Speaking of the new moves again--they've made some changes

[phoenix]

Intermediate now has the novice spirals, and they took out the loops--Forward loops are now in novice! There may be other changes too, take a look again. I was thinking I should hurry to get through Intermediate before the rule change to avoid the loops, but now it looks like I could probably pass that test.

http://usfsa.org/Shell.asp?sid=42287

[Skittl1321]

I'm a bit confused about the statement for the adult tests that they will adopt the same changes as the lower levels. Does that mean they will adopt the changes for the moves that already exist on the adult spectrum? Or that they will adopt those changes, as well as adopting the new moves (such as the circle 8s.)

[Debbie S]

OK, I think my opinion has changed, lol. Now I might actually pass the new Int test. When I thought only the forward twizzles were being added, my coach said that might be an easier move for me than the back perimeter stroking/back power 3's move (I have issues with back turns at high speeds :oops:). I could do that spiral sequence - the BI spirals scare me a bit, and you no longer get another push in the RFI mohawk transitions like you do in the current Novice sequence, b/c you are doing BI instead of BO on the other foot, but hey, it looks better than loops. :)

Of course, it would be kind of hard to practice w/o running people over, but that's the case with a lot of moves.

I couldn't watch the video, but I assume they show how you get from the end of the first side to the start of the second side/foot?

[Debbie S]

Does that mean they will adopt the changes for the moves that already exist on the adult spectrum? Or that they will adopt those changes, as well as adopting the new moves (such as the circle 8s.)Yes, and somewhat yes. They have the new tests listed in the GC proposals - see NoVA's link in the other thread. The moves that are being revised on the standard track - crossover figure 8's, Bronze perim stroking moves, 8-step - are being revised the same way for the adult track. They are adding the forward circle 8 to the Bronze test. No other new moves are added.

[Isk8NYC]

From the Governing Council Requests for Action document (http://usfsa.org/Content/events/200809/governingcouncil/Requests%20for%20Action.pdf)

371.Adult Skating Committee

Amend rules TR 25.09-TR 25.11 (pages 22-25 Tests Book) to align adult moves in the field with the proposed standard track moves in the field revisions.


The full text of the changes will include descriptions of the new elements. Video clips of the new and revised moves and diagrams of all moves may be viewed at


http://www.usfigureskating.org/Shell.asp?sid=42287


TR 25.09 Adult Pre Bronze Moves in the Field Test


Forward perimeter stroking
Basic consecutive edges
Forward and backward crossovers – combined figure eight pattern
Waltz eight
Forward three turns

TR 25.10 Adult Bronze Moves in the Field

-STRIKEOUT- Forward perimeter power crossover stroking -STRIKEOUT-
Forward and backward perimeter power crossover stroking
Forward power three-turns
Alternating back crossovers to back outside edges
Forward circle eight
Five-step mohawk sequence – condensed pattern

TR 25.11 Adult Silver Moves in the Field




Eight-step mohawk sequence – figure eight pattern
Forward and backward free skating cross strokes
FO-BI three-turns in the field
FI-BO three-turns in the field
Forward right and left foot spirals
Forward and backward power change of edge pulls

Committee Vote: 32 yes, 0 no, 2 abstain


Rationale: Aligning the adult moves in the field tests with the standard moves in the field tests will offer coaches and adult skaters less confusion for those also taking standard moves in the field tests. This will eliminate any disadvantage of training with different moves or obsolete versions of the same moves. Coaches will not need to work with many separate moves, and officials will not need to keep track of as many versions of moves in the field. These changes encourage adult skaters to continually improve their edge skills.

[dbny]

The only one of those that will be harder for me, is the combined F & B crossover pattern. I think I probably can go much faster on the FXO's than my comfort with the mohawk will allow. I could probably pass that move anyway, but I hate to hold back because of a weak mohawk. Will have to bring it up to speed - literally.

[Skittl1321]

The only one of those that will be harder for me, is the combined F & B crossover pattern. I think I probably can go much faster on the FXO's than my comfort with the mohawk will allow. I could probably pass that move anyway, but I hate to hold back because of a weak mohawk. Will have to bring it up to speed - literally.

