How do I support my 8 year old?

[ukmum]

OK folks I am new to all this and am feeling a bit unsure of myself.

Daughter is 8 and has been having private lessons for about 4 months. She did a very basic group programme before that.

The coach asked to talk to me and told me that my daughter has very "soft knees" and almost perfect line. Can anyone tell me what this means?

She went on to tell me that she thinks she could be really good - better than anyone at the rink. How can she tell such a thing when my daughter is still a beginner? Do coaches say this a lot to get more cash out of you?

Also, and the bit that I'm most unsure of is that she told my daughter she could be the best at the rink. Not sure how to handle this as a) don't want her saying this to her friends b) what if it is just a line? c) what if the potential is there and she doesn't make it, wont saying this sort of thing be damaging.

Lastly, if she does have this potential, and she decides to go for it, what am I in for?

[Sessy]

I don't think you should worry so much about the situation of disappointment if she thinks she's the best at the rink and it doesn't work out in the end - in that end, she'll be a lot more mature than she is now and capable of understanding that simple talent isn't always enough and that there are a lot of different circumstances that come into play. I think what you should worry about is the pressure placed on this 8 year old's shoulders. If she's "the best" and has "great potential", then the pressure to live up to that - especially during performances - is tremendous. You could be looking at performance/exam/stage fear at some point, plus, she could lose the joy in skating.
Another concern. Being very talented isn't enough. To really get somewhere, several hours a day of practice are required. Your kid has to LOVE the sport, not just like it, to pull through. Make sure you're not pushing her into anything. I was an 8 year old who'd do or say anything to please my mother and it didn't work out so well with my piano talent in the end. My piano teacher had finally found herself the one student she thought she could make great and she went far too far with it. Eventually I had my only ever blackout in my life during a performance. I quit. I wish I'd quit earlier.

On the other hand, if she really loves to skate and has the talent, this may be her destiny.

[Clarice]

Soft knees means that she bends them well. It helps with just about everything, and is especially important in ice dance. Lots of beginners skate with stiff knees, which is not desirable. Line refers to body positioning. The coach is probably watching how she extends her legs, points her toes, and carries her arms and body. These things can be taught, but it's obviously an advantage if a skater does them naturally.

At 8, it's far too early to tell how your skater will develop. Having potential is one thing, realizing it is another. Other factors are how athletic the skater is, how determined they are to master various skills, how their body develops physically as they grow, and many other things. I can observe "potential" even in my class of preschool beginners - one has excellent balance for a 4-year-old, one can pay attention and follow directions very well, another never cries no matter how many times she falls down. These kids all have the ability to progress in the sport, but I can't predict how far they will go, or who will go farther.

All you can do is support your daughter as she learns to skate, celebrating her successes and encouraging her when things get difficult. You'll both have more fun if you focus on enjoying the journey rather than what the outcome might be. (However, the one given is that the farther she progresses down the road, the more expensive it will be! :) )

[ukmum]

Thanks to you both. You can see why I am a bit unsure. My daughter loves to skate and I don't want it to be a chore for her, on the other hand if she does have the potential to do well I don't want to stand in her way!

Thanks Clarice for the explanations! I feel silly asking sometimes.

As for athletic my daughter definately is and enjoys and performs very well in every sport she has ever tried. As for skating, she would skate every minute of every day if I would let her. When not skating she practices off ice every minute as well.

I'm very aware of the possible cost in money terms, but what else is involved?

[TreSk8sAZ]

I'm very aware of the possible cost in money terms, but what else is involved?

Time is going to be almost as big of a factor as money will as she gets up in the levels. I'm not quite sure what all goes on in the UK, but in the States, generally skating alone is not enough. Eventually, there are off ice classes (such as ballet, pilates, and/or yoga), fitness and cardio training (on her own or with a trainer), possibly an off-ice jump class, etc. Most likely these are in addition to increasing skating and lesson times. Many elite skaters are on the ice anywhere from 3-6 hours a day, then doing some sort of class or gym time as well.

