Separate free and dance boots...plus tips on rapidly breaking in boots

[cazzie]

Does it work?

Daughter does both. Better dancer than free skater but she isn't willing to give up free yet. She loosens boots for dance to allow deeper knee bend, and skate fitter reckons it contributes to rather rapidly trashed boots (they break down round the ankle).

Current boots lasted 5 months. Went to fitters (father of high level competitive skater who knows quite a bit) and initially intended just to get daughters feet measured and skates ordered for a few weeks time, as she has 3 competitions coming up (first one in 2 weeks) and he reckoned current boots support had gone and they looked dangerous. He felt putting her in new boots now was the lessor of 2 evils.

It is going to be a nightmare getting these broken in and any advice welcomed!

However we are wondering about whether to go for seperate boots for dance and free to avoid the same problem happening. Then also wondering whether to do both in the same brand of blade (coronation ace) or whether she could cope with coronation dance with dance boots and coronation ace with free boots.

Coaches are not going to be at all happy with me re the timing of the new boots. I was told by another parent to try and get her to sleep in her new skates (guards on obviously)... said they'd be comfortable within a day if we did this.

[RachelSk8er]

Skates break in much easily nowadays--I competed in my last pair (Reidell 1500s) the week I got them. It wasn't ideal, but I didn't have a choice because my other pair totally bit the dust, there was delay in getting the new ones, and I had a very small window of time (this was a smaller synchro comp where we were against one other team...the following week was sectionals). I actually wore them around the office to break them in, sitting at my desk and walking around in our department. It was rather hilarious.

Some people go with separate boots/blades for dance and free. If you're going the separate boot route, you may as well go the separate dance/free blade route, but I think it depends on what levels she's at (I don't think it's worth shelling out for dance blades until you get to pre-silvers).

The plus to keeping the same blades is that you don't have to re-adjust to a different blade every time you step on the ice, or "forget" you're in your freestyle blades and trip over the toepicks or heels.

If she's doing freestyle with dance on the side to improve her freestyle skills, I would say dance blades are not 100% necessary. I know plenty of skaters who have gotten through their gold dance test and even internationals on freestyle blades.

I personally do everything in synchro blades because I think it gives me the best features of both types of blades combined into one. That only works if you're not very high in freestyle, though. The blades are only rated through a double lutz (so eventually someone who can go beyond that would have to switch out of them anyway).

[cazzie]

Thanks. Hadn't heard of synchro blades so will find out what these are. I didn't realise that dance blades were that different - knew they were shorter. Allegedly she is mainly a dancer and has a partner and they're hoping she'll be IJS level in ayear. Coaches feel better dancer but she is refusing to stop free at present. Eventually she won't have time to do both (especially when she eventually starts secondary school) but right now don't want to force her to make up her mind.

[aussieskater]

Just a thought re the blades: it might not be such a good idea to put dance blades on her new boots a few weeks before comp as there is a significant adjustment to make going from longer blades with big picks to shorter ones with much smaller picks. Maybe put her current blades on the new boots for now, get her through the comp(s), then swap blades etc when you have more time and aren't rushed, and she has time to make the adjustment.

Re synchro blades: I believe Coronation/Wilson makes (or used to make) a synchro blade the same length as their dance blade (ie: really short 8O). Ultima also make a synchro blade which my DH wears - it's longer than a dance blade but not as long as a freestyle one, and has a decent toepick. It's also cheap (about USD 130). The downside for skaters coming off a Coronation Ace is that the Ace has a 7' rocker, while the Ultima has an 8' rocker.

[fsk8r]

My sister has both dance and freestyle boots and blades and I have synchro and freestyle. She's never had a problem and because her dance boots are Graf's has had a relatively quick break in period. She's never complained too much about the switch from dance to free and back again, although has struggled to spin in her dance boots.
My synchro boots are new and I've still not broken them in enough. (I'm lazy and go for comfort sometimes when I should be breaking them in). What I did do was opt for synchro blades, to have the benefits of the short tail. The reasoning behind the selection was because the rockers matched those of my freestyle blades. (Like Coronation Ace /Dance but I'm in IJS Sterling and Ultima Synchro). This has meant that from a blade prospective I don't really notice a difference in the blades (although miss the tail sometimes, but have yet to fall backwards).
I know other people do the combination and don't seem to have a problem, which is where I first thought it might be possible. I'm not a high level skater in any regards, but needed to do something about getting toe-point for dance to have a chance of passing the next test.

[blue111moon]

I don't know enough about dance to advise on the separate boots, but I do know how to speed up breaking in any new boots.

Rather than sleeping in the boots, wring out a pair of thin trouser socks in warm water. Put the socks on and then put on the boots. Lace the boots not super tight and then sit and wwar them for half an hour or so. Watch TV, walk around a little, let the dampness soak into the leather. Take the boots off and let them air dry over night.

