Skate Shop Experiences

[slusher]

I went with one of my recreational students (and her mom, a friend) to help the skater get new skates. Then we were going for lunch. The daughter wanted a pair just like she had but bigger. She skates well in them but they're too small. How hard is it to buy that?

When you run into bad staff at a skate store, then it's hard. The saleswoman we had was arrogant and actually wouldn't bring out the skates we wanted.

I do know that as a coach, that as of this moment I have immediately stopped referring skaters there. This isn't my preferred skate shop, but I don't dissuade parents from going there, but now I will. If I send someone in for Coronation Ace, I don't want them coming home with Pattern 99, which is what almost happened.

[dbny]

That's really infuriating! It's a good thing you went with them.

[ibreakhearts66]

I had a terrible skate shop experience recently as well. I was helping a mother choose skates for her two kids, as the person at the skate shop knows absolutely nothing about figure skating. The entire time she was trying to figure out what size to have him bring back from the warehouse (he didn't have them in stock, but needed to drive a few minutes to pick them up), he was sighing and rolling his eyes. When he finally did come back with the skates, he brought back a girl's 9 instead of a ladies' 9 for one of the pairs. Instead of apologizing, he continued to be rude and blamed the parent (literally said, "It's your fault"). He was completely out of line the entire time. I don't know if the parent picked up on the attitude as well as I did because she didn't speak English too well and was preoccupied with finding skates, but if I were a parent, I wouldn't even want to go back to the rink, much less the pro shop after the way he behaved.

[SkatEn]

You know, sometimes a bad experience will turn the customers away, but when the shop holds a monopoly, it's tough not to patronise it - unless you want to take a risk and shop online.

I have SEVERAL experiences. Take note that in this region (southeast asia), skating isn't a big thing. Still, when you're in a business, I do expect them to know more about skating equipment!

1. For my first pair, I didn't know any better and got fitted with size 255(25.5cm) RF4s. Was told it's a month old, little usage from previous owner. Experience then told me it was more than a month old but definitely rather new. The worst is that I got fitted the wrong size, and the blades are apparently not going from heel-toe. While having it a little shorter is fine, coach said the toepick was too behind. My feet measure about 23.5 cm. It was a comfort and not very snug when I tried on a friend's 235 risports. Geez. I had to stop for a month and wait for new skates - from the net this time.

2. Friend and I were in a neighbouring country and she was looking to sharpen her Paramounts. The skate shop person has NO IDEA what are paramount blades and started asking where she got that kind of blades. He was saying Paramounts are inferior because it's not one piece, and the colours are gimmicks, colour will come off soon, poor metal quality, got cheated of money when he heard how expensive they are, that it will fall out, advised us not to buy paramounts again. The whole times i was thinking, who does he think he is? If you don't know anything, don't say a word! :frus:Of course he didn't know how to sharpen them. And we walked away, thinking, yeah right.:roll:

3. Local skate shop didn't mount my skates well and brought it to the rink to complete the job. There was no waterproofing (probably why my screws are getting loose now:x), and one screw went in slanted. What was I thinking when I went into a hockey-oriented shop, even though they sell tights and beginner skates?

4. Said skate shop didn't sharpen my skates even though I left it there for 3 days. I remembered them saying the sharpening guy will be back from a Europe business trip soon. So the next week, I asked a friend to bring it down for sharpening. A week after the day I originally asked, the sharpening guy is still not back. Geez. If they're not sure, don't make promises!

I don't know where to sharpen my skates now. I left it with a foreign coach from China last time, and it came back with a deeper ROH and I am still scraping ice when I spin. I recently saw he sharpens them with a handheld sharpener. Granted, it's sharp, but way too sharp and deep, and he charges too much compared to the rink that closed down. The proshop said they know how to sharpen, but... let them touch my babies? I'm apprehensive.

:giveup:

[CanadianAdult]

I'm lucky to have found a good fitter although it's a day trip, twice, once to order and once to fit, mount and take home. It's run by an current skater so there is lots of questions about balance point on the blade, heavy or light jumper and foot problems of course.

I have learned one great thing though is that any skate fitter who tells you that a boot that hurts will soften up once you break them in is full of baloney. The only thing breaking is your feet.