Thank goodness I've passed that move already- because I'd have the same problem. Possibly when I did it an my crossovers were weak the mohawk (which was weaker still) may have worked, but now I would have to back off on my crossovers to do the mohawk.

I have the same issue with the 8-step. I like that they've essentially cut 2 of the outside mohawks, but I'm going to have to wrestle with the inside one. I wish there was the option to do the circles in the other direction. But the moves have always been biased to CCW skaters (5 step mohawk, for example, is started on the foot that means 3 of one mohawk and 2 of the other. Alternating back crossovers have to start with that turn too- if I did the same pattern in the other direction, the entry would not cause any grief at all.)

[doubletoe]

OK, I think my opinion has changed, lol. Now I might actually pass the new Int test. When I thought only the forward twizzles were being added, my coach said that might be an easier move for me than the back perimeter stroking/back power 3's move (I have issues with back turns at high speeds :oops:). I could do that spiral sequence - the BI spirals scare me a bit, and you no longer get another push in the RFI mohawk transitions like you do in the current Novice sequence, b/c you are doing BI instead of BO on the other foot, but hey, it looks better than loops. :)

Of course, it would be kind of hard to practice w/o running people over, but that's the case with a lot of moves.

I couldn't watch the video, but I assume they show how you get from the end of the first side to the start of the second side/foot?

Yeah, that does make this test seem a little less daunting! I kept messing up on my back power 3's each time I tested Int. MIF and it ended up becoming this mental thing with me, so maybe the twizzles will be a welcome relief. Then again, I haven't tried to learn twizzles yet, so it could also be out of the frying pan into the fire, LOL!

[NCSkater02]

Since all I ever do is practice for MIF testing and never get around to actually testing.....

How do I change the figure 8 crossovers? Is it one set forward and one set backwards? Mohawk or 3turn to change over?

[CoachPA]

Since all I ever do is practice for MIF testing and never get around to actually testing.....

How do I change the figure 8 crossovers? Is it one set forward and one set backwards? Mohawk or 3turn to change over?

The revision means that you'd be doing a figure eight of forward crossovers (so one circle each direction--clockwise and counterclockwise) then do a mohawk through the middle of the figure eight to allow you to do a figure eight of backward crossovers (again, one circle each direction--clockwise and counterclockwise).

This is designed to save time so the skater no longer has to skate two figure eights forward and two figure eights backward. The USFS website has an example (http://usfsa.org/Shell.asp?sid=42291) of this move posted under "Preliminary MIF Test".

[Isk8NYC]

While the transition from the forward crossovers to the backward crossovers is a new challenge, it will eliminate the "circles of different sizes" criticism that I've seen on the test sheets. (When the circle was repeated.)

I assume we can use the hockey lines and the circles/dots for the axes, since the new pattern requires the circles to have width-wise axes.
As long as the skater has no "fear of hitting the wall" (literally), this will be a good thing. It also removes one pattern-to-pattern transition.

One comment I had about the difference between Standard and Adult MITF testing was that the standard-track skaters transitioned from one pattern to the next in an almost-choreographed way, whereas the adults I observed would stop after each move, think, then skate to the next pattern start without good carriage or stroking.

[badaxel]

Intermediate now has the novice spirals,

http://usfsa.org/Shell.asp?sid=42287

I like the changes- especially taking out the bracket 3 bracket on Novice!!! The crowd reallly is going wild!!!

I don't think the INT spirals are the same as the novice, though. Novice has back outside and forward inside. The new Int spirals are forward outside and back inside, which, imo, are harder.

[vesperholly]

the adults I observed would stop after each move, think, then skate to the next pattern start without good carriage or stroking.

I like the changes- especially taking out the bracket 3 bracket on Novice!!! The crowd reallly is going wild!!!
As reviled as this move is, I really think it does a big service in setting skaters up to do the double rockers on Junior and Senior. I know people will argue that these are done practically on a flat, the rockers on edges, etc, but the quick balance shift on one foot that this move teaches is very worthwhile.

I do think some moves have been revised more "by popular demand" than by logic, and many of the eliminations now disrupt the flow of moves. Changing or taking BO/FI spirals out of Novice seems trivial, but BO/FI spirals are on Senior - with a 3-turn transition, not a mohawk.

