Issues after changing skates

[SkatEn]

I went from Klingbeil S2 with Ultima Legacy to Risport Super Nova (old series, one step above super Cristallo, which roughly is RF3, I think) with MK Gold Stars.

Before changing, I had centered fast scratch, centered backspin, usually centered fast sit, beginning of a camel (4 to 5 rev) that is getting better, started backsit which has about 5 rev. I started working on Axel. I didn't like toe-loop, but it's okay. Flip was getting much better and lutz was okay, not excellent. Loop was the best jump.

Now, these are my issues.

My sit spin is travelling a lot, in a circle.
Whenever I do flip or lutz, I cringe because the big toe will hit the front of the boot, hard.
Loop's timing is off, a lot, and then landing feels different too.
I've lost the feeling of camel - I can't hook and spin. Sometimes I go over, sometimes I just can't start the spin. I rock a lot in the spin.
Backspin has lost some wind, so now backsit is about 3 rev.
Waltz feels like it's off timing.


Are those stuff that will be better over time? It has been about 2 weeks, I think.

The pain that I mentioned in where bunions form is gone on the left foot, but the right foot just experience a slight pressure, no pain (I changed socks to nylons, and not thin cotton socks). Nonetheless, there seem to be a bump on where bunions grow. What do I do?

Is it normal to get a blister on the side of the big toe? I got it on the left foot, which seemed very odd to me.

I'm not tying the forefoot area tight because I'm not sure if it will put pressure on the side of the foot (cause bunion), but could it be the reason why my foot moves forward to hit the front of the toebox? It doesn't touch, otherwise.

Note: Punching out is not an option. There is no one with the tools. Any DIY alternative will be appreciated!

Thanks on any help!

[Query]

Since you are a much higher level skater than me I can't possibly comment on specific moves. But if your feet are sliding around inside, of course they are hard to control. If there is space to slide, there are precious milliseconds when you can not control what the boot and blade are doing by applying pressure. This is self-evident intuitive physics.

The fit problems sound like those a good boot fitter (for ice or roller skates, work boots, or hiking boots) or podiatrist should be able to correct.

Your first choice, if you bought the boots at a store, is to go and see what they can do. If you can drive/fly back to the factory (I'm not sure Risport does this) can they help? Either way, call the manufacturer, and see if they have any suggestions.

Is it normal to get a blister on the side of the big toe?... my foot moves forward to hit the front of the toebox?

It is not "normal" to get sores, bunions, blisters, etc. as a result of using any well-fit shoe or boot. Unless you have an unusual medical condition, you should be comfortable inside your boots (excapt they are are tighter, and stiffer than normal shoes, especially against sideways bending), and shouldn't produce anything on your feet you can see or feel.

Such problems almost always comes from poor skate fit, or a reaction to the materials in the skate, though some people have skin that is more sensitive than others.

Blisters usually come from something that slides against your skin, possibly worsened by problems with excess moisture or sensitivity to materials. No motion should occur inside a skating boot. (Exception: your ankle needs to bend forward and back as you skate. Some skaters, mostly ice dancers, also like to bend a bit side-to-side at the ankle.)

Note: Punching out is not an option. There is no one with the tools. Any DIY alternative will be appreciated!

Nonsense. Buy and use a ball and ring pliers. On Ebay, these are advertised as "bunion stretchers". If you can't wait, and money is no object, podiatrists, and people who sell "diebetic shoes" normally have them on hand. (Warning: some podiatrists and especially diebetic shoe fitters may try to make them fit too loose, unless you warn them otherwise.)

Another alternative, is to remove the insole to make more space, then add in tape and moleskin or other adhesive padding until everything feels perfect.

See http://mgrunes.com/boots.html

[doubletoe]

Now, these are my issues.

My sit spin is travelling a lot, in a circle.
Whenever I do flip or lutz, I cringe because the big toe will hit the front of the boot, hard.
Loop's timing is off, a lot, and then landing feels different too.
I've lost the feeling of camel - I can't hook and spin. Sometimes I go over, sometimes I just can't start the spin. I rock a lot in the spin.
Backspin has lost some wind, so now backsit is about 3 rev.
Waltz feels like it's off timing.


The flip and lutz problems definitely point to poor boot fit. Either the boots are just too big overall, or they are too wide in front, or they are too wide in the heel.

