Graf edminton specials vs graf galaxy boot

[scotlandsk8r]

Hey all

I am a newbie to this forum, my name is kayleigh . From West coast of scotland, skating at greenock rink and competing as an adult at free bronze level.:lol:

I am in the market for a new pair of boots, i had chose rf2 supers and then changed my mind due to the time they took to make them! :cry:

I am now considering-

graf edmonton special

graf galaxys

or

jackson elite


I would like the more cushioned of the lot... my current super cristallos are a killer! I have worn the wrong size for 5 years and they slipped at the ankles and crush at the arch section. i dont have wide feet but certainly not narrow. i have been remeasured to be a 24.5 (size 4) standard width as a risport boot.

currently landing all singles and working on axel

using mk gold star blades which will be on my new boots.

I am pulled towards the edmontons as i like the design but jacksons look more comfy!

any opinions of these boots i am looking at will be much appreciated!

thanks peeps xxx
:P

[SkatEn]

Now, I understand that some areas don't have pro shops at all. Does your area have one? If you have a place if you can try out the boots, go ahead and try. Even if it means to borrow a skater's skates, go ahead! A used pair that is molded to another skater will feel somewhat different, but at least you get the idea.

From what I understand, Super Cristallo is equivalent to RF4, right? (ETA: Sorry I just found out Super Cristallo is about RF2, I think.And do you know that Mao Asada, who lands TRIPLE AXELS and TRIPLE-TRIPLE, uses RF2 Super? I have felt the RF2 Super and can tell you in all honesty that those boots will be impossible to break in. I couldn't even flex the tongue. 8O

I had issue with my RF4s one year plus back. Arches hurt like #%$#^% (which I later discovered to be due to my high arch), heel slipping, toes kept moving etc.

Solution (for a person who can't afford new skates anyway): Cut a small piece of good quality sponge and stuff it at the toe area. I had skates size 250. I just got another Risport model at size 235 and it's still slightly big by maybe half a size, but fitting enough. The ones I just got come with Gold Star (pst, how are they?).

How to wear skates PROPERLY (https://www.usfigureskating.org/Magazine.asp?id=55&issue=31806)

Considering your level, I would say Graf Richmond. But if you HAVE to choose between Edmonton and Galaxy, why not go for Galaxy since it is lighter? I've not worn both and my suggestions come from the descriptions given on them.

I've not seen Jackson Elites on any of the skaters here. At least, I've not recognised them as Elites. However, do note that elites and Edmonton/Galaxy has a large difference.

I'm going to tell you to look out for the stiffness rating. I'm learning Axel, and am in a very stiff boot. After the Risport skates came in and I tried it at home, I'm very surprised at the ankle bend I can get. So yes, It's actually more comfortable in skates that suit your level. If they are so stiff like rocks but feel like woolly rocks, that makes no difference right?

Good luck!

[sk8_mom]

DD went from wearing Graf's for about 6 years to Jackson Elites last year. Best move she ever made.

She has average feet, but narrow heels. Apparently the Graf's fit rather wide in the heel. Lots of heel slipping left her with very nasty bumps on her ankles, took months to go away.

I was dubious about the Jackson's, but they have been wonderful, she just got a new pair of Elites. The fit for her is much better than the Graf's and the new Jacksons have a few new features - lighter and lower cut in the back.

Not to say the Jackson's are for everyone, DD loved her Graf's till the heel problem started. Graf's may be fine for your feet - just pay attention to those heels.

[katz in boots]

I can't comment on Edmontons or Elites, but I have had Graf Galaxy and they were comfy & lightweight. You can heat mould them over & over (according to the Graf people) to get the right fit, and they don't take long to wear in. I got about 2.5 years out of mine, and I'm a very heavy person who isn't a delicate sort of skater.

I did have some problems with fit because I bought a stock boot and had to adjust to fit my enormous bunions. Overall I was very happy with my Grafs and would happily buy the brand again. I know there are others here who have not had positive experiences.