[Debbie S]

I like the changes- especially taking out the bracket 3 bracket on Novice!!! The crowd reallly is going wild!!!

I don't think the INT spirals are the same as the novice, though. Novice has back outside and forward inside. The new Int spirals are forward outside and back inside, which, imo, are harder.There are also FI and BO. Adding the spirals will probably Int easier for most people, but Novice will probably be harder - for those who could do spirals well, it was kind of a safety net if they failed one of the other moves.

Is the bracket-3-bracket move that bad? It looks like one of the easier moves on the Novice test (as opposed to the quick rocker choctaw end pattern and the back perim stroking with the BI-FI 3's around the ends, both of which look scary as h***).

I tried the forward twizzles today. Just played around with them for a few minutes, going very slowly, but they definitely feel like something I could do. I'm working on both Pre-Juv and Gold right now, and while practicing the back perim stroking for Pre-Juv, I couldn't imagine doing BO 3's around the end at that speed. 8O I think I'll just wait for the new Int test, lol.

[Kim to the Max]

Is the bracket-3-bracket move that bad? It looks like one of the easier moves on the Novice test (as opposed to the quick rocker choctaw end pattern and the back perim stroking with the BI-FI 3's around the ends, both of which look scary as h***).

Personally, I HATED the bracket-3-bracket pattern, but, I also do not like quick turns (junior is currently kicking my butt with the power-pull pattern), so, for me, while it looked easy, it was also the one where I took the hardest falls. That moves also screwed with my head...I ended up having to reskate 1/2 of that pattern when I tested Novice. I also ended up having to do that move twice, as before I stopped skating, I was working on Intermediate, and then they moved that move from Intermediate to Novice...for me, the FI/BI 3 pattern was one of the easier patterns on that test. But, it all comes down to personal preferences...

[phoenix]

Is the bracket-3-bracket move that bad?

Yes.

It looks like one of the easier moves on the Novice test

It's actually one of the hardest, for a lot of people. And as Kim mentioned, you can take *really* hard falls in the learning process.

I'm definitely one of the crowd going wild over that one being eliminated! That move alone made me think I'd probably never get through novice. Now----don't know. Will have to look closer at the new elements.

[Kim to the Max]

It's actually one of the hardest, for a lot of people. And as Kim mentioned, you can take *really* hard falls in the learning process.

My right butt cheek is screaming in agony at the thought!! :)

[doubletoe]

Personally, I HATED the bracket-3-bracket pattern, but, I also do not like quick turns (junior is currently kicking my butt with the power-pull pattern), so, for me, while it looked easy, it was also the one where I took the hardest falls. That moves also screwed with my head...I ended up having to reskate 1/2 of that pattern when I tested Novice. I also ended up having to do that move twice, as before I stopped skating, I was working on Intermediate, and then they moved that move from Intermediate to Novice...for me, the FI/BI 3 pattern was one of the easier patterns on that test. But, it all comes down to personal preferences...

I don't mind the bracket-3-bracket. Once I realized that you're really supposed to just stay on a flat the whole time, it got a lot easier. I wish they'd taken out the rocker-chocktaws (not the quick rocker-chocktaw end pattern, but the other one!). That move seems designed to bring me to a dead stop!

[liz_on_ice]

My right butt cheek is screaming in agony at the thought!! :)

I only just started playing around with rockers and I've already gone down on them :lol:

[techskater]

I don't mind the bracket-3-bracket. Once I realized that you're really supposed to just stay on a flat the whole time, it got a lot easier. I wish they'd taken out the rocker-chocktaws (not the quick rocker-chocktaw end pattern, but the other one!). That move seems designed to bring me to a dead stop!

I hate the B-3-B but LOVE the alternating rocker-choctaws. I like the quick rocker choctaw perimeter, but hate the inner-inner threes.

The B-3-B is one of the most ill-designed moves ever created and if I wasn't determined to pass this freakin' test before hand, I'd wait just to not ever have to do it again.

[Debbie S]

Thanks for the insight on the B-3-Bs. I've only tried them in slow motion, lol, but I've seen some kids go down on them, so I can understand what people here are saying.

Another thought: with the power circles being moved to Juv and back perim/back 3's moves being eliminated, there won't be any moves on the Int test where the primary focus is power. I wonder if the committee thought about that - right now, each level has at least one "power" move.