Depending on her level and coach, there may be group coaching (specialty coaches for jumps or choreography) or there may be a time she outgrows her coach and has to go to a different rink/city/country to train. All of this is speculative, however, and depends on your situation, the coach, and the money you're willing to spend. Some skaters keep the same coach their entire career and do quite well.

At 8 and a beginner, most of the above is simply unnecessary. Maybe some ballet classes to start with, just to help musicality and flexibility, but only if she wants to and it isn't a burden. I would say plan to increase your ice time a bit for each level she moves up, and think about adding the classes as you see fit.

Another thing I think you may already be worried about is jealousy. It is true that some girls in the skating world, if they think another is getting too much attention from coach x or is being told how wonderful she is, might be quite nasty. As long as your daughter is prepared and has a good base of friends at the rink that aren't like that, it doesn't usually become that big of an issue.

I would be a bit concerned about the coach's ethics if he/she has already said your daughter will be the best in the rink. Something to watch out for, since it sounds either like a solicitation line for loads more ice time or simply an unrealistic assessment at this point. That is generally not something that should be said, though it is more often than we'd like. It could have been an entirely honest and innocent statement as well, though, so I'd just ignore it for now and listen more to what your daughter wants.


Sorry, a long post, but just some of the things to think about.

[CoachPA]

I would be a bit concerned about the coach's ethics if he/she has already said your daughter will be the best in the rink. Something to watch out for, since it sounds either like a solicitation line for loads more ice time or simply an unrealistic assessment at this point. That is generally not something that should be said, though it is more often than we'd like. It could have been an entirely honest and innocent statement as well, though, so I'd just ignore it for now and listen more to what your daughter wants.

My first thoughts exactly! Solicitation is a serious ethical issue in this sport. You just need to be wary, which you will learn over time in this sport. Not every coach, skater, official, judge, or parent can be trusted depsite how nice or encouraging he/she may be.

There is a difference between making a comment about a skater's performance ("So-and-so is a lovely skater") and soliciting ("So-and-so is a lovely skater, and if she takes lessons from me, I'm sure she will do so much better than she is now taking lessons from her current coach").

[Debbie S]

I would be a bit concerned about the coach's ethics if he/she has already said your daughter will be the best in the rink. Something to watch out for, since it sounds either like a solicitation line for loads more ice time or simply an unrealistic assessment at this point. That is generally not something that should be said, though it is more often than we'd like. I completely agree with this. Either the coach is young and inexperienced and just likes to run her mouth when she shouldn't, or she's very unprofessional. I've seen a few (sorta sleazy) coaches do this, and typically they're just playing off the parent's lack of knowledge and insecurities as a way to convince them to agree to more lessons (as well as supplemental lessons with coaches that they're buddies with). Personally, I'd stay away from this coach, b/c coaches like that tend to cause all sorts of problems.

As TreSk8sAZ pointed out, most extras are not necessary for a skater at your daughter's age and level. Don't let yourself be talked into anything and don't get caught up in the one-upping that can happen sometimes - parents trying to outdo each other in number of lessons, number of off-ice classes, number of coaches worked with, etc. :roll: It's highly unlikely your daughter will ever go to Worlds or the Olys, so just let her enjoy the sport.

[jskater49]

Count me as another one who would be VERY suspicious of a coach who tells you after a few months that an 8 year old is better than everyone else. Even if true ...I just don't like that kind of philosophy. If she had said "she seems to enjoy it, she's progressing, she works hard..." but I don't like this "She's better than everyone else" Bad way to start.

Joelle

[momof3chicks]

I would be a bit concerned about the coach's ethics if he/she has already said your daughter will be the best in the rink. Something to watch out for, since it sounds either like a solicitation line for loads more ice time or simply an unrealistic assessment at this point. That is generally not something that should be said, though it is more often than we'd like. It could have been an entirely honest and innocent statement as well, though, so I'd just ignore it for now and listen more to what your daughter wants.


.