[looplover]

Ugh, I was incorrectly measured for custom boots at my pro shop in Florida and it was a huge pain - had to have new boots made, was worried the shop was going to charge me for both but they didn't. I'm pretty skittish since then.

A good experience though that I didn't learn of until much later - when I did receive my new boots, I took them to a public session at the Ellenton rink - they still didn't feel right, so I went to the pro shop and they offered to heat mold them for me right there. So I'm going on and on about adult skating thinking I was talking to a hockey kid. Yeah that was actually Mark Ladwig :-P

I didn't realize this until much much later...

[Isk8NYC]

Even though they're twins, sometimes I can get away with "handing down" skates from one sister to another. We usually get an extra few months out of at least one pair of skates this way. Sooner or later, I have to buy the second pair though.

When the hand-me-down recipient needed new skates a few months ago, I called my pro shop in NYC, but they wouldn't be able to get the boots/set for a few weeks.

So I called a few local pro shops to see if anyone here had the model and size in stock. I lucked out with one place about 45 mins away. The guy on the phone confirmed that he had the boot I wanted with a stock blade, and he could move her current blade.

We got to the shop about an hour before closing. He measured her, then went in the back and said "last pair in that size - give me about 20 minutes and I'll change the blades." So, we puttered around for a while, then came back and waited in the shop.

It seemed to be taking a long time, when he came over and apologized. Turns out that the BOX had the right size, but the BOOT was in the wrong box! The skates were for her current size (so the blade looked okay - same as her current boots) -- he had already mounted the blades on the wrong skates!

Poor guy - it was late, he was tired, and he made a mistake. They found the right boots in the other skates' box and he took care of the mounting, fitting, heat molding and sharpening quickly. He even sharpened my skates for me, gratis!

[TreSk8sAZ]

Ugh, I was incorrectly measured for custom boots at my pro shop in Florida and it was a huge pain - had to have new boots made, was worried the shop was going to charge me for both but they didn't. I'm pretty skittish since then.



I was incorrectly measured TWICE for customs, and I did have to pay for both pairs - and now my new pair when I get back on the ice. Unfortunately, we didn't know the first ones were so wrong until I seriously injured myself and have had two surgeries in two years. Fun. :frus:

[RachelSk8er]

We're lucky to have Skater's Edge here in Cleveland (they have 2 shops and actually come to my rink a few times a month to sharpen and look at skates, too). They really know their stuff. I've heard of people coming to them from all over the Midwest.

I have had good luck online. I bought my last pair of boots from skatebuys.com...but I've been wearing the same size/brand of boots for years so I was able to go the online route and save myself a lot of money (boots were cheaper that my local place and I didn't have to pay taxes on top of that and shipping was free). The first pair they had sent to me (directly from Riedell) had defective soles, but I sent them back and they got a new pair out to me right away. I've also ordered blades online, but again, they're the same blades I've been wearing for years (Ultima synchro).

[CoachPA]

We're lucky to have Skater's Edge here in Cleveland (they have 2 shops and actually come to my rink a few times a month to sharpen and look at skates, too). They really know their stuff. I've heard of people coming to them from all over the Midwest.

That's who I've used for almost 10+ years and I love them! I make over a two-hour drive (from the Pittsburgh area) to get my skates sharpened and they've fitted me for my last two pairs of custom Harlicks.

Carl is absolutely wonderful! I could not be happier with the time he takes to correctly fit and sharpen my skates; no complaints here. I've recommended the shop to several of my students who now also make the lengthy treck to Cleveland. The drive is so worth it! :bow:

[flo]

I've been going to the same person for about 15 years. It's usually a 1-2 hour drive, but well worth it! I have had some problems with my skates, but it's not the fault of the fitter. I think if you're in this sport long enough, you'll have a lemon pair of boots.

[Sessy]

Singapore skater, sounds like that pro filer thing Query has been advertising around here might be really good for you!