[Sessy]

I was able to break in graf edmontons special without even doing jumps (wasn't allowed to due to injury, and still am not). I luv luv luuuuuv the boots. It suddenly became almost effortless to hold an edge, and my spins improved tons further. I don't have the opportunity to compare to galaxy though, as that boot wasn't available here when I got my edmontons. THey're way, way too much boot for me but it was the only shops in this country carried, apart from Edea and Risport (they also had some SP teri, but only in children's sizes so I couldn't try it on, and Jacksons only up to classique and couldn't give me any higher model to try). So it was a bit of a compromise. ANyway.

I agree, switching from Risport, the cushioning on the grafs is luxurious. The fit of the foot is en-ti-re-ly different though than on Risports!!! Beware of that. Also. There's just no way to dent out graf edmontons. They don't hold the denting (they are, of course, heat-moldable but the area where I needed the denting wasn't heat moldable and isnt on any boots - I have very weird feet). Also, Risport is way cheaper... But IMHO, Graf is worth the money more than Risport is. That's just my humble opinion though.

Graf definitely have much more heel space than the risports. The risports were too narrow in the heel for me (actually, narrow may not be the best word, I'd use "not deep enough") and so I got bunions, which the grafs allow me to accomodate - at least, using gel stuff. Grafs also have a more square-ish toe model, where as the risports are more pointed. So basically grafs are more for if your toes are all about equally long, risports more if your index and middle toes are the longest... Both of those suit me fine though.
Also I *think* graf has less high of an arch. Not sure on this.

[katz in boots]

...the area where I needed the denting wasn't heat moldable and isnt on any boots - I have very weird feet)...

Okay, now I am just plain curious. What part of any boot can't be dented? I can only think of the soles.

[scotlandsk8r]

Thanks everyone for your great responses!

- We dont have proper pro shops here, I have ordered online and I can send back if they are not right.
My super cristallos are similar to an RF3 I think or maybe that was the cristallos. Not too sure. Because I wear a 255aa (aa meaning extra narrow) it stops my foot reaching the bottom of the boot. Can tell by then markings on the insole.
I too have issues with my arches in current boots extreme pain... if i do constant work for an hour its unbearable and then starts to radiate to my knees. One of the coaches at the rink said I was silly to even think of the edmonton specials as her skaters land doubles in richmonds. I feel that because I have injured my feet and created lumps on my heels that I want the best!

I had thought on the galaxys then been told they break down faster as they are lighter!

RF2 super is definitely out of the question! That boot is cruelty! :twisted:

Gold star blades are amazing in my opinion, I am on my second set in 5 years, before I skated in coronation ace ( I know a big jump!)
Within weeks of changing over I had great back spins compared to none before. I would say be very careful of who sharpens them though! Easily ruined. The one issue with mine is they are very soft and dont hold a sharpen. I do get light grinding however it should stay longer than 6 weeks of skating 4 hours a week surely???

I have recently thought of changing blades over to ultima lite! I find with my gold stars and super cristallos they are heavy boots... lead weights lol

Having issues skidding on turns into camel & sit, however I will start a new thread on that one.

Do you find it harder to land axel in stiff boots SKATen?

I have pretty normal feet apart from the new lumps on my heels which i am sure will go away and are not all that bad. my toes are all in proportionate length and a fairly low arch i believe as the risports kill me in the arch section but could be due to sizing being wrong therefore the arch is in the wrong place.

Anyone use superfeet? or other custom insoles?

I cant get heat molding unless i take to a local ski shop. I will call graf and get instructions for it first.


I have ordered graf edmonton specials and will be with me by friday. I took the 4 1/2 uk size after measuring my feet myself. they cost £260....bargain or not?? I'll pay anything to be comfy after 5 years of hell!

I have been researching since february- I hope all this pays off and thank you for all your help. I will post on friday and let you know how it feels?
thanks xxxxxxxxxxxx :P

[aussieskater]

The one issue with mine is they are very soft and dont hold a sharpen. I do get light grinding however it should stay longer than 6 weeks of skating 4 hours a week surely???


