Off Ice: Back Flexibility Work

[dance2sk8]

I am flexible (almost can do the splits, a few more months and I should have it). However, I want to work towards a Bielman position. I can do a back catch easily and pull my leg pretty high, but what can I do to gain more back flexibility? I started doing back stretches at home almost every night (yoga position). What else can I do? Anyone have some success on gaining for back flexibility as an adult?

[Black Sheep]

I include:

1. Backbends on the wall, arching my back and letting my hands crawl down towards the floor. On a good day, I can do this without a wall!


2. If you have an extra 35 bux lying around, I highly recommend one of THESE:

http://www.rainbosports.com/shop/site/product.cfm?id=4AC58647-475A-BAC0-51F725CFD7083651

Personally, I wish I had a (portable) kiddie gym mat so I can figure out how of a front and/or back walkover without crashing down on my skull!

Anywho, I hope these pointers help. ;)

[doubletoe]

I used to regularly practice the cobra pose (http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.yogaposes365.com/uploaded_images/yoga-poses-3655-783373.jpg&usg=AFQjCNFi8szIXjcQAKxfkIRBTeq3qPKSRw) to try to improve my backbend, but I ended up stopping because it started causing me stiffness and mild lower back pain after awhile. But interestingly, bridges (http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.infobarrel.com/media/image/311.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGJPSjgZYHV9U0qxgo9MtlUvWJbwg) don't seem to give me that pain, maybe because the bend is distributed more evenly throughout the spine. Also, I noticed my back bend got better just from getting my splits more split. It's the increased flexibility in the hip flexor of the back leg in the split that gave me more lower back bend.
Having said that, I don't feel like I have been able to significantly increase my mid to upper back flexibility, so I have pretty much given up on ever doing a Biellmann or haircutter. I'm going to go for a Y spin instead (and maybe someday an I spin), and keep doing catch foot spirals holding the free foot with the same side hand, which enables me to hold the free foot above head level with much less back bend.

[niupartyangel]

i've always been curious about the maxiflex. i don't know anyone in the rink who has one. can anyone give a testimonial that it is worth the money? currently i have also been doing the cobra pose, and also an old exercise we used to do in ballet when i was a kid, where you do the cobra pose, but lift your calves in an attempt to touch your toes to your forehead 8O i was never able to do that one but i was definitely better at it at 11 than i am at 28 :twisted:

[TiggerTooSkates]

What seriously hurts my pride is I COULD do that, and I can't anymore.

When I was a cheerleader back in junior high and high school, I could kick my leg up behind my body - and get the BOTTOM OF MY SHOE PAST MY FACE. I could have kissed my own ankle in midair. Used to scare the crap out of the football coach. I also used to do two or three Illusions in the middle of one of our cheers - I was watching Tiffany Chin on TV and thought, hey, I can do that - so I did. How I did it in Reebok sneakers I can't even begin to tell you. I tried to figure out how to do it on a balance beam but I could never get it quite right.

Why, oh why wasn't I skating back then? I would have had a Biellmann to beat the band!

(Oh, yeah - poor, and no ice rinks - that's the reasons. . .) :)

[Stormy]

I have the maxiflex and used it several times trying to get the hang of it, but it wasn't really worth the money I spent on it.

[Sessy]

Yeah I got a biellmann spin (of sorts) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11krMBf6A_k) within 1,5 years of starting to skate, never having done anything for my back flexibility at all. I actually had the leg higher on the spirals, it was above my head this: click (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/sessy_world/biellmannapril2008free.jpg) is about how high it got on-ice (afraid I don't have a photo of any decent quality but I could totally see the heel of the skate when I looked up) and click (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/sessy_world/biellmannapril2008supp.jpg) this was the maximum stretch I could get within 2 years. Oh, and I never even had any semblance of the splits. The biellmann I was doing completely came from my back.

What I did was stretch with the skates on, so I could grab the foot by the blade right away, like I would on ice. I did this like, four, five times a week - after almost every skating session and sometimes at home too.
I did the camel and the cobra positions from yoga almost daily, only sometimes skipping. Also sometimes I varied with the cobra a little, also bending my legs at the knee and trying to make a circle, reaching with my toes for my head. You definitely want to do both the camel and the cobra, they camel makes it less scary to bend backwards for the biellmann, where as the cobra gives the flexibility.