[Sessy]

I was incorrectly measured TWICE for customs, and I did have to pay for both pairs - and now my new pair when I get back on the ice. Unfortunately, we didn't know the first ones were so wrong until I seriously injured myself and have had two surgeries in two years. Fun. :frus:

Same thing here. Sort of. I didn't realise how wrong a risport fit was for me until I tried on grafs. Also, the blade mounting was all wrong (they weren't on right) so I couldn't learn to spin at all.

No wonder really - they were bought at a skating shop that's infamous for sharpenings that take toepicks off! But at the time I didn't know better at the time.

[SkatEn]

Singapore skater, sounds like that pro filer thing Query has been advertising around here might be really good for you!

Pro-filer...Well I've searched it online and at eBay. I'm a bit squirmish about doing my own blades. Is the end result the same as a sharpening from the wheel?

---
I'm thinking what a better sport it would be if the proshops are all equipped! Skaters learning loop will not get RF2 Super (Mao wears them), skaters learning stroking will not be sporting pink Paramount blades... People can actually progress at their potential!

[RachelSk8er]

That's who I've used for almost 10+ years and I love them! I make over a two-hour drive (from the Pittsburgh area) to get my skates sharpened and they've fitted me for my last two pairs of custom Harlicks.

Carl is absolutely wonderful! I could not be happier with the time he takes to correctly fit and sharpen my skates; no complaints here. I've recommended the shop to several of my students who now also make the lengthy treck to Cleveland. The drive is so worth it! :bow:

Yeah, Carl and Chris always take good care of everyone. I'll usually call ahead, let them know I'm coming on my lunch hour (since it's close to work) and they'll take care of me then. I've had the past 2 sharpenings done by Rich out of the Lakewood shop (which is closer to home), I actually really like how he's been doing them, too. I've only been going to them for a few years but no complaints! They did overboot a friend of mine--there is no reason a petite (110 pound at the most) 24 yr old adult just-turned-bronze skater not even working on an axel yet needs to be in Reidell 2010s, and she's had problems due to the stiffness. I'm kind of surprized at that. That's really the only issue I've heard.

I used to have everything done at Fritsches, a hockey chain in the area that has since gone out of business. My uncle worked for them for YEARS. They didn't really carry a lot of figure skates (mostly just Riedells, Risports and some low-end stuff), but he could get me what I wanted at cost and he really knew what he was doing when it came to fitting, sharpening, etc. A lot of local people would go to him, too. There were days where after synchro practice, I'd load up the trunk with most fo the team's skates and take them over to him. (My only gripe was the time he talked me into Risports, which I HATED.) Plus I didn't have to pay for sharpenings. He works in another field now that the shop has gone out of business, but from the time I started skating until 3 yrs ago, he was the ONLY person allowed to touch my skates.

Is anyone in Rochester NY? I lived there for a year and had my skates sharpened by some guy who would work out of what was more of a ballet apparel store in Fairport. He was good, too. He was the first person, other than my uncle, who I let sharpen my skates.

[Sessy]

Pro-filer...Well I've searched it online and at eBay. I'm a bit squirmish about doing my own blades. Is the end result the same as a sharpening from the wheel?

---
I don't know, I haven't tried it. It does seem to me like you're left with very little choice though.

[Kim to the Max]

Is anyone in Rochester NY? I lived there for a year and had my skates sharpened by some guy who would work out of what was more of a ballet apparel store in Fairport. He was good, too. He was the first person, other than my uncle, who I let sharpen my skates.

There are a lot of folks at my rink in Syracuse who take their skates out to Rochester...they load up laundry baskets full and everyone takes a turn driving out there. I usually end up going to a shop that is open in Camillus, but have used Dale before.

[Morgail]

Upon recommendation, I went to Rainbo Sports in Chicago for my skates a few years ago (wow, I think it's almost 3 years, now!!). I made an appointment with John, I believe, since we were driving 5 hours to get there. Even though the place was super busy, we had great service. I got exactly what I needed. I definitely wouldn't hestitate to make that drive again for a new pair of skates. However, my coach has had good experience with a fitter much closer to home, so I'll probably give him a try next time.

As for sharpenings, I take my skates to an older gentleman who sharpens skates at his home. He's the sweetest person, does great sharpenings, and tells fun stories about show skating in its heyday. :D

[Query]

Singapore skater, sounds like that pro filer thing Query has been advertising around here might be really good for you!