This is a red flag to me too- my 8 yo dd probably is one of the best 8 yos in the rink, and even her coach doesn't say that kind of thing. I like that her coach tries to let me know how much time she should skate to develop but balances that with what she knows about our $$ and other family obligations.

[dbny]

I would be a bit concerned about the coach's ethics if he/she has already said your daughter will be the best in the rink. Something to watch out for, since it sounds either like a solicitation line for loads more ice time or simply an unrealistic assessment at this point. That is generally not something that should be said, though it is more often than we'd like. It could have been an entirely honest and innocent statement as well, though, so I'd just ignore it for now and listen more to what your daughter wants.

ITA, and also with the other posters who agree. As a coach, I'm very careful about what I tell skaters and their parents. It's one thing to say that a particular skater is doing well or has potential, or even to comment on specifics, like the soft knees, but quite another to make extreme comparisons to other skaters. I would look for a different coach.

Let your daughter call the shots (as far as you can) with skating. If she wants to skate more and have more lessons, and you can afford it, then go for it. If her coach suggests ballet or off-ice exercise, and she is willing, then OK. IMO, the best way to support your daughter is to let the coach do the coaching, and you do the litteral support - that is, the driving, the paying, the cheer leading (but not to excess).

[CoachPA]

IMO, the best way to support your daughter is to let the coach do the coaching, and you do the litteral support - that is, the driving, the paying, the cheer leading (but not to excess).

I think that parents who have this philosophy--that the coach's job is to coach and the parents' job to support (finanicially, morally, etc.)--are the best kind to work with. It makes everything easier: for the coach, skater, the parent-coach relationship, and parent-skater relationship.

[ukmum]

Just need to clear a few things up!

Coach is very experienced as a coach and also competed at worlds level.

She hasn't said she is better - clearly she isn't as she is still a beginner, but that she is making faster progress, is a natural, enjoys it, is confident, learns faster and has the potential to be....

I spoke to the coach today and I can clear up the soliciting bit as she already coaches my daughter. She apologised but told me that she doesn't have any additional slots for her, but wishes she did. She has asked to meet with me and my husband to discuss all this further. - 2 other coaches have approached me trying to poach her and whilst I don't have anything against them I wouldn't move on principle because of the way they approached me.

Yes, jealousy is a big fear! I am already seeing the beginnings of it in nice comments that started from parents as "gosh isn't she coming on well" etc which then changed to "well everyone knows boys take at least two years longer than girls to x y z". My daughter has also told me that one coach in particular keeps staring at her, which is making her uncomfortable. This coach was one of those that approached me.

Skating seems quite political. To be honest I have hopes that my daughter will enjoy skating and do as well as she can, but I don't want it to be the only thing about her. She is bright, active and enjoys sports. It is more the impact of others perceptions on her that worry me.

I am at least reassured that the coach isn't after more cash as she doesn't have the space anyway! I am guessing from this fact alone that she is probably genuine. From here on in I think some time out to think about things and talk to my daughter in more depth about what she thinks she wants at the moment may be in order.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience all the forums in the UK seems to be for adult skaters!

[FigureSk8Dad]

Let your daughter call the shots (as far as you can) with skating. If she wants to skate more and have more lessons, and you can afford it, then go for it. If her coach suggests ballet or off-ice exercise, and she is willing, then OK. IMO, the best way to support your daughter is to let the coach do the coaching, and you do the litteral support - that is, the driving, the paying, the cheer leading (but not to excess).

ITA with dbny, this is the philosophy that I've tried to follow with my dd. Let your daughter take the driver's seat, keep it fun for her and she'll let you know how far she wants to take skating.

