of lesson time/week regardless, I just don't have the time/money to skate that much).
In the beginning I skated about 20 hours per week, only because I needed that much time on the ice: dance, synchro, shows, etc. I only spend about 3-4 hours/week now. It's quality instead of quantity.
Hi
It is better just to stick to one coach, as every coach has a different style of teaching. londonicechamp
If your coaches have compatible styles of teaching then you can take from more than one. I have two coaches and they have never contradicted each other, know each other very well and their style is similar. One gets more into the technical while the other is more into the artistic. It works very well. Your coaches should communicate with each other just to make sure you, as the student, is kept on track should you have a deficiency in skating (i.e. problem with an element, etc).

[Skittl1321]

In the beginning I skated about 20 hours per week, only because I needed that much time on the ice: dance, synchro, shows, etc. I only spend about 3-4 hours/week now. It's quality instead of quantity.

I'm not even sure our rink has 20 hours of available ice time (outside of standard business hours when I'm at work). Maybe if I stayed the entire public session on the weekends, but those are too crowded to do anything but circle. For the past 2 years we have had only 2 hours of freestyle available per week. Now there are 4 hours of morning sessions (2 days), but those conflict with getting to work.

Most weeks I have more lesson time than practice time with 1 hour lesson and 30 minutes practice. 30 minutes of those lessons are group though. I try to get to Saturday freestyle for 45 minutes, but that doesn't always happen, and more often than not lately it hasn't been. I also have 1 hour of synchro. I think it would be ideal to be 2:1 on practice/lesson time, but I can barely find the time to make it 1:1.