Advertising... Hey that's not fair. I'm not in business, though I've considered it, as an unemployed scientific ex-programmer. I wish I had all the skills and resources to open a pro shop, but don't. Besides, there are too many here, and I don't want to compete with people who showed me stuff. Besides the things I like to do economize. So what if I could increase their skate and blade lifetime, or adapt used skates. That isn't a profitable way to run a business.

I don't even think Pro Filer is all that great - The holders are pretty clumsy, and get in the way. Their directions are less than ideal, and I think water is a better lubricating agent, and less messy, than the oil they provide. And I pretty much have to take my Matrix blades out of their mounts to sharpen them, which gradually strips the heads. And they need more hollow sizes. But I don't know of any better equipment at this time.

Pro-filer...Well I've searched it online and at eBay. I'm a bit squirmish about doing my own blades. Is the end result the same as a sharpening from the wheel?

I ordered direct from http://www.pro-filer.com but shipping and handling were expensive, and not all browsers can see their site. Rainbosports.com and a few others resell them. Or try
"pro-filer" sharpening figure
at a search engine like http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22pro-filer%22%20sharpening%20figure&ei=UTF-8&fr=opera2

The end result is not the same. Hand sharpening produces a much sharper edge - meaning the metal at the tip is thinner. Some skaters, like me, love that, some skaters hate super-sharp edges. They might be able to sharpen a little less, and then dull it by skating carefully for a few minutes - I don't know, as I can't figure out how to skate on dull blades, and don't know why some people prefer it.

The thinner edge doesn't last quite as long, but this is more than compensated by the fact hand sharpening wastes much less metal. It only takes a few minutes, once you get used to it.

The blade has to start out reasonably sharp. It would take a very long time, and would wear out your expensive stone too much, to start with a flat blade, or with a blade with the wrong hollow.

You need to experiment. My first try, I sharpened my outside edge higher than my inside (I think?), and had to redo it. With patience, you will get it. But a small child, or an elderly person with shaky fingers, might cut themselves.

Someone should sell an inexpensive light duty machine sharpener, designed to semi-automate the process for figure blades, with a few customizable options, that everyone could buy. I've seen one (too expensive, made for rinks) for hockey blades. (It was a vending machine. Was warned not to let it touch a figure blade.)

Or someone should sell a low priced hand sharpener of similar design to pro-filer, but with less clumsy holders.

But I don't get it. How can anyplace not have a decent pro shop? If anyplace has enough skaters to support a rink, how come one of them, doesn't open one? Maybe run it out of their home, by appointment. Many coaches know enough. Some skating moms could use the extra money to support their kids. If the rink doesn't have something, maybe they would let one put up a little ad.

[RachelSk8er]

There are a lot of folks at my rink in Syracuse who take their skates out to Rochester...they load up laundry baskets full and everyone takes a turn driving out there. I usually end up going to a shop that is open in Camillus, but have used Dale before.

Dale! That's his name! He was good. I'd drive from Syracuse to Rochester to have him do mine when I was a grad student at SU, too, if they couldn't wait until a trip home to Cleveland (boyfriend at the time was a grad student at RIT so it wasn't like it was out of my way, I was usually in Rochester every other weekend).

[Stormy]

They did overboot a friend of mine--there is no reason a petite (110 pound at the most) 24 yr old adult just-turned-bronze skater not even working on an axel yet needs to be in Reidell 2010s, and she's had problems due to the stiffness. I'm kind of surprized at that. That's really the only issue I've heard.

Interesting that you say that, the place I've been going to (I alternate between two shops) said I should get the 2010s as well, even though I wanted the 1310s. You know the problems I had with Jacksons last year and I'll never be overbooted again. I really think the 2010s would be too stiff for me, they feel like solid rocks when I pick them up. When I do get new skates after ANs, I'll really have to be firm that I want the 1310s.

[RachelSk8er]

Interesting that you say that, the place I've been going to (I alternate between two shops) said I should get the 2010s as well, even though I wanted the 1310s. You know the problems I had with Jacksons last year and I'll never be overbooted again. I really think the 2010s would be too stiff for me, they feel like solid rocks when I pick them up. When I do get new skates after ANs, I'll really have to be firm that I want the 1310s.

