Private or group lessons?

[isakswings]

I'm going to start getting back into skating for myself. Due to financial circumstances, I took a break for awhile but am now heading back to the ice. I'm excited since I LOVE to skate and cannot wait to hit the ice regularly again. Anyway, before, I skated on my own and attended some learn to skate classes. I took up through USFSA adult 3. It's been awhile since I've taken an LTS class and I was thinking of signing up in September, but now I am considering taking private lessons from either my daughter's coach or another coach my daughter's coach suggested. I won't take them weekly and I'll likely start with basic moves and skills. I'm doing this because I need(and want!) the exercise and I love to skate. So, in my situation would you opt for private lessons or group? Our adult classes are small but it seems to me that at times, I'm not learning as much as I could be learning. They often combine the adult class, so sometimes someone else might need more help then someone who can work independantly. Eventhough it will cost me more money, I feel I might get more out of a 1-1 lesson then the group class. I'll likely start with 15 minute lessons so I can keep costs lower. Anyway, those of you who take or have taken lessons, what have you done?

[sk8lady]

It probably depends some on what kind of learner you are. I get very little out of group classes--I get more out of a 15-minute private lesson than I do out of an hour group class.

[fsk8r]

One thought on taking the private lessons from your daughter's coach is that I personally don't like coaches comparing my skating to that of others. My sister also skates and shares my dance and freestyle coaches. It wasn't my choice and there was an initial phase where they compared us. I don't talk about my sister's skating with my coaches as we're two different individuals (and it's my time!) but it's natural for people to compare. I think being compared to my kid would be worse. My freestyle coach is great because she wouldn't compare me to my sister (probably because her sister skated as well and she understands the politics!) but the dance coach naturally wants to.

As to whether to have private or group. I spent a long time saving money by being in group only to realise when I went to private that I could have made more progress earlier by making the switch which I suppose means I could have saved money. But it's a difficult one. I do find it's easier to keep the fitness side of skating by having the private lesson. It's easier to skip a group class.

[Skate@Delaware]

If you feel you are not getting the individual attention in a group and not progressing as quickly as you feel you should, then perhaps private lessons would be good. I switched for that reason. I did miss skating with the other women-it did get lonely skating by myself (lessons were on a different night and I was the only adult non-coach skater).

A good coach does not talk about other skaters and compare your skating to theirs. A good coach helps you set reasonable goals for your skating, both short- and long-term and helps you achieve them. Also, a good coach pushes you slightly beyond your abilities so you have growth in your skills but never jeopardizes your health or safety.

And in privates, you can squeeze a lot into a 15-minute lesson so if that is all you can afford, see if you can get that weekly instead of every other week. And ask for homework for in-between lessons.

[dak_rbb]

From what you say, I would go with the privates at whatever level you can afford. I've always made MUCH more progress during the few real private lessons I've done. And I've taken lessons from both my dd's coaches and the comparison thing has not been an issue. (What are they going to say anyway--we all know who's waaaay more advanced and we all know the difference between starting when you're 45 and starting when you're 5!) Sometimes dd will tag along and help "demonstrate", but it's always fun. I think most professionals would not make comparisons with other skaters anyway.

That said, I've been taking mostly group lessons throughout the 3 years I've been skating, because 1) I'm cheap and it all costs a lot, 2) there have been a few other adults who started at the same time and we've progressed through the groups together, and 3) there are usually only 2 or 3 skaters in my group at any one time, 4) I've liked most all the coaches, and 5) I'm in no hurry and I'm making progress. If anything changes, I will switch to privates even if only every 2-3 weeks.

[PinkLaces]

I'm doing 1-2 private lessons with the same coach as my DD and also doing a group lesson. My group lesson has two 12 year olds and me in it. I picked up the group lesson for the summer, because there was very limited evening ice in the summer and the coach could only do 1 evening a week as her son had t-ball. So doing the group lesson gave me an extra night a week.

The group lesson - I asked my coach if I should sign up for ISI FS3 or FS4 as I have done USFS in the past. She told me to sign up for 3, but I could float between 3 & 4. Well, there are no FS4 level kids so I'm stuck in 3 when all I need was to polish up some skills there. The group instructor does let me work on 4 skills on my own. She is nice enough, but she is not as picky as my coach is.