[phoenix]

I agree it was inappropriate for the coach to say that, not only to you, but to your daughter! I would never set an 8 year old up for that kind of competitiveness at the rink. I have a 6 yr. old student who is showing some major potential--just this last week, she did a full lutz the first time I showed her a 1/2 lutz & asked her to try it (!), but I was very very careful not to bat an eye, and just said, "okay, now do it only 1/2 way around...." and went on from there. I don't want her to know she's learning faster than most, because as others have said, we have NO idea of what will transpire in the years to come. Let her enjoy her skating, and I'll keep working & encouraging her to work hard. I also refuse to inflate/predict her prospects to her parents because it's just too early--way too early. I just keep saying, "she's doing great, I love how she works so hard, she's improved a lot in xx areas." I will suggest adding another lesson per week in another 6 months to a year, because she'll need the time to do both moves and freestyle.

You haven't mentioned what she's working on, which jumps she has, etc. so it's hard to say if the coach is telling the truth or just being overly gushing for parental relations' sake. Either way congrats on not letting it go to your head & focusing on her enjoyment of the sport.

Anyway, rant over. All that to say I agree w/ the other posters here. I also do think that ballet really is indispensible for a skater who wants to be a successful competitor, so that is definitely something I'd look into if you have a resources.

[Schmeck]

I think a coach who makes broad statements about success and comparisons with other skaters at the rink is either an egotistical mess or an unprofessional nutcase. No one can predict what a skater would be like after 4 months of private lessons. Growth spurt, injury, lack of interest, all these things can change someone's potential in four months...

And just because the coach 'competed at worlds level' doesn't mean he/she knows diddly squat about coaching. I'd be very wary of this coach!

[ukmum]

My daughter has all jumps up to Lutz, has landed axel a couple of time fully rotated but she only started it a couple of weeks ago so not landing it right every time - spins including mushroom, camel, sit and blur and change foot on all of these.

I think it is more about her actual skating rather than jumps etc. She has had one 15 minutes lesson most weeks since mid October excluding the horrendous snow weeks we have had!

Have had a long chat to my daughter - she wants to skate and do as well as she can. Funnily she is not the least bit phased by the possible potential bit! Her attitude was "well I'm good at sport because I like it". My daughter seems happy to take it as it comes, so that is what we will do. As the coach doesn't have any lesosn spaces at the moment then we will wait and see how she feels when the coach does have some spaces.

So long as she enjoys herself and is happy then I will be too.

[Query]

I'm going to disagree completely. (Nothing new.)

There is nothing wrong with any teacher telling a student, or the student's parent, that they are doing very well, and that they could be the best! Don't you love to be told when you are doing well?

Yes, most students and parents who decide to shoot for being the best in the world will be disappointed, because there isn't much room at the top. We've all met a few of those, in this and other fields.

But encouragement is a good thing. It's a large part of what makes life worth living, and what makes activities worth doing.

Would you prefer a coach that told your daughter to stop trying so hard, because her natural ability might make the other students jealous? Or a school teacher that told her to make more mistakes in class, to be more like the other kids? I hope not.

[fsk8r]

I'm going to disagree completely. (Nothing new.)

There is nothing wrong with any teacher telling a student, or the student's parent, that they are doing very well, and that they could be the best! Don't you love to be told when you are doing well?

Yes, most students and parents who decide to shoot for being the best in the world will be disappointed, because there isn't much room at the top. We've all met a few of those, in this and other fields.

But encouragement is a good thing. It's a large part of what makes life worth living, and what makes activities worth doing.

Would you prefer a coach that told your daughter to stop trying so hard, because her natural ability might make the other students jealous? Or a school teacher that told her to make more mistakes in class, to be more like the other kids? I hope not.

I agree, being told that you've got potential isn't the same as being told that you are the best (and the whole big head scenario). And as for the big head and jealousy, you have to learn to deal with this in life anyway, so whether she learns it skating at the ice rink, or in the classroom at school, she's going to need to learn it at some point in life. Life is naturally competitive and we can't hide that from her.

I'd try not to worry too much about the future for your daughter just yet, and just see what the coach is suggesting is best for her. Given that the coach has said that she's fully booked, she might suggest another coach at the rink to help work with her.
Also unless you are overly fond of really early starts, just slowly increase her skating from the current 15min private lesson. I know some kids who at 8 are having 20+ 15mins slots a week. That's a lot of skating, and you can see some of them getting to the point where they resent always getting up early and it's meant to be fun.
And I wish your daughter the best of luck in progressing. We need some more talented skaters in this country but I think we can all worry about that when she's a lot older.