How are the 1500s on you? The 2010s don't seem to be a whole lot stiffer. At least it's more reasonable for you, since you're working on doubles. But we have kids/teens at my rink who are doing doubles and, in some cases, a triple or two, but are in 1310s because of their size/weight.

I'll probably go with 2010s next pair, but I weigh A LOT more than you and Kristin, and I've been in Royals and then 1500s and I don't think something less stiff would be the right move for me when I'll be starting doubles soon. Not sure when new boot time will be though, I'm hoping to squeak out another season in the current pair.

[SkatEn]

The end result is not the same. Hand sharpening produces a much sharper edge - meaning the metal at the tip is thinner. Some skaters, like me, love that, some skaters hate super-sharp edges. They might be able to sharpen a little less, and then dull it by skating carefully for a few minutes - I don't know, as I can't figure out how to skate on dull blades, and don't know why some people prefer it.

The thinner edge doesn't last quite as long, but this is more than compensated by the fact hand sharpening wastes much less metal. It only takes a few minutes, once you get used to it.

The blade has to start out reasonably sharp. It would take a very long time, and would wear out your expensive stone too much, to start with a flat blade, or with a blade with the wrong hollow.
...

Or someone should sell a low priced hand sharpener of similar design to pro-filer, but with less clumsy holders.

But I don't get it. How can anyplace not have a decent pro shop? If anyplace has enough skaters to support a rink, how come one of them, doesn't open one? Maybe run it out of their home, by appointment. Many coaches know enough. Some skating moms could use the extra money to support their kids. If the rink doesn't have something, maybe they would let one put up a little ad.

When you mean thinner edge, do you mean sharper blades or a smaller radius of hollow (which produces a deeper "grove")? Profiler sounds like tough stuff to me. I think that could be what the coach at the rink did to my skates. Still so sharp that I scrap a lot of ice during sit spins (and sometimes conveniently sit on it:roll:).

I hope some company comes up with a cheaper and better sharpening alternative. But they probably think that skating industry is too small and not worth the investment. :??

Regarding the proshops in Singapore... Well, some of you know chowskates here right? She has an online store and some friends got their boot and/or blades there. The only other physical store is hockey-oriented and stocks beginner figure skates. It is in the same mall as the only rink in Singapore. The only rink is not Olympic size and is run by the same management as the mall. (I reserve my comments on the management.:roll:) It takes less than an hour to drive from one end of Singapore to another, on a good day. One coach though, can fit skaters with SP-Teri, but there's just no stock on hand to let you try it out. The rink banned lessons on weekend, and certainly doesn't survive on us figure skaters. We need them more than they need us. :giveup: /rant

--
A little off topic: what do you all think about the cushy LS series? Are they too cushy to the extent that it seems never tight enough?

[Stormy]

How are the 1500s on you? The 2010s don't seem to be a whole lot stiffer. At least it's more reasonable for you, since you're working on doubles. But we have kids/teens at my rink who are doing doubles and, in some cases, a triple or two, but are in 1310s because of their size/weight.

I'll probably go with 2010s next pair, but I weigh A LOT more than you and Kristin, and I've been in Royals and then 1500s and I don't think something less stiff would be the right move for me when I'll be starting doubles soon. Not sure when new boot time will be though, I'm hoping to squeak out another season in the current pair.


It's hard to compare the 1500s since they were broken in and a little broken down when I got them. They've been fine for me but I have no idea how stiff they originally were when I got them.

[AgnesNitt]

As for sharpenings, I take my skates to an older gentleman who sharpens skates at his home. He's the sweetest person, does great sharpenings, and tells fun stories about show skating in its heyday. :D

I love those old guys. During skate camp I had a guy who not only adjusted my blades, but also sharpened the Big Guys parabolics for $10. I can't even get just my ordinary blades sharpened for that and the Big Guy pays a chunk for his parabolics (plus he has to listen to his technician grumble about the extra work parabolics make)

[dbny]

Pro-filer...Well I've searched it online and at eBay. I'm a bit squirmish about doing my own blades. Is the end result the same as a sharpening from the wheel?


