Talking yourself out of a jump!

[sk8ryellow]

Does anyone else have this problem? I recently landed my double flip on wednesday and I have been landing it ever since. Yesterday I tried it again and everytime I tryed it I would fall and right when I would go into it I would scare myself by saying to myself that I might fall and its going to hurt. My coach keeps telling me to visualize the jump. Any other thoughts on this?

[CoachPA]

Does anyone else have this problem? I recently landed my double flip on wednesday and I have been landing it ever since. Yesterday I tried it again and everytime I tryed it I would fall and right when I would go into it I would scare myself by saying to myself that I might fall and its going to hurt. My coach keeps telling me to visualize the jump. Any other thoughts on this?

Have you ever fallen on ice in the driveway or on the sidewalk and had it hurt really bad? Did it prevent you from ever walking in the snow again? Probably not because you knew you had to, even if just to drag yourself off the ground and into the house or car.

Well, skating's similar. You're likely just bailing on this jump because, unlike walking in the snow, you don't think you have to [land it].

If you're issue is mental, which is sounds like it is, you have to force yourself to just go for the jump. Think of executing the jump just like walking in the snow--like something you have to do. Perhaps you can even tell yourself that mentally as you enter the double flip: "walking" on the first part of the three-turn, "in the" on the second half of the three, and "snow" when you pick in and jump.

Sounds silly--and it is!--but I've used this trick on several students and for some reason, it really does help! :lol: That's probably because when you think about why you're freaking out on this jump and compare it to something as silly as being scared to walk in the snow because you once fell on ice and it hurt a bit, the whole scariness factor gets put into perspective.

If, on the other hand, your falling is caused from poor technique (as you've just started landing the jump), perhaps going back and breaking it down step-by-step will help correct technique errors. Sometimes skaters will get overly confident in the first stages of practicing a jump and can develop weird habits because of that.

[Sessy]

I had that all the time when first learning my singles. Whenever I caught myself doing that I'd force a fall. Finding that it actually didn't hurt as badly as I imagined, I could then practice with a peace of mind.

I apply the same principle to everything else. Wednesday I had a bit of a collision with my car in the parking lot - one scratch on the bumper of my car and the other car, nothing serious. Still I was shaking about sitting behind the wheel again so I did so as soon as I had the chance again - even though I could've let mom do that. Now I'm not afraid anymore.

Fears need to be cut off as early on as possible. The longer you wait to get rid of them, the bigger they get.

[Black Sheep]

Sometimes, I still do. I tend to "quit" my harder jumps while I'm still rotating because I'm "flying blind", fearing I'll run over another skater while trying to land it. I'd rather visualize getting myself all the way around.

[looplover]

Story of my life...re. the flip! :frus:

I know I've fallen on it but never so bad that this should be happening.

[doubletoe]

For me, the only way to get rid of destructive thoughts is to replace them with helpful ones. If I don't have something I'm supposed to be thinking, that leaves a vacuum where distracting or destructive thoughts can come in and mess me up. That's why I've come up with specific cue words for each element and I use those cue words every time I practice it. The cue words remind me of correct technique on each stage of the jump or spin, and also give me the timing. Maybe you and your coach can come up with cue words that help you as you set up, take off, pull in and land your double flip.

[singerskates]

I have a combination of jump problems.

1. Re-acquiring jumps I once had. (I'm not yet there [Had upto the 2 Salchow before getting injured but only upto trying to perfect the flip and Lutz.])

2. Playing it safe to avoid messing up my herniated discs.

3. Herniated discs have played havoc with my arms' timing. Arms are too slow to react compared to the rest of my body.

4. Timing for Loop, Flip and Lutz still not discovered since coming back on the ice in Jan. 2007. (Had serious injuries at work in Feb. 2005. ) I had to relearn everything because when I went back on the ice (Nov. 2006), I was just getting back to walking normal again, never mind skating. Just stroking took work to get to the point that I wasn't going to fall over because I was so weak. I had to rebuild my body.
I'm close but so far no cigar.

I'm not freezing conciously but sometimes I find that my body just won't do what my mind wants it to do when I jump. Surprizingly, it doesn't happen on the Loop, Flip and Lutz. It happens on the single Salchow which I can land 99% of the time. I also find that I have trouble bringing in my arms on jumps. That's right, I've been fully rotating my jumps all the way up to the Lutz with my arms open. On my Waltz jump, Salchow and Toe Loop, if I bring in my arms just part way, I end up getting an extra 1/2 rotation and that's when my brain starts to panic because before the 2005 injury, the only time I would fall was when I was attempting the Axel and doing the 2 Salchow. I think the reason, I'm still stuck in Adult Bronze is that my inner brain is trying to make it impossible to start working on the Axel and 2 Salchow again. And so, I freeze on the Salchow.

