how does your LTS program test skaters?

[Lsk8]

I'd like to know how your Learn to Skate program tests kids. At our club the coaches used to test the students, now we have a former USFS judge doing all the testing. Either way too many kids were passed without actually meeting the required standards (ie: edges not held as long as called for in the USFS LTS manual, or not actually on an outside edge when they are doing swizzles around a circle, etc). Today I told our tester that the kid should test xyz elements and she tested elements I know weren't ready, and passed the kid.

So, who does the testing? How often? How strictly is the standard adhered to? And if a kid is in group LTS and also has a private coach who decides the child is ready to test?

[isakswings]

I'd like to know how your Learn to Skate program tests kids. At our club the coaches used to test the students, now we have a former USFS judge doing all the testing. Either way too many kids were passed without actually meeting the required standards (ie: edges not held as long as called for in the USFS LTS manual, or not actually on an outside edge when they are doing swizzles around a circle, etc). Today I told our tester that the kid should test xyz elements and she tested elements I know weren't ready, and passed the kid.

So, who does the testing? How often? How strictly is the standard adhered to? And if a kid is in group LTS and also has a private coach who decides the child is ready to test?

At the rink my daughter takes lessons at, it is the coach who teaches the class who decides if the student passes the class. As far as I know, the private coach has little to no say if their student should pass a certain level or not.

[katz in boots]

At our rink the coaches decide who is ready to take a test but there are independant judges who refer to the test book.

As one of these judges, I can say we are mindful of the standards set out in the book at all times. Regardless of what the coach might think, they pass the test only if they perform to standard on the day. Bit of a sore point lately.

[sk8tmum]

Canskate, I'll grant you, which is the Canadian LTS program, and this is for our club, can't speak to others: In the group lessons, the group instructor regularly evaluates the students against the levels for the elements, and passes them or not based on whether they are achieved, and this is done at every session. When a kid passes all of the standards for that level, they get the level as of that session. However, the final determination for promotion for kids who are privately coached goes to the private coach. The group instructor indicates that they believe it is ready, and the private coach yea/nays it. It's a courtesy, as usually the private coach is fine with it.

[Isk8NYC]

The Group LTS instructors "evaluate" the students towards the end of the session to determine what level they should enroll in next session. My daughters spent several sessions in FS1, passed multiple times, but were "sent back down" by the FS2 instructor three times each. As a result, I keep a skater at the same level if they haven't mastered two or more elements. I think it's less cruel than moving them up and having the skaters demoted by the higher-level group instructor in the first week. I have no qualms about explaining that to the parents and several thanked me for "being tough."

Our school had a pre-season meeting where we went through the tests and defined the "passing standard" for each element. Some of the standards were a little more demanding than I would have liked - bunny hops on both feet, for example. Yet, I'm coming around based on my experiences so far this year.

This season I taught both Basic 8 and Freeskate 1. (different days/students) It made me much more demanding of the Basic 8 skaters because I saw how much the Freeskate 1 skaters struggled with their elements because they lacked control and had developed bad habits. The Waltz Jump and One-Foot spins were good examples of elements in both tests where the level of difficulty increases. The skaters need to have good form BEFORE they move into the Freeskate levels and Basic 7/8 is where to correct bad habits, IMO.

However, private instructors always have the final say over evaluations, and can override the group instructor. (As happened to me yesterday, as a matter of fact, lol.) The test level for Basic Skills competitions is decided by the private instructor who must sign the competition form affadavit.

[isakswings]

The Group LTS instructors "evaluate" the students towards the end of the session to determine what level they should enroll in next session. My daughters spent several sessions in FS1, passed multiple times, but were "sent back down" by the FS2 instructor three times each. As a result, I keep a skater at the same level if they haven't mastered two or more elements. I think it's less cruel than moving them up and having the skaters demoted by the higher-level group instructor in the first week. I have no qualms about explaining that to the parents and several thanked me for "being tough."

Our school had a pre-season meeting where we went through the tests and defined the "passing standard" for each element. Some of the standards were a little more demanding than I would have liked - bunny hops on both feet, for example. Yet, I'm coming around based on my experiences so far this year.

This season I taught both Basic 8 and Freeskate 1. (different days/students) It made me much more demanding of the Basic 8 skaters because I saw how much the Freeskate 1 skaters struggled with their elements because they lacked control and had developed bad habits. The Waltz Jump and One-Foot spins were good examples of elements in both tests where the level of difficulty increases. The skaters need to have good form BEFORE they move into the Freeskate levels and Basic 7/8 is where to correct bad habits, IMO.

