Blades of Piney closed; skating downturn?

[Query]

The "Blades of Piney" pro shop at Piney Orchard Ice Arena, in Odenton, MD (USA), has closed for business. :cry: The store had been open for many years.

Chuck Fox, the proprietor, says skating shops and businesses have had severe economic troubles the last few years. He said he got almost no business at Piney, and has a lot less business than even a couple years ago at "Blades of Bowie", his other store (still open) at the Bowie Ice Arena, in Bowie, MD.

Chuck used to run "Ice Magic", an internet business, too - but it's web site says it is under new management, though I forgot to ask Chuck if that means he is out of it.

Is he right - are other pro shops, skating rinks, clubs, instructors, etc. seeing a general downturn in business?

If so - do you folks think this is just the current economic times, or is skating having more troubles than other sports?

What should skating organizations do? Do we need another scandal?

Any ideas? :twisted:

[Isk8NYC]

I know you were joking, but no, we don't "need another scandal."

Yes, the downturn in the economy has affected the skating industry dramatically. There are other contributing factors, such as:

. We're in the third year of the Winter Olympics cycle with Vancouver 2010 still "out of sight/out of mind" for many people.
. There is a lot more competition for young people's time in terms of other sports. We see a huge dropoff when Soccer/Baseball/Softball season starts in the spring.
. Skating is still considered a winter sport by most people. I love skating in the summer, but most people want to go to an outdoor pool or the beach.

Skating shops are in trouble as well, at least in terms of figure skating. The competition from internet-based discounters is awful in figure skating. People don't value the service most good pro shops offer and they don't consider the ENTIRE cost of buying skates. They save $20 up front and think they got a bargain, never adding on the $30 they spend after the fact for sharpenings/adjustments/early replacement when the skates are broken down or outgrown early. Sorry, it's a soapbox issue for me.

More and more pro shops are going hockey-only, mainly due to the incredible growth of hockey. Fitting, adjusting, and sharpening figure skates is different from hockey skates and most pro shops at most one or two people trained to handle those needs. If they eliminate the figure skating sales/service, they don't need to do extra training or listen to complaints about bad FS fittings/sharpenings.

One of the pro shops down here said that the FS coaches at his rink send their skaters elsewhere for skates and sharpenings, so he eliminated all but the recreational skates from his inventory. It's silly to stock blades that no one will buy. It is ironic that I go to him for my kids' skates because I like the service he provides, lol. I do send my beginner students to our pro shop for their needs, but I ENJOY going to the other rink and spending a day there getting skates and doing other things at that facility.

Last item: figure skating is often called "an expensive sport" by people in the industry, almost like a badge of honor. That scares off many parents of skaters who don't want to get involved with a sport that requires second jobs and mortgages at the upper levels. Do we really need to have kids lifting weights at the age of five, with a $90/hour trainer? Spending $400 on a skating dress for a Basic Skills competition? Putting a Basic Skills skater on expensive freestyle sessions instead of a public session? Taking three lessons a week but not doing any practices?

[Mrs Redboots]

Putting a Basic Skills skater on expensive freestyle sessions instead of a public session? Taking three lessons a week but not doing any practices?
Are your public sessions cheaper than your freestyle sessions? The reverse is very much true here. All the same, I wish they wouldn't let ankle-biters on to them.... and you should hear my coaches on the subject of those who do not practice, who book lessons and then "forget" to come..... etc.

[Skittl1321]

Are your public sessions cheaper than your freestyle sessions? The reverse is very much true here. All the same, I wish they wouldn't let ankle-biters on to them.... and you should hear my coaches on the subject of those who do not practice, who book lessons and then "forget" to come..... etc.

Yes, over here it is very common that freestyle is more expensive than public. At my rink (which is very very inexpensive in general) a public session is $5 and can last up to 6 hours (there is one $5 public that is 2 hours- but that includes skate rental). A freestyle is $9 and is usually 1 hour, but in the summer is 2 hours.

At the other rink I use public is $5 for 4 hours. Freestyle is $9 per hour.

I've seen rinks with freestyle up to $20 an hour though. I don't think I could afford to skate.


We don't have a pro-shop near us, though our rink sells Jackson and Ultima at a pretty good discount. We have a few coaches who have mini-pro shops, relationships with companies (Edea, Jackson, paramount) that they can get you stuff. My sharpener is in a different town than me, but worth the drive, I think. She might be able to fit boots properly (I don't know) but I don't think anyone else who sells them does a fantastic job, though some are more knowledgeable than others.

