Life of Blades....

[herniated]

Hi all, there seems to be a lot of blade talk recently. Well, I have another one. I bought my Pattern 99's last April 2008 and they seem to be almost 'done' so to speak. There is not much metal left on them. I have been wearing this style for at least 10 years and they usually last 2 to 3 years. And I have really only been skating on them for 9 months because last summer I didn't skate. And...I have been using the same guy to sharpen them for years and have not been skating more hours or getting more sharpenings. I skate 3 hours per week.

I think I know the answer to my question already. The question being how long should these things last? I have a sinking feeling that it is my guy has been taking off too much. I'm planning on having a conversation with him regarding this and how my blades have always lasted much longer. My DH wants me to try to get him (skate guy) to replace them - free.

Opinions?

[dbny]

I think you are right. He has been taking off too much. There is no way they should be gone yet. If you do have that conversation with him, you know you will have to find another sharpener if he refuses to replace the blades, but then, I guess you would want to do that anyway, if he doesn't think he is at fault and has no other plausible explanation.

If you don't mind, I would like to know who it is (PM me please), since I get my blades done in your neck of the woods. I was very unhappy with my last sharpening by my usual guy, and am switching. Don't want to jump from the frying pan into the fire though.

[doubletoe]

Mine typically last about 3 years as well, with a sharpening every 6 weeks.
It's quite possible that your sharpener is taking more off the blade with each sharpening, but part of that could be the need to remove nicks. That's what mine explained to me when I was trying to understand why I had blade left at the rocker but not at the back of the blade. He was right; I tend to nick the back of the blade with the other blade quite often, and he has to remove steel to remove the nick. But he also said he's noticed the blade manufacturers seem to be putting less steel (the blade part) on the blades at time of manufacture, so you now run out of blade with fewer sharpenings. If that's true, that's pretty clever.

[Rob Dean]

I had my first blade replacement last fall, so my former blades lasted about 4 years at an average of a sharpening every other month or so (there was one 8 month period when we stopped skating, the rest of the time every 4-6 weeks), so in the same ballpark as Doubletoe's experience.

[herniated]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your input and would like to hear more. Also, I like to replace my blades before they get down to NOTHING. I've done that before and then I have them for 3-4years but my skating suffers at that point. So now I usually replace 2 to 2 1/2 years.

I also emailed the blade manufacturer to get thier opinion. Like doubletoe said I was wondering if the manufacturer put less steel on thier products now. Hmmm.

[dbny]

Something I forgot to mention in my PM reply is that your sharpener restored the rocker on a pair of ancient Pat 99's for a friend of mine. She's been using them for over a year now since he did that, and he keeps on going with them past the usable area. She's fine with it.

[Query]

Some obvious questions:

1. How often do you get them sharpened?

2. Do you ever skate on outdoor ice? synthetic ice?

3. Do you walk with your blades off ice - e.g., on the floor outside the ice, without blade covers on?

4. Do you leave your skates in a closed bag or trunk, or under plastic balde covers, without wiping them dry first?

5. Have any of these things changed since your last blades?

[herniated]

Some obvious questions:

1. How often do you get them sharpened?

2. Do you ever skate on outdoor ice? synthetic ice?

3. Do you walk with your blades off ice - e.g., on the floor outside the ice, without blade covers on?

4. Do you leave your skates in a closed bag or trunk, or under plastic balde covers, without wiping them dry first?

5. Have any of these things changed since your last blades?

I get them sharpened every 6-8 weeks

Never skate on outdoor ice or synthetic

Never walk without guards on.

Always open the bag, take soakers off, take bag in house and they are dryed before leaving the rink.

And nothing has changed since last blades.

dbny-I know he doesn't stink but somethings wrong.

[Query]

Sounds like you've been a good girl and did everything right.

You may get credit for discovering a new species of steel-eating bacteria!

Interesting opening for a science fiction story. Imagine the consequences.

[xgskate]

I think somebody who has access to some lab should simply test the composite of the current blades and past ones to compare the amount of steel. Also, note that steel is not some element. Many alloys are steels. For different utility, there are different steels with different elements with different proportion and different process of making. It is simply not a well-defined statement to say that people put less steel in the blades. What makes steel hard is not the main element iron in it. It is other things and the processing of making the right crystal structure.