Also I did them not just once a day but like... During a session I'd switch between them, doing like five each. Because each next one got steeper/deeper/whatever you want to call it, compared to the first.
I found stretching with the skates on in the actual biellmann needed to be done warm, but I noticed no ill effects from slowly easing into the yoga positions without being warm. Nonetheless, it's probably better if you do it warm.
I also found that regularly stretching for the biellmann solved a long-lasting and constant back pain I had after a fall I took as a child in the bathroom, bumping my spine against the toilet pot edge.

Also, when I started to stretch, my back muscles did hurt- a kind of burning sensation along the skin during the stretch, and a dull pain a few hours after - not particularly bothersome, nor sharp at any point. At worst, I took 250 mg of paracetamol for it. It was also usually over the next day. I think some pain may be normal but it should definitely not be a lot and not sharp either. The one time I had a sharp pain I had actually pulled a muscle and that kept nagging for about 2 weeks.

Oh and the bridges doubletoe suggested actually give me back aches. I'd do them when the ballet teacher required it, once a week, but I think I'd bust my back doing them every day. Go figure. I guess everyone's different.

[dance2sk8]

Awesome, Sessy! I will try doing some of these. I currently take ballet (so I know that helps), and am trying to get into regular habits of doing back stretches at night. I am no where near catching my foot over my head. I have a long way to go.

[Sessy]

Btw - how do you grab the blade? That does make a difference, actually. If you grab the blade with your elbow to the outside, so simply reaching back, then you block your shoulder and you can't pull up any higher because of that. That is you could, but you'd have to bring the arm to the side and that would take you off balance on skates.

What I do is, hold the foot behild me, parallel to the ice, with the toes out. Then I bring my arm backwards, turning the inside of the elbow to the outside, and trying to get my thumb to point inside. Then I put my middle finger through the blade from the upside down, and then I pull up.
I've seen different methods of pulling up and this one works best for me. I'm not saying it should work best for you, but it does seem to be a very rare method - nobody else at my rink, except the coach who taught it to me, seems to do it because it's tougher at first - so that's why I thought I'd describe. In the video at the link, I do a spiral that way, not sure if you can see it or not.

[SkatEn]

Hmm. Talking about biellmann, how do you do one that is stretched from the leg and not the knee? I know people can grab their blades, but being that it's bent at the knee. How do you do one with straight knee? Is it hip flexor or back flexibility that is required?

Pst. I find using ankle weights help a lot. And if you don't want to wear your skates, grab your heel.

[rsk8d]

What everyone seems to be forgetting about is the hip. You need to have sufficient flexibility and mobility from the anterior (front) side of your hip. If the hip flexor (psoas) is tight, you will not be able to extend properly. If this muscle is tight, and you try and force it back, you will end up putting too much compression on your spine. The psoas attaches to your last 2 lumbar vertebrae anteriorly, and a biellman will compress these levels by pulling them forward. I would avoid excessive repetition of back extension stretches, as it won't increase your mobility very much. Every person has a certain degree of joint mobility (not to be confused with flexibility- it's the actual available motion in the joint capsule) that will not be changed with muscle stretching. You may actually cause damage to the spinal joints by repeatedly stretching the back muscles and forgetting the hip. Stretch your hip flexors! Hope this helps!

[Sessy]

That's a very interesting point you're making.

I've always felt that I had pretty poor muscle flexibility (it's pretty darn impossible for me to touch my toes, even was so when I was stretching daily) but joint mobility has always been very good. I can bend myself in crazy shapes as long as my knees are bent, and I can do a trick with my thumbs where they look like they've been dislocated and can be moved in any direction because the base joint of the thumbs can be turned like 90 degrees in its socket, LoL. :twisted: Creeps people out. Anyway now I'm thinking maybe that's why the biellmann was ridiculously easy for me, almost easier than the normal spiral, and not so much the dislocated vertebrae from my childhood.