That's 20-30 hours of skating - about average I'd have said? I do mine more rarely and sincerely regret that I delayed every time I go...:P

Not sure how do do a multi quote within a post so sorry about the lack of quotes:

You say a coach is recommending Graf Richmonds for you (as did a poster upthread), but that you want the "best" boot because of foot problems. You need to be aware that more stiffness does not necessarily translate into a better boot - you are far better off getting a boot which fits you properly and is appropriate in stiffness to your level, skills and weight. You can do real damage to yourself and your skating if you overboot - as much as or more than underbooting.

If your feet have real problems, you may have to consider customs, but they can be awfully expensive.

[SkatEn]

- We dont have proper pro shops here, I have ordered online and I can send back if they are not right.
My super cristallos are similar to an RF3 I think or maybe that was the cristallos. Not too sure. Because I wear a 255aa (aa meaning extra narrow) it stops my foot reaching the bottom of the boot. Can tell by then markings on the insole.
Could it be because that it's so narrow that your feet doesn't have the space to touch the insole? That could be a real issue. I imagine your feet suspended, and only with the sides of your feet being gripped on by the boot...
I too have issues with my arches in current boots extreme pain... if i do constant work for an hour its unbearable and then starts to radiate to my knees.
Have you tried arch support? I always recommend arch support because I did have arch pain too. It totally solve the issue. I use Neat Feat arch cushion. I think any brand will work fine as long as it fits in the skate.
One of the coaches at the rink said I was silly to even think of the edmonton specials as her skaters land doubles in richmonds. I feel that because I have injured my feet and created lumps on my heels that I want the best!
Careful there! I thought the same, but uh-oh, one year later I'm eating my own words. My previous skates are so tough. I suddenly could have a good bend, thus better edges, on crossovers, could go down in lunges, etc. The are skaters here doing doubles in Richmonds, I just heard. But you may want to take coaches' advices with a little salt because most skaters on double are those younger skaters. They are smaller in size and thus less demanding on the skate.

I had thought on the galaxys then been told they break down faster as they are lighter!
There's some give and take here, I guess! :)

I have recently thought of changing blades over to ultima lite! I find with my gold stars and super cristallos they are heavy boots... lead weights lol
My previous pair was so heavy now that I switched to a RF2/3 equivalant (Super Nova from Risport). Previous was Klingbeils with Ultima Legacy. Now I have Risport with Gold Stars. My leg feels so free now! I can't imagine why you'll say it's heavy! Maybe you should trying going from a heavier pair to these! 8-)

Do you find it harder to land axel in stiff boots SKATen?
I would say I don't get enough ankle flexing to hold a good landing. I am still working on Axel, but am trying to work up all the jumps in these "new" pair of skates. In the super stiff ones, I notice that I don't get to bend my knee much, which spells disaster as you move up the levels. In my current skates (Risports), I realise it's easier to do many things, including and not limited to, landing jumps, with skates that are more accommodating of your level.

I have pretty normal feet apart from the new lumps on my heels which i am sure will go away and are not all that bad. my toes are all in proportionate length and a fairly low arch i believe as the risports kill me in the arch section but could be due to sizing being wrong therefore the arch is in the wrong place.
Somehow Risport kills everyone in the arch area. :lol: My friends complain of the same, and I fixed mine with arch support. Arch area could be in the wrong place too. Or you may be tying your laces too tight over the instep.

Good luck!

[scotlandsk8r]

Hi


Yes thats correct so narrow that my feet cant reach the end and they slip at the heel as they are too long. I ahve not tried arch support as yet as the plan was to buy new boots anyway.

Yeah i realise i may have went for a way harder boot than i can handle, I will send them back if they are like rocks!

I get the feeling i may end up in galaxys... less stiff maybe?

I have since learned the coach just had a few pairs of richmond to sell on so that maybe was something to do with want to put me in a pair. haha


I have heard of super novas... they are the one up from my super cristallos. I had wanted the super quasars (rf1's) for a while.

I have thought already that the arches are in the wrong place if the boot is the wrong size... so that is perhaps the issue... its all trial and error i guess.. thanks for your help! Been brilliant peeps xx

[stardust skies]

I've worn Edmonton Specials, Galaxy, and tried on the RF2 Super. I've skated in Edmonton Specials for years. I'll try to compare them all so you can see what you'll be switching into if you do go from Risport to Graf.