I am not an expert on commodity price, nor manufacturing. Not associated with any blade manufacturer either. Correct me if you are an expert. Following is my opinion:

Although the metal price has risen over years, the raw material cost for the amount of metal in a blade is really low, nor is the manufacturing cost much more significant for a high end blade than a low end one. The most significant difference in price between high end and low end blades is really the profit margin. I would certainly not think using lower quality steel in blades a clever business idea. But I don't have the means to check the facts.

I think the sharpener I worked with so far always wanted to remove every nick on my blades. I think that's not necessary, since I would make new nicks the next day anyway. But if they do so, the newly sharpened blades do look nicer.

[herniated]

I may be wrong but this seeeeemmmms to be taking on a saarrrrrcastic undertone. I may be reading between the lines. My objective here to get others experiences with the blades they are using. I do not understand the science behind metals nor do I care.

Personally I think my sharpening dude has been taking off too much. Just getting others experiences like I said before, before talking to him.

[icedancer2]

I don't know that much about the life of blades but I did once have the experience of going into my skate-shop after the first sharpening and having the guy say, "Oh, it looks like you need new blades - these are worn down - how about some Gold Seals?"

I was outraged - saw that half of the blade was gone and threatened to sue him if he didn't get me a new pair of blades, as he had obviously ruined them. I was quite horrible and he ordered a new pair.

When they came in, he look them out of the box and took off the rubbery-stuff right in front of me so that we could both see the new blades. The new blades also looked like they were half-gone. Neither of us said a word, he sharpened the new blades and I skated on them for years with normal sharpenings. I eventually had to get new blades because there was nothing left on these blades.

It was just the way they were.

I never went to that shop again because I was too embarassed by my behavior over the blades.

[xgskate]

No sarcasm intended and nothing between the lines intended.

I skated on $60 MK Club 2000 for like maybe a year or so. Sharpened every 6-8 weeks. I (150lbs) skated 4-6 hours or more a week with jumps and spins. When I took it off for an upgrade lately, it had 1/4 of the usable life left. I think it is supposed to last shorter than high end blades. There are two sharpening options, one is regular $5 one is pro $12 or $15. There's no noticeable difference in terms of skating between the regular and pro sharpening. But it seemed to me that the pro sharpening took off a lot more metal off the blades.

Make friends with your sharpener and talk about it. Maybe build some mutual understandings. It's not an easy job. I have used a file to make a flat surface on a piece of iron cylinder in high school, it was hard to get it just flat. I wouldn't try to ask a sharpener to replace my blades for free, well, unless she grinds it into two piece.

[herniated]

Thanks xg for the clarification. Idk, maybe I'm making a big deal out of this but at $480+ a pair...I don't want to replace at 9 mths.

And icedancer I would have FLIPPED out too if my dude said I needed new blades after the first sharpening. Especially if HE sold me the ones that were currently on my boots.

I have no intention of making a scene with the guy. We can talk pretty openly. If they need replacement I'll wait till after my next test then replace. I'm not going to fight with him. I may use someone else but will not make a scene.

[Query]

I wasn't being sarcastic either. Just having a little fun.

You got 5-7 sharpenings out of the blades. I can't imagine anyone competent removing that much metal, unless the blade is being reshaped (new rocker, new hollow, etc.). If he goes deep to remove deep nicks, I think he should warn you. (I assume you stay to watch it being sharpened, so he can't assign a less experienced person to do the job.) The blade cost adds $69-$96 to each sharpening! I couldn't afford it, and would have to switch sharpeners.

Of course ask the sharpener whether he has any idea what happened; it would be interesting to know what he says. Maybe he will claim the rink no longer distills the water that goes into the ice, and the ice is removing the metal? If you have no choice but to stay with him, you could ask him to remove no more than a few thousandths of an inch, no matter how deep the nicks.

BTW, are you down past the tempered part of the steel? If not, a good sharpener can remove or shorten the first toe pick tooth, and you can keep going a while.

Maybe in the future you can try to measure how much the (new?) sharpener is taking off each time. You can get a cheap depth gauge for $5-10. (I've never gone that far.)

You can hand sharpen yourself using
http://www.pro-filer.com
and do it the way the directions say (create a thin horizontal lip or burr, straighten it vertical into an edge), you only removes a few thousandths of an inch each time. It effectively creates very sharp edges. Since you are sharpening every 18-24 hours (very frequent), you must like it sharp. (Unless they don't distill the water, and they dredge it out of a very muddy pond.)