[Mrs Redboots]

I've also seen kids forced on to the ice who are obviously not enjoying it - some of them, to be fair, enjoy it when they get there, but are rather slow at getting started! Others simply aren't having fun, and you wonder why their parents make them persist. That's what not to do!

Also, if you have questions for the coach, try to ask them then and there, rather than e-mailing or telephoning or otherwise disrupting your coach's private life. Sometimes you have to, obviously, if you need to reschedule a lesson due to illness or the dentist or a school trip, but mostly you need to keep your interactions with her in the rink.

Coaches also hate seeing students who, every time they do something, look over for parental approval before looking for correction from their coach - and I've seen that far too often. They also hate it if you start coaching her - supervising her practice is one thing, and an 8-year-old often needs reminded to practice her field moves and stuff like that, but don't coach her. If a skill isn't working, remind her to ask her coach to have a quick look at it.

Having said that, your daughter will probably want and need you to watch her skating! "Look at me, Mummy!" And for tests, when the time comes, and the little competitions she will doubtless start with, you will need to be there with other family members to cheer her on!

[ukmum]

Yep I always stick to only talking to the coach at thte rink. Also I only watch my daughter when she asks as I tend to skate in a corner while she is skating. I try to avoid the gaggle of mothers who all sit in a corner and ##### about coaches and kids. Also it is far too cold to sit and watch the whole time!

I guess I am lucky as I have never had to remind my daughter to practice anything so far. Her coach has given her a list of things to practice and she just works through it. She has also palled up with one of the senior girls who skated at the British Championships and they just run through things together. My bigger problem is getting her off the ice!

[sk8lady]

I hate to enter the realm of vivid speculation, but I wonder if the coach is sucking up to you a little bit to keep you from taking your skater to another coach who actually has a full lesson slot for her! Is 15 minutes a typical amount of time for skaters at your rink? We generally give 30 minutes here if the kids are fairly serious about it.

[Mrs Redboots]

I hate to enter the realm of vivid speculation, but I wonder if the coach is sucking up to you a little bit to keep you from taking your skater to another coach who actually has a full lesson slot for her! Is 15 minutes a typical amount of time for skaters at your rink? We generally give 30 minutes here if the kids are fairly serious about it.
I don't know where the OP's daughter skates, but the default lesson length at my rink (also in the UK) is 15 minutes; if you want a longer lesson, you have to say so.

[ukmum]

15 minute slots is standard here, although some skaters will do lots of 15 minute slots!

The coach knows we won't move - my daughter was adamant who she wanted and still is! Coach also has a rather long waiting list.

Met with the coach again today - to talk about how we feel, how daughter feels and what would be best for her. Coach said to change emphasis of lessons and practice slightly to more advanced edge and footwork rather than do more jump etc as she feels reason skaters sometimes stall is insufficient skating skills rather than jumps etc. If skating skills are put on a back foot jumps suffer later.

Had a long talk, my daughter wants to go as far as she can. Coach talked to her about how her attitude and approach shouldn't change, how she must only skate while it is still fun and importance of her friends at the rink etc. Coach also warned her about potential jealousy at how she is progressing.

Daughter already does ballet, tap and trampolining as other hobbies, but coach suggested doing an edge class with some senior skaters who have a dance coach. This was the only extra thign she suggested. She has arranged for us to have a couple of free trial sessions as she knows our finances post credit crunch! We met the edge coach who agreed with current coach about potential.

Coaches are asking for NISA (our governing body in UK) to come and visit for their talent ID as might be able to get some help with costs of ice time etc.

Am feeling much more confident following the meeting. My daughter was very clear in expressing herself which in a meeting with 2 coaches plus parents is quite something! She spelled out what she was and wasn't willing to do - only 2 early morning per week on school days!

