Fear of jumping

[Nikki719]

I'm 23 and I started taking skating lessons 5 months ago. I took lessons when I was a kid for 2 years but didn't get past freestyle 1. Now, I'm working on freestyle 2 but I'm getting frustrated with my jumping fear.

I don't know how to just go for it. I haven't learnt a full rotation jump yet but I'm itching to get one. I've been working on my waltz despite having some anxiety over them - I have trouble coordinating the bent knee take off with the straight, reaching free leg. I often end up bending the knee on the free leg. I barely get off the ice.

I learnt a half flip a month ago and that is what has made me so eager to do a full rotation jump. The flip comes so much more naturally to me than the waltz. I got really comfortable going into it with speed and using my toe pick and feeling the height that I dont get in my waltz. Sometimes, when I'm practicing by myself, I want to just attempt a full rotation and see what happens. But I'm sure there are things you learn between a half flip and a full flip and I don't want to try it if I'm just going to discourage myself b/c I haven't officially learnt it.

I have done some off-ice and I can consistently do 1 and a 1/4 rotation two foot jumps, and 1 rotation single-foot landing jumps. Sometimes I ditch sideways on the landings.

Can anyone help me out with this? I would bring it up with my coach but I only lesson 30 mins per week and we have been working on spins, edges etc..

[doubletoe]

The backspin and loop jump will teach you how to rotate backward over your picking/landing leg on the flip jump, so see if you can start working on the backspin (if you haven't already).

[kander]

Try looking at the problem from a different perspective. Instead of working on jumps, you work on your fear (using jumps). You have to conquer the fear before you can learn a jump.

Kevin

[BatikatII]

Have you learned the toe-loop and salchow yet? Most people learn those before the Flip as they are considered easier jumps.

The salchow is probably a good one to help get over the fear of jumping as it sort of just continues round so if you don't get all the way round it doesn't seem as scary as not getting round in a flip would be.

If you like the toe-pick jumps then the toe-loop is usually an easier one to just go for than the flip.

I never learned a half flip and am not sure what it is so can't tell you what progression uses these. We learned the waltz jump first and then the salchow and toe-loop together.

It took me years to pluck up courage to jump and I did dance for that reason but now I love jumps even if I'm not very good at them.

[londonicechamp]

Hi Nikki719

If you are afraid of jumping, maybe you could practise near the barrier, so that you have something to hold onto, in case you fall. (That is: you are afraid of jumps coz you fear that you may fall.)

I watched another girl's coach teaching her half flip when I went for my ice skating practice this morning. I think that what I saw is a half flip. I will ask my coach tomorrow.

I also like toe loops. :D Well, for salchows, I cannot do a full rotation jump without any guidance from the coach.

Have you tried the bunny hop. They are fun to learn and practice on too. :)

londonicechamp

[Rusty Blades]

I wrecked really badly on jumps when I was 19. When I came back to skating at 57, it took me a LONG time to even consider it!

(I am not there yet LOL!)

[Elly86]

I know how you feel, I'm 23 and when I started skating again last year I was afraid to jump. For me, time and practice and becoming comfortable with a jump eased the fear of it. Now I don't think about it as much. Off-ice practice is great too, it will help with muscle memory. Try to take a deep breath before you jump, take your time, and try not to get frustrated. Good luck!

[Audryb]

I second the suggestion of learning a salchow and a toe loop. There really is a progression to the jumps. I learned a waltz first, like most people do, but the forward takeoff is scary. I didn't get the courage to really JUMP the waltz till I started landing the sal and toe. Somehow the easier backwards take off gets you (or me at least) more used to jumping, and then the waltz is more about the takeoff and the jump part isn't as intimidating.

Also, as far as the flip, for me there is a world of difference between the half flip and the flip. I actually prefer the full rotation jump, but I don't think I'd have been able to do it before I learned the loop. I think elements of the salchow and loop are both important to learn before attempting the flip. You can just sort of fling yourself into a sal and get around, but once you learn to control the takeoff (including arms!), it is similar to the control you need for the flip takeoff. And the upper body motion and the full rotation that you learn for the loop are important if you're going to get the full rotation on the flip.

I think there is more to the traditional order the jumps are taught than just one being harder than another. Ask your coach to teach you the salchow and/or the toe-loop and see how that goes.

[doubletoe]

I agree that the salchow would be a good jump for you to learn because it's a lot like the waltz jump but takes off backward instead of forward and also creates a little more rotation for you with the takeoff edge. But the best exercise to learn to take off and land safely is the bunny hop. Take off from left foot, pointing the toes as you jump straight up off the left foot. Land on right toe and push off forward onto the left foot. This will teach you to point your toes as you take off and land, which is VERY important for EVERY jump, since it prevents you from slipping off your blades.

[Nikki719]

I watched another girl's coach teaching her half flip when I went for my ice skating practice this morning. I think that what I saw is a half flip. I will ask my coach tomorrow.


londonicechamp

The half flip is when you enter as if you were going to do a full flip but then you only do half a rotation so you end up landing forward on your left foot. It is really awkward to land forward as you do in a bell-waltz and ballet jump, but I like the backwards takeoff with the toe-pick assist.

[Nikki719]

I second the suggestion of learning a salchow and a toe loop. There really is a progression to the jumps. I learned a waltz first, like most people do, but the forward takeoff is scary. I didn't get the courage to really JUMP the waltz till I started landing the sal and toe. Somehow the easier backwards take off gets you (or me at least) more used to jumping, and then the waltz is more about the takeoff and the jump part isn't as intimidating.

Also, as far as the flip, for me there is a world of difference between the half flip and the flip. I actually prefer the full rotation jump, but I don't think I'd have been able to do it before I learned the loop. I think elements of the salchow and loop are both important to learn before attempting the flip. You can just sort of fling yourself into a sal and get around, but once you learn to control the takeoff (including arms!), it is similar to the control you need for the flip takeoff. And the upper body motion and the full rotation that you learn for the loop are important if you're going to get the full rotation on the flip.

I think there is more to the traditional order the jumps are taught than just one being harder than another. Ask your coach to teach you the salchow and/or the toe-loop and see how that goes.

I just learned the salchow last week although I haven't had anymore time to practice it. I haven't learnt the loop yet. I got the footwork down for the salchow but I was barely able to get off the ice.

I think my problem with taking off for the waltz and sal is b/c I have compartment syndrome in my lower legs. Thats where the fascia surrounding the muscles doesn't stretch when the muscles expand resulting in the blood flow being cut off. Ever since I developed this I've been unable to dorsiflex my feet. So when I take off for the waltz and sal, I'm not completely on the ball of the foot on my skating leg.

I'm not sure how I will overcome this but I think the fear is stemming from being aware that I'm trying to take off from the middle of my foot.

[doubletoe]

OK, if you can't point your feet as you take off and land, then you SHOULD be afraid to jump! You cannot jump or land safely on ANY jump without pointing your toes because you will be on the flat of the blade--not the bottom toepick--and it's too easy to slip and fall. Do you have a doctor helping you with this and is there anything you can do to improve your condition?

[Nikki719]

OK, if you can't point your feet as you take off and land, then you SHOULD be afraid to jump! You cannot jump or land safely on ANY jump without pointing your toes because you will be on the flat of the blade--not the bottom toepick--and it's too easy to slip and fall. Do you have a doctor helping you with this and is there anything you can do to improve your condition?

I can point my feet really well, I can't flex them upwards. So for example, if I'm going into a waltz, bending the knee on my takeoff leg requires more flexion of the foot and ankle upwards to support the knee and hip. It's the same kind of flexion required by a squat. But my ankle does not flex enough in that way. So in that bent knee position, I can't roll onto the ball off my foot. Instead I get stuck between the middle of my foot and my heel, which makes taking off for the jump really difficult.

The only treatment for it is surgical for those who do not want to give up their sports. They cut the fascia on both legs so that the muscle has room to expand. Leaves very nasty scarring. But I can't justify that horrific surgery when I'm just a recreational skater.

[Thin-Ice]

The half flip is when you enter as if you were going to do a full flip but then you only do half a rotation so you end up landing forward on your left foot. It is really awkward to land forward as you do in a bell-waltz and ballet jump, but I like the backwards takeoff with the toe-pick assist.

The half-flip is landed on the left toe pick, but then you immediately put down your right foot on a FRI edge. Don't try to land it going forward on just the left edge!

[katz in boots]

But the best exercise to learn to take off and land safely is the bunny hop. Take off from left foot, pointing the toes as you jump straight up off the left foot. Land on right toe and push off forward onto the left foot. This will teach you to point your toes as you take off and land, which is VERY important for EVERY jump, since it prevents you from slipping off your blades.

8ONoooooo!!!!!!!!!! Not the bunny hop!!!!!!!! 8O
Yes, I know thousands of skaters have survived bunny hops, as did I.
I remain scared of them to this day.

I agree that an inability to get onto the ball of the foot would make things more complicated, and thus toe-assisted jumps would probably be easier for you - at least initially. There comes a point though where you need to be able to push up correctly with toe-loops and flips though.

The half-flip is landed on the left toe pick, but then you immediately put down your right foot on a FRI edge. Don't try to land it going forward on just the left edge!

That's how I was originally taught it, however our skate school teaches to land on the same pick as the toe assist to get them used to landing on the same foot for the full flip. So for a CCW the toe pick & landing would be on the right foot immediately onto a LFI edge.

[RachelSk8er]

It's not just a beginner/new skater thing. I started skating as a toddler, HATED jumping (actually I hated spinning more), so I did synchro from the time I was 10 until I was 27, quit freestyle when I was 12 and did dance and moves. I started freestyle again at 27 yrs old and jumping scared the living crap out of me. I got over it (except for axels, the forward takeoff still freaks me out, and I have fears of belly flopping on flying camels...even though I very, very, very rarely fall on either of those), and I suppose when I get my axel consistent and start working on doubles I'll be chicken sh!t again.

Practicing off-ice is probably the best thing you can do. Once you're confident with the way the jump feels off-ice, then take it on the ice. If you're afraid of falling and hurting yourself, try wearing some knee pads and wrist guards at first until you get the confidence. Don't be afraid of falling, I and most people who have been skating a while will tell you that our worst injuries have not come from jumping, they come from unexpected stupid falls, like tripping over your toepicks and slamming down on your kneecaps, catching a rut and twisting a knee, leaning back too far while standing totally still and landing hard on your tailbone, or catching a blade in your pant leg and getting tangled.

I'm seriously considering wearing some of my roller derby equipment on the ice one day to work on my axel and flying camel. Both lack the aggression I need to get them consistent, and maybe if I have some knee/elbow pads and wrist guards, I'll get over whatever odd fear I have and channel the aggression I have in roller derby (where I tend to goof off and do incredibly dumb things on roller skates with no fear).

[Thin-Ice]

That's how I was originally taught it, however our skate school teaches to land on the same pick as the toe assist to get them used to landing on the same foot for the full flip. So for a CCW the toe pick & landing would be on the right foot immediately onto a LFI edge.

Interesting concept and sounds like an excellent technique.. but then it's not actually a half-flip, since the definition for a CCW half-flip is left toe pick and immediately to RFI edge.

[Isk8NYC]

The ISI LTS program requires that the half flip land on the opposite foot from the picking foot. (That's my preference as I was an ISI skater)
The USFSA Basic Skills program doesn't specify which foot to land on going forward. Either landing is correct under USFSA.
I've used the same-foot landing as a drill for skaters just learning a flip.

Most BS skaters can do the same-foot landing easily enough, but I teach them the change-foot version as well.
It usually matches their preferred bunny hop, so it's not too bad.

I've never seen a document that calls the same-foot landing anything other than a half-flip; you just wouldn't get credit under ISI if a judge noticed it.

The half flip is taught as the first half jump because it teaches the skater control of edges, toe-assist picking, and checks.
The progression is to teach the Toe Loop as the first full rotational jump, although some coaches have been teaching the Loop jump first lately.

In any case, I wouldn't recommend self-teaching yoursel a full flip. There are a TON of bad habits that can be set in stone by DIY'ing an important jump.

Focus on the ballet jump and the mazurka, which are both learning progression jumps for the Toe loop.

[Isk8NYC]

I'm not sure how I will overcome this but I think the fear is stemming from being aware that I'm trying to take off from the middle of my foot.Yeah. Be afraid. Be very afraid. 8O
The toepicks are on the skates for JUMPS. Point your toe and use them for takeoffs and landings.

I'm terrified when I inherit a group lesson student who's doing bunny hops on her rockers. I can envision the falls that will result. That's a really hard habit to break, which is probably why the half flip feels more secure - the coach probably taught you to (finally) use your toepicks.

Check your tracings and point your toes on both takeoff and landing. Last thing on or off the ice during a jump is a toepick, even on the edge jumps.

[doubletoe]

I can point my feet really well, I can't flex them upwards. So for example, if I'm going into a waltz, bending the knee on my takeoff leg requires more flexion of the foot and ankle upwards to support the knee and hip. It's the same kind of flexion required by a squat. But my ankle does not flex enough in that way. So in that bent knee position, I can't roll onto the ball off my foot. Instead I get stuck between the middle of my foot and my heel, which makes taking off for the jump really difficult.

The only treatment for it is surgical for those who do not want to give up their sports. They cut the fascia on both legs so that the muscle has room to expand. Leaves very nasty scarring. But I can't justify that horrific surgery when I'm just a recreational skater.

Oh, I see what you're saying now. So you can't actually get the ankle bend required for your takeoff position on the edge jumps (waltz jump, salchow and loop). In that case, I can see why the toe assisted jumps like the toeloop and flip would be better for you. Sounds like the toeloop and half flip would be good to work on now!


That's how I was originally taught it, however our skate school teaches to land on the same pick as the toe assist to get them used to landing on the same foot for the full flip. So for a CCW the toe pick & landing would be on the right foot immediately onto a LFI edge.

I was also taught the half flip taking off backward picking into the ice with the right toe and landing forward on the left toe, but I think Katz in Boots' skating school is smart to teach it the other way. If you have a choice, I would ask your coach to teach it to you picking and landing on the same toepick so you get used to staying over that side for the full flip.

[NCSkater02]

8ONoooooo!!!!!!!!!! Not the bunny hop!!!!!!!! 8O
Yes, I know thousands of skaters have survived bunny hops, as did I.
I remain scared of them to this day.

That's how I was originally taught it, however our skate school teaches to land on the same pick as the toe assist to get them used to landing on the same foot for the full flip. So for a CCW the toe pick & landing would be on the right foot immediately onto a LFI edge.

Count me in on the bunny hop haters. Such an innoculous (sp?) name for a horrible jump--I had my worst falls on this "simple" jump.....

I initially learned half-flip landing opposite toe. My coach moved me to same toe/foot in preparation for full flip. One day, I will have a coach again and actually learn the flip.

[doubletoe]

Count me in on the bunny hop haters. Such an innoculous (sp?) name for a horrible jump--I had my worst falls on this "simple" jump.....

True, that forward takeoff and landing on the pick can be very unnerving at first, but if you ever want to learn the axel, or even the half axel, mastering the bunny hop will save you from an even worse fall! The bunny hop forces you to roll up onto the toepick and jump up, not out, so you learn to keep your torso straight in the air. Once you add a revolution or a revolution and a half, that habit comes in very handy!

[ibreakhearts66]

The only treatment for it is surgical for those who do not want to give up their sports. They cut the fascia on both legs so that the muscle has room to expand. Leaves very nasty scarring. But I can't justify that horrific surgery when I'm just a recreational skater.

I had a fasciotomy for chronic compartment syndrome about a year ago, and the surgery really wasn't that bad. I only had one compartment done, but I know it was slightly complicated because my muscle actually herniated through the fascia at a slight opening where a nerve comes through. I have maybe a 4 inch scar, but my surgeon stitched my up from the inside like a plastic surgeon, so there are no train tracks marks. There was no super significant pain. It hurt and burned a little for a few days, but it was bearable. All in all, the surgery was 100% worth it.

[Skate@Delaware]

I confess-I was a flat-footed jumper! I still fall back into that (horrible & dangerous) habit from time to time. I remediate myself and my coach has me do the following exercises:
on ice at the wall:
-jump while rolling off the toepicks and land ON the toepicks, trying to get deep ankle & knee bend (sort of envision that hip/hop dance move where the dancer jumps forward onto the toes....)
-do the same off-ice while wearing sneakers...this sets muscle memory.

Keep in mind the jumps don't have to be big, more like hops but the key is to make sure that the toe leaves the ice/ground last and then lands first; no flat feet!

[NCSkater02]

True, that forward takeoff and landing on the pick can be very unnerving at first, but if you ever want to learn the axel, or even the half axel, mastering the bunny hop will save you from an even worse fall! The bunny hop forces you to roll up onto the toepick and jump up, not out, so you learn to keep your torso straight in the air. Once you add a revolution or a revolution and a half, that habit comes in very handy!

I can do a waltz jump, so I'm not scared of the forward takeoff. I just dragged my toe pick one too many times. My knees begged for mercy, so I simply took the bunny hop out of my routine. Actually, I bargained with my coach--take out bunny hop, add in another toe loop...

[Nikki719]

I had a fasciotomy for chronic compartment syndrome about a year ago, and the surgery really wasn't that bad. I only had one compartment done, but I know it was slightly complicated because my muscle actually herniated through the fascia at a slight opening where a nerve comes through. I have maybe a 4 inch scar, but my surgeon stitched my up from the inside like a plastic surgeon, so there are no train tracks marks. There was no super significant pain. It hurt and burned a little for a few days, but it was bearable. All in all, the surgery was 100% worth it.

Wow, I'm so excited to hear from someone else who has this. I can't even bring myself to have the official diagnostic test - the needle insertion to measure the pressure. I had x-rays and the doppler vascular tests which came up normal, the needle was next and I couldn't get the courage to have it done.
Are you a professional skater? Did you have the surgery to be able to exercise or because skating is your profession? Did it affect your ability to flex your foot up before surgery? I'm not sure what to do since sports are not my career but I can't run or even use an eliptical.
Sorry about all the questions, I'm just really curious.

[londonicechamp]

Hi

I relearnt a half flip during my lesson yesterday. My coach said that I should land with one foot, and not too foot. I just feel it a bit weird to land on one foot.

Anybody has this problem as well?

londonicechamp

[Thin-Ice]

Count me in on the bunny hop haters. Such an innoculous (sp?) name for a horrible jump--I had my worst falls on this "simple" jump.....

I think I'm a founding member of this club. And bunnies don't jump like this at ALL. (I would know, I have house rabbits... as in rabbits who live in the house. I've seen them do bunny axels -- although they are cheated about 1/4 turn, but never anything that resembles a "bunny hop".)

I think the worst fall I've had in the last 5 years was also on a "bunny hop" -- right down on my (unpadded) knee. Fortunately, one of our big, strong, good-looking coaches helped me up and that ALMOST made it worth it. My knee was black and blue for a week.

[katz in boots]

Which foot does your coach want you to land on first; the one you pick with or the opposite foot?
You say you re-learnt it, how did you learn it first?

I (CCW) learned to pick with my right foot and land on the left toe pick, pushing immediately onto a RFI edge. Years later I found it being taught as landing on the right pick and pushing onto a LFI edge.

[londonicechamp]

Hi katz in boots

When I first learnt it, it was with a different coach, who taught me to land the half flip on two foot.

My current coach wants me to toe pick with the right foot, and land on the left foot, which I found weird.

londonicechamp

[katz in boots]

Well I did start to write about my bunny hop bad fall story, but as the title of the thread was Fear of Jumping, I didn't want to scare the OP or other beginning jumper. 8O

[katz in boots]

Gosh, landing any jump on 2 feet (except perhaps learning a bell jump) sounds weird to me. Certainly none of my coaches have encouraged landing on 2 feet. No wonder landing on 1 foot - whichever foot - feels weird.

I'd go with it, the weird feeling will soon pass.

[londonicechamp]

Hi katz in boots

My coach does say that I can never learn any jump landing on two foot. With my previous coach(es), all my other jumps are landed with one foot, with the exception of half flip.

I am practising it, and hopefully with more practice, the weirdness will go away. :roll:

londonicechamp

[RachelSk8er]

I can do a waltz jump, so I'm not scared of the forward takeoff. I just dragged my toe pick one too many times. My knees begged for mercy, so I simply took the bunny hop out of my routine. Actually, I bargained with my coach--take out bunny hop, add in another toe loop...

An axel take off has much more to think about than a plain 'ol waltz jump. I'm fine with waltz jumps, those are cake. I was even OK with bell jumps when my coach made me start doing them. There was just something about an axel that's different, I had a near panic attack out of nowhere when I was doing bell jumps last year and my coach told me to now go for the full thing. That's pretty much subsided, unless I go into an axel with too much speed. (I like to think I'm not the only complete headcase when it comes to this jump, the reason I can't do it clean is all in my head.) I'll probably have either a double toe or double sal consistent before my axel is consistent. I've seen a few kids at my rink with good single axels suddenly become scared when it's time for doubles, but they have no issues with back entry doubles or even trying triples.

[Isk8NYC]

The USFSA Basic Skills program doesn't specify which foot to land on going forward. Either landing is correct under USFSA. Sorry, I was looking at an old USFSA BS book. I checked the newer USFSA 2003 teacher's manual last night and it has the Basic Skills skaters changing feet between picking and landing.

The half flip does indeed change feet.

Carole Shulman, in her book "The Complete Book of Figure Skating" calls the same-foot version a "Half Loop Hop."

Interesting.

[ibreakhearts66]

Wow, I'm so excited to hear from someone else who has this. I can't even bring myself to have the official diagnostic test - the needle insertion to measure the pressure. I had x-rays and the doppler vascular tests which came up normal, the needle was next and I couldn't get the courage to have it done.
Are you a professional skater? Did you have the surgery to be able to exercise or because skating is your profession? Did it affect your ability to flex your foot up before surgery? I'm not sure what to do since sports are not my career but I can't run or even use an eliptical.
Sorry about all the questions, I'm just really curious.

I actually didn't have the needle test. My doctor was able to tell just from my symptoms and the huge lump in my leg from the muscle hernia. It definitely affected my ability to flex my foot upwards. I also had major problems extending my leg in front of me (like before you do a toe loop) because nerve pain would shoot through my leg.

I am definitely not a professional skater, but sports have been and probably always will be my life. If I didn't participate in ANY sports I don't know that I would have had the surgery, but I also supposed if I didn't participate in any sports I wouldn't have the problem.

Because the surgery was such a success for me, and it sounds like it's really causing problems with even a normal(ish--I don't think anyone who skates is truly normal :P) I'd say absolutely go for it assuming your body can handle the anesthesia and everything that goes along with surgery.

ETA: Mr Edge also did a column on Chronic Compartment Syndrome. Here's (http://www.usfigureskating.org/Magazine.asp?id=55&issue=42004)the link.

[kayskate]

That's how I was originally taught it, however our skate school teaches to land on the same pick as the toe assist to get them used to landing on the same foot for the full flip. So for a CCW the toe pick & landing would be on the right foot immediately onto a LFI edge.

I think this is called a 1/4 flip. I agree it is a good stepping stone to the 1/2 and full flip.

Kay

[NCSkater02]

An axel take off has much more to think about than a plain 'ol waltz jump. I'm fine with waltz jumps, those are cake. I was even OK with bell jumps when my coach made me start doing them. There was just something about an axel that's different,

But at my age, I doubt I will ever do an axel. I was simply referring to the forward take off that the bunny hop teaches. I'm terrified of it, but can do a waltz.

[londonicechamp]

Hi

Finally managed to land somewhere near to 180 degrees with my left leg, for the half flip.

There is one without toe pick (on the right foot) which I can do. What is that jump called?

londonicechamp