But you may not want to spend the time figuring out how to hand sharpen (5-10 minutes once you figure it out, but that takes some time, and you occasionally have to redo if you balanced the edges wrong).

[stardust skies]

Can you post a close-up picture of the blade so we can see how much is left on it?

[herniated]

Thanks Query. It's hard to tell sometimes with words alone the correct tone of what is being said. In additon to the fact that I do not know you. Thanks for the explanation. I'm also sensitive right now because I really cant' afford new blades.

Any how, I'm pretty sure he doesn't let anyone work on the blades. But ...I do not see him do it because he is like in a little room. I'm not past the tempered part of the steel it just seems like a lot has been taken off. And when you stated that I got 5-7 sharpenings out of them...that makes me even more upset to think of it in those terms.

I don't think I would EVER sharpen them myself. Uggh. I do have someone else in mind but I will go to my regular guy first to discuss the condition of the blades. + I have a test coming up in August and am not sure I want to change sharpeners right now never mind the blades.

Stardust skies - i will find out how to post a pic. dbny said she would help me in the past. I'm not very good at the technical.

[Skate@Delaware]

The pro-filer is really easy to use, once you get past the initial "OMG what if i mess it up" nervousness. Several people here on the board use one. Although it seems like it takes a lot off because you scootch it across your blade so many times, it's barely a dusting of metal that you see. It's handy because you sharpen on your own schedule. OTOH, if I had a nick in my blade, I'd have to take them to a pro.

[dbny]

I have a pro-filer that I can't use because it doesn't fit over the blade with the tape on it! It just rips the tape right off and can't be moved smoothly at all. In the past, DH sharpened DD's gold seals with one (different hollows, so we have two), but mine seems to have a problem. My coach bought one recently and also had a problem and returned his. I've emailed but have not gotten a response. When you call them, you always get an answering machine. I'm pretty :x with Edge Sports right now.

[katz in boots]

Sorry Herniated, hijacking the thread a little here.

I have a pro-filer that I can't use because it doesn't fit over the blade with the tape on it! It just rips the tape right off and can't be moved smoothly at all.

Interesting. I have a similar same problem with my Profiler. My blades are Ultima Freestyle Matrix system, really narrow. I started with 2 layers of tape, then after about the third sharpening found I had to reduce to one layer otherwise it wouldn't slide properly and would tear the tape.
And now I do them without any tape. Oddly, even though you'd think I'd be sharpening off centre, I'm getting a much better, longer lasting sharpening now.

I've tried them on another sort of blade, not a narrow one, and couldn't use tape at all. On my old phantoms I did use tape, and 2 layers towards the tapered end as per the instructions and it worked fine.

After one year of using it on my freestyles, the usable metal still looks as much as when new, and I haven't had to send them off to be sharpened professionally.

End of my hijack, now back to Herniated's problem.

[sk8tmum]

I do know that some blade manufacturers have had "bad" production runs where the quality of the steel and/or the hardening wasn't up to their usual standard. You might want to consider contacting the manufacturer to see if your blades are part of a known problem.

FWIW, Pattern 99 blades (and any other blades) should not be worn down that quickly. In terms of nicks, my DS is notorious for nicking his blades (badly) and the sharpener has to remove them - yet, after 2 years on Coro Comets, with sharpenings every 6 weeks, they are still usable (3 successive pairs with that experience). Granted, my sharpener is wicked good, but, I've never seen any sharpener take a blade down to needing a replacement that fast.

[herniated]

No problem Katz, lol. I just got an email from the manufacturer and they said to me to go back to my skate guy. And the Pattern 99 has not changed at all and if there is that little metal it is usually due to the sharpener.

If the skate guy has a prob he can contact them to try to work it out. So...off the my skate guy to see what's up.

[dbny]

And now I do them without any tape.

Doesn't that scratch up the sides of the blades? I thought that's why you needed the tape. If it doesn't, then I'll try it.

[Skate@Delaware]

Doesn't that scratch up the sides of the blades? I thought that's why you needed the tape. If it doesn't, then I'll try it.
I don't use the tape, it doesn't scratch it up as much as the guy sharpening your skates. Maybe trying scotch tape or some oil on the side of the blades but the tape was for tapered blades (so the runner wasn't wobbling). It's a pretty snug fit, oil might actually be a good idea.