[sk8ryellow]

Have you ever fallen on ice in the driveway or on the sidewalk and had it hurt really bad? Did it prevent you from ever walking in the snow again? Probably not because you knew you had to, even if just to drag yourself off the ground and into the house or car.

Well, skating's similar. You're likely just bailing on this jump because, unlike walking in the snow, you don't think you have to [land it].

If you're issue is mental, which is sounds like it is, you have to force yourself to just go for the jump. Think of executing the jump just like walking in the snow--like something you have to do. Perhaps you can even tell yourself that mentally as you enter the double flip: "walking" on the first part of the three-turn, "in the" on the second half of the three, and "snow" when you pick in and jump.

Sounds silly--and it is!--but I've used this trick on several students and for some reason, it really does help! :lol: That's probably because when you think about why you're freaking out on this jump and compare it to something as silly as being scared to walk in the snow because you once fell on ice and it hurt a bit, the whole scariness factor gets put into perspective.

If, on the other hand, your falling is caused from poor technique (as you've just started landing the jump), perhaps going back and breaking it down step-by-step will help correct technique errors. Sometimes skaters will get overly confident in the first stages of practicing a jump and can develop weird habits because of that.

Thank you sooo much! I tried your technique and I was landing Double Flip after Double Flip and now I'm not scared of it and working on Double Lutz!:P

[RachelSk8er]

That's my axel. All the issues I have with that jump are in my head. Ugh.

[peanutskates]

I landed it, lost it for 3 weeks, landed it, lost it for a week, landed it, landed it next day, lost it for 5 weeks and counting.

Sometimes I'm really close, and am just touching the free foot down (so landing 2 footed). Other times I'm completely out, not even 1 rotation. It's getting worse off-ice as well. I hardly ever fall on it, so it could be an unconscious fear of falling, though I'm so mad at myself for not landing it, I WANT to fall, if only to feel that correct landing edge beforehand...

I don't know what I want - guidance, advice, sympathy?? Please... someone help me!! :(

[sk8ryellow]

Sorry to break it to you but...

The Axel is pure evil but it is perfectly normal to land it and lose it. It took me a month to get mine consistent. Once you get your axel theres no turning back. ALL of your jumps from now on wont be consistent once you land it.

[CoachPA]

Sorry to break it to you but...

The Axel is pure evil but it is perfectly normal to land it and lose it. It took me a month to get mine consistent. Once you get your axel theres no turning back. ALL of your jumps from now on wont be consistent once you land it.

Yes, I have yet to have a student who lands the axel and does not lose it. It's a natural part of skating unfortunately.

[AxelBaby]

sk8ryellow....do you mean to say that everyone struggles with consistency from the axel and beyond?!?!

Because if so, this would certainly make me feel better about my inability to land the axel and doubles. I have started to think that I am the only person in the entire world that can do something right three times in a row then have it dissapear again. Fifteen minutes later it may be back, sometimes the jumps stay away for a week or so. This happens with the axel and all of the doubles that I have learned.

It is quite possibly the most extreme sense of frustration that I have ever experienced. Because I never had this problem with any of the singles or any spins.

Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting for the day when I land every axel I try, or every double toe. But maybe that just doesn't happen with the higher level jumps...

[sk8ryellow]

sk8ryellow....do you mean to say that everyone struggles with consistency from the axel and beyond?!?!

Because if so, this would certainly make me feel better about my inability to land the axel and doubles. I have started to think that I am the only person in the entire world that can do something right three times in a row then have it dissapear again. Fifteen minutes later it may be back, sometimes the jumps stay away for a week or so. This happens with the axel and all of the doubles that I have learned.

It is quite possibly the most extreme sense of frustration that I have ever experienced. Because I never had this problem with any of the singles or any spins.

Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting for the day when I land every axel I try, or every double toe. But maybe that just doesn't happen with the higher level jumps...

Of course that happens with consistency in the double jumps. Altohugh there might be one that you get consistent right away. You may work on your Double Sal. for a year and land it every day after you land it or may not land it again for another month. Everyone is different. I know one person who was able to land thier axel and keep it.

[doubletoe]

sk8ryellow....do you mean to say that everyone struggles with consistency from the axel and beyond?!?!

Because if so, this would certainly make me feel better about my inability to land the axel and doubles. I have started to think that I am the only person in the entire world that can do something right three times in a row then have it dissapear again. Fifteen minutes later it may be back, sometimes the jumps stay away for a week or so. This happens with the axel and all of the doubles that I have learned.

