laybacks and headaches?

[ibreakhearts66]

When I do laybacks, I get an absolutely horrible headache for about 10 seconds after I come out of the spin. My head pounds, I can't see straight, sometimes I even start to black out. The faster I spin and the more I lean back, the worse it gets. I assume it's caused by all of the blood rushing to my brain as I spin. Does anyone else experience this or have any suggestions to deal with it? It's not just run of the mill dizziness, but absolutely excruciating pain. My coach and I have started working on my Novice Short, and one of the required elements is a layback. At this point, I have no idea how I can do a good layback with features in my program because of the pain.

[sk8lady]

Do you get this with all your spins, or just the layback? You ought to see a doctor and ask specifically about your blood pressure.

[flo]

There was someone doing a study a while ago about spins and headaches. I've not heard of anyone with high levels of pain after a spin. Definitely soemthing to get checked out.

[CoachPA]

Do you get this with all your spins, or just the layback? You ought to see a doctor and ask specifically about your blood pressure.

My first thought as well.

My sister ran low blood pressure and your symptoms sound very similar to hers: feeling like you could black out; headaches; seeing spots; dizziness, etc.

Long story short, she ended up seeing a cardiologist who put her on a type of medicine (though I can't remember which one) that helped her tremendously. She was also encouraged to stay hydrated because dehydration seemed to be making her blood pressure symptoms worse.

In her case, she was only on the medication for about a year. The cardiologist said she'd likely outgrow her condition, which she did. He also explained that this type of blood pressure problem seems to be common in teenage girl with a thin build, so if you fall into that category, that may make you more susceptible to low blood pressure.

[looplover]

Wow, interesting - I have very low blood pressure and am EXTREMELY dizzy after spins - haven't tried a layback yet but I bet that does figure in - Ibreakhearts66 definitely get a pressure check!

Mine has been 90/54 and I think an even lower systolic one other time, so I could see it.

[hanca]

Wow, interesting - I have very low blood pressure and am EXTREMELY dizzy after spins - haven't tried a layback yet but I bet that does figure in - Ibreakhearts66 definitely get a pressure check!

Mine has been 90/54 and I think an even lower systolic one other time, so I could see it.


Funny, I have exactly the same problem. I have low blood pressure. I haven't tried layback spin either but I am extremely dizzy when I do spins. They said that it would get better with time, that I will get used to the spinning motion but it is not getting better. The only thing that can be done for me is to plan program carefully and put some crossovers after the spins to give myself time to recover. Unfortunately, my head is spinning so badly that I am not able to see which direction I am leaving the spin, so I always get out in a different direction, to my and my coach's frustration. We even had to do four versions of program (with getting out of spin in every possible direction). :)

[doubletoe]

I often see stars after doing my first camel spin of the day, and I have slightly low blood pressure. But it sounds like what's happening to you, ibreakhearts, only happens on the layback spin, so it must have something to do with the way leaning backwards affects specific parts of your brain, spine, etc. I agree that you should get it checked out by a doctor.

[Query]

Reminds me of a would-be kayak instructor a trainer mentioned, who could roll (flip back upright while he was still inside) whitewater kayaks with ease. But when he tried a slow sea kayak roll, he would pass out underwater. He must had an unusual physiological condition too. Could be seriously unsafe.

The trainer refused to certify him.

Could your condition be unsafe too? Are you anywhere close to passing out?

[katz in boots]

Wow, how interesting. We need an Ice Princess-style science geek to investigate the correlation between low blood pressure and spin dizzies.:lol:
I also have blood pressure on the low side (despite being 49 and very overweight :roll:) and also get really dizzy in spins. Never to the point of feeling like I might pass out though, but I don't spin very fast.

I do recall a chiropractor once saying that if you feel faint when tilting the head up & back (as you would in a layback), that it can mean the blood supply to the brain is being impaired. 8O

Definitely get yourself checked out.

[looplover]

This is fascinating because my coach commented on it with me as well. What I do (other than just skate over to the side, which is often) is quickly look in the clockwise direction to turn everything the other way and the dizziness pretty much stops. But I cannot do an iffy jump (re. flip) after a fast spin - cannot happen. Salchow, that one's fine.