Anyone looking for a way to "clean" their diamond stone-scrub it with a brass brush. Works pretty good.

[dbny]

I don't use the tape, it doesn't scratch it up as much as the guy sharpening your skates. Maybe trying scotch tape or some oil on the side of the blades but the tape was for tapered blades (so the runner wasn't wobbling). It's a pretty snug fit, oil might actually be a good idea.

Anyone looking for a way to "clean" their diamond stone-scrub it with a brass brush. Works pretty good.

The directions that came with my Pro-filer say to use tape, and say nothing about tapered blades in particular. But, thank you for the info - I'll go ahead and give it a try. It's not like I'm skating in shows and need sparkling blades.

[Query]

My blades are Ultima Freestyle Matrix system, really narrow.

There are several potential problems with the Pro-Filer and the Ultima Matrix interchangeable blade runner system. I find I can't do a good job of sharpening mine without taking them out of the mount cause the holder gets in the way. But the replaceable runners are held in by what I think are soft aluminum bolts, which are easily damaged during mount and dismount (both the hex key heads and the threads).

I assume you know that Jackson/Ultima no longer makes them - so if you like them, buy all the runners of the type and size you like while stores still have them in stock. Good idea to buy an extra set of bolts too, which you can still order from Jackson, last I knew. (AFAIK, no one else makes blade runners that fit the Matrix mount. Though Ultima makes similar blades that mount normally.)

Nonetheless, I like sharpening my own.

That said, many people don't agree with the way Pro-Filer says to sharpen.

Sid Broadbent, an engineer who sells sharpeners of his own design through of http://www.iceskateology.com, and who once got a grant from USFSA to do technical blade research, says their way makes no sense at all. He feels having that thin edge extend down into the ice must slow down the blades (not my experience, but my skating technique may be poor, I find the extra bite makes it easier to go fast). He says a proper sharpening need not remove any more metal than the pro-filer technique - if I remember right, once the blade has been sharpened once on a given wheel, you only need remove 2 or 3 thousandths of an inch each time after that, which is about what people who have measured Pro-Filer results have claimed for their technique.

I haven't used Pattern 99's, but if they have 1/8" of metal to use, that should be about 40-60 sharpenings.

In another thread, one of this forums real engineers, Rusty blades, didn't think the Pro-Filer sharpening technique was a good idea either

http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=28463&highlight=machine+shop+filer

To each their own.

Unfortunately none of this helps the O.P. I would love to know what the sharpener tells her.

[Skate@Delaware]

I assume you know that Jackson/Ultima no longer makes them - so if you like them, buy all the runners of the type and size you like while stores still have them in stock. Good idea to buy an extra set of bolts too, which you can still order from Jackson, last I knew. (AFAIK, no one else makes blade runners that fit the Matrix mount. Though Ultima makes similar blades that mount normally.)
They are still listing matrix blades on their website, maybe it's a "new improved" type??? As far as the bolts go, if you have a mechanical mind, I'm sure you can find a supply from somewhere that is made out of stainless steel instead of the aluminum (or have you done this already, you are pretty crafty at doing stuff like this).

My old coach said "what's old is new again" because she used to tell us about this very system that was popular when she was a child skater....until they were discontinued!

[dbny]

My old coach said "what's old is new again" because she used to tell us about this very system that was popular when she was a child skater....until they were discontinued!

I have a pair of old Russian skates with blades using the same system.

[katz in boots]

Oh dear Herniated, we really are on a Profiler thread running alongside yours now.

don't use the tape, it doesn't scratch it up as much as the guy sharpening your skates.

Mine are superficially scratched, but not badly

Anyone looking for a way to "clean" their diamond stone-scrub it with a brass brush. Works pretty good.

Thanks, been wondering how to clean it. Do you get a really narrow brush, or can you take the stone out?

There are several potential problems with the Pro-Filer and the Ultima Matrix interchangeable blade runner system. I find I can't do a good job of sharpening mine without taking them out of the mount cause the holder gets in the way

When I used tape it was a problem because the tape supplied was too wide. Using a much narrower tape allowed me to get deeper without bumping bolts.
And yes, I know they're discontinued, but don't plan to buy more. I want Phantoms, I miss my 7' rocker!