It is quite possibly the most extreme sense of frustration that I have ever experienced. Because I never had this problem with any of the singles or any spins.

Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting for the day when I land every axel I try, or every double toe. But maybe that just doesn't happen with the higher level jumps...

Yeah, don't hold your breath, LOL! I got all of my single jumps within a year and had no major trouble with them at any point since then, but the axel, double sal and double toe have been a whole new ballgame. After landing my first axel, I could land them consistently for the first few months, then started waxeling for no apparent reason. I got it back and lost it, got it back and lost it ad nauseum for the next 5 years! I only now have it "completely figured out" (but sshhh! Don't tell the Skating Gods or they'll take it away again!). For awhile, I had to land a double sal before I could get up the courage to go for an axel, but now, other than occasional guest appearances, my double sal has been on a leave of absence for the past year. :(

[sk8ryellow]

Ahhh the journey of jumps. I just landed double flip and my coach had me trying double Lutz's today and I got them fully rotated and not checking out. It just reminds me of how hard its going to be to get the Double Lutz!

[peanutskates]

ehh. After a total of about 35 minutes of axels (spread out during 1 hour), I landed one. Then the next one, I landed but fell on my hip, and instantly, it regressed to being 2 footed. Which leads me to think that my unconscious is just desperate to protect my body. Then it got pretty close (literally just landing with my feet crossed), and the session finished.

I'm feeling somewhat more hopeful, though. (typically, my coach was standing practically next to me, but didn't see the axel...) Maybe on Friday?

sympathy and empathy to everyone who is also struggling! <3

[sk8ryellow]

I sympathize with you for landing with your feet crossed, thats how my Double Lutz is!

I also sympathize with your coach not seeing your axel. Yesterday I landed about five double flips before my coach saw any of them! And she was standing in front of me. All she saw were the crappy ones.

But now I am going to Cyber yell at you!

TAKE OFF THE TRAINING WHEEL! ALL OF YOUR LANDING TWO FOOTEDNESS AND LEGS CROSSED IS YOUR FOOT ACTING AS A TRAINING WHEEL. GO AHEAD TAKE IT OFF RIGHT NOW BEND DOWN AND SLAP YOUR FOOT SO IT WILL COME RIGHT OFF.

P.S. I should take my own advice and Cyber yelling. LOL

[peanutskates]

thanks sk8ryellow :D

i did just slap my foot, hopefully it has got the message.

if my theory is correct, that I need a certain number of 'training' jumps, to convince myself that I'm not going to fall, then I'm stuffed, since it's taken me about 5 weeks of 'training' to finally land one.

OK. no "training" tomorrow. the free foot is getting a telling off tonight, and it had better stay off the ice! :D

[doubletoe]

Congratulations, Peanutskates! I have soooooo been there! LOL!

Something I forgot to mention when I was telling you about walking yourself through the jump with cue words: I always go back to waltz-loop or waltz-loop-loop in-between axel attempts if the axel feels weird at all. Most of the problems on the axel can be fixed by getting the waltz-loop fixed first, then going back and doing the axel.

[peanutskates]

yup, doubletoe, I do waltz/loops in between bad axels, too =)

anyway, thank you soo much. I thought of the cue words, and landed it a few times on friday, and today, too! =D (even threw in an axel/loop there woop)

[sk8lady]

TAKE OFF THE TRAINING WHEEL! ALL OF YOUR LANDING TWO FOOTEDNESS AND LEGS CROSSED IS YOUR FOOT ACTING AS A TRAINING WHEEL. GO AHEAD TAKE IT OFF RIGHT NOW BEND DOWN AND SLAP YOUR FOOT SO IT WILL COME RIGHT OFF.



Wow! So did her foot come right off?
That would make it REALLY hard to skate! :D

[doubletoe]

yup, doubletoe, I do waltz/loops in between bad axels, too =)

anyway, thank you soo much. I thought of the cue words, and landed it a few times on friday, and today, too! =D (even threw in an axel/loop there woop)

That's great! Sounds like it's definitly on its way back! :D

[CanadianAdult]

The flip is my mental jump. If I say, I'm going to go do a flip I would need someone to tell me what foot goes first and which arm goes where. This is not a good thing. However, if I do a certain step sequence just before where I want to flip, ta da, a flip. I did it for so long in a program out of a sequence at a certain point on the ice that I'm incapable of doing it elsewhere. I should really work on that, but I don't really care ;)

[sk8ryellow]

HA I guess it just takes time to land our jumps