Edmonton Specials may weight more than Galaxy, but they're much more bendable and easily broken-in that the Galaxy. The only difference between the Edmonton Specials and the Galaxy is the material used- they are built on the same last. Graf confirmed this even though my fitter kept telling me otherwise. Galaxy is made with fake leather, Edmonton has real leather. Edmontons are much easier to break in, they are nice and soft from the beginning (though extremely supportive), and they will move WITH you. I was landing doubles on the first day and never had stiff crossovers or footwork the way I do with every other boot when it's brand new.

I tried the Galaxy after caving into the bullying of my fitter- he insisted they had slightly more volume (aka a wider area from bottom of the heel to top of the ankle, and I have a very high instep so the Edmonton was cutting into it a bit, giving me lacebite). The Galaxy was a total nightmare for me, even though it was actually not ANY wider whatsoever, the material was so incredibly stiff, I still couldn't bend properly after 3 sessions of footwork and stroking. Even with Bunga Pads they hurt my ankles, cut into my skin, and would not hold any type of heat molding. I HATED THEM. I have never hated any boot more in my life, and will never, ever given them (or other artificial leather boots) another chance.

I have never actually skated in RF2 Super, I only tried them on. People say they're made for narrow feet, but I have extremely wide metarsals and they fit me well even though I tried a B (the C is the highest width but it wasn't in stock, and if I'd bought the boots I would have gone with C even though B wasn't bad). I liked the feel of the Risports very much- totally different than the Edmontons but they fit me much better. The volume is wider, the metarsal area is wider, the toe area is configured for tapered toes (which I have) so it hugged all my toes properly instead of cramming my big toe painfully the way my Edmontons always do (my big toe is the longest)..the leather was much stiffer than the Edmontons, but it was bendable like real leather, not complete blocks of atrocity like the Galaxy. Overall I liked them a lot but didn't buy them because they didn't have the right width and I needed boots that week. I'm currently planning to buy RF2 supers as my next pair.

My advice is this:

If you have a low instep (meaning, if the height from the bottom of your foot to the top of your foot is not very raised), if you have a decent arch, and if you have toes that are all approx. the same length, then go with the Edmontons. If you have thinner ankles, tapered toes, high insteps and flat feet, you're better off in the Risports. I wouldn't recommend the Galaxy to my greatest enemy due to my own experiences but of course your own mileage may vary.

With that said you're looking at way too much boot if you're currently doing just singles. Whoever suggested the Richmond as opposed to the Edmonton is probably right, and if your current boots are equal to RF3 then you should have gotten the next step down to equal RF4. Single jumps don't need that much support unless you are extremely overweight or tall, and you'll never break in boots made for triple jumps if you're just doing singles. That means you'll be skating for 1-2 years on barely broken in boots and they will never support you the way they should, nor soften in the spots they should. Even if you get boots that fit great, they will be extremely painful after very little time on the ice if you buy a level that is too stiff for you.

Also keep in mind that sharpening life is not measured by amount of time skated alone. Do you skate on public ice? The few times I have to skate on public or very crowded freestyle sessions, my blades dull down a lot. I like sharp blades so if I were on slushy ice I'd probably get sharpenings every 8-10 hours' worth of time. 20-30 hours of public ice skating, if that's what you're doing is waiting too long between sharpenings, IMHO. Also depends what hollow you get, as the less sharp you go, the faster it'll feel completely dull.

[Jill]

"Edmonton Specials may weight more than Galaxy, but they're much more bendable and easily broken-in that the Galaxy. The only difference between the Edmonton Specials and the Galaxy is the material used- they are built on the same last. Graf confirmed this even though my fitter kept telling me otherwise. Galaxy is made with fake leather, Edmonton has real leather. Edmontons are much easier to break in, they are nice and soft from the beginning (though extremely supportive), and they will move WITH you. I was landing doubles on the first day and never had stiff crossovers or footwork the way I do with every other boot when it's brand new.