[Clarice]

The pro shop at our rink just closed, too. Currently we're having services provided by Rainbo Sports, which sends the van out here every 6 weeks or so. We all book sharpenings or fittings in advance, and also call ahead if we need them to bring something specific. It's not ideal, but there's nobody in town who knows how to sharpen figure skates. Our only alternative would be to go out of town for that. We tended to go out of town to buy skates anyway, since our shop couldn't maintain an inventory beyond intro level boots and blades from a single manufacturer.

[Debbie S]

The "Blades of Piney" pro shop at Piney Orchard Ice Arena, in Odenton, MD (USA), has closed for business. :cry: The store had been open for many years.

Chuck Fox, the proprietor, says skating shops and businesses have had severe economic troubles the last few years. He said he got almost no business at Piney, and has a lot less business than even a couple years ago at "Blades of Bowie", his other store (still open) at the Bowie Ice Arena, in Bowie, MD.

Chuck used to run "Ice Magic", an internet business, too - but it's web site says it is under new management, though I forgot to ask Chuck if that means he is out of it.I was at Piney a month ago and Chuck told me the website was "under construction" b/c they were changing their ISP and it was taking a while to get the site transferred.

The Bowie shop has always closed in June and July b/c the rink is closed. It's not surprising that one shop has closed, if Piney has indeed closed - when both rinks/shops are open, it's hard to staff 2 simultaneously, and I imagine that since they are in the same general area, 1 takes business from the other. Chuck does a lot of hockey business at Bowie, so I'm sure that will keep the store afloat. Perhaps he's not going to be selling as much figure skating apparel, since it looked like the Piney shop was almost cleared out when I was there.

I've been hearing rumors for several years now that Piney (the rink) is closing. The times I've been to the Piney shop, I've seen almost no one on the FS session, so it wouldn't surprise me. Perhaps that announcement is coming soon - if true and that's why Chuck closed the shop, he wouldn't be able to tell people until a formal announcement is made. It may be that the rink didn't want to renew his lease for a full year b/c mgmt doesn't know what they're going to do.

[skaternum]

Skating shops are in trouble as well, at least in terms of figure skating. The competition from internet-based discounters is awful in figure skating. People don't value the service most good pro shops offer and they don't consider the ENTIRE cost of buying skates. They save $20 up front and think they got a bargain, never adding on the $30 they spend after the fact for sharpenings/adjustments/early replacement when the skates are broken down or outgrown early. Sorry, it's a soapbox issue for me.You're absolutely right.


Last item: figure skating is often called "an expensive sport" by people in the industry, almost like a badge of honor. That scares off many parents of skaters who don't want to get involved with a sport that requires second jobs and mortgages at the upper levels. Do we really need to have kids lifting weights at the age of five, with a $90/hour trainer? Spending $400 on a skating dress for a Basic Skills competition? Putting a Basic Skills skater on expensive freestyle sessions instead of a public session? Taking three lessons a week but not doing any practices?:bow: Yeah, what you said. The amount of money some of these parents pump into this kind of stuff is just mind-boggling. Thanks for articulating one of my personal pet peeves too.

[Terri C]

Putting a Basic Skills skater on expensive freestyle sessions instead of a public session? Taking three lessons a week but not doing any practices?

At some rinks, the management will not allow freestyle on public sessions and to boot, the public sessions are few and far between, so in those cases, Basic Skills skaters have little or no choice.
And to add to all of this, the one rink in my area that had two surfaces is taking one down, converting it to grass for indoor soccer. Of course this is the rink that is poorly managed and the most expensive in town to skate at.

[slusher]

Is he right - are other pro shops, skating rinks, clubs, instructors, etc. seeing a general downturn in business?

If so - do you folks think this is just the current economic times, or is skating having more troubles than other sports?

What should skating organizations do? Do we need another scandal?



In our area there's a couple of factors. One is the demographic, we're in the midst of a downturn. Schools have smaller classes at grades 3-7 so birth years hmm, 1998-2001? The older kids graduated out to university over the last two years so there's no one in the clubs right now that is between 12-18. It was something that was discussed at one of our regional meetings and every club is hurting for the senior sessions. Senior normally is by ability, but most clubs put 14 and over on them too if they can skate but might not have the freeskate test. They're mature enough to handle the and they stay with their friends. These are the kids that keep the club going by skating every year.