You lose less blade and can sharpen just as much or as little as you like. It does take patience.

When you mean thinner edge, do you mean sharper blades or a smaller radius of hollow (which produces a deeper "grove")?


You buy the Pro-Filer for the hollow you are currently using. That is, you can buy it for 1/2", 3/8" etc. It does not change the hollow. Unfortunately, they don't make it for a 7/16" hollow, which is what I was using. I decided that a sharp 1/2" would be better than a dull 7/16", so I bought the 1/2" size.

[sk8lady]

But I don't get it. How can anyplace not have a decent pro shop? If anyplace has enough skaters to support a rink, how come one of them, doesn't open one? Maybe run it out of their home, by appointment. Many coaches know enough. Some skating moms could use the extra money to support their kids. If the rink doesn't have something, maybe they would let one put up a little ad.

HAHAHA. You're being disingenuous on purpose, right? NO ONE can be that obnoxious by accident! You could not really think that "skating moms" and coaches have so much extra time on their hands that they think, "I know, I'll open a pro shop!"

In our area, we have three rinks. One is run by the city and is used primarily for hockey, so even if they could be bothered with a pro shop, which they can't, it would not have anyone in it who knew how to sharpen figure skates. They strap them in and turn the machine on and hope it turns out all right. Good-bye, toepicks. The second rink is run by the university and is used primarily for hockey. They do not bother with a pro shop either, since the university has a Division I men's team and their sponsors and boosters provide them with everything they need. Supposedly there is one guy there who might know how to sharpen figure skates but I think he is apocryphal. The third rink in our area is privately owned and guess what it's primarily used for? HOCKEY. They actually do have a pro shop which sells some hockey stuff. They could care less about figure skating as you can tell by the sign posted on the plexiglass which is a lovely picture of a figure skater doing a layback which above it says, 'Figure skaters, no jumping or spinning.' (Not that I have anything against hockey since I make a decent chunk of change off running Learn to Play and refereeing, and I have a kid who plays, but still.)
THAT'S how a rink could not have a decent pro shop, guy!! Gee whiz!

[Query]

When you mean thinner edge, do you mean sharper blades or a smaller radius of hollow (which produces a deeper "grove")?

We are way off-topic, and this won't interest most people, but it is the actual edge shape rather than the hollow (which to some extant only applies to the center of the blade and doesn't touch the ice) that is different. I haven't looked at the edge with a microscope, but this is true as near as I can guess:

For machine or hand sharpening:

The radius of hollow depends on the sharpening wheel or stone. With a machine sharpening tool whose wheel rotates across the blade's width, the wheel's radius determines the hollow of the cut. With one that rotates along the blade's length, it's cross section becomes the cross section of the blade, and determines the hollow, and is theoretically arbitrary. More radiuses are available for machine grinders. Though if my guess is right about what happens at the edge, the radius of hollow of hand ground blades is less important, because the hollow-ground part of the blade doesn't touch the ice.

The best sharpeners first use a course sharpening wheel or cyclinder, then a fine one, to make cleaner edges.

Brushing the edge upwards with a flat stone (on the inverted blade), brushing from the mount towards the part of the blade that touches the ice, cleans it up some more, and straightens the edge. (Most sharpeners bend the edge a little towards the center, which may be stronger, but is effectively less sharp, so I don't.) (Some sharpeners brush sideways rather than towards the ice, which makes no sense to me.)

A lubricant/coolant fluid also makes cleaner edges. Water does better than oil, but would boil away at the higher machine sharpening speeds, so machine sharpening people use oil.

(High speed) Machine sharpening:

Because of the high speed, the ends of that arc (along the sides of the blade) are less clean, if the sharpener isn't very careful. The angle of that arc with respect to the sides of the blade determines the effective sharpness, an angle determined by the radius of hollow. If they clean it up well enough, the edge is almost infinitesmally thin at the very tip, but widens close enough to the tip that part of the blade in the ice is thick, and that effects how sharp it feels. This means the blade has a fairly blunt cut into the ice. Unless you choose a very small radius of hollow that is just over twice the blade width to make it thin deeper, but then the whole blade wears away very fast, and each sharpening wastes a lot of metal.