Out of interest, I had a go at my 20+ year old Phantoms again with the Profiler today. I used two layers of tape where the blade tapers, and one layer on the rest, and the profiler didn't snag at all. Can't understand why it snags on the much narrower freestyles.

[RachelSk8er]

I've noticed that since I switched to Ultimas about 6 yrs ago (from Wilsons), they seem to hold an edge much longer (I skate a lot less than I did as a teen/college student, but going by amount of hours on the ice between sharpenings). That makes the blades last a lot longer.

Either that or now that my uncle no longer works for a skate shop, I have to pay for sharpenings and I've therefore learned to skate on duller blades than I did as a kid/teenager! :lol: But I've heard other people say the same thing about Ultimas.

[herniated]

Ok, I've gotten a lot of opinions from my skating community contacts and it seems that this is probably sharpener error. One more opinion to get and that is my coach's tomorrow. He has already told me the right outside edge is higher that the left inside on my right blade. But we havn't talked about how much 'life' he thinks is left. Once I speak to him one more time then I will speak to the sharpener and make my decision from there. :frus:

[Query]

Huh. I have no idea how compatible the old Matrix and the new Matrix 2 runners are. Will ask someone who might know.

Ultima blades are stainless steel, which some people claim holds edges longer than the non-stainless high carbon steel used by MK and Wilson, perhaps because blades get wet.

[stardust skies]

The pro filer is meant for a touch-up between real sharpenings, not as a substitute for one.

Herniated- you can go to tinypic.com and upload whatever image you wish without having to register for an account. Just head to the page, click on that "browse" button which will bring you into your own computer. Locate where your picture files are saved, then click on one. I would suggest you click on where it says "resize - default" and select the "17" screen option" as it will yield a larger picture. After this you can click the green "UPLOAD NOW!" button. It will give you a URL when it is done, which you can then post here for us to look at. Don't worry, pictures are purged on that site after I believe 28 days, so it won't stay on here for all to see indefinitely.

[katz in boots]

The pro filer is meant for a touch-up between real sharpenings, not as a substitute for one.

The pro filer web site certainly indicates it can be a replacement for sharpening:

" Provides perfect edges anywhere, anytime
Saves money on skate sharpening, shipping and blades
No more "rounded off" heal
No more "shaved" toe picks
No more "holes" between spin rocker and toe pick
More uniform skate sharpening that maintains the skating and spin rocker, critical to performance "

My experience is one year without having to send them away for sharpening, so it works for me. I got sick of paying others to ruin my blades, and decided if anyone was going to ruin them, it may as well be me.:lol:

[SkatEn]

Huh. I have no idea how compatible the old Matrix and the new Matrix 2 runners are. Will ask someone who might know.

Ultima blades are stainless steel, which some people claim holds edges longer than the non-stainless high carbon steel used by MK and Wilson, perhaps because blades get wet.

Actually, not ALL Ultima blades are stainless. The composition of the Matrix 2 is similar to Paramount. However, while some blades (Elite, Freestyle, Supreme) have the E-X-T technology, they are not stainless steel. Legacy definitely is not stainless steel.

I do, however, support the statement that my Legacy held edges longer than MK blades.

OP, I hope you get the blades issue solved!

[stardust skies]

The pro filer web site certainly indicates it can be a replacement for sharpening:

" Provides perfect edges anywhere, anytime
Saves money on skate sharpening, shipping and blades
No more "rounded off" heal
No more "shaved" toe picks
No more "holes" between spin rocker and toe pick
More uniform skate sharpening that maintains the skating and spin rocker, critical to performance "


Oh weird! I remember years ago their own advertisements used to state that it was a "good replacement" for "between sharpenings" and so forth. Wonder if I'm confusing it with something else...I doubt it, but could be. Regardless if it's worked for you for a year then might as well stick with it. :D

[Query]

Oh weird! I remember years ago their own advertisements used to state that it was a "good replacement" for "between sharpenings" and so forth. Wonder if I'm confusing it with something else

It would take way too much time to use it to change hollow radius or make major blade shape modifications (like rocker diameter), or if you have let your blade go unsharpened for too long and it is mostly flat.

But because the hollow diameter is built in, you can use it through the lifetime of the blade. I'm told - no experience - that some other brands of sharpener are adaptable to different hollows, but that very adaptability means you can get undesirable hollow variation over different parts of the blade.