I tried the Galaxy after caving into the bullying of my fitter- he insisted they had slightly more volume (aka a wider area from bottom of the heel to top of the ankle, and I have a very high instep so the Edmonton was cutting into it a bit, giving me lacebite). The Galaxy was a total nightmare for me, even though it was actually not ANY wider whatsoever, the material was so incredibly stiff, I still couldn't bend properly after 3 sessions of footwork and stroking. Even with Bunga Pads they hurt my ankles, cut into my skin, and would not hold any type of heat molding. I HATED THEM. I have never hated any boot more in my life, and will never, ever given them (or other artificial leather boots) another chance."

Hi, so I bought Graf Galaxy Boots on Wednesday (2 days ago), I had Riedells b4 and they were ok (I got heel spurs) and had some other problems with them, but finally found a solution to them (I got them punched out A LOT and got super feet to stop them from sliding). The tendon on the back of my heel is pretty straight but not completely. SO this time I tried grafs. It was between the Grafs Galaxy and Graf edmonton special. I got the graf galaxy because the heel seemed to fit a bit better but not much. However, the toes were soooo tight in the galaxy and i have gotten them punched out a ton! I have tried to break them in (have skated 4 times now) and was crying numerous times because they hurt soooo bad! The Edmonton Special seemed to have a much nicer bend in it when I was trying them on, and way more room for my toes (I would need to get them punched out a bit on my ankle bone though). I don't know if I should return the Galaxy's and get the Edmonton Special?! I have 4 tests coming up in 3 weeks and need to be able to skate well for them! Also when I extend my left leg (i.e. in a spin, spiral etc when it is the leg I am standing on and it needs to be straight) the back of the skate digs into my tendon/ heel if felt like I got numerous bruises on my heel/ankles today and I was balling my eyes out! ANy advice on whether I should return them for the Edmonton Special?? Is the Edmonton Special actually an easier break in? and is it better with the real leather?! Please HELP!
Thanks :)

[SkatEn]

...The tendon on the back of my heel is pretty straight but not completely. ... ... Also when I extend my left leg (i.e. in a spin, spiral etc when it is the leg I am standing on and it needs to be straight) the back of the skate digs into my tendon/ heel if felt like I got numerous bruises on my heel/ankles today and I was balling my eyes out! ANy advice on whether I should return them for the Edmonton Special?? Is the Edmonton Special actually an easier break in? and is it better with the real leather?! Please HELP!
Thanks :)

http://i26.tinypic.com/160ag77.jpg

I drew that diagram because I find that it is easier to understand with visualisation. A better diagram is this (http://www.lifeskate.com/skate/2008/11/point-my-toes-d.html), but it refers to another issue. You can see how the tendon will move though.

When you do a spiral, camel etc, your weight is transferred to the front of your skating foot. I feel some flexing (the pointing kind, not opposite kind). Go flex your ankle now so you can understand the diagram better. I haven't tried grafs, but your issues sound like mine. The cause, in my opinion, is that you don't kick your heel back enough.

There is a heel cup at the back of all figure skates - you know, the curved part at the back of the skates? Feel it with your fingers on the inside.

From Mr. Edge on SKATING Magazine - How to lace skates.
"You may not be lacing up your skates properly. Be sure to loosen up your laces and kick back on the heel of your boots in order to properly place your foot into the boot. Keep the toe or your boot pointed upward while lacing. Do not put your foot flat down until you've finished lacing up your boots."

If your heel isn't flush against the back of your heel cup, that means that there is a space allowance for your heel, tendon and back of leg to hit against the boot.

I find that getting off the ice and unlacing all the way, stretching and massaging my foot for a minute and then wear my skates is the solution. I kick my heels back well, while pulling open the sides of my skates.

New skates usually have stiff sides and stiff cushions, so your heel cannot reach the heel cup easily.

I hope you get your issues solved. In the meantime... ice those bruises and look for a pro!

