Please help me understand toe picks

[Audryb]

I’ve been doing a lot of looking at different blades, partly because I’m looking ahead to the day when I will move up from the Mark IV blades that came attached to my Jackson Freestyle boots, and partly because I’m the type of person who like to find out everything possible about things I’m interested in, and that includes skating equipment :D

I’ve looked at the MK/ Wilson web site in great detail and inspected all the close up photos of the different blades, and one thing I’ve been looking at are the toe picks.

I’ve noticed that aside from the higher level toe picks being bigger, there also seem to be a few different traits that different toe picks share. For example, the toe pick on the MK Professional has fairly uniform teeth from bottom to top- all the teeth end in pretty much a straight line, while the MK Vison toe pick has two good size teeth at the bottom, 3 smaller teeth above that, and then a huge honkin’ tooth at the top that also seems to come to an edge that is perpendicular to the edges of all the other teeth. Also, the Gold Star toe pick seems to be a more aggressive version of the Professional pick (same basic shape) while the Phantom toe pick seems to be similar to the one on the Vision – (the lower teeth are bigger, but it still has that big, differently shaped top pick)

I notice similar things in the Wilson line, the Coronation Comet toe pick seems very similar to the Gold Seal pick (although I’ve heard that the Comet is a good blade to lead up to the Pattern 99 because of the rocker shape) and the Pattern 99 has a similar toe pick design to the Vision/ Phantom. None of Wilson’s “mid-range” blades seem to have that giant top toe pick.

I know that in terms of rocker radius the blade “shape” is more important to the feel of the blade for different spins, jumps, etc. than the actual rocker size, and I can understand that in terms of it affecting how you would roll up to the toe for jumps, or where your weight would be for spins and how much “wiggle room” you might have before hitting the toe pick on a spin, etc. But the toe picks are something I don’t completely understand. Can anyone tell me how the differences in toe pick design translate to a different feel/ use on the ice?

[Isk8NYC]

There are straight-cut toepicks and cross-cut toepicks. I've always thought that the cross-cuts look like meat grinders, lol. The theory is that the cross-cut version allows elite skaters to "grab" the ice for jump takeoffs. They also allows skaters with less-polished technique to grab some ice if they don't toe in perfectly. (ie. laces down, toe pointed.)

[Audryb]

There are straight-cut toepicks and cross-cut toepicks. I've always thought that the cross-cuts look like meat grinders, lol. The theory is that the cross-cut version allows elite skaters to "grab" the ice for jump takeoffs. They also allows skaters with less-polished technique to grab some ice if they don't toe in perfectly. (ie. laces down, toe pointed.)

I understand that, but what I'm wondering has more to do with the profile of the toe pick.

here are a couple images showing what I mean about the Professional and Gold Star having a very similar toe pick profile to each other, and the Vision and Phantom have profiles that are similar to each other but very different from the other two.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/823800/goldstar-professional.jpg
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/823800/phantom-vison.jpg

the toe pick on the Pattern 99 is very similar to the Vision:

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/823800/pattern99.jpg

See the top pick and how it sticks way out and has a "vertical" edge on it (not quite verical, but as opposed to the horizontal edge on the other teeth)

The Coronation Ace, Comet, and Gold Seal in contrast, look very much like the Professional and Gold Star, although the Wilson blades seem to have a little bit skinnier and pointier top pick than the MK. The profile differences seem to be independent of whether the teeth are straight- or cross- cut, although I notice none of the blades with the big top pick are cross-cut.

[Isk8NYC]

I thought you were talking about the cut of the entire toe rake; I didn't realize you were focusing on the top one.

The bottom toepick is always used for edge takeoffs such as salchows, loops and axels. That's the last thing to leave the ice.

The larger top toepick is for toe-assisted jumps such as toe loops, flips, and lutzes. When a skater toes in, that is the first toepick to touch the ice. When they draw their feet together to vault, they roll down the other picks in the rake en route to takeoff.

The angled upper toepick on the Vision and Pattern 99 is intended to make those toe-ins more accurate so that the blade can penetrate the ice (like a knife or an axe) with less effort on the skater's part. However, poor technique such as toeing in sideways will cause the blade to slide rather than catch the ice. Skaters who worry about "slipping" off that toe pick would prefer the parallel angled cut. Your own skating techniques and preferences come into play on this.

It can be challenging to move from a beginner's smallish toe rake to the larger freestyle ones. Skaters remark that they're tripping over the bottom toepick because it's so much bigger than they're accustomed to on their old blades. The adjustment time isn't too bad and it makes them a better skater since they have skate with more bent knees and push with the inside edge of the blade instead of the toe pushing they may have been doing before unconsciously.

I know very few people who've jumped from a Mark IV-class blade to an elite blade like the Pattern 99 or Gold Seal.
The JW Coronation Ace and MK Double Star or Professional are what I usually recommend as the "next step up" blade for skaters working on freestyle.

[Audryb]

intended to make those toe-ins more accurate so that the blade can penetrate the ice (like a knife or an axe) with less effort on the skater's part. However, poor technique such as toeing in sideways will cause the blade to slide rather than catch the ice.

Aha! thank you! I knew there had to be some reason for that shape that to have both a positive and negative side, (like a flatter blade being better for gliding but requiring better accuracy on spins) otherwise they'd all look like that (or none would). The fact that that big upper pick can make your toe-in more accurate but also is unforgiving of poor technique makes perfect sense to me.

Thanks again.

[Sessy]

Ask me how I broke my ankle moving up from MK21 to Coronation Ace. Stupid upper(!) toepick grabbed the ice and wouldn't let go. :x

[NCSkater02]

And here I thought the toe pick was for tripping over!:lol:

[liz_on_ice]

Toeeeeeeee-piiiiiiiiick!

[LilJen]

Toepicks are eeeeeville. . . . (also broke my ankle when toepick caught and rest of foot/leg kept rotating--stupid mistake!)

[Sessy]

Toepicks are eeeeeville. . . . (also broke my ankle when toepick caught and rest of foot/leg kept rotating--stupid mistake!)

Exactly. I broke mine stepping out of a spin wrongly. :lol:

No no no, don't take more toepick than neccessary.