DD's coach never compares our skating. She may say DD does that too when correcting something. The only thing that happens sometimes is Coach wants to talk logistics during the beginning of my lesson - ice scheduling, test or competition for DD. Doesn't happen very often. I just say Let's talk about that after my lesson.

I think you will make better progress with a private lesson and you won't have to stick to the group's lesson plan.

[Query]

I think it depends a lot on you, and a lot on the coaches available for private and group lessons, and even on how much time you have available.

It may also depend on whether there are other adults in the classes you want to take - most of us find it hard to learn in a class geared for kids, because of the differences in learning style. Like, with kids, most coaches use "monkey see, monkey do" style teaching, avoid using words as much as they can, don't stay on one move for very long, and (unless they are in a very seriously oriented group lesson) avoid implied criticism where other kids can hear them.

Some coaches can teach a lot in a group setting, some mostly babysit. By the same token, some coaches would have trouble teaching you much in a 15 minute private.

When taking with other adults, I always felt there was an important social component to group lessons.

If you are very serious, or want to compete, privates with a coach whose teaching style matches your learning style are probably the way to go, unless you find a very, very good group lesson teacher. Many serious private lesson students find also taking group lessons to be a cost effective way to get supervised practice time.

At first, you may be most comfortable with no lessons, and with concentrating on getting physically fit again, if applicable. I've personally reached a plateau where strength, endurance and flexibility training (together with working on using more and different muscles) probably do a lot more good than skating lessons, and have stopped the lessons altogether. (E.g., all the best coaching in the world can't make me jump appreciatively better if I don't have the strength to do it right. In fact, without that strength and proper muscle use, jumping too much could easily create an injury.)

The truth is, I've bounced back and forth between various ways of learning. Sometimes one way works better, sometimes another.

Given your economic concerns, and that you are just getting back into it, you could always start with the groups, if the group lesson coach seems good, and concentrate as well on the physical training aspects outside class. Then do an occaisional private too, and figure out where to go from there. If you take short privates from your group lesson coach (often a useful and cost effective to do), it's very important to establish with her/him from the outset that it's OK for you to take lessons from other coaches, so you can take lessons from other group lesson coaches, or try other coaches that might fit your learning style better.

But anything like this is so individual, you shouldn't expect any of us to give the answer that is right for you. You need to make up your own mind.

[RachelSk8er]

If money is a concern and you know another skater around your level, you could always share a private lesson.

[Skittl1321]

She is nice enough, but she is not as picky as my coach is.



Group instructors walk a fine line with students who have private coaches. Because some things are just different "styles" of doing things, and maybe not technically wrong, just personal preference, they tend to try not to contradict the private coach, thus, seeming a bit 'easier'.


I personally LOVE my group lesson situation. I have who I consider is the best coach at the rink for groups and have for a few years. I would stop groups if he left unless my private coach took over. He and my private coach have a very similar style, and because of his experience my private coach often defers to him if he tells me something different, though I always talk it over with her before making a technique change.

I take "kids" lessons rather than adults and while lots of kids have come and gone it's been the same few since we started freestyle. I track with them even though most are working on early doubles because my posture, footwork and spins can sort of keep up with theirs and I work on singles as they progress higher. Although every 6 months or so we get "tested" for USFS freestyle levels, the freestyle class is divided by "high" and "low" (high generally means you can identify your edges and are working on a sit spin and at least 4 jumps, low means you just finished Basic 8 and need to redo everything you were lazy about in the basics) and we just do whatever the coach wants that day. Yesterday we worked on Preliminary MITF, some days we work as high as Juvenile MITF. We often work on moves I've already passed, or won't have to do, but it's always worthwhile to try toperfect them!

[Skate@Delaware]

It's going to depend on what your goals are, how hard you need to work to achieve them (are your goals high and are you at a low level?) and the amount of skating you are able to accomplish as well (lesson plus practice time). If you want to achieve fitness, you should throw in some off-ice workouts as well (see the off-ice thread for ideas).

There are ways to keep the cost down-sharing a lesson, skating on public sessions (even if you can't jump/spin you can work on footwork), group lessons and an occasional private, etc. And my favorite: skating in the ice shows if your rink has them (you get free coaching for the show numbers, you only have a small entrance fee to pay for participating).