With the sitspin, it could be the stiffness of the boot preventing you from getting a deep enough knee bend (which, in turn, keeps your entrance edge from curving around enough to center your spin). It could also be a matter of getting used to the rounder rocker on your new blades.

I also have brand new MK Gold Stars and I think the rest of your issues are probably just a matter of getting used to your new blades:

1. Loop timing - Point toes harder on takeoff, and push heel down on landing to get outflow and get weight off the ball of the landing foot.

2. Waltz (or axel) takeoff - Also point toes harder on takeoff. The rocker is rounder so it will take longer for you to roll all the way up to your toepick for takeoff.

3. Backspin - You will get it back as you get used to finding the sweet spot on the new blades.

4. Camel spin - Just like the waltz takeoff, the rounder rocker affects how long it takes to roll up to the toepick and hook the spin. Get a really deep knee bend on the entrance, wait longer, come up more slowly into the spin and stay really level the whole time.

[SkatEn]

It is not "normal" to get sores, bunions, blisters, etc. as a result of using any well-fit shoe or boot. Unless you have an unusual medical condition, you should be comfortable inside your boots (excapt they are are tighter, and stiffer than normal shoes, especially against sideways bending), and shouldn't produce anything on your feet you can see or feel.
I don't think that blisters etc are such a abnormality. It's just that it's the first time at the toe, but it'll be gone anyway, thanks.:)

Such problems almost always comes from poor skate fit, or a reaction to the materials in the skate, though some people have skin that is more sensitive than others.

Blisters usually come from something that slides against your skin, possibly worsened by problems with excess moisture or sensitivity to materials. No motion should occur inside a skating boot. (Exception: your ankle needs to bend forward and back as you skate. Some skaters, mostly ice dancers, also like to bend a bit side-to-side at the ankle.)

My feet are not identical. I have to accommodate the wider right foot, which happens to be slightly longer too. Thus my left foot has some space.

I know people say to leave the top notch untied when breaking in. I only have 3 notches, so what do I do? Do I lace normally for the rest of the boot?

Nonsense. Buy and use a ball and ring pliers. On Ebay, these are advertised as "bunion stretchers". If you can't wait, and money is no object, podiatrists, and people who sell "diebetic shoes" normally have them on hand. (Warning: some podiatrists and especially diebetic shoe fitters may try to make them fit too loose, unless you warn them otherwise.)
http://shop.ebay.com.sg/items/__bunion-stretcher_W0QQLHQ5fAvailToZ180?_trksid=p3286.m63.l 1177
As you can see... what's the likelihood of that fitting in my skates? Not likely. I did ask my podiatrist about the fit of my first pair, about two years back. He's Aussie, and he did skating, but told me to go look for someone who's a pro at figure skates. So, yes. I don't have an option. I did try to use this tool(wrench? plier?) to stretch, but didn't work :lol:.
Thanks, anyway. :)

The flip and lutz problems definitely point to poor boot fit. Either the boots are just too big overall, or they are too wide in front, or they are too wide in the heel.

Yeah, the right boot isn't very snug at the heel. Oh well, I guess I'll have to do some trial and error tying the next time I skate. :)

With the sitspin, it could be the stiffness of the boot preventing you from getting a deep enough knee bend (which, in turn, keeps your entrance edge from curving around enough to center your spin). It could also be a matter of getting used to the rounder rocker on your new blades.

I also have brand new MK Gold Stars and I think the rest of your issues are probably just a matter of getting used to your new blades:

1. Loop timing - Point toes harder on takeoff, and push heel down on landing to get outflow and get weight off the ball of the landing foot.

2. Waltz (or axel) takeoff - Also point toes harder on takeoff. The rocker is rounder so it will take longer for you to roll all the way up to your toepick for takeoff.

3. Backspin - You will get it back as you get used to finding the sweet spot on the new blades.

4. Camel spin - Just like the waltz takeoff, the rounder rocker affects how long it takes to roll up to the toepick and hook the spin. Get a really deep knee bend on the entrance, wait longer, come up more slowly into the spin and stay really level the whole time.
I hope so! How long did you take to get used to it? I'm very frustrated. A poor workman blames his tools. I am doing it!

[aussieskater]

http://shop.ebay.com.sg/items/__bunion-stretcher_W0QQLHQ5fAvailToZ180?_trksid=p3286.m63.l 1177
As you can see... what's the likelihood of that fitting in my skates? Not likely.