With regards to the claim you will not get a rounded off heel, shaved toe picks, holes between "spin rocker" (which I guess is the same as the "sweet spot") and toe pick, and that it maintains the skating and spin rockers - there is nothing to physically prevent you from messing up all those things, with Pro-Filer, or with machine sharpening tools. It's all a matter of taking care, which you may or may not trust your available commercial sharpening people to do. (Many commercial sharpening machines are designed to maintain a constant rocker, and do eliminate the spin rocker unless the sharpener knows to keep it.)

I used to gradually flatten the rocker, because I would start moving the Pro-Filer slow at one end, speed up in the middle (taking off more metal) and slow at the end, which also eliminated the sweet spot. And it did not occur to me at first to turn the blade around and brush again in the opposite direction, and a slight assymetry in the tool made one edge higher than the other. To maintain rocker shape, I now photocopy or trace a new blade, and occaisionally check to make sure the rocker doen't change. And I emphasize the sweet spot - effectively decreasing the spin rocker radius at the point I spin - to make spinning, twizzling and turning easier.

BTW, for those who scrape, there is a width adjustment screw in the Pro-Filer, but you need a tool I don't have to adjust it. I think tape is only needed if the blade is too thin for the tool, not to prevent scratches - only you would ever be close enough to notice cosmetic scratches on the parts of the blade that don't touch ice.

One Pro-Filer downside is they don't sell a 5/16" hollow tool, for those who want it. If you sharpen their way, so the thin edge penetrates the ice and creates the sideways pressure as much as the hollow curve does, the hollow isn't all that critical, so I use 3/8".

The Pro-Filer is over-priced for what it is ($72 + $15 shipping in the U.S.! - though the O.P. is paying about that for every sharpening, if you include blade life), and the handle is too large to see the blade while you sharpen, and it gets in the way with the Matrix blade mount system. And working with a sharp blade isn't safe for small children. But I still like the results better than going to someone else.

Anyway, most skaters eventually find a sharpener they are happy with, so hand sharpening tools aren't needed for them. Maybe the O.P. needs to shop around a little, and to ask who other skaters are happy with.

After 2 or 3 years of sharpening every few weeks, the Pro-Filer stones got clogged. I thought they needed to be replaced, but the brass brush idea never occurred to me.

Jackson (Ultima) says the Matrix 2 system does not have detachable runners - they may just be lighter and costlier ($500) versions of standard Ultima blades, though the person on the phone wasn't sure, and their web site isn't real informative. So no more $110 replacement runners, unless someone knows an alternative source.

[herniated]

Spoke with my coach today and he looked at my blades. He too feels there is way too much taken off considering how long I have them and how many times I've had them sharpened. Now to speak to the sharpener. Probably tomorrow. Uggh.

[katz in boots]

One Pro-Filer downside is they don't sell a 5/16" hollow tool, for those who want it.

Yes they do:
Available:
1/2" radius - moderate freestyle
3/8" radius - general freestyle
5/16" radius - aggresive freestyle or dance

Spoke with my coach today and he looked at my blades. He too feels there is way too much taken off considering how long I have them and how many times I've had them sharpened. Now to speak to the sharpener. Probably tomorrow. Uggh.

Eewww! It's never a pleasant prospect to take someone to task. I hope it goes well.

[HelenC]

herniated, I don't know if you are near Manhattan, or if you are ready to look for another sharpener for next time.

I would highly recommend Dave at West Side Skate and Stick:
http://www.wsskate.com/

Dave is very dedicated and scientifically minded and takes off very little material. After a sharpening yesterday, my blades feel perfect-
I was able to do all the stops, turns, jumps, spins and figures with no adjustment time.

Best wishes, HelenC

[dbny]

Helen & Herniated - I just had my blades sharpened today by someone new where I work, and also had a wonderful result. It was better than any sharpening I've ever had. LMK if you want the details.

Re the Pro-filer - I just got this email reply today:

"That is a new problem with the figure skate blades coming in with wider than normal tolerances. If you can get a micrometer measurement of your figure blades at the toe, middle and heal of each blade, we will be happy to machine your Pro-filer to fit.

Sorry for the inconvenience. This is simply something happens from time to time with metal materials. We look forward to assisting you."

My only problem with this is that if blade width is going to vary like that, then why should I have spent so much money on a gizmo that has to be machined to fit each pair of blades? I have 2 pair of new blades in reserve, so I guess I'll measure them too, and see if I should go ahead.