Do this every night and they should mold to the feet in less than a week.

I do this with every pair I get and it works like a charm. The only other thing I did once that broke in new skates quickly was to skate laps in a fundraiser (10 cents a lap for the leukemia fund) in a very warm rink. My feet sweat buckets and the skates fit just fine by the end of the day. :)

[Query]

Breaking down vs breaking in are merely a matter of degree. If you break them in too much, they will break down too fast.

For the rest of this, I assume your boots are leather. At least one lightweight figure boot (Zero Gravity) is advertised as having microfiber uppers, which I have no experience with.

This is from my personal experience.

The wet sock routine is pretty gentle to leather if you don't overdo it. When you are done, if you needed a lot of water, use a leather conditioner (e.g., Lexol brand) to re-lubricate the leather, so they don't stiffen and crack. Be sure to let them air out.

If the wet sock routine doesn't work fast enough, you can use more extreme measures. Heat molding breaks in/down leather more rapidly. So take a hair (blow) dryer and heat your boots. If you have a candy thermometer, check you don't go over 160 degrees, which is pretty safe for almost any leather skates (typical manufacturer recommended heat molding is at least 180 degrees, but varies by brand, model and year), even those not designed to heat mold. Actually, it is hard to go over that with most hair driers, so you can probably skip the thermometer. (many restrooms have hand blow driers, which do the same thing.) Then put your feet inside, and lace them as tight as you can stand, but don't cut off circulation. Keep them on till they are cool. To break them in still faster (but also break them down more), move your feet inside them the way you will while skating (e.g., pivot forward and back while your toes alternately point and come up).

Repeat the whole process 5-15 times and they will probably be broken in.

Stay away from cooking ovens - they cycle too hot, and calibration varies.

BUT: Not only can you break them in too much (heat molding is not gentle), but if your boot fitter "punched" (stretched) out any excess pressure points (e.g., next to ankle and toe bones), heating kills those stretch points. They may need to be repunched.

I loosen laces slightly for dance too, but am not a high level skater, so my current battleship weight boots will never break down. It partly lets the boot flex a little sideways, for deeper edges. Flexing the leather that way weakens the sideways stiffness. But sideways stiffness is the whole point of freestyle boots designed to protect ankles during jumps and landings. So your boot fitter could be right.

[RachelSk8er]

Re synchro blades: I believe Coronation/Wilson makes (or used to make) a synchro blade the same length as their dance blade (ie: really short 8O). Ultima also make a synchro blade which my DH wears - it's longer than a dance blade but not as long as a freestyle one, and has a decent toepick. It's also cheap (about USD 130). The downside for skaters coming off a Coronation Ace is that the Ace has a 7' rocker, while the Ultima has an 8' rocker.

I *believe* Wilson has revamped their synchro blades in recent years to accomodate changes in synchro. In the 90s there used to be no difference between dance/synchro blades other than the label stamped on them. They had to make some changes in more recent years to accomodate more spinning (bigger toepicks for flying spins, and axels are allowed in senior, not that anyone does them because they're not worth much in IJS).

Ultimas are more of a dance and freestyle blade's love child (ha ha). I've worn those for several years and I do both dance and freestyle in them just fine.

If she's serious about dance and competing with a partner, I would suggest dance blades. Go with a less expensive version at first (Coronation dance, etc). But as someone already mentioned, they do take adjustment time to get used to. Some people take a while to get used to the rocker, small toepicks and shortness. Others do find them really easy to skate in right away, their only big issue is they forget about the short heel, lean back too far when they are just standing and listening to their coach, and come down hard on their tailbone (you can always tell when someone switched to dance blades because this happens, it hurts like heck but it's kind of funny). Let her worry about the adjustment over the summer. Switching between two sets of blades also takes some adjustment.

[cazzie]

She (funny girl) refused to try any of the breaking in tips preferring to do it "the hard way" but has done about 10 hours of skating in the new ones so they're starting to feel OK.

She's working on doubles now - getting full rotation although only landing in backspin (and landing plenty on her butt as well).... She says she definately won't give up free until she has all her doubles now! So guess it will have to be seperate boots.

At present getting her to competition (monday - free skating) and then worrying about the dance boots next week. (So much to do always....)Thanks for warning me about the tailbone stuff. I'll warn her!

[Query]

Just curious.

The Ultima Matrix runners for Synchro are substantially shorter then their runners for Dance. (The Supreme freestyle runners are longer.)

Is the same true of their non-Matrix blades?

How typical is this for Synchro and Dance blades within the same line?

If so, is it because Synchro has more potential partners' skates to collide with? Does it make Synchro blades much slower than Dance and Freestyle blades?