Hand Sharpening:

When you sharpen by hand, using the cylindrical stone, the grinding surface moves more slowly, so everything should be cleaner, and there is time for the metal to be reshaped a bit, instead of just being ground away. In the middle of the arc the shape is truly cyclindrical, but metal is redistributed towards the ends (i.e., towards the sides of the blade, producing a very narrow (thin) lip on each side of the arc (i.e., along the sides of the blade). After being straightened into an edge and cleaned by the flat stone, that edge cuts into the ice better, because it is longer and thinner. The hand-file cut probably looks more like a piece of thin sheet metal extending from the edge, so the thin-ness extends further.

Of course that wears away just as fast as using a very small radius of hollow would on a machine grind. But you can re-sharpen it using less metal, because you mostly reshape rather than grind away the blade.

Profiler sounds like tough stuff to me.

I don't think it is all that tough to use. I'm a complete klutz. Give any normal person an hour or two, and an ice rink to test their experiments, and they will figure out what to do. Once figured out, a few minutes/blade.

I just think it could be better. Specifically:

The handle is opaque metal and blocks seeing the edge you are sharpening.

The bolts that hold the stone inside the handle also make it hard to bring the stone right next to the toe pick, so you either round the first tooth off (bad news) or have to tilt the stone in an awkwards way. I may try removing those bolts, and sliding the stone next to the end, and may try just using the stone without the handle, but each kit costs $90 (for one radius of hollow), so I haven't yet.

(The toe pick and the rest of the blade blocks the ice from touching the part of the blade right next to the toe pick, so that part of the blade doesn't matter, but I think the bolt still blocks too much, especially since everything is opaque and I can't see the blade underneath it.)

There is one problem that is unique to Ultima Matrix (interchangeable runner) blades: The sides of the handle get in the way of the Ultima Matrix (interchangeable runner) mount system, because of the metal side pieces that reinforce the runner. That means that to do a good job, you have to demount, sharpen, then remount. The Marix bolts are very soft metal, and you have to turn them with a very small hex key, which means you gradually damage the head of the bolt as you turn it. In one case I damaged the head enough that no hex key could turn it, and I had to hammer in a cross point screwdriver point instead. Maybe that's why Ultima has abandoned Matrix - the bolts were too trouble prone. They should have used one of the less prone non-proprietary mounts hockey skates use for their interchangeable blades. Since most of you don't use Matrix blades, that problem is irrelevant to you.

NO ONE can be that obnoxious by accident! You could not really think that "skating moms" and coaches have so much extra time on their hands that they think, "I know, I'll open a pro shop!"

I can too be that obnoxious!

I've seen moms who gab or sew dresses while their kids skate. Why not sharpen other kids blades during some of the same time?

(some rinks won't let them. but this is fine print and you won't see it)

Told you I could be obnoxious.


Obviously, I spent some time figuring out how to do everything what I consider to be right, and got some help from Don Giese and other pros. But I've given you everything I learned. So did someone else on this board. And a few other people on the WWW. And elsewhere on this board, I've talked about enhancing the sweet spot while sharpening too, which makes it easier to spin and twizzle, because it is more convex there, and you can feel the desired spot. You could do it by machine, but my description was by hand.

[CanadianAdult]

Oh Query ! I can see some skate sharpening mom ruining the blades of her dear daughter's rival.

I looked into both skate sharpening and proshops last year, and found that the initial cost investment in both machinery and stock made it prohibitive. I did convince the local hockey guy to change his machine over to figure one night a week, and that's where most of the girls go. In regards to proshops, it got too difficult because there was a shop close enough to our town, and the suppliers didn't want to split their business. I thought a little competition in the proshop business would be good, but then the economy tanked.

[katz in boots]

...................

Gosh Query, that was waaaay too long to quote really :lol:, but I do want to comment on some of what you said.

Our Association has been prevaricating for a long time about buying a machine and getting someone trained to use. Hasn't happened yet. I had my Phantoms totally ruined in one 'sharpening' by the guy at our rink, never again!