However, private instructors always have the final say over evaluations, and can override the group instructor. (As happened to me yesterday, as a matter of fact, lol.) The test level for Basic Skills competitions is decided by the private instructor who must sign the competition form affadavit.

I think it is good your school is tougher on students. I feel ours(with the exception of a few coaches) are too easy on the students and will pass them as long as they have the BASIC understanding of the skills taught in that level.

When my daughter took FS1, she luckily had her private coach as her LTS instructor. She DID pass but I felt confident that her coach would not pass her unless she was ready to pass that level. When she took Freeskate 2 the first time, the LTS coach that had her that time did not pass her. I was glad because I knew she would not be ready to compete at that level. We took a 4 month break from LTS and put her back in this session. She has the same LTS coach who happens to be harder on kids she knows take private lessons. Dd does most of the elements very well, but still struggles with the back edges. Outside are ok but inside aren't so hot. She can do them, but they aren't very pretty yet.. Her beginning backspin needs some work too. Sometimes she does it but most times she struggles with coming out of the spin. She often stumbles while trying to come out of it. My daughter was the only student who attended last week.The LTS coach worked on her backward edges. It was nice to have that one on one time! She really wants my daughter to pass this class. I however, don't. The back edges are not required in competition, but the beginning back spin is and I'm not sure it would be good enough to compete with. She is competing in June and will be doing 2 programs. Her private coach thinks we should stay in Freeskate 1 just one more time before moving her up to Freeskate 2. I agree. If her backspin was stronger, I would be OK moving her up but TBH, it's not. Funny thing is, she can do a lot of other elements from higher levels but struggles with individual elements in each level. Anyway... I'm rambling. It would be nice if private coaches had the last say at our rink! Oh and FWIW, I have talked to the LTS coach and I have asked her NOT to pass her unless she thinks she is ready to compete at this level. She is aware she competes and I hope that will influence her decision. OY. :)

[kayskate]

At the rink where I teach LTS, the grp instructors test toward the end of the "semester". If a set of classes is 7 classes long, we test on wk 6. If someone did not pass on wk 6, we will re-evaluate on wk7. Then the student signs up for the next level. We sometimes have to move kids up or down depending. Sometimes we have students who passed Basic 3 (for example) but haven't skated for months, and the need to repeat B3 b/c they can no longer do the skills at level and cannot handle the skills on the next level.

We are fairly tough about the standards. I have personally failed kids 3x at certain levels b/c they cannot do a certain skill or skills well enough to learn the next level. Being more particular may hurt a kid's feelings, but we tell the parents the kid will be better served by mastering the skills and moving on when s/he is ready. Most ppl are satisfied w this. From the instructors' perspective, it is very difficult to teach a class when kids are not placed properly. It brings down the level of the class, and the kid needs to be put back a level. That can also lead to scheduling problems for the parents b/c we do not offer all levels every day classes are taught.

There are some specific skills that seem to keep kids at a given level such as the backward 1-foot glides at B3.

Kay

[dbny]

We have 10 week sessions and are being urged to evaluate our students by week 4 or 5, and also to go beyond the level we are teaching if the kids can do it. I started a new B1 class today, and by the end of half an hour, all the kids were doing all of the elements - not well enough to send them up to B2, but I can see already that they will probably be doing some B2 skills by week 4. This just happens to be a class of well coordinated kids with good attentiveness.

[blue111moon]

My Club LTS program runs on 8-week sessions. The skaters are tested on the 8th week by their group instructor. Any "maybes" are evaluated by the Director. Our philosophy is that if the skater demonstrates reasonable skill on most of the elements of the level, they pass. Nothing has to be perfect, they just have to have the general idea. It's Basic Skills, not the Olympics.

In the past we had an issue with a coach who refused to give out FS badges to anyone whose skills weren't perfect on all the elements because she felt it did the skater no good to move on to a harder level. However, several skaters got discouraged at working on the same level all year and the parents got rustrated because their kids weren't "learning anything" and they dropped out of the program.

LTS is supposed to be fun, first of all. Personally, I pass skaters if they can demonstrate 90% of the moves so that I can recognize what they're doing.

Speaking of which, does anyone have one USFS FS2 badge I could buy from them? :) I have one kid who will pass it this term and it's the only badge I'm out of. I hate to place an order for one badge when I know I'll have to restock again after this session. :)

[isakswings]

My Club LTS program runs on 8-week sessions. The skaters are tested on the 8th week by their group instructor. Any "maybes" are evaluated by the Director. Our philosophy is that if the skater demonstrates reasonable skill on most of the elements of the level, they pass. Nothing has to be perfect, they just have to have the general idea. It's Basic Skills, not the Olympics.