[isakswings]

Thanks everyone! My goals are simple. I want to get in better shape, I would like to improve my own skating and I want to learn simple moves. I'm not all that interested in jumping but I would like to learn some spins. I MIGHT consider testing moves just to have a goal, but I have no interest in competing. I might consider participating in a show, but to do that I would have to be in learn to skate or a member of the club. :)

I really do feel I would advance more taking private lessons then taking group lessons. What I like about taking a private lesson is that the coach can work with specific things I might need help with. Plus, I will always have the same coach, so I won't get confused by different coaching methods!

When I took LTS, often times we had a different coach each session and sometimes we had a couple different coaches during our session. I'm not concerned about dd's coach comparing dd and myself. Dd is WAY ahead of me anyway, LOL. Plus, my goals and dd's goals are completely different. Dd is competitive, I am not. I want to focus mainly on moves, dd is focusing on both. :)

Thanks so much for the feedback. It helps to hear others opinions. I think for myself, that private lessons would be best. :)

[Query]

IAnd my favorite: skating in the ice shows if your rink has them (you get free coaching for the show numbers, you only have a small entrance fee to pay for participating).

What I cool idea! I'll have to look into that. We've a fair number of rinks around here, there should be some good possibilities.

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I ran into another possibility a few years back. I auditioned for a synchro team. A few coaches spent 3 or 4 sessions preparing the auditioners for the audition. The costs were minimal. I paid those coaches for a couple extra lessons, and worked very, very hard for a few weeks.

I wasn't good enough to get into the high level synchro team I was trying to get into. Got into the lower level team, but they changed where and when it would rehearse, which proved impractical for me, so I decided not to skate with them. But in the mean time, I had learned a lot, and got into better shape.

That kind of group lesson is taught in a much more intense and serious fashion than typical rink-run group lessons (whose goal is recreation rather than competition, and coaches apply low standards, as Skate@Delaware point out), by people who spend a lot of time teaching groups of people to skate at a serious competitive level.

But I don't think a synchro team would be very happy with people who took the prepatory lessons from the synchro team purely for training purposes, but had no intention of joining the team. If you get in what you are trying to get into, you should be willing to join.

===

I understand what the O.P. is talking about. I took group and private lessons from many different coaches, and got very confused about what was proper style. Having one good coach can simplify things, at least if your body is capable of skating the way your coach wants you to skate. (Some coaches only know how to teach you to move the way that the coach's body moves. People's bodies differ in a lot of ways, like strength, center of gravity, limb length, and flexibility, and they are also taught to move a lot of different styles too.)

If you have one main coach, and make up your mind to stay with her/his style where group lesson coaches differ in what they teach, that sometimes works pretty well. No matter how much they differ, there are still a lot of things most coaches have in common, that the group lesson teachers effectively help you review between the more expensive private lessons. You may even discover one of the other styles works better for your body, and switch coaches.

[niupartyangel]

I started out with group lessons in adults. Incidentally my very first adults class instructor is now my private lesson coach :) She was really great working with adults and know our limitations and knew how to explain things well.

The adults classes were always smaller although in the subsequent sessions as I advanced, the coach (they change the instructors every session to let them experience teaching diff levels) would kinda leave me alone, because they would spend time with someone who needs more instruction, especially if they were in the lower levels...i.e. "ok you go work on your waltz jump/toe loop and ill come back to you"...sometimes I was fine with it but of course I would like more one one time too. Eventually I supplemented the group classes with a 15 minute private lesson from my current coach (who taught me in my first adults class session).

One day our adults group coach (a different lady) told the skating director that I really should move to a regular freestyle class with the kids. She asked me if I minded skating with kids and I said no, and she said it's good and it would benefit me too since I "outgrew" the adults class since it wasn't meant for people who wanted to stay beyond ISI Delta. So I stayed in group FS 1 and FS 2, still with my 15 min private lessons afterwards...eventually it got to the point where I needed a lot of help and attention for the one foot spin, that group classes weren't helping me much because everyone needed help on that so the instructor's time was so divided! I talked to my hubby about the cost of hiring my coach for just hourly private lessons every week and he said whatever will make me happy and progress, it was fine :) (he's very supportive). So now I have an hour private lesson every Saturday with my coach, and a 1/2 hour practice afterward by myself. I also skate an hour on Tuesdays..... I have progressed FAR beyond than if I were stuck in group classes. Only because the thing holding me back from moving on to FS 3 was the spin, so i couldn't pass the level. I was doing everything else nicely in FS 2 except for that darn spin. During my private lessons, my coach has taken to teaching me salchows and toe loops (in addition to correcting my spin) because I was getting otherwise bored in FS 2. I just would have been "stuck" and bored if I stayed in group classes because one element hindered my learning other things... and I probably would have quit out of frustration.

I'm working on my pre-bronze moves and FS and hoping to test in October! If you plan on testing I highly suggest hiring a coach to help you with the elements since they dont cover some stuff in group classes (like the waltz 8 and 3 turn pattern).

So it's up to you...maybe start out in group classes and if you really like it and find that the advancing moves seem to need more one on one instruction for you to improve...supplement them with a 15 min private. It really does make a big difference because the coach can spot bad habits that would otherwise escape the group instructor's eye, since there's other people around to watch. Good luck!

[RachelSk8er]

Thanks everyone! My goals are simple. I want to get in better shape, I would like to improve my own skating and I want to learn simple moves. I'm not all that interested in jumping but I would like to learn some spins. I MIGHT consider testing moves just to have a goal, but I have no interest in competing. I might consider participating in a show, but to do that I would have to be in learn to skate or a member of the club. :)


If you want to get in shape and use skating to do it, I highly suggest trying ice dancing. I think, particularly for an adult skater who is at a lower level or just starting out, you'll get a bigger physical fitness benefit out of it. Plus it will make your overall skating better, so if you want to learn a few jumps and spins, those will be better too.

Two years ago there were two adults at my rink who skated on publics and adult sessions and just sort of hung out at one end of the rink close to the boards and skated back and forth (one in her mid-late 30s, one around 60 but looks 40). Both were in group lessons at the time. They've both since started ice dancing, and the difference in just the past 2 yrs is incredible. The younger of the two is working on her bronze moves, bronze dances, and was doing scratch spins, salchows and toe loops yesterday. The other is on her pre-bronze dances and pre-bronze moves, she still struggles with 3 turns, but she's so much more comfortable and confident on the ice. I think they have both progressed a lot faster than a few of the other low level adults at my rink who aren't taking ice dancing and don't have as much body awareness.

[isakswings]

If you want to get in shape and use skating to do it, I highly suggest trying ice dancing. I think, particularly for an adult skater who is at a lower level or just starting out, you'll get a bigger physical fitness benefit out of it. Plus it will make your overall skating better, so if you want to learn a few jumps and spins, those will be better too.

Two years ago there were two adults at my rink who skated on publics and adult sessions and just sort of hung out at one end of the rink close to the boards and skated back and forth (one in her mid-late 30s, one around 60 but looks 40). Both were in group lessons at the time. They've both since started ice dancing, and the difference in just the past 2 yrs is incredible. The younger of the two is working on her bronze moves, bronze dances, and was doing scratch spins, salchows and toe loops yesterday. The other is on her pre-bronze dances and pre-bronze moves, she still struggles with 3 turns, but she's so much more comfortable and confident on the ice. I think they have both progressed a lot faster than a few of the other low level adults at my rink who aren't taking ice dancing and don't have as much body awareness.

Thanks! I'm not sure where I would go for ice dancing classes. I'm quite sure I'd have to hire a private coach for that too. The thought did cross my mind tho!

I can do 3 turns(not always pretty tho!), mohawks, crossovers(better forwards) and sometimes I can spin ok. LOL! I can skate backwards and do some other very basic stuff. Anyway... I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. I likely can't start my own lessons until next month. I need to wait until I can afford to do it and between paying for my son's hockey and my daughter's skating club and upcoming comp, I am tapped out. LOL! So, hopefully next month. I am working on getting to the rink a couple of times a week right now so that makes me happy! Hopefully by the time I can start my lessons, I can be in a bit of better shape and ready to learn!