The second is the economy. We got hit hard and last year our hockey organization had the worst year ever for non-payment. This year they've already done pre-registration, you just say if you're going to play and not have to pay at all until the fall. They've had people say no that have had their kids in for years, because they don't have the money now and they're likely not to in October either.

Third is, as someone said the snob factor of the cost of skating. Generally the kids in private lessons are from families that have the money or make it a priority. And they almost brag about how much they spent (...for little pre pre pre pre to go to her first competition). For a learn to skate parent who paid $250 last year, to hear numbers like $1500 (seasonal) and $3000 (all year) tossed about, they just decide not to start into it at all. And we all know that those are very low numbers, but that's the entry point on their first year.

And lastly, pro shops *are* hurting. I have friends in the business and at one point was considering purchasing a share of an existing business. I'm glad I didn't. Skaters are making do with their existing dresses, or trading or eBay or getting a local seamstress to make a basic dress and they do it themselves and for skates, the number of people who are going to wait another year is more than normal.

However, at the top elite level, it's business as usual, expensive dresses, new skates although there's a lot of sponsorship for that, and some interesting ice arrangements. Probably the biggest thing I've noticed is the absence of trips to other places to get choreography from the top people, which means I've seen some new choreographic faces around which could be a good thing. David Wilson isn't hurting for business I'm sure but there's more affordability to choose from.

A scandal, no, but rinks and clubs and coaches (the people who make money) might have a close hard look at their rates and see if it's better to stay in business at a lower rate, or to keep hiking their rates and watch people walk away.

[niupartyangel]

The place I bought my skates at 4 years ago, and whom I go to sharpenings as well, has closed down early last year. The last time my hubby stopped in to pick up my skates from the last sharpening, he told me there was clearance and sale signs all over the place. The owner recognized him and asked about me and asked if I "needed any outfits" but my hubby said no since I didn't instruct him to buy anything else...if I knew stuff was on sale I would have told him to stock up on tights or something 8O

Then a few months later i found out through another student at the rink that this place has indeed closed up for good. but I do feel bad because it's another small business that got affected by the economy. Shortly afterwards hubby and I bought a condo that has a skating rink right across the street that has a pro shop...the pro shop looked really dinky at a glance but I slowly learned this guy was good and respected, he even travels to out of state to service far away skaters also and hsi shop is always busy with skaters waiting to be fitted and stuff especially on Saturdays. Good sign :) and I am satisfied with the sharpenings, he charges $15 like the last place I went to and it's so convenient for me to pop over after work to drop them off and pick them up. Sometimes if it's not busy he even tells me if I don't mind waiting he can do it right then. I hope he stays in business for awhile.He only sells boots, blades, gloves/tights/socks...no dresses or apparel. That should keep inventory costs to a minimum. If I didn't know there was a reputable sharpener by me I would have been forced to drive all the way out to Rainbo and that'll have to be on a weekend coz rush hour traffic is so horrendous and it's already about 40 mins away without traffic. It'll be hard for me to time it right to have my skates back for Saturday's lesson.

Before you guys get jealous I have a rink literally a hop and skip away...it is a smaller facility than where i take lessons at, and the only freestyle during the week i can make is tuesdays at 5:30 pm...everything else is DURING THE DAY while us normal people work, what gives? of course all the rest of the evening hours are devoted to hockey. The only time I can attend public skate or a morning freestyle is if I take a day off. ALthough in the winter time they have public skate in the weekends. So no, I don't skate as much as I'd like.

[Isk8NYC]

At some rinks, the management will not allow freestyle on public sessions and to boot, the public sessions are few and far between, so in those cases, Basic Skills skaters have little or no choice.
Another example of the industry shooting itself in the foot: public sessions are the way to "hook" beginning skaters. Making ice time available and fairly inexpensively is profitable, builds a strong program base, and encourages more participation in the rink's programs.

As many people have pointed out in the past, allowing hockey skaters to do the same maneuvers on a public session that the guards sanction figure skaters for (turns, skating backwards, going fast) is just discrimination. It makes the recreational figure skater feel unwanted or unwelcome. If they were really concerned about liability issues, they'd enforce the rules evenly.

I really think the industry needs a wake-up call.


I know some of our members used to frequent South Mountain Arena in NJ in the late 1980's/early 1990's. Their in-house pro shop was run by Corona & Liebenow, who also had the original Sky Rink pro shop. They were great, but at some point the County raised the rent at South Mountain. C&L rented a storefront across the street in a shopping plaza and did very well for several years outside the rink. Talent and word-of-mouth can make a huge difference. They closed the location a while ago and now work out of Mennan Arena.