[ibreakhearts66]

Thanks for the input everyone. I used to have pretty low blood pressure, but last few times I've gone to the doctor it's been fairly normal. However, I do recall being chronically orthostatic whenever they took my blood pressure and heart rate both sitting and standing. Maybe it's related.

Interestingly enough, I don't really get dizzy after regular spins, and I have fairly fast spins. If I travel a lot, I'll get dizzy, but for the most part, I don't have any problems with spins and dizziness.

CoachPA--I guess I do fall into the category of a teenager with a slim build. I also sometimes get dizzy etc when I go from sitting to standing, and what I feel when doing a layback feel similar, just much more extreme.

Query--Sometimes I do feel like I might pass out, but I don't think I ever would. But I don't really want to find out...

I guess I will try to make a doctor's appointment. Although I'm not sure just how seriously anyone is going to take me...We'll see

[fsk8r]

I'd not say I'm seriously dizzy on spins and laybacks are still well beyond me, but I've been living with the low blood pressure thing for quite a while. I used to be at serious risk of passing out if I stood up for too long. However most of the time when my blood pressure is taken it's normal. The only time it's on the low end of normal is when I have one of the dizzy /fainting episodes.
The doctor told me that there are certain trigger factors for it, standing up for too long, going from sitting to standing too quickly, hot baths / showers. Having worked out the trigger factors I try to avoid them and have less problems these days (I also think I've grown out of a lot of it). But if the shower is too hot it can knock me for six all morning and affect skating. I personally also think it has something to do with low blood sugar, as I can quite often recover from an episode by taking a sugar-hit.
I'm sure you can learn how to manage the dizziness with the laybacks, it's just working out the subtle way of avoiding the situation (or improving it).

[sk8lady]

Reminds me of a would-be kayak instructor a trainer mentioned, who could roll (flip back upright while he was still inside) whitewater kayaks with ease. But when he tried a slow sea kayak roll, he would pass out underwater.

Wouldn't that make him dead, since he wouldn't have been able to snap the skirt off? Sounds apocryphal to me.

[RachelSk8er]

Laybacks are the worse for me, too, in terms of dizziness.

I don't currently have abnormally low blood pressure. I used to in my early 20s but it's gone up to a more normal level because I've gained weight and no longer exercise 4 hrs/day and live off of only lettuce, chicken breast and egg whites like I did in college. Back then, going from sitting to standing too quickly, standing long periods of time, exercising too intensely or showers that were too hot/long would make me dizzy and occasionally black out. I wasn't doing freestyle back then, only spins in synchro programs, but all we did were upright spins and didn't rotate terribly fast/long. They didn't seem to bother me too much.

[Query]

This probably sounds really silly, but does the O.P. "remember to breath"? A lot of people hold their breath when balance is difficult, including spins. It is harder to breath with your spine bent backwards too.

You know, feeling dizzy while spinning is not abnormal, and that inverted head position might not be something she isn't used to yet while spinning.

Sometimes simple explanations, and more practice, can solve problems, without looking for complicated medical claptrap.

Wouldn't that make him dead, since he wouldn't have been able to snap the skirt off? Sounds apocryphal to me.

This is way off, topic, but -

I know and believe the trainer.

He might have pulled the kayaker out, reaching underneath to pull the skirt and paddler out. More likely, he or someone else used a hand-of-god-rescue (sometimes called an unconscious-paddler-rescue, for this very reason) to flip him back up. You thrust yourself hard over the bottom of the overturned boat, to reach the other side with your hand(s), possibly rocking it away from you in the process. Then rock the boat towards you and back up. Sometimes you use one hand or arm to put weight on the side closest you. Widely considered a critically important rescue skill.

Some skirts come off on their own under body weight.

AFAIK, the would-be instructor didn't breath while underwater. That sometimes kills conscious and unconscious paddlers.

(BTW, the same trainer mentions another student who complained because she hadn't been warned to remember not to breath underwater.)