[fsk8r]

15 minute slots is standard here, although some skaters will do lots of 15 minute slots!

The coach knows we won't move - my daughter was adamant who she wanted and still is! Coach also has a rather long waiting list.

Met with the coach again today - to talk about how we feel, how daughter feels and what would be best for her. Coach said to change emphasis of lessons and practice slightly to more advanced edge and footwork rather than do more jump etc as she feels reason skaters sometimes stall is insufficient skating skills rather than jumps etc. If skating skills are put on a back foot jumps suffer later.

Had a long talk, my daughter wants to go as far as she can. Coach talked to her about how her attitude and approach shouldn't change, how she must only skate while it is still fun and importance of her friends at the rink etc. Coach also warned her about potential jealousy at how she is progressing.

Daughter already does ballet, tap and trampolining as other hobbies, but coach suggested doing an edge class with some senior skaters who have a dance coach. This was the only extra thign she suggested. She has arranged for us to have a couple of free trial sessions as she knows our finances post credit crunch! We met the edge coach who agreed with current coach about potential.

Coaches are asking for NISA (our governing body in UK) to come and visit for their talent ID as might be able to get some help with costs of ice time etc.

Am feeling much more confident following the meeting. My daughter was very clear in expressing herself which in a meeting with 2 coaches plus parents is quite something! She spelled out what she was and wasn't willing to do - only 2 early morning per week on school days!

You should be able to find some information about the Talent ID criteria on the NISA website. I know there are certain targets that skaters have to meet at certain ages to be eligible, but as I'm well over any target age, I don't really know the details.

It also sounds like you've got a really good coach. I've heard coaches say many times that certain talented skaters get stuck at a certain level because they've not done the basics when they're younger and it's really hard to get them to go back and correct fundamental mistakes once they're at a higher level. It's good to know that her coach is recognising this early on. And the coach may have a waiting list, but she may prioritise who gets the extra slot when it becomes available (as in taking your daughter for extra versus taking on a new student), although with the credit crunch you'll be hoping that she doesn't find space too soon for all the extra lessons!

And good on your daughter in spelling out how many mornings she wants to do at the moment. If she's got some say in her skating it might keep her motivated for longer and help keep the fun in the sport. The number of mornings / lessons can always change as she progresses (although I'm sure you'll start wishing for some lie-ins when she gets really good!).

[isakswings]

15 minute slots is standard here, although some skaters will do lots of 15 minute slots!

The coach knows we won't move - my daughter was adamant who she wanted and still is! Coach also has a rather long waiting list.

Met with the coach again today - to talk about how we feel, how daughter feels and what would be best for her. Coach said to change emphasis of lessons and practice slightly to more advanced edge and footwork rather than do more jump etc as she feels reason skaters sometimes stall is insufficient skating skills rather than jumps etc. If skating skills are put on a back foot jumps suffer later.

Had a long talk, my daughter wants to go as far as she can. Coach talked to her about how her attitude and approach shouldn't change, how she must only skate while it is still fun and importance of her friends at the rink etc. Coach also warned her about potential jealousy at how she is progressing.

Daughter already does ballet, tap and trampolining as other hobbies, but coach suggested doing an edge class with some senior skaters who have a dance coach. This was the only extra thign she suggested. She has arranged for us to have a couple of free trial sessions as she knows our finances post credit crunch! We met the edge coach who agreed with current coach about potential.

Coaches are asking for NISA (our governing body in UK) to come and visit for their talent ID as might be able to get some help with costs of ice time etc.

Am feeling much more confident following the meeting. My daughter was very clear in expressing herself which in a meeting with 2 coaches plus parents is quite something! She spelled out what she was and wasn't willing to do - only 2 early morning per week on school days!

It sounds like you are getting things together. :) That's great. It's also nice that your coach is trying to help you find ways to afford this sport. In the US, it seems to be very hard to find help in that area...even with very talented individuals. Good luck!