[blackmanskating]

I was at Piney a month ago and Chuck told me the website was "under construction" b/c they were changing their ISP and it was taking a while to get the site transferred.

The Bowie shop has always closed in June and July b/c the rink is closed. It's not surprising that one shop has closed, if Piney has indeed closed - when both rinks/shops are open, it's hard to staff 2 simultaneously, and I imagine that since they are in the same general area, 1 takes business from the other. Chuck does a lot of hockey business at Bowie, so I'm sure that will keep the store afloat. Perhaps he's not going to be selling as much figure skating apparel, since it looked like the Piney shop was almost cleared out when I was there.

I've been hearing rumors for several years now that Piney (the rink) is closing. The times I've been to the Piney shop, I've seen almost no one on the FS session, so it wouldn't surprise me. Perhaps that announcement is coming soon - if true and that's why Chuck closed the shop, he wouldn't be able to tell people until a formal announcement is made. It may be that the rink didn't want to renew his lease for a full year b/c mgmt doesn't know what they're going to do.

I agree with Debbie S. I also heard that Piney may be closing. The few freestyle sessions I went to were pretty empty. It was great at the time. But every time I went there to get my blades sharpened, it was still pretty empty. I always thought it was because the rink is difficult to find. That rink is back in the woods somewhere. I got lost trying to find it my first time. Chuck Fox is the only person allowed to touch my skates, so I sincerely hope that all goes well with Blades of Bowie. I'm pretty sure things will be fine there because of the huge hockey following. It's still going to be tough because I have no idea how I will get my blades sharpened in the summer now. Bowie closes down for the summer. This is going to be crazy.



BlackManSkating

[OnEdgeSkating]

I can't speak for all pro shops but we ( On Edge Skating ) are a new shop. We are both online and take clients by appointment. I think that with the economy being the way it is if your not online then your at a severe disadvantage.

We have far surpassed what we thought we would do volume wise in skate sales. That's counting local sales and national sales. I think it's all about the niche market. For us, we only cater to figure skaters. Boots & blade sales, maintenance waterproofing, sharpenings and things like that. We are now starting to see the beginning curve of "Olympic fever" from a consumer stand point. The boot manufacturers we sell ( Jackson, SP Teri, and Edea ) have felt the crunch for a few months now. Some models are on a 8wk back order.

I think to a large extent it's how you approach your business model and your customers.

I also wanted to comment on something I have read in different post. Edea stock boots come in c width. They can be narrowed to accommodate b width or widened for d width. Customs can be made with a widths. These are boots that are in the class as Sp Teri, Reidell, Jackson, and Graf. I am seeing more and more skaters requesting Edea and seeing some of the top skaters wearing them. Just because they are new doesn't mean they are inferior boots. The Menlo family who own Edea first started Risports before they were bought out. They have a lot of great qualities to their design.

[Skate@Delaware]

At some rinks, the management will not allow freestyle on public sessions and to boot, the public sessions are few and far between, so in those cases, Basic Skills skaters have little or no choice.
Our new rink director has added this rule, but applied it "no doubles, flying jumps, no camels" and if it's crowded no jumps or spins at all during public. There has yet to be a crowded session though. He did state that this is the first rink he has seen where there the public sessions outnumbered the freestyle! But what good does a 3pm freestyle session do anyone? Kids are still in school, most adults are working.

Our pro shop, which was previously managed by the rink, is now managed by Skate-Buys (from Newark, De). So far, it's been good (but I don't get my blades sharpened there, I go to Skate Club of Wilmington, although I hear that U of DE is good as well).

[kayskate]

I am a skating instructor. The rink where I work and other where I still have contacts are all suffering from a downturn in enrollment in LTS and privates. Many pros have been laid off b/c there are not enough students to fill classes. I do not know of a pro at my rink who has raised rates for the last few yrs. What we need is more students.

A lot of beginners enter LTS and drop out after they have "learned to skate" which usually means one season or less. Business tends to pick up over the holidays and drop off dramatically in spring when kids take up outdoor activities. This would be true even in better econ times, but the busy season is less busy and summer can drop to almost zero. Last summer I barely worked. The summer before I had some classes. Last season we had fewer peak season classes than the yr before and "peak season" was shorter, as indicated by enrollment.