Could it be? That the key to the biellmann is not flexibility, but joint mobility? 8O Maybe the only flexibility you need for the biellmann is to the extent that muscle tightness does not interfere with your natural joint flexibility in the spine and hips?! 8O

[Skate@Delaware]

i've always been curious about the maxiflex. i don't know anyone in the rink who has one. can anyone give a testimonial that it is worth the money? currently i have also been doing the cobra pose, and also an old exercise we used to do in ballet when i was a kid, where you do the cobra pose, but lift your calves in an attempt to touch your toes to your forehead 8O i was never able to do that one but i was definitely better at it at 11 than i am at 28 :twisted:
I have the maxi-flex and altho I don't use it all the time, it does help. I use it for balance training as well (put foot in cradle hike it up to hip height and stay in spiral position while raising torso. Doing this really helps me to balance). There is a yoga pose called the bow-basically where you start in superman/cobra then bend your knees and grab your feet, then arch. You hold that for several breaths.
What everyone seems to be forgetting about is the hip. You need to have sufficient flexibility and mobility from the anterior (front) side of your hip. If the hip flexor (psoas) is tight, you will not be able to extend properly. If this muscle is tight, and you try and force it back, you will end up putting too much compression on your spine. The psoas attaches to your last 2 lumbar vertebrae anteriorly, and a biellman will compress these levels by pulling them forward. I would avoid excessive repetition of back extension stretches, as it won't increase your mobility very much. Every person has a certain degree of joint mobility (not to be confused with flexibility- it's the actual available motion in the joint capsule) that will not be changed with muscle stretching. You may actually cause damage to the spinal joints by repeatedly stretching the back muscles and forgetting the hip. Stretch your hip flexors! Hope this helps!

Doing the frog/bound angle pose will help. If you can't frog all the way, use blocks or pillows to support yourself and use a strap, allow the weight of your legs to pull them down. Another one, and I don't know the name, your behind is against the wall, legs are upright on the wall and you allow the weight of them do drop so they are "v-ing" on the wall.

There are a lot of stretches and yoga poses that help stretch and strengthen the whole core and hip area. You might want to look into them.

[kayskate]

A true Biellmann pose has never been a goal I have worked toward, but you can see my attempt in 2003 here:
http://www.skatejournal.com/stretch3.html

In my yoga class, we use straps for stretching. I have not tried one for improving my catch-foot spirals. Maybe I will try it on Mon and report back. It may be a much cheaper alternative to Maxiflex, which I have never tried and cannot comment on.

In an interview at a pro comp or show several yrs ago, Denise said she warms up for 45 min before she does the spin on ice. I thought that was interesting that she needs that much warm-up and flex work to do her trademark spin. She was around 40 at the time. I gathered from that the pose is not easy even for an adult who can do that position.

Kay

[Skittl1321]

I can't say much about back flexibility (I don't have any!) but I have a maxi-flex, and need to start using it again! When I was using it I found that it was a good help to increase flexibility when strength was lacking. However, as the flexibility gained, I then really needed to do the same stretches without it to gain the strength to hold my leg.

[Skate@Delaware]

I can't say much about back flexibility (I don't have any!) but I have a maxi-flex, and need to start using it again! When I was using it I found that it was a good help to increase flexibility when strength was lacking. However, as the flexibility gained, I then really needed to do the same stretches without it to gain the strength to hold my leg.

I found a good way to use the maxi-flex for stretching AND strength-building (for a spiral) is to put your foot in the cradle and raise your leg as high as you can, keeping a little slack in the line. Hold that position for about 15-30 seconds, then pull the line up for some stretch, hold again, then push against the strap (pushing down) for about 10-15 seconds. Then lift your foot UP and hold as long as you can. Repeat this about 2-3 times, each time going a little higher.

Do this several times a week only after you are very much warmed up (never stretch like this with cold muscles, you could injure yourself).

[Kat12]

I'm gonna resurrect an old thread, guys--sorry.

Have been thinking lately of trying the Maxi-flex. I've never been very flexible--even as a kid I couldn't get the splits all the way down (though I guess I didn't try very hard--I don't recall being told about stretches to help, and if i had I probably wouldn't have done them much anyway). I suspect much of my problem is the hip flexibility...or perhaps it's back. Or both in combination? I can get my leg UP, for the most part, it's just getting head and leg to meet. I guess maybe that IS back. I dunno.