In the past we had an issue with a coach who refused to give out FS badges to anyone whose skills weren't perfect on all the elements because she felt it did the skater no good to move on to a harder level. However, several skaters got discouraged at working on the same level all year and the parents got rustrated because their kids weren't "learning anything" and they dropped out of the program.

LTS is supposed to be fun, first of all. Personally, I pass skaters if they can demonstrate 90% of the moves so that I can recognize what they're doing.




I think this is how my daughter's school works. Although at this point, when she does take a basic skills class, I DO want them to be hard on her. BUT that's simply because I want her to be ready to compete at that level. Most of the kids in LTS aren't competing so I don't think there is anything wrong with passing them if they aren't perfect. That said, I also think so me coaches are a little "easy" on the kids and will pass them even if they aren't truly ready for the next level.

[vesperholly]

I wish the program I teach with would do independent testing. The sessions are 7 weeks, and some kids just don't learn that quickly. The higher levels are pretty tough for a lot of skaters (it's not USFS basic skills). A few weak elements is one thing, but complete inability to do an element is another. If a kid can't do a 3-turn, I'm not going to pass them to the next level, which requires a toe loop.

I try to explain it, but they get upset anyways. All they want is the little badge. :(

[Isk8NYC]

I really like the idea of having the Director make the call for the "maybe" students. Thanks for the suggestion. I know I've been frustrated by skaters that couldn't do a one-foot 3 turn for the entire class, but manage to squeak out three clean ones on each foot for the evaluation, lol. I think I'll ask for a second opinion next time that happens, lol.

I try to explain it, but they get upset anyways. All they want is the little badge. :(That's why I like the progress books more. Unfortunately, the skaters lose or forget them all the time, so it's not cost-effective. (I guess the rink could charge for replacements.)

I solved some of the problem by giving the books out with instructions to "put it in a plastic bag and keep it in your skate bag." I would print labels on my computer that said "Bring your book" and put them on the skaters before they left the ice during the 6th and 7th week lesson. I liked seeing their progress and saying "Remember when you couldn't do a one-foot glide?" Look at you now!"

I taught in an ISI program a few years ago that used a unique approach to the testing/promotion. They split some of the levels into two - Alpha 1 and Alpha 2, for example - to fit the 8wk schedule.

Instead of the "official" ISI badges, the director had ribbons printed with the rink logo and the test level, along with a bunch of "participant" ribbons as well. At the end of the test, EVERYONE got something to take home with them.

For an extra fee, the rink would register the "real" Alpha test with the ISI and give the skater the Alpha badge after the skater passed Alpha 2.

That was handled at the front desk, so it was off the ice and less obvious to the other skaters. The parents just thought of it as "buying the badge" but it made record-keeping easier as well. Not to mention keeping the pass/fail discreet.

I have only had one problem with not promoting a student in the past two years, so I guess I've developed my banter now, lol. I've had parents and other coaches THANK me for not moving a skater up. I've also been on the receiving end of kids who were "sent back down." That's even more heart-breaking than not being promoted and I tell the parents that up front. I try to focus on the returning skaters and get them up to speed as soon as possible, but many should not have been promoted in the first place. Unless a skater is really struggling, I don't demote. I instead talk to the parents about practice and extra lessons. That's tricky because I don't want to bad-mouth whoever taught them last session. I try to blame the skates sometimes, lol. (It's TRUE! If they can do mohawks in the velcro skates, switching to the worn-out plastic ones can ruin that progress!)

Just as ISI has some "tough elements" in each level, the USFSA has some "foundation skills" that have to be mastered before the skater moves on. Otherwise, they'll get sent back down or get stuck at the higher level for a longer time frame. I go over all the elements during the first week, so the skaters know what they have to do during the 8 weeks.

Timing your communication with parents/skaters is important. I usually try to warn parents ahead of time, after the third week. That way they have time to change their pattern and get more practice, or show up on time, things like that. I also tell them that, if they were going to buy new skates, to do it now rather than right before the last few weeks of class. It's hard to be evaluated when you're hobbled by stiff new skates, lol.