I see fewer ppl committing to the sport, which translates into reduced need for equipment and private lessons. We have gotten creative by offering grp low FS classes when this used to be all private. We are also planning some short term classes for adults to get them on the ice w their kids. Overall, enrollment is low. I used to teach adult classes w several students. Last yr this dropped to 1 class w 2 ppl. So far, we have had no adult classes at all.

We only offer 1 hr FS per wk due to lack of interest. Rinks charge a lot for FS b/c ice is valuable and it can be sold for hockey for a higher return. I am not involved in hockey, but there still seems to be plenty of hockey at our rink. Many LTS students want to play hockey (including girls). It may be that rec skating and FS has decreased in popularity regardless of econ conditions.

Kay

[Skate@Delaware]

Hockey at my rink has picked up, and for the kids that is great, the times are more convenient. We are hoping that skating will pickup soon, with more skating finally being broadcast on network tv (not everyone in my area has cable) and with the upcoming Olympics. We hope....

[Careygram]

I also believe that the Harding/Kerrigan hype "artificially" inflated the public interest in skating and that along with the economic downturn people are back to thinking of it as a sport to watch on TV during the olympics. That's how it was for me growing up. Skating was never really on TV or around in shows. It did get more popular with Ice Capades and Stars on Ice but the "scandal" factor did a lot for the sport too. Hopefully the demand will pick up again when the economy gets better because I for one won't be stopping and we do need new/more skaters to keep rinks alive and coaches interesting in staying and teaching.

[Isk8NYC]

I think television helped figure skating tremendously even before the various controversies.

There were competitions, both amateur and pro, and various skating shows on TV pretty much every Sunday from December through April. Sometimes they'd show the Nationals on both Saturday and Sunday for four hours!

The Rockefeller Center Tree Lighting always included skaters as part of the lineup. Not anymore - it's catch as catch can to find figure skating on television.

I think the Salt Lake City Olympics judging scandal really reduced the interest in figure skating. I read a blog the other day that only half-jokingly compared fixed professional wrestling matches to figure skating competitions. Of course the new judging system was supposed to fix that, but it's underwhelmed people who want to see beautiful skating instead of jumping passes (or worse, splatfests.)

Add to it the incredible cost of reaching the top of figure skating and the parents start looking at other sports. Think about it: little Suzy says "Mommy, I want to be a figure skater like those ladies on TV." Mom watches the program with more interest and finds that they spend thousands of dollars on the costuming alone! "Uh, why don't we try gymnastics? You won't get cold, honey!"

[Rob Dean]

So far, it's been good (but I don't get my blades sharpened there, I go to Skate Club of Wilmington, although I hear that U of DE is good as well).

I've had both work on my blades; I'd trust either, and so would my son, who's more finicky (and needs to be).

[Skate@Delaware]

I've had both work on my blades; I'd trust either, and so would my son, who's more finicky (and needs to be).
Yes, it's pretty much a toss-up for either....they are both good. I just go to SCW because Peter fixed my skates (long story) AND they have a pretty laid back adult session I can hit before I drive back home (1.5 hrs I'm NOT going to turn around and drive home without skating ;)).

[jp1andOnly]

i still don't get skating in the US. No wonder it costs so much to skate because you can skate freestyle on public sessions for cheaper so they have no choice but to charge an arm and a leg for freestyle specific ice.

[Icefrog]

At most of the rinks I've skated at and been to public is during the day. When I was in college the rink that we close to where I was living had empty public sessions during the week day when kids were in school. I was the only person there and they gave the the ipod cord like a normal freestyle BUT when school groups came in it was busy like a normal public session. Everyone skated around and around in a circle and there was no way I could do any figure skating moves.

I actually used the sessions to primarily work on moves since they were emptier and cheaper than the freestyle sessions I went to at the same rink there was just no coaching allowed BUT most people didn't have the amount of time off in the middle of the day like I did to go to them thats why they were so cheap.

[Purple Sparkly]

I see it was posted a year ago that Piney Orchard rink may be closing. I used to skate there quite a bit and Chuck Fox was the only one allowed to sharpen my blades. I have since moved away and decided I didn't need to travel 600 miles to have Chuck sharpen them... luckily we have someone here that is just as good.

If anybody has an update on Piney Orchard, that would be appreciated. I still skate there sometimes when I am in town, although Bowie will always be my "home" rink. I skated at Piney Orchard through many of their name changes... Piney Orchard Ice Forum, SkateNation at Piney Orchard, Piney Orchard Ice Rink.

[momsk8er]

Piney is open, and looks to be doing pretty well now.