[Kim to the Max]

Another thought: with the power circles being moved to Juv and back perim/back 3's moves being eliminated, there won't be any moves on the Int test where the primary focus is power. I wonder if the committee thought about that - right now, each level has at least one "power" move.

The back power 3's, I believe are staying on Intermediate...and those are a "power" move :)

[Debbie S]

The back power 3's, I believe are staying on Intermediate...and those are a "power" move :)Nope, the back perim stroking with the back power 3's are being removed. The rationale given is that the back power 3's are on Juv so there was no need to reevaluate this skill. When you add 2 moves to a test, you've got to take off something, so this move and the power circles were it.

I believe the new Int test is: back double 3's, slide chasses, brackets in the field, forward twizzles, and the reworked now-Novice spirals.

[Kim to the Max]

Nope, the back perim stroking with the back power 3's are being removed. The rationale given is that the back power 3's are on Juv so there was no need to reevaluate this skill. When you add 2 moves to a test, you've got to take off something, so this move and the power circles were it.

I believe the new Int test is: back double 3's, slide chasses, brackets in the field, forward twizzles, and the reworked now-Novice spirals.

ugh...you're right, nothing that is power based...but then again, the repetition was not fun...

[Skate@Delaware]

I know my coach is aware of this.....she keeps mentioning testing....glad to see the changes for pre-bronze are not that drastic.

[phoenix]

They still want to see pretty major power on the back double 3's, but yes, this is no longer a power test, it is now a control test. The current Int. test is almost ALL power (except for the brackets), so this overall change is pretty huge. And the main reason I think I'll be able to do the new test--I'm more of a control skater than a power skater.

[Debbie S]

And the main reason I think I'll be able to do the new test--I'm more of a control skater than a power skater.I am neither, so I'd better get to work! :oops: :halo:

[LilJen]

Well, we'll have to wait until the end of the month to see if these changes are in fact implemented--remember, everyone, they're still up for a VOTE (right?) so I wouldn't go all nutty on practicing new moves just yet. Unless you just want to practice them for the sake of practicing them.

[Debbie S]

I wouldn't go all nutty on practicing new moves just yet. I don't think practicing any new skill is "nutty". Whether you have to test something or not, learning it will make you a better skater. There are plenty of skills coaches have their students work on that aren't covered on any test - my coach, for example, has me working on the Juv back power 3's pattern, even though I will probably never test it, b/c she thinks it's important for me to practice.

With all due respect, I don't think it's your place to tell others what they should and shouldn't practice and why.

[Debbie S]

New implementation plan: http://usfsa.org/Content/mitf/MIF%20Implementation.pdf

(sheesh, this is changing by the day - I wonder how many more times a "new plan" will be posted before GC :roll:)

The gist: Pre-Pre through Pre-Juv changes will be implemented this September, Juv and up will be implemented next September. Except for the new 8-step pattern and the 'new' Novice move that combines the BI-FI 3's and quick rocker-choctaws into 1 move. So I guess that means for anyone testing Novice between Sept '09 and Sept '10, they'll do the now-abbreviated first move but all the other moves will stay the same. This strikes me as really bizarre. Besides wreaking havoc on test chairs, it makes no sense to change part of a test 1 year and the rest the next and create some kind of hybrid test - just make all the changes at the same time.

[vesperholly]

Well, the initial changes for Juvenile and Novice aren't really that drastic - it just combines/simplifies the existing patterns, rather than introducing any new ones.

[LilJen]

I don't think practicing any new skill is "nutty". Whether you have to test something or not, learning it will make you a better skater. There are plenty of skills coaches have their students work on that aren't covered on any test - my coach, for example, has me working on the Juv back power 3's pattern, even though I will probably never test it, b/c she thinks it's important for me to practice.

With all due respect, I don't think it's your place to tell others what they should and shouldn't practice and why.