[herniated]

herniated, I don't know if you are near Manhattan, or if you are ready to look for another sharpener for next time.

I would highly recommend Dave at West Side Skate and Stick:
http://www.wsskate.com/

Dave is very dedicated and scientifically minded and takes off very little material. After a sharpening yesterday, my blades feel perfect-
I was able to do all the stops, turns, jumps, spins and figures with no adjustment time.

Best wishes, HelenC

Thanks HelenC. I'm not near Manhattan but it's good to know. Damn I've been thinking of going to NJ to get them done.

[herniated]

Update. I just came back from my sharpener and I got the distinct feeling one of my contacts told him how I felt. I don't believe it was any one of you guys on the forum because none of you use him except patatty and she wouldn't do that. (((Hello patatty))) I think it was someone on my email list who uses him.

Anyway, I walked in and his mom asked me if there was anything wrong with the blades. (they were tipped off) My approach was that I wanted to know how much life I had left on my blades because I want to switch out to dance blades. blah, blah,blah. So he told me I have till next year, maybe till February 2010. Not quite two years old. He stated that my blades look a lot better ect since doing dance and that he would be very careful not to take off too much in the future (tipped off) so that they would last me a while. Then he went into the evils of dance blades with the shorter heels. Whatever.

Basically, I'm in these blades till they are done. I did address the problem still with the right blade. He said that I'm getting stronger and adjusting. What?!!EVER. Getting stronger does NOT mean slipping on an inside edge. duh.

Thanks all for your input and I will be trying someone else within the next couple of weeks.

[dbny]

That's just rotten that someone tipped him off. It made it impossible for you to get an honest response. Not really fair to either you or your sharpener. As far as the problem with the R blade ...8O. Yeah, if you're strong and an elite skater, you can manage with almost anything, no matter how messed up it is :roll:.

[herniated]

:lol:I'm certainly not an elite skater but I'm dealing with the Right blade now for 4mths. AND he tried to fix it once before. I think I know who tipped him off. I will find out eventually..this kind of stuff always slips out.

I could be wrong too about the whole 'tipped' off thing. But probably not.

[icedancer2]

It sounds like they were just waiting for you to come in.

Funny about the evils of dance blades - I would be the first to tell you that they are no big deal - the backs that is - what bothers me about them is the lack of picks - on the MKs that is... but the blade guys never think about that - they just think about how short the backs are and freak out!:roll:

[herniated]

Thanks for the warning about the lack of toe picks. Another poster on another thread commented on that. I haven't had small picks for years now but I'm willing to make the adjustment for more efficient ice dancing. lol.

[icedancer2]

REally might be worth looking into the Super Dance 99 or the Ultima Dance - they have better picks (IMHO than the MKs) - I have skated on the Super Dance 99 and they are great! Great flow and nice nice blade.

[Mrs Redboots]

And I'm going to love the Dance99s when I'm used to having a rocker again! My last blades had been skated flat.....

[herniated]

Update..just got back from my new sharpener. He said the right blade was uneven. The right outside edge was higher than the inside..just like my coach said that's why I'm slipping. Not getting stronger as my last dude said. DDUUUUHHHH. 8O

He changed the radius of hollow to 5/16. Fine. Said my turns will be better. And he also said I've got 6mths. Nice. He feels too much was taken off. Nice. Anyway, this guy was VERY pleasant and super nice. I got wicked lost finding his place and he came to find me! Thank god I was with a friend and we laughed our A$$es off over the whole thing. She said to me 'Can't you take up a sport like tennis so you don't have to travel all over the place?' It was hysterical.:lol: Then I had to get gas after this whole fiasco and the sharpening dude now believing we were two incompetants said, 'I'll drive you to a station and point you in the right direction home'. I rolled down my window to thank him and instinctually blew him a thank you kiss!!:frus: Now the guy probably thinks i'm hitting on him. And you know what I really don't care right now!! Now I'm in my husband's crap box car and can't get the gas cap open (the little door) so I had to punch it to open it. It is now eternally broken. And you know what...I don't care. lol

I'll let you all know Monday after I skate on them how they are. Thanks all for listening and sharing.

[katz in boots]

Can't wait to hear how you go! Fingers crossed your problems are over!

[aussieskater]

Good luck and I hope the blades are now right. It's certainly taken its toll in time and stress on you!