I agree that the wooden shoe tree won't work, but I think this http://cgi.ebay.com/Bunion-Stretcher-Bull-and-Ring-Cast-Iron-NEW_W0QQitemZ370185933362QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Men _s_Shoes?hash=item5630cd1232&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 was more similar to the tool Query was talking about?

Good luck with it anyway - I hope you can get some help for your boots.

[Query]

aussieskater got the pliers I meant right. Here is another similar pliers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOKE-BALL-BUNION-Shoe-Stretcher-FREE-Liquid-Stretch_W0QQitemZ190211119451QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU _Women_Shoes?hash=item2c4977595b&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

I did try to use this tool(wrench? plier?) to stretch, but didn't work

It is harder to stretch thick high level skates than thin shoes, so try the combinations of time, pressure, stretching fluid and re-tightening I suggested here:

http://mgrunes.com/BootPain.html

Maybe your wooden tool would work too, with similar conditions.

I don't think that blisters etc are such a abnormality.

Maybe "not normal" is the wrong wording. Lots of skaters accept pain and foot problems, because they don't know than can modify the fit to get rid of them.

My feet are not identical. I have to accommodate the wider right foot, which happens to be slightly longer too. Thus my left foot has some space.

Not if you fill the space with adhesive padding (tape, moleskin, etc.) Same is true for the loose heel.

Many people have slightly mismatching foot sizes. No big deal, if you compensate. If you ordered the boots to fit you (with custom sizing, or a "split fit", if Risport does that), you might not have needed to do even that.

I know people say to leave the top notch untied when breaking in. I only have 3 notches, so what do I do?

It might still be a good idea, if you have a tight fit at the top of your boot.

Lacing is individual, like fit. I like it very tight everywhere. I still leave the top hook unlaced, because there isn't any extra space in front of or behind the top part of my foot, so not lacing the top makes it easier to bend my foot forward and back. People who have that extra space (which I hate, because it speeds break-down) may want to use the top hook, even after break-in.

Some people try to compensate for extra tight places on the boot by leaving it loose at the height of the tight spot. To isolate one height of the lace from the other heights, they tie an extra overhand cross over above at the margin, or use lace lock loops (metal ring pairs, the lace weaves around).

It is especially common to leave the height around the ankle bend loose, so it bends easier. (Another alternative is to get hinged boots, which I haven't tried.)

Personally I'd rather make everything fit right than play with lacing tricks. And I selectively broke in the ankle bend part a little more, so the laces don't need to be loose there. Loose laces and space inside the boot creates rapid break-down, and sometimes creates blisters.

I did ask my podiatrist about the fit of my first pair, about two years back. He's Aussie, and he did skating, but told me to go look for someone who's a pro at figure skates.

What?? I don't get it. He knows more about modifying shoes and boots than most skate boot fitters. OK, skates need to be tighter, and external orthosis don't work the same way (because there is a single point of contact with the ice, rather than the planar contact a normal shoe sees, and skate soles are more rigid). But if you tell him what you want stretched, I would think he should have all the knowledge he needs. And if there is something special about collapsing arches, pronation, supination, or bone/joint alignment, he is definitely the qualified expert. Maybe he just thought it would be cheaper for you to use a skating pro, or he didn't want to tie up his stretching tools for the time it might take to get everything right.

Can he recommend a pro?

[SkatEn]

I'm almost definitely getting a bunion on the right foot.

It sucks. I like my (soon-to-be-previous) pretty feet.:frus:

ouch. Skaters, do you feel that gel pads help bunions/other pain spots? or is it better to do without it?

I found a way to "lock" the heel - tie before the first hook and then continue lacing! Gotta make it just right though.

[doubletoe]

I hope so! How long did you take to get used to it? I'm very frustrated. A poor workman blames his tools. I am doing it!

For me, the thing that took the longest to get used to with new blades was the backspin. The forward spins didn't take as long (a week or two, max), but I still have to sometimes remind myself to stay deeply bent in the knee & ankle going into sitspins and camel spins, and also to stay really level on the camel spin entry. I have now skated on these blades about 35 hours.

I'm wondering if it might help to get your blade mounting double checked on your left skate as well. It's possible that it is not mounted quite right and that is making it difficult to get a good entrance edge on your camel and sit spins. But if it's just the camel and sit and your upright spin is fine, then first just try unlacing one more hook at the top of your boot so that you can get enough ankle and knee bend.