Where is the sweet spot for backspin?

[londonicechamp]

Hi

I just learnt backspin recently. Went for practice today, seemed to be getting a little bit better, one revolution and a bit (most of the time only one revolution though). Tried lifting the left leg higher, and can hold for a bit longer. ;)

I do know that there is a sweet spot for backspin as well. However, I just do not seem to be able to find it. Does anyone know where it is? :roll:

londonicechamp

[Clarice]

Same place as a forward spin, just on the other foot.

[londonicechamp]

Hi Clarice

Do you mean that it is on the forward part of the blade, towards the toe, on the left foot?

londonicechamp

[Skittl1321]

Do you mean that it is on the forward part of the blade, towards the toe, on the left foot?


If you spin clockwise, yes- the forward part of the blade, towards the toe on the left foot. If you spin counter-clockwise, your backspin should be on your right foot.

[londonicechamp]

Hi Skittl321

I spin counter-clockwise. Does this mean that my sweet spot for the backspin should be somewhere else?

londonicechamp

[tazsk8s]

Hi

I just learnt backspin recently. Went for practice today, seemed to be getting a little bit better, one revolution and a bit (most of the time only one revolution though). Tried lifting the left leg higher, and can hold for a bit longer. ;)

I do know that there is a sweet spot for backspin as well. However, I just do not seem to be able to find it. Does anyone know where it is? :roll:

londonicechamp

When you find yours, maybe you will find mine there along with it. LOL:lol:

Seriously, though, my coach once told me to press down with the baby toe (Right foot, counter-clockwise spinner). I usually tend to wind up too far back on the blade and this seems to get me closer to the front and more on an outside edge.

[londonicechamp]

Hi tazsk8s

Are you struggling with your backspin, like me? :D

londonicechamp

[tazsk8s]

Hi tazsk8s

Are you struggling with your backspin, like me? :D

londonicechamp

Right now I'm coming back from an injury, so I'm struggling with a lot of things. The backspin is just one of many things that is missing in action at the moment.

The baby toe tip was one of the better ones that seemed to help me the most with finding the sweet spot, though.

[londonicechamp]

Hi tazsk8s

Where is the baby toe? Is it the little toe?

londonicechamp

[PinkLaces]

My coach is always yelling - "Little toe! Little toe!" at me during the backspin. She says that's where to put the weight. My problem is if I stop thinking about "little toe" and start thinking about bringing the arms in, I lose the sweet spot and roll back on the blade.

[Skittl1321]

Hi Skittl321

I spin counter-clockwise. Does this mean that my sweet spot for the backspin should be somewhere else?

londonicechamp

If you spin counter-clockwise, your backspin should be on the right foot. But the sweet spot is in the same spot on both feet, up towards the front, just before the toe pick.

I have a tendency to lean too far back on my backspin (working so hard to get this) so my coach is encouraging me to think about spinning on my toe-picks. Now, you shouldn't ACTUALLY do that- but thinking about doing it seems to get me off my heels.

He's told me that if I make a TON of snow, it's because I'm on my heel. A good spin shouldn't look like I took a scraper to the ice.

[tazsk8s]

Hi tazsk8s

Where is the baby toe? Is it the little toe?

londonicechamp

Hi londonicechamp,

yes, that's the one! :)

[londonicechamp]

Hi Skittl1321

Actually I spin clockwise. I have seen quite a few people in my rink spinning anti-clockwise, and sometimes got confused when I watch those people doing backspins.

I am left handed, with the exception of brushing my teeth, holding chopsticks and writing. However, I feel more comfortable doing jumps and spins in the clockwise direction.

My coach discovered that I am actually much better doing moves on my left hand side.

londonicechamp

[londonicechamp]

Hi Pink Laces

Son on my back spin, I should lean more towards my little toe, on the left hand side?

londonicechamp

[londonicechamp]

Hi Pink Laces

I meant to type so, not son.

Sorry.

londonicechamp

[katz in boots]

Where is the sweet spot for backspins?