How strong does a door need to be for this thing, anyway? The doors in my apartment sorta suck--you know, those flimsy hollow-core things. Even the entrance door (yeah, let's not talk about how I feel about THAT--the only thing between my apartment and anybody who busts into my building could be easily kicked through???). Obviously I don't want to be paying to replace any doors!

I used to regularly practice the cobra pose to try to improve my backbend, but I ended up stopping because it started causing me stiffness and mild lower back pain after awhile.
I seem to find this too with the cobra...when I'm doing it, it just feels like it's compressing my spine in a very non-beneficial way.

What I do is, hold the foot behild me, parallel to the ice, with the toes out. Then I bring my arm backwards, turning the inside of the elbow to the outside, and trying to get my thumb to point inside. Then I put my middle finger through the blade from the upside down, and then I pull up.
I tried this a couple times (off-ice) after seeing it on Youtube, and i still can't do it, lol. (and forget doing it by just grabbing my foot--I can't twist my arm around that far. I can only do it if I'm wearing skates and grabbing the blade. No clue why. I suppose because I can "cheat" by twisting my foot out to be able to grab the blade?) I start to pull my leg up, but somehow my elbow locks in the straight position and I can't get it to bend so I can pull up further. I suppose it's possible I just don't have the flexibility yet to pull my leg up further, but it really felt like I could get the leg up further if I didn't have my arm all weird.

A true Biellmann pose has never been a goal I have worked toward, but you can see my attempt in 2003 here:

That's very similar to mine, too--or rather, my catch-foot spiral; as I said, Biellmann attempts go sour--except my upper body is a bit more upright.

I daresay my catch-foot looks similar to hers (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Zhang_and_Zhang_2009_FOI_spiral.JPG). Off-ice when stretching, I can get my foot higher because I can grip on my ankle/calf and not be limited by my arms (what on earth can I do about my arms, folks??). Cross-catch does not get so high--I feel like I'm twisting or something, which must mean I'm doing it wrong (feels like I'm expecting my leg to do all the work of crossing, rather than leg and arm meeting in the middle, which I assume is the object of it). More like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Yuka_Ishikawa_Spiral_2006_JGP_The_Hague.jpg), I suppose, but with a more upright upper body. A little better if I use my other hand to support the knee. I've never tried it on-ice--my balance for a cross-catch sucks enough on dry land.

I've always wondered....for hip flexibility, would using the hip abduction (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rudy7n.jpg)/adduction (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/rudy7o.jpg) machine help? Especially for turnout and such (*ahem* for those of us who have okay turnout off the ice but when it comes to stuff like mohawks ON the ice, all turnout suddenly goes on vacation....or is that just me?)?


ETA: I found a Youtube video on the Maxi-flex from Rainbo Sports. I didn't watch it as my computer's got a bug where it doesn't want to play sound from the 'net, but it might be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYMkeFbaz50&feature=youtube_gdata

[rsk8d]

The hip abduction/adduction machine will make you tighter in those muscle groups, as the machine is for strengthening. It is also very non-functional, meaning you rarely use those muscles that way while sitting down.

Regarding the cobra pose, you are exactly right- you are compressing your spine and it could cause lower back pain.

[Skate@Delaware]

I don't like doing the cobra pose, so I do the one where (not sure what it's called) you lay on your stomach and tighten your glutes and lift your legs off the floor along with your shoulders....head stays looking down. It feels good in combination with the bridge pose (and the one-legged bridge).

I need to work on my hamstrings....sitting in class and at the computer is making me tight again....

[sk8joyful]

I am flexible (almost can do the splits, a few more months and I should have it).
However, I want to work towards a Bielman position. I can pull my leg pretty high, but what can I do to gain more back flexibility?
I started doing back stretches at home almost every night (yoga position). What else can I do? Anyone have some success on gaining for back flexibility as an adult?

ooh, a Biehlman is one of my dreams, erm goals too, lol - what a great thread! Thanks for all the suggestions! :D