When I got my matrix freestyles, I bought a Profiler. Because they didn't offer 7/16" I went for 3/8" (6/16"?) I have never had to send my runners away for sharpening and am so glad I now have control over my sharpenings.

I like my blades SHARP, (I can't get the blunt thing either) though not at the expense of changing my ROH. I sharpen my blades when they need it, and that can vary to a quick touch up after 2 weeks, or a more serious workout at 4 weeks, depending on what I've been doing and ice conditions. I have to say the sharpening feels different when I run my finger on the blade, not as sharp as I have had from machine sharpening. Yet I get far better grip & rip with it.

It takes me less than 1/2 hour for the full workout. I use 2 layers of masking tape as the matrix runners are somewhat narrower than other blades. My only criticism is that it would be good to have some sort of handles to make it easier and to give more control. Have thought about knocking something up myself but haven't had the chance.

After 9 months of doing my own blades, I think I've got pretty good at it. I am seriously thinking of offering the service to other figure skaters at our rink. I sure could use the money !:D But as Canadian Adult pointed out, I don't think I would sharpen the blades of anyone I was competing against, just in case;)

[Rusty Blades]

Being in engineering and also having considerable machine shop experience, I did not like the way the only good sharpener handled my blade (removing way more material than necessary) so I learned everything I could about sharpening, a great deal from a figure-skating engineer who produced one of the only scientific papers on the "art" of skate blades (http://www.iceskateology.com/Skateology/Skateology_Manual.html) and built my own machine.

Now nobody touches my blades except me! I also sharpen for a few coaches and a select few serious competitive skaters - I don't have time to do everybody - and I charge substantially more than the "pro shops" because it takes me about 4 times longer to get it 'just right' and my consumables cost is much higher.

[Query]

Ok I’m sorry. I went too far.

First, I should have said "skating parent or guardian" or something. "Skating mom" was sexist and inappropriate. And if I think anyone could do it, why am I unemployed? The answer is, anyone can’t. I know nothing about selling retail, I've never fit boots in a shop, or used motor-driven skate sharpening tools (which are needed if the blades are too flat, or you need to make major changes). I can't afford a big investment. In short, I don't have the background and resources. It wouldn't be ethical to take what pros I respect have shown me when I asked questions in their shops, and use it to compete against them. And there are many pro shops in my area already. It makes more sense where there isn’t a shop within driving distance.

Some but not all skating parents, and some coaches, would have the right backgrounds, time and resources I've seen a few dressmakers design, fit and sell dresses to people in the lobbies of rinks where there is no pro-shop to compete with, and where rink management allows it. I’m just suggesting some people could do the same thing with sharpening, if the rink allows it, and if they wanted to.

The problem of working on a competitor’s equipment never occurred to me. It obviously happens in regular pro shops too, when a skater or skater's parent works in a pro shop. Same potential problems applies to the dressmakers, or to coaches with who compete or with children who compete. All any business person can do is to be open and honest, revealing the possible conflict of interest, so the customer can make their own decisions.

[Mrs Redboots]

Some but not all skating parents, and some coaches, would have the right backgrounds, time and resources I've seen a few dressmakers design, fit and sell dresses to people in the lobbies of rinks where there is no pro-shop to compete with, and where rink management allows it. I’m just suggesting some people could do the same thing with sharpening, if the rink allows it, and if they wanted to.

Most of the sharpeners here keep their equipment at their own home, rather than at the rink. There is at least one peripatetic sharpener, who travels with his machine, but the others all have their own machines, often in their garages. My own coach, after years of talking about it, has now bought a machine and I finally trusted him with my blades, and he did a great job.

[chowskates]

Regarding the proshops in Singapore... Well, some of you know chowskates here right? She has an online store and some friends got their boot and/or blades there.

Hi SkatEn, I have SkateMate, works simlar to ProFilers. However, these will never replace a machine! Nor does it work as well as the stones your Chinese coach has ;-)

As for Query's question about how any place can not have a pro shop when there are skaters... well, the number of skaters here really doesn't justify the overheads of a physical store, or even keeping stock. That's why I set up shop online, and work mainly on per-order basis.