I don't know, but when you find it, please share:lol:

[Skate@Delaware]

When you start your backspin, make sure you are really down in the knee before you straighten up. You should go around at least 1 revolution before you rise up (hmmm just like a scratch spin). This helps you center. Be sure you are on that outside edge and you are not blocking your spin with your shoulders, they should be leading the spin (CCW the left shoulder should be slightly pushed back). Also, be sure your free leg is in the right position, if it isn't have your coach pay attention to it because it can block you. I've been working on this for 3 years and have finally started getting good backspins so stick with it!!!

[PinkLaces]

Actually I spin clockwise. I have seen quite a few people in my rink spinning anti-clockwise, and sometimes got confused when I watch those people doing backspins.

I am left handed, with the exception of brushing my teeth, holding chopsticks and writing. However, I feel more comfortable doing jumps and spins in the clockwise direction.

My coach discovered that I am actually much better doing moves on my left hand side.


So you are spinning clockwise? That is the same as me. I'm a right handed in most things, but do almost all sports left-handed. My sister, who is a skating coach, calls me an opposite rotator, because I do everything the opposite way she does. :roll:


Hi Pink Laces

Son on my back spin, I should lean more towards my little toe, on the left hand side?

londonicechamp

It's not really leaning. You don't want to lean out of your circle/spin. It's more a subtle shift of weight on your skating foot.

Not sure how you are entering your spin. I go in from a LFI 3 turn. I try to get up some speed. Even though it's scary, it makes it easier for me to get some momentum going. Once I get on the back edge of the 3, I start thinking about my left little toe. My weight seems to automatically shift there. However, like I said, if I start thinking about correcting something else like my arms (which sometimes drop and don't pull in right) or closing the H position with my free leg, I lose the spot and roll back some toward the heel. Nothing stops me faster. If I hear scraping, I know I'm too far back.

[dance2sk8]

Out of everything I have learned and been able to accomplish in my short time figure skating since January, this is the one accomplishment I have not been able to complete. I either end up twizzling (which now I can do easily and have inserted it into my program... :lol:) or too far up onto my toe pick or too far back on the blade. I have YET to see circles on the ice from a back spin. Very frustrating!!! :frus::frus::frus::frus:

[Skittl1321]

I have YET to see circles on the ice from a back spin. Very frustrating!!! :frus::frus::frus::frus:

I have finally gotten to the point that I'm getting circles. Having a really really deep entry edge (I get an edge growl on this, one of the few times my blades make THAT noise), and a quick shift onto the back edge seem to be what do it. If I give myself time to linger on the flat I'll end up with the twizzle look too (although, twizzle relatively in place, so I can't harness it into actual twizzles :( ) - so I really have to pop. Then, don't begin to pull in until you have a nice spin started, pulling in too fast will throw me right back to the flat. It's a hurry up and wait sort of game.

Thankfully I don't fall onto the inside edge like so many kids seem to do. That's a habit I don't want to have to break.

[dance2sk8]

I have finally gotten to the point that I'm getting circles. Having a really really deep entry edge (I get an edge growl on this, one of the few times my blades make THAT noise), and a quick shift onto the back edge seem to be what do it. If I give myself time to linger on the flat I'll end up with the twizzle look too (although, twizzle relatively in place, so I can't harness it into actual twizzles :( ) - so I really have to pop. Then, don't begin to pull in until you have a nice spin started, pulling in too fast will throw me right back to the flat. It's a hurry up and wait sort of game.

Thankfully I don't fall onto the inside edge like so many kids seem to do. That's a habit I don't want to have to break.

Hehe, me and my inside edge for back spins are best friends!!! :P

Argh, I have to work on that. Its a confidence issue, I think, when it comes to working on my back spin and getting used to the outside edge. I can do loop jumps!!! Why can't I do this! LOL! :D:lol:

[coskater64]

On the rocker.