Mostly, I emphasize that EVERYONE learns at their own pace. My twins don't master the same things at the same time. When they got stuck on Freeskate 1, it was for two different elements, lol. They would pull it off for test week, then get sent back down for the next session. Frustrating. :frus:

I explain to parents that an 8-week session is only four hours of on-ice lessons. That's why the rink gives them a punchcard for the public sessions - they need to practice in addition to taking lessons. I ask if the skater practices other than the class, saying that there's a rule of thumb to use (1 lesson : 3 practices time ratio). Usually, I win them over at that point because people don't realize that practice is so important. I also give the skaters two things to practice at the end of each class. Whether or not they get to the rink, they get an assignment. I used to put stars next to their name if they told me they practiced in between lessons, but that led to excuses I didn't need to hear, so I stopped doing it, lol. ("Well, I was at my father's house this weekend and he never does anything but watch TV and drink beer. He wouldn't bring me and I forgot my skates..." Some things are better left unsaid.)

I do keep track of attendance, including lateness because it means you're missing part of the class. I often use the "proper stroking" in Freeskate 1 as a warmup. Come late and you miss that part of the lesson. If a skater says "I never learned that." it's a distinct possibility if they have a pattern of lateness. If they're late 2 or 3 weeks in a row, I just suggest that they come early and bring a jumprope to warm up for a few minutes before putting on their skates. It's non-confrontational and good for them!

[momof3chicks]

The Group LTS instructors "evaluate" the students towards the end of the session to determine what level they should enroll in next session. My daughters spent several sessions in FS1, passed multiple times, but were "sent back down" by the FS2 instructor three times each. As a result, I keep a skater at the same level if they haven't mastered two or more elements. I think it's less cruel than moving them up and having the skaters demoted by the higher-level group instructor in the first week. I have no qualms about explaining that to the parents and several thanked me for "being tough."

Our school had a pre-season meeting where we went through the tests and defined the "passing standard" for each element. Some of the standards were a little more demanding than I would have liked - bunny hops on both feet, for example. Yet, I'm coming around based on my experiences so far this year.

This season I taught both Basic 8 and Freeskate 1. (different days/students) It made me much more demanding of the Basic 8 skaters because I saw how much the Freeskate 1 skaters struggled with their elements because they lacked control and had developed bad habits. The Waltz Jump and One-Foot spins were good examples of elements in both tests where the level of difficulty increases. The skaters need to have good form BEFORE they move into the Freeskate levels and Basic 7/8 is where to correct bad habits, IMO.

However, private instructors always have the final say over evaluations, and can override the group instructor. (As happened to me yesterday, as a matter of fact, lol.) The test level for Basic Skills competitions is decided by the private instructor who must sign the competition form affadavit.

As a parent, I'd like to see more of this toughness. It seems to have waned a bit at our rink. My younger dd had to learn things really well to pass, and suddenly my 9 yo tells me she passed FS 4 and IMO doesn't do anything even remotely resembling an actual sit spin. All that does is force me to have it fixed later expensively via private lessons. GRRR

[PinkLaces]

Both LTS programs my DD was in were tough. All the skills had to be mastered before a pass was given. This was ISI. Pre-Alpha through Delta - one program had punches on badges. As the skill was mastered, it got a punch next to it. Once all the skills had punches they were moved up to the next level. The other program the director or another instructor tested kids once the skater's instructor thought they were ready.

For FS1 and up, there was a 3 instructor panel (similar to USFS judging panel)and 2 of the 3 instructors had to pass the skater. My DD had took both the FS2 & FS3 tests twice. FS4 was only one try :)

[Skate@Delaware]

The skating instructors would "test" the students and pass them...it was really just pencil-whipped. How can you test 20 students in 30 minutes/class for all the elements learned over 6 weeks? The instructors (none were coaches) were encouraged to pass all of them because that was what kept bringing them back for the next session-success!

Our new skating director has much higher standards, as do his instructors (all are coaches, there are no more "instructors" on staff). You must have an element before it is signed off. Our rink switched from USFS to ISI so everything is re-aligned in that direction. Not that it makes any difference to the quality-it has to be there or you don't advance.

[Ivana27]

At my rink, the instructors of each class test the students. We test on the last two weeks of the session. The Skating Directors have the final say on "maybes." If the skater has a private coach, then the coach will have the final say beyond the skating director.

We are pretty strict on our standards (we use the USFS Basic Skills curriculum). We expect the skaters to correctly perform every skill at their level. All skaters in Basic 1 & Snowplow Sam 1 usually pass the first time through. Basic 4 is where a lot of them get stuck and usually have to repeat two or three times (forward edges, 3-turns, forward crossovers, backward stroking, back snowplow stop).

We want the children to have fun, but we also expect them to learn the basics correctly now instead of just passing through everything quickly and then having to go back to basics when they are trying to learn jumps and spins. It is a whole lot easier to progress correctly when you have a strong foundation.