[Sessy]

I have graf edmontons specials and I broke them in without doing jumps (injury at the time). Very very happy with the padding and properties of the boot. However, it may not fit your foot. My mom tried them on (she actually had the cristallo's or super cristallo's, and indeed, couldn't break them in) and then decided she wanted help on breaking in the cristallo's because the graf edmontons were hurting her feet just about everywhere. They were too wide and too short and too flat and I dunno what else for her. While foot shape doesn't differ much between models of the same maker it does seem to do so between different brands so can you try them on at all? maybe borrow from someone?

[Jill]

Thanks!
From Mr. Edge on SKATING Magazine - How to lace skates.
"You may not be lacing up your skates properly. Be sure to loosen up your laces and kick back on the heel of your boots in order to properly place your foot into the boot. Keep the toe or your boot pointed upward while lacing. Do not put your foot flat down until you've finished lacing up your boots."
I usually do this when I tie my skates up but I will be sure to do it all the time now... I think the main source of the problem was the top of the boot at the back was digging in...

Also thanks 'Sessy'! How long did it take you to break them in... ie. be able to skate without excruciating pain?

I went back to my old skates until after my test in a couple weeks...
but when I go back to the skate shop re- my new skates and getting the blades put back on I might try the Graf Edmonton Specials again, another issue I had with the Graf Galaxy is every time I pushed off the heel on my freeleg would rub so much b/c almost my entire foot would come off the boot almost as if they were too big?!... and it was impossible to point no matter how hard I tried :?? this is not so cool since a I do a lot of ice dance as well :S ... Some of my friends have the Riedell 2010 LS boot, and love it! I might try this one as well when I go... I was reading about it and it seems to be very good and I looked at one of my friends and the heal area is more flat than the riedells I have that were giving me bone spurs. Has anyone tried these ones? Or does anyone know if the Graf Galaxy or Graf Edmonton Special skates allow you to point your foot more when they finally become broken in?
Thanks!

[Sessy]

Okay, now I am just plain curious. What part of any boot can't be dented? I can only think of the soles.

Yeah pretty much there, where the boot curves down towards the sole. Also another little bit behind the heel near the sole (though I don't have that problem with Graf, only with Risport) but they can't seem to dent or mold them out past the point where they curve towards the sole... I mean they'll try, but it just doesn't hold a denting or a molding at all. They tried denting out the Grafs for me for my 2nd ankle bones and while the Risport Etoiles kind of held a denting for a while there (as long as I kept using them), the Grafs just POP went back into place after denting them out there. Not sure why or how but then again, you just can't compare Etoile to Graf EdmontonSp so it's not a big surprise.

Really bad drawing skills time (red arrows for where they can't seem to dent usefully)
http://img832.imageshack.us/i/denting.gif/

The thing is, the problems aren't because my boots are too narrow or anything, if I get wider ones I'm just gonna slip around in them (frankly, my current ones are wider than I'd need, but y'know, with gel padding and all). I just have two ankle bones instead of one, one of them is positioned really really low. I blame it on a really bad bike I had as a kid where I kept bumping my feet till they bled on the eh... y'know, thingies you step on to propell a bike. That's for the bumps on the inside. The bumps on the back were cuz my Risports didn't fit my foot type it seems (my heel is naturally positioned further back from the achilles than the boots allowed, causing the back of my heels to bump constantly). Red for extra bone on my feet (in reality, the 2nd bone on the inside of the ankle is actually as big as the normal one)

http://img837.imageshack.us/i/foot.gif/

[Sessy]

Ha, I just noticed now I replied twice here. :roll: brainfart.


Anywhoo, how long it took, not especially long, don't remember exactly any time point since it's a bit of a gradual process... After four or five times I could do shoot the ducks, I do remember that. Should probably note I'm heavy on my edges, though, and do loooove to do shoot the ducks and hydroblades. Also, I didn't lace up the top 2 hooks until about 3 weeks after cuz else the laces dug into the front of my leg. I guess you could say that's about when they were fully broken in.

The pain only really disappeared when I got the orthopedic insoles so that's not much help there. Had I used the orthopedic insoles from the start, I'm not sure there'd have been much pain at all.