[Skittl1321]

Hehe, me and my inside edge for back spins are best friends!!! :P

Argh, I have to work on that. Its a confidence issue, I think, when it comes to working on my back spin and getting used to the outside edge. I can do loop jumps!!! Why can't I do this! LOL! :D:lol:

Apparently I have an issue with the number 7. We worked on backspins yesterday (nice circles on the ice, slow as molasses) and my coach was counting rotations and I'd fall at 7 everytime. So then she didn't count out loud, and I still fell out of it at 7. (I only fell down once, but I'd always stumble out of the spin, and not be able to kick out)

[Skate@Delaware]

Apparently I have an issue with the number 7. We worked on backspins yesterday (nice circles on the ice, slow as molasses) and my coach was counting rotations and I'd fall at 7 everytime. So then she didn't count out loud, and I still fell out of it at 7. (I only fell down once, but I'd always stumble out of the spin, and not be able to kick out)
Are you letting your body collapse and then you fall out of it? I do that but I haven't made it to 7 very often-usually 4-6 revs. :lol: My coach wants MORE SPEED on my backspin, that makes me freak out LOL!

[Skittl1321]

Yes, my body collapses first. I just can't keep the position strong enough.
My coach wants more speed too. And logically I know more speed would mean more revolutions, but I freak out when I have to push hard into it.

But I think she was pretty happy with the 7 revolutions, even if I was never able to make it to 8. Heck, I was pretty happy with that!

I need to be able to pull in tighter. I can get my foot crossed, and down next to the boot, but it's rare that I feel my legs touch. It's just not a comfortable position.

[Skate@Delaware]

Yes, my body collapses first. I just can't keep the position strong enough.
My coach wants more speed too. And logically I know more speed would mean more revolutions, but I freak out when I have to push hard into it.

But I think she was pretty happy with the 7 revolutions, even if I was never able to make it to 8. Heck, I was pretty happy with that!

I need to be able to pull in tighter. I can get my foot crossed, and down next to the boot, but it's rare that I feel my legs touch. It's just not a comfortable position.
No it isn't a comfortable position, but staying tighter in your core will help. When I go into my backspins, I'm doing it on the line (still...always on the line LOL!) so I'm taking off onto a LFI edge, when I switch feet, I push off again and deepen my knee bend-this creates more "power" and all that. 8O Major freak for me I'm still afraid of falling over onto my head hahaha!

I think as time goes by you will become more adjusted and adapted to it and be able to hold it longer. You've progressed so much anyway so hang in there! I wish I had that many revolutions (although my coach would always want just a little bit more).

[techskater]

opposite rotator, because I do everything the opposite way she does. :roll:

No, no, no - it's the CCW rotators who are OPPOSITE of us. And btw, we'd be the only ones in our right minds on the ice since we are "lefties"

[techskater]

No it isn't a comfortable position, but staying tighter in your core will help. When I go into my backspins, I'm doing it on the line (still...always on the line LOL!) so I'm taking off onto a LFI edge, when I switch feet, I push off again and deepen my knee bend-this creates more "power" and all that. 8O Major freak for me I'm still afraid of falling over onto my head hahaha!

I think as time goes by you will become more adjusted and adapted to it and be able to hold it longer. You've progressed so much anyway so hang in there! I wish I had that many revolutions (although my coach would always want just a little bit more).

Are you leading with the correct side? Do you have the string through your body pulling you straight up over the spinning side? These are all things to consider to improve backspins.

[Skate@Delaware]

Are you leading with the correct side? Do you have the string through your body pulling you straight up over the spinning side? These are all things to consider to improve backspins.
I did not at first, which was very frustrating! I used to fight being on that edge/side and used to block it with my shoulder (my left shoulder was rotated in front of me instead of leading behind).

Now that I've gotten used to the backspin, it's coming together, I'm leading with the left shoulder, getting upright in my body (i.e. string pulling me up), and free leg is more and more in the correct position. I tend to fall out when I get tired, lazy, or feel off-balanced (usually when I'm pre-migraine).

No, no, no - it's the CCW rotators who are OPPOSITE of us. And btw, we'd be the only ones in our right minds on the ice since we are "lefties"
I'm the only one in my group class that jumps/spins CCW! For once, I'm the true "oddball"!!!!

[dance2sk8]

Apparently I have an issue with the number 7. We worked on backspins yesterday (nice circles on the ice, slow as molasses) and my coach was counting rotations and I'd fall at 7 everytime. So then she didn't count out loud, and I still fell out of it at 7. (I only fell down once, but I'd always stumble out of the spin, and not be able to kick out)


Girl!!! You are doing 7 revolutions in a back spin!!! :bow::bow::bow::bow: 8O8O8O8O8O :: jealous :: :giveup:

You need to post some video on facebook of it. How long did it take you to get the backspin? Just curious. I know this is something I am going to struggle with for awhile. :D

Oh, on a high note, I got my toe loop down nicely now. Its the first jump in my program!!! I can do the flip, but it still sucks. I get height, just terrible body positioning. :roll:

[Skittl1321]

I posted a video of my backspins here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehp-Cy6rNu0). They weren't quite as good as I was doing on Wednesday I don't think... but having a coach critiquing each one helps.

Any comments? I notice I really really lean into the entry- which is why I lost one of them. That helps me gain the teeny bit of momentum I have.

I also can see that what I think of as "tight" position isn't even close!

And now I can see why my coach sometimes mocks me and tells me he doesn't know how I manage to balance on a blade moving so slowly...

[dbny]

Any comments? I notice I really really lean into the entry- which is why I lost one of them.

I think they are really good, very nicely controlled. You didn't lose that one from leaning into the entry too much - you broke at the waist, and that's what did you in. My only suggestion would be to bring your elbows down as your arms come in.

[Skittl1321]

I think they are really good, very nicely controlled. You didn't lose that one from leaning into the entry too much - you broke at the waist, and that's what did you in. My only suggestion would be to bring your elbows down as your arms come in.

That's what I meant by lean, not lean into my edges- but lean DOWN. In some of them (that one especially) it almost looks like I'm thinking about going into a camel my upper body is so low...

I'll have to ask my coach about the arms. She might have a "plan"- because she's been stressing strong, parallel to the ice, arms.

[doubletoe]

I posted a video of my backspins here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehp-Cy6rNu0). They weren't quite as good as I was doing on Wednesday I don't think... but having a coach critiquing each one helps.

Any comments? I notice I really really lean into the entry- which is why I lost one of them. That helps me gain the teeny bit of momentum I have.

I also can see that what I think of as "tight" position isn't even close!

And now I can see why my coach sometimes mocks me and tells me he doesn't know how I manage to balance on a blade moving so slowly...

It's a good start! To get more control, think of tucking your butt under you as you step into the entrance edge, then press the ball of the blade into the ice, keeping your knee bent even once you start the spin. The tucked butt will keep you from breaking at the waist and the pressing and knee bend will give you something to pull in from, so the spin will be faster.

[londonicechamp]

Hi Skittl1321

I have been looking at your backspin at youtube. Well, they are really centred and they are great.

Read on this forum that it takes someone 3 years to master the backspin. I have only just started, so there is still a long way for me to go yet!!!!! :roll:

Another question I now have is: how do you go into your backspin? My coach taught me to go into my backspin, by using inside 3 turns on the right leg, basically like a S shape. They help, but still not more than 1 revolution. My coach said that I keep on putting my left foot down after 1 revolution, coz my leaning on the body weight is probably wrong. Anybody knows how I can get past this problem.

Thanks guys. :lol:

Any off ice exercise that I can do at home, that helps with my backspins?

londonicechamp

[Skate@Delaware]

You can work on your back edges, that will help but that is on ice. Keep working at it, you will eventually get it.

I enter mine the same way Skittl1321 does, inside edge to inside edge and spin. But do it the way your coach suggests as they know you better.

[doubletoe]

Hi Skittl1321

I have been looking at your backspin at youtube. Well, they are really centred and they are great.

Read on this forum that it takes someone 3 years to master the backspin. I have only just started, so there is still a long way for me to go yet!!!!! :roll:

Another question I now have is: how do you go into your backspin? My coach taught me to go into my backspin, by using inside 3 turns on the right leg, basically like a S shape. They help, but still not more than 1 revolution. My coach said that I keep on putting my left foot down after 1 revolution, coz my leaning on the body weight is probably wrong. Anybody knows how I can get past this problem.

Thanks guys. :lol:

Any off ice exercise that I can do at home, that helps with my backspins?

londonicechamp

Try your backspin on a line on the ice. Assuming you do it CCW on your right foot, start in a T position on the line with your right foot in front, bend your knees & ankles, look a little to your left and make a very small, round circle with your right inside edge, pressing into the ice with the ball of your blade. Don't start the spin until you have actually come back to the line (and in order to do that, you'll probably have to wait until you think you've actually crossed the line). Once you start the spin, think of your entire body as a single unit, like you're in a full body cast. Otherwise, you may unconsciously twist your torso so that your right shoulder starts coming around. That shoulder needs to stay anchored back so that your weight stays over the spinning foot. It can also help to think of both hands pressing down onto a table as you go into the spin.

[techskater]

That's what I meant by lean, not lean into my edges- but lean DOWN. In some of them (that one especially) it almost looks like I'm thinking about going into a camel my upper body is so low...

I'll have to ask my coach about the arms. She might have a "plan"- because she's been stressing strong, parallel to the ice, arms.

For more speed, you would need to get more "snap" with the right leg as you turn over to the BO edge and start to spin.

[Skittl1321]

I enter mine the same way Skittl1321 does, inside edge to inside edge and spin. But do it the way your coach suggests as they know you better.

THis is my "advanced" entry. I've been working on a backspin for 2 years. I spent quite a bit of time just standing on the line and doing a single inside edge until I got back to the line.

And before that, just a 2-foot spin and picking up my other foot.

[londonicechamp]

Hi guys

Just wondering how long it takes you guys to master a backspin (I am not looking at 5 or 6 revolutions, but hoping to get at least 3 revolutions). Just wondering if there is anybody who mastered the backspin as soon as they learnt it. I am finding this spin most of the time frustrating lol. 8O

Is 2 or 3 years generally the amount of time that a person takes to master their backspin.

Yes, my coach often says that I do not 'snap' quick enough. My coach is actually saying that I should be doing an inside-inside edge. I think it is similar to what skittl1321 is trying to say to me.

londonicechamp

[Isk8NYC]

I don't teach the backspin with the 3-turn entrance right away. I just found that there were some control issues that need to be taught before you introduce that concept. I myself always use the RFI 3-turn entrance unless I'm demonstrating something.

If the skater has a good forward spin, you can start with a change-foot so they get the feel of being in a backspin. Very few can keep up the momentum needed to continue the backspin; you rarely get more than two revolutions from a beginning backspinner. The trick is to twist away/back and pigeon-toe push onto the BO edge. It takes coordination and speed, usually beyond a lower-level skater.

The second level is to have the skater stand on their backspin foot and place the free toe in the ice behind or to the side. They check to the spinning side, then turn their entire body around to pick up the free foot in front. It's an awesome drill to teach the position - it's hard to not end up with your free foot in front, lol. The only difficulty is that many skaters tend to break at the waist, so you have to remind them to stay upright and keep their skating knee bent for a revolution. Still, this is far and away the most productive way to teach backspins.

Before teaching the 3-turn entrance, I start by drawing a corkscrew on the ice around and leading into the center of a hockey dot. (The hockey guys think it's funny to find, too!)

The skater has to "trace" that corkscrew with the inside edge of their blade. Free foot trails in the air, toe pointed. Arms/shoulders are cross-checked - meaning the opposite arm/shoulder leads into the corkscrew, the skating-side arm/shoulder stays behind the free hip. (This alone takes a long time to master, but it pays off very quickly.)

When the skater gets to a point where they can hold it to the center, I add the "snap." All they have to do is stay down on their knee, and bring the body around to "catch up" with the free foot/hip. I use this as an intro to the 3-turn entrance. The strength built up by the checked corkscrew makes snapping into the 3-turn very simple.

I also add off-ice practices such as using a spinner or plastic plate or just socks in an open kitchen. It's the "snap" you're looking for.

On-ice, gliding on a BO edge and running through the backspin positions over and over really help make the skater comfortable on the edge. I sometimes add a "hold until you stop on the toepick" drill. That takes incredible control because of the curve.

[londonicechamp]

Hi

I usually wear tracking pants, and padded shorts underneath for my ice skating lesson and practice.

Will it make a difference to my backspin, if I wear a tight? :?:

londonicechamp

[Isk8NYC]

Try wearing tights, but remember the skater wears the clothing/skates, not the other way around.

[fsk8r]

I think finally after years of trying I had something which actually wanted to stay spinning. Normally I do 1 or 2 revs and the backspin just grinds to a halt. Today there was at least 3 revs on most occasions and it felt like a spin. don't know what I did differently, but I think I finally got to finding where the sweet spot is and how to hold the core strong, stand up straight and all those other things.
A long way still to go because I'm not tight enough in the spin and I need more of an entry edge before the inside 3. But it's a start and I'm quite happy to take it.
Why this spin is so difficult is beyond me, but hopefully it's making some progress.

[Skate@Delaware]

I also had a hard time with this until I got several things clicking:
-tighter core (which meant working out my core harder)
-staying down in the knee longer and not "whipping" around too early
-not blocking with my shoulders
-more power going into it, because otherwise I had no momentum

[londonicechamp]

Hi

I am now on ISI freestyle level 4. I am learning the backspin. My coach said that there is a new improvement since I have got my blades sharpened recently. However, I still cannot find where the sweet spot is. I did some research on the internet, which tells me that if I manage to find the sweet spot, then I can spin for ages on the backspin. My coach encourages me to practise on my backspin, so that I can progress onto axel etc. I am now learning the loop, but with not too much difficulty, as I am a left hander (though I do most things right handed). :roll:

The thing that I do not understand is why I can do easily anywhere between 20 to 40 plus revolutions on the cross leg position in my forward one foot (scratch)spin, whilst barely get past the 1 rotation on the backspin. :giveup:

My coach has me trying to do the backspin from a right foot inside three turn position. I did some research, and it said that there is another way to do the backspin, which is: do the scratch spin, then put foot down on the ice, then do the backspin (though this method is rarely used). Maybe this will work for me.

Another thing I want to know about backspin is: does it make a difference, in other words, does it matter whether my boots lace is tight enough or not.

londonicechamp

[doubletoe]

You might want to work on the backspin from a left back inside pivot (right toe in the ice while drawing a small CCW circle with your left blade, then lift the left foot to start spinning on the spot right behind the right toepick). That will help you learn the transition from the forward spin on the left foot to the backspin on the right foot. It will also eliminate any issue you may be having due to a poor RFI entrance edge.

[AshBugg44]

I am now learning the loop, but with not too much difficulty, as I am a left hander (though I do most things right handed). :roll:

My coach has me trying to do the backspin from a right foot inside three turn position.

Are you jumping lefty and spinning righty?

[singerskates]

No, no, no - it's the CCW rotators who are OPPOSITE of us. And btw, we'd be the only ones in our right minds on the ice since we are "lefties"

:lol:

Don't you know when we CCW skaters skate right, you CW skaters are left behind. :lol:

Thought I'd polk a little fun.

[katz in boots]

Been working on this thing for about 4 years now. First I was too far back on the blade and twizzling. Now I definitely am getting closer to the toe but still end up kicking up a lot of snow and stopping dead. I wonder, is it possible to lean too far over on the edge?

I did actually have this pretty good a few months ago when I was having weekly lessons, I could get 10 revs ! :P But not now.