[herniated]

So, I skated today and the blades were great!! :)I had more 'glide'so to speak and it is a bit of an adjustment as my new guy said but for the better. I've gotten so used to adjusting for slipping off that inside edge that it is an adjustment to have it back again. :x But it is much better, much,much better.

Thanks all and I've kept all of your other contacts just in case for the future!!

[doubletoe]

OH, THANK GOODNESS!! :bow:

[herniated]

Thanks Doubletoe, it was even b..e..t..t..e..r today. My coach does all sorts of ice dance exercises and I was actually able to like do them! I felt more confident.

Of course I can't explain the disaster of a Swing Dance I skated with him today but that is another story.:lol: He said on the end pattern where he is doing the mohawk I kind of went the 'other' way and left him so to speak. He said, it was like I was saying, "I'm done with you!! Idon't care what you are doing;)" So funny he is. Of course we were laughing over this.:lol: The Cha Cha was great though. No problems there.

[dbny]

Of course I can't explain the disaster of a Swing Dance I skated with him today but that is another story.:lol: He said on the end pattern where he is doing the mohawk I kind of went the 'other' way and left him so to speak.

Yeah, I don't think you can remotely blame that on the blades :lol:.

[herniated]

No :lol: I can't. But it was a very funny moment!

[Query]

Watch some videos of test sessions. Most couples seperate a bit at that point, even the ones who pass, whereas the pattern appears to show they should stay together.

Seems to me that if a dance is designed right, it should be close to the way people move naturally. I took a short course for exercise (e.g., aerobics) instructors - the teacher emphasized you should choreograph for smooth transitions between moves. Maybe ice dances should be designed for easy motion too.

One architectural design approach paves no paths at first. Instead, they pave the places people wear out the grass. Likewise, patterns and tricks could be redrawn and redesigned to be the way most people actually move. :lol:

[Mrs Redboots]

Watch some videos of test sessions. Most couples seperate a bit at that point, even the ones who pass, whereas the pattern appears to show they should stay together.Well, the couples are in shoulder-hold at that point, so it's actually quite difficult to separate. What is awkward is getting your Mohawk to mirror-image your partner's - I know I don't yet push hard enough into it, so my Mohawk isn't quite on the right place on the ice, and we have to fudge a bit to get the RBO/LFO going straight up the rink as it should. Which, in turn, affects the placing of the LBO/RFO swing roll, and thus into the restart. Sigh.

[Query]

Well, the couples are in shoulder-hold at that point, so it's actually quite difficult to separate. What is awkward is getting your Mohawk to mirror-image your partner's

Either I'm confused, or you are thinking of another dance than me. I'm thinking of the pre-bronze "Swing Dance", http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/JP_DN-Swing%20Dance.pdf, or with more comments (in the roller pattern), http://www.uq.net.au/~zzbarneg/sk_swdance_fox.htm, which a little birdie told me the USFSA may soon replace with something Alexei Kiliakov is writing.

If I have the right dance, the forward mohawk, steps 12-13, is not simultaneous with the other partner's backwards mohawk (if you can call it that), steps 24-25.

So why do they have to mirror image? Unless you mean the end patterns at both ends of the rink (with opposte partners doing the forwards and backwards mohawks) should match, as a matter of form.

They are hand in hand, not shoulder-held.

Anyway, I'm off-topic again.

[herniated]

In that first end pattern the man does the mohawk and the lady does forward 'steps' so to speak. They do seperate the shoulder hold but keep holding right hand(lady) to left hand(man). What I did on this end pattern was step 'away' from him, kind of pulling him. He said I should kind of step toward him so he can get around me to go backwards.

I stepped away from him so much that I was holding on to his fingertips!! LMAO. Ooops.

[Mrs Redboots]

So why do they have to mirror image? Unless you mean the end patterns at both ends of the rink (with opposte partners doing the forwards and backwards mohawks) should match, as a matter of form.

They are hand in hand, not shoulder-held.

Anyway, I'm off-topic again.That is what I meant. And I'm sorry, but here they are in shoulder-hold, and you would be failed if you did them hand-in-hand! Oh, and we do it far faster than you do in the USA - we do it to the Rocker Foxtrot music.

[dbny]

Seems to me that if a dance is designed right, it should be close to the way people move naturally.

Well, that would be the first thing about skating that is natural! :lol::lol::lol: