camel & sit spin skidding!

[scotlandsk8r]

Hi all


i would greatly appreciate any help or video help via utube regarding my skidding on my camel & sit. Its very frustrating.

I do the 3 turn fine but then the first turn I make I skid sideways.. i constantly turn out of the circle... how can i stop this?

my coach has never said anything!

my blades are just sharpened and I am still doing it.

My sit i manage fine it doesn't affect my sit at all as I can usually correct it however my camel is non existent! struggling to hold an edge and i am practicing the pushing into part on its own.
thanks peeps xx

[saras]

Hi all


i would greatly appreciate any help or video help via utube regarding my skidding on my camel & sit. Its very frustrating.

I do the 3 turn fine but then the first turn I make I skid sideways.. i constantly turn out of the circle... how can i stop this?

my coach has never said anything!

my blades are just sharpened and I am still doing it.

My sit i manage fine it doesn't affect my sit at all as I can usually correct it however my camel is non existent! struggling to hold an edge and i am practicing the pushing into part on its own.
thanks peeps xx

I've had this problem FOREVER and I think have just figured out how to fix it. Numerous coaches haven't had a clue what's going on LOL. Additionally, the spin would travel for the first few revs and then settle into a nice long centered spin.

This written for a CCW spinner - reverse all lefts and rights otherwise.

A friend and I were just playing on the ice the other day and she was commenting on another odd spin technique that I have - rather than being solidly over my skating foot on the RBI wind up, and then solidly over the LFO outside on the entry, I sort of hover in the middle. So we fixed that (with some playing with overcorrecting - really feeling the lean to the right first and then to the left - it also involves really pushing onto the LFO edge rather than just sorta transferring my weight from one foot to the other). That fixed, then she suggested I play with that not-super-common spin entry technique where you sort of "unwind" before you step onto the LFO. Meaning, you wind up with your arms twisting to the R, unwind them to the L, then step.

For ME my special issue lately is "blocking" any rotation with my L shoulder not getting out of the way (or getting out of the way too late) (this goes for spins and jumps). It's the opposite of pre-rotation, which is probably a more common issue. This fixed that immediately. The skid is gone, and bonus - the spin centers immediately.

I have no idea if this will help you and your technique issues, or if my explanation makes sense ;)

Sara

[CoachPA]

i would greatly appreciate any help or video help via utube regarding my skidding on my camel & sit. Its very frustrating.

Do you have a link you can post to your video? This will help us be able to analyze what may be going wrong.

[Isk8NYC]

I know your OP said that it was after the 3turn hook that you felt the skid, but I wonder if it's not on the 3-turn entry as well.

Skids on spins are usually caused by not holding a deep outside edge on a bent knee upon entry and while you center the spin. That would explain why the sit spin, which has a lower bent-knee entry position, is okay while the camel, which has a very high bent-knee entry position, is non-existant. If you're coming up on the knee to perform the 3-turn, you'll start skidding easily. If you let your free hip open, it will pull you out of the circle.

You should enter the camel with your skating knee bent and your weight over the skating side. The edge is very deep and tightly curled. Stay down on the knee until you've done one full revolution - you should feel your free foot being tugged backwards.

Another thing to consider is your blades: if they were really dull before the sharpening, that would cause skidding because the edges were low. The post-sharpening skids could be caused by a poor sharpening or an ROH that is too shallow. I always skid on 1/2" ROH (standard freestyle) sharpenings, which is why I use a 3/8" ROH (deeper freestyle).

[RachelSk8er]

I know your OP said that it was after the 3turn hook that you felt the skid, but I wonder if it's not on the 3-turn entry as well.

Skids on spins are usually caused by not holding a deep outside edge on a bent knee upon entry and while you center the spin. That would explain why the sit spin, which has a lower bent-knee entry position, is okay while the camel, which has a very high bent-knee entry position, is non-existant. If you're coming up on the knee to perform the 3-turn, you'll start skidding easily. If you let your free hip open, it will pull you out of the circle.

You should enter the camel with your skating knee bent and your weight over the skating side. The edge is very deep and tightly curled. Stay down on the knee until you've done one full revolution - you should feel your free foot being tugged backwards.

Another thing to consider is your blades: if they were really dull before the sharpening, that would cause skidding because the edges were low. The post-sharpening skids could be caused by a poor sharpening or an ROH that is too shallow. I always skid on 1/2" ROH (standard freestyle) sharpenings, which is why I use a 3/8" ROH (deeper freestyle).


I concur. You really need to stay down in the knee and ride the entry edge as long as possible. Particularly on cames/back camels, it's really easy to pop up too soon, not be entirely over the skating side, etc. I find I have to think about the entry edge and knee A LOT more on camels (both forward and back) than I do on all my other spins.

My back camel still skids a bit...I like to blame this (at least this week) on my need for a sharpening, but I know it has more to do with some combination of not holding the inside edge long enough, not staying down in my knee and not being over my R side.

[doubletoe]

I agree that you are probably popping up too soon rather than staying down on a bent knee until you have hooked the spin. Next time you do a camel spin, count how many beats you spend on the preparatory edge right before the entrance edge, then count out the same number of beats on the entrance edge itself. Bend your skating knee as deeply as if you were going into a sit spin, then and stay down and let that entrance edge curve around until you have counted out the same number of beats. Then hook the spin but still keep your knee a little bent as you do the first few revolutions of your camel spin.

Another thing that could be pulling you off of your axis and causing the skid is your free leg position. Keep your free leg practically crossed behind you on the entrance edge, and when you do hook the spin, think of gently pulling back with the free leg and keeping it perfectly parallel to the ice. Do NOT pull it up and do not do any sudden movements with it because that will jerk you off your spinning edge and make you skid.

[scotlandsk8r]

Do you have a link you can post to your video? This will help us be able to analyze what may be going wrong.


unfortunately not allowed videos from our rink!

[scotlandsk8r]

wow, you guys are sooo helpful better than asking any skater at my own rink! :bow:

I am going today so i will try everything you have told me and get back to you. but i agree I do rush it and pop up too early on the entry. All my friends do it differently to myself with keeping the free leg fairly low and doing one full turn before allowing it to rise. to be honest i thought this was just style not an actual technique. coach never asked me to do it that way, she just says i throw myself into it way too fast and i halt up too much on my toepick on the RBI edge. :roll: neverbeen much good at this skating thing lol I am 23 and only just got my lutz... had my axel before i was 21 but its gone again.

[Morgail]

I agree with the holding the entry and keeping a bent knee suggestions. I skid the end of the 3-turn into a camel when I forget to do these things. I've also had it happen on back upright spins, too, for the same reasons.

[scotlandsk8r]

Hi


I tried alot of the things you had all mention. it does work when i go slower into it i cant get it fast yet. the holding the edge thing has helped alot. seems i never did that before and the knee bend on first turn is mega hard. 4 hours tonight i spend at this - grrr

i thought perhaps trying a different entry may help so i tried the RFI 3 turn then into spin.... works on a sit but not much help on camel.

I am just thinking of when i last had a decent camel and that was 6 years ago when I had different boots and blades....hmmm

bad workman blaming his tools lol

[Elly86]

Hi scotlandsk8r!

I'm also a 23 year old skater. I've experienced a similar problem with my camel (and Axel). I think everything gets a bit harder to master when you are older. Little kids seem to have such an easy time popping up into that camel! At 23, your body is probably different than it was 6 years ago (just because of all those natural changes), so try not to get discouraged!

I know this was already said, but one of the most important things is to make sure your skates are sharp enough. I find that when my skates start to dull I always slide on that entry. I try to ride a deep edge into it and keep my weight over my skating side. Like others have said, popping up at the right time is crucial- and make sure your knee is bent until then. I'm no expert- I still have trouble with this spin! (I don't lean forward enough once I'm in it) But hopefully that helps a little.

Also, filming myself usually helps me see what I am doing wrong- I just use my digital camera, which I put on the boards. If you have a small one maybe the rink won't notice. If not, have someone off ice tape you with a cell phone. It might not be great quality, but I doubt anyone will know you are being recorded!

Good luck! :)

[doubletoe]

Hi
I tried alot of the things you had all mention. it does work when i go slower into it i cant get it fast yet. the holding the edge thing has helped alot. seems i never did that before and the knee bend on first turn is mega hard. 4 hours tonight i spend at this - grrr

i thought perhaps trying a different entry may help so i tried the RFI 3 turn then into spin.... works on a sit but not much help on camel.

I am just thinking of when i last had a decent camel and that was 6 years ago when I had different boots and blades....hmmm bad workman blaming his tools lol

Don't dismiss the RFI 3-turn entry so quickly. It's what saved my camel spin! You just have to look over your left shoulder (assuming you spin CCW) as you exit the RFI 3-turn and step onto the LFO entrance edge.

Count out the RFI 3-turn entrance edge (in my case, it's 1-2-3, at about the tempo of the Skater's Waltz), then hold the RBO exit edge for the same count, bending the knee deeply and turning your head to look over your left shoulder as you near the end of the exit edge. Continue to look over your left shoulder as you firmly plant your left foot into the ice and bend the left knee deeply so that your chest is over your left knee before you push off. Now push yourself onto a concentric circle that is smaller than the circle you created with your RFI 3 turn.
In fact, each edge should be rounder than the previous one and each edge should have a deeper knee bend. Your first edge--the RFI 3-turn entrance edge--should be fairly long and flat, then the RFI 3-turn exit edge should be rounder and the LFO spin entrance edge should be tightest and roundest. That's why it helps to look over the left shoulder and "see" the smaller circle you are going to be on.

[scotlandsk8r]

Thanks double toe, I wouldnt dismiss it, but i just didnt want to go learning it over again when I have only 4 weeks to a comp! Hehe.But I will try that again. Next time I skate will be saturday. I only get to go twice a week at most.

[scotlandsk8r]

Hi scotlandsk8r!

I'm also a 23 year old skater. I've experienced a similar problem with my camel (and Axel). I think everything gets a bit harder to master when you are older. Little kids seem to have such an easy time popping up into that camel! At 23, your body is probably different than it was 6 years ago (just because of all those natural changes), so try not to get discouraged!


Also, filming myself usually helps me see what I am doing wrong- I just use my digital camera, which I put on the boards. If you have a small one maybe the rink won't notice. If not, have someone off ice tape you with a cell phone. It might not be great quality, but I doubt anyone will know you are being recorded!

Good luck! :)


Hey

Yeah I have had my man record me on his phone but he rarely comes in. I know what you mean on the getting old part lol. Takes me 3 times as long to get anything than the younger ones! It doesn't help that all technical terms confuse me too. serious lack of energy as well due to thyroid issues.
I think all the issues raised here have been really helpful and even girls at my own rink and coach haven't been that helpful. :bow:
actually... I do have a video of my camel.. but er.. i tried to put a layback on the end and it didnt work so you would have to excuse the crap ending!!!!