That's why I said "unless you want to practice them for the sake of practicing them." I completely agree that any new skill is worthy of learning and will make you a better skater, whether it's for a test or not. I just meant that someone shouldn't go full-bore into training a proposed test pattern *for the purpose of testing it* if the new pattern isn't yet approved. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

[CanadianAdult]

There's always something to learn. I think it's exciting that USFSA is putting twizzles in the test format. Since I'm a bit under the weather these days and not able to do a whole lot of skating, I took the twizzle patterns to the rink and was trying to do them. Of course I have one great twizzle and all the rest suck, but it's been very good practice trying to do the skill all directions, dreaming of lovely six rev ice dancer twizzles in both directions :P And that's the thing about moves or skills, they make you do things you might not necessarily do, and even if you're never going to test them, they're all good exercises. We don't have twizzles in our skills patterns in Canada, but I suspect they're coming, and we do already have loops.

[phoenix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHKiRr-bmeg&feature=player_embedded

[sk8ryellow]

Do you know what thier doing for Junior, if I test my Junior MIF in June or July will it affect me?

[phoenix]

Do you know what thier doing for Junior, if I test my Junior MIF in June or July will it affect me?

No. If the new moves pass GC, the qualifying levels won't go into effect until Sept. 1, 2010.

[sk8ryellow]

Oh ok thats good, I didn't want to be working on moves that would be pointless, LOL!

[liz_on_ice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHKiRr-bmeg&feature=player_embedded
It looks cool 8O I want to skate like a senior lady. 8O

[Skittl1321]

Well thats going to be a pain to stay out of the way of! (But looks a like fun.)

[Isk8NYC]

At the PSA conference today, Janet Champion, Christine Fowler-Binder gave a power-point presentation on the changes to MITF today. Kelleu Morris Adair addressed the PSA video and book issues.

Tomorrow, they'll take us through the new and revised patterns on-ice.

The powerpoint was good, I hope they make it available in some way. (pdf/online powerpoint) The demonstration videos were awesome, although the speakers emphasized that they were just drafts to demonstrate the proposed changes to the GC, and they were not to denote passing standards. I think they might be the same ones from the website, but I didn't check. The audience applauded a few times because the changes and the skaters were outstanding.

I like the addition of FI and FO "Circle Eights" to Preliminary/Pre-Bronze, but I wish they had moved the Waltz Eight up from Pre-Preliminary. Just MHO. Someone else asked about it and the reply was that the committee considered it but decided that the Waltz Eight was a lower-level move because of the change of feet and direction. To me, half the problem in teaching the waltz eight is getting them to realize that it's supposed to be done in CIRCLES! lol

The PSA is going to develop new videos this summer and update the MITF book they published. Each pattern's passing standard will be demonstrated, along with the ones demonstrating common errors. (aka: the existing ones) The skaters (of both genders!) will be at the test level, as opposed to using a Senior lady to demonstrate Pre-Prel.

The videos will include the adult track tests. So will the new standards book.

This fall, the PSA and USFSA will hold educational seminars for coaches and judges. Judges will be free. I hope that they use some of our coaching membership fees to lower our costs, esp. if they make it mandatory.

[CoachPA]

Thank you so much for sharing that! I was wondering how things have been going at the conference, especially in regards to the new MIF. Please, please, please continue to update us about anything interesting going on.

[RachelSk8er]

Yes.



It's actually one of the hardest, for a lot of people. And as Kim mentioned, you can take *really* hard falls in the learning process.

I'm definitely one of the crowd going wild over that one being eliminated! That move alone made me think I'd probably never get through novice. Now----don't know. Will have to look closer at the new elements.

Worst. Move. Ever. I swear that's why my one knee is still messed up and I passed Novice 10 yrs ago. And I had to do them on both intermediate AND novice because I passed intermediate right before they got moved from intermediate to novice.

[danasuperstar]

When do these changes for the adult test track take effect? I've seen both dates of September 1, 2009 and September 1, 2010. Which is it?

[Debbie S]

All changes take effect in Sept 2010.

[Isk8NYC]

Just confirming the timeline:
. September 1, 2010 is the new pattern implementation date for ALL these changes.
. There was a discussion at the PSA conference that was a bit picayune, but technically, 9/1/2010 is the last date that the current patterns are valid for testing. The new ones are mandatory starting 9/2/2010.
. If a Club wants to schedule a test ON 9/1/2010, they should verify with the USFSA to make sure everyone (coaches/skaters/test chairs/judges) knows which pattern to test.