How to stop? (for beginners)

[silvester]

Hello,

Firstly I`m sorry, maybe this topic is discussed million times, but I couldn`t find it. I tried to use the search engine, but it didn`t work for me. :frus:

So the questions :)

Today I tried this

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HUW1hWyliKk&feature=related

, but I feel very unconfortable. I cant manage to find the way to stop :x. Please give me an advice. Particulary for weight distribution and the foot position.
On which edge I should stop, inside or outside?
Should I press very hard?

I also tried this one

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I7THBwRKjdA

It feels "more like me", I feel enough stable but still I`m scared, because I felt very bad once.

Finally, Should I practice more or IT will come with the time spent on the ice?

Thank you all in advance :bow:

p.s. my ice skates are Nike Bauer Flexlite 14, and these are my first ones

[dbny]

This should really be in the On Ice - Skaters (http://www.skatingforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16) forum. You will get a lot more help there. I'll answer here anyway. There are some very important things left out of the first video. Before you attempt to stop, stand on two feet, with your feet about shoulder distance apart. Stretch your arms in front of you about waist height. Bend one knee very deeply, and scrape the ice away from you with the other foot. Scrape straight out to the side, not back at all. Do this with both feet, one at a time. When you are comfortable with that, stand the same way, bend both knees, stretch your arms and hands in front of you about waist height. Now point your toes together just a bit, and push out with both feet at once. Look straight ahead, do not bend at the waist. Very important: Arms in front - Knees down - Look ahead. When you can do this standing still, take just a few steps to get moving slowly and try it again.

The second video is for crazy people who can already skate :lol:. I know the guy who does it, Dan Percival, and have coached him a bit in some basic skating techniques. He invented Xtreme ice skating and is trying to make it popular, but you really have to be a very good skater first.

[silvester]

...

Thank you so much. :bow:

Tomorrow I will continue with the practice. :D

[Query]

The "Snowplow stop" (the second one DBNY described), in which you turn both feet in towards each other (meaning the toes point part way towards each other), is suggested as the first learned stop by most skating organizations, as well as by most ski organizations.

Many people instead teach what DBNY described first - the "half snowplow" in which you only turn one foot inwards.

Both require fairly good balance, so you don't fall forwards flat onto your face, and some flexibility, because some people don't have much turn in at the hips or ankles.

Your second video shows a fast "hockey stop" - very good balance and fast reflexes are needed. That's why the demonstrator wears protective gear.

If either works for you, wonderful!

If they don't, here is one that I think is easier. Most people can learn it in a few minutes.

Swing your arms somewhat forwards (a natural instinctive move when you need to stop or are about to fall) then swing both arms around you to wrap around one side (e.g., both to left or both to right). You will slow spin around, which will stop you. Try this first while standing still, then while moving slowly, then while moving normally. It's easy!

Stay as relaxed as possible (including those arms), so if you do fall or hit something, you won't get hurt! It takes very little energy.

My stop won't pass any tests, nor will anyone call you graceful. It doesn't have a name. But it stops you faster than the snowplow, or beginner versions of the T-stop (another stop that requires delicate balance).

[silvester]

YES! I did it today.

Not perfect, but I think good enough snowplow, but only with the right foot, I have real trouble with the left one. Still, I`m very pleased that I did from the second time. 8-)

I`m doing it, just like dbny told me. I bend my left knee very deeply and I stop with my right foot. I`m doing it with good speed, so I leave 5 yards scrape. I think it is good?:roll:

My mistake is that I keep look at my foot but I think I`ll make it better. :D

I also tried to stop with both legs, but I feel unstable, so I`ll continue to practice it.

Thank you all, again, the things which you described were very usefull for me.

[dbny]

The "Snowplow stop" (the second one DBNY described), in which you turn both feet in towards each other (meaning the toes point part way towards each other), is suggested as the first learned stop by most skating organizations, as well as by most ski organizations.

Many people instead teach what DBNY described first - the "half snowplow" in which you only turn one foot inwards.

Looks like I wasn't clear as both of you have misunderstood me. I only described one stop - the standard two foot snowplow. The part where you think I am describing a one foot snowplow, is in fact an exercise to be done before attempting the stop. Note, that I said "Before you attempt to stop, stand on two feet", not skate. It's important to get the feel of scraping with each foot first, then go on to use both feet at once, while standing still. Finally, one skates and attempts to stop with both feet. A few people do find the one foot snowplow easier, and I look for that when teaching, and move them along to that stop.

YES! I did it today.

Not perfect, but I think good enough snowplow, but only with the right foot, I have real trouble with the left one. Still, I`m very pleased that I did from the second time. 8-)

I`m doing it, just like dbny told me. I bend my left knee very deeply and I stop with my right foot. I`m doing it with good speed, so I leave 5 yards scrape. I think it is good?:roll:

My mistake is that I keep look at my foot but I think I`ll make it better. :D

I also tried to stop with both legs, but I feel unstable, so I`ll continue to practice it.

Looks like it didn't matter that I wasn't clear on one foot or two, because you are stopping! Congratulations! Many people have problems applying pressure equally with both feet. Sometimes it's the skates, especially if you are still in rentals. To get both feet working the same, go back to just trying the stop standing still. You could even face the wall and hold onto it, if that helps.

You should be able to stop in much less than 5 yards, even at a good speed. Practice refining the stop at slower speeds. As you get more confident, go faster, but only if you are still able to do a nice, crisp stop. Try picking a spot to stop on, like one of the wide blue lines.

[Query]

Can't speak for everyone, but pushing straight sideways on one or two foot snowplow, I hardly slow down at all. Push diagonally sideways and forwards at the same time for a stronger stop. Center the forwards outwards push at the heels, so the toes turn in instead of out.

Here is an easy way to get into two foot snowplows, if you can do forward swizzles. Do a forward swizzle, but just before your toes come together, suddenly push hard diagonally foward and out through your heels, so your feet skid and scrape ice.

The snowplow stop, like swizzles, requires a fair amount of sideways push strength, which beginners mostly don't have.

(Of course one major goal of the first few months of lessons is to increase of sideways push strength. That's probably why they tell beginners to do swizzles and snowplows. And backwards snowplows work pretty well, because they only require turn-out, not turn in.)

Still think my slow arm-swinging spin stop is easier, and should be taught first.

Of course DBNY is probably a much better skate teacher than me, and turn-in flexibility has always been a problem for me, so my methods may or may not apply to the O.P.

FWIIW, the snowplow stop is easier on downhill skis. Just point the toes towards each other, and lean forwards on the front of the boots. But it's harder on skates, and even harder on cross country skis.

There is always the sit stop... Did they teach you how to fall?

[dbny]

If they don't, here is one that I think is easier. Most people can learn it in a few minutes.

Swing your arms somewhat forwards (a natural instinctive move when you need to stop or are about to fall) then swing both arms around you to wrap around one side (e.g., both to left or both to right). You will slow spin around, which will stop you. Try this first while standing still, then while moving slowly, then while moving normally. It's easy!

Stay as relaxed as possible (including those arms), so if you do fall or hit something, you won't get hurt! It takes very little energy.

My stop won't pass any tests, nor will anyone call you graceful. It doesn't have a name. But it stops you faster than the snowplow, or beginner versions of the T-stop (another stop that requires delicate balance).

The real problem with your stop, is that it is a dead end. It does not lead to a better stop, it is imprecise, and, as you said, it's rather gawky looking. It's also not well controlled. The snowplow stop is the first of a teaching progression that leads to many more stops. Some of them are extremely powerful and precise, and others are used mainly for show (one is even called a "show stop"). As for a fast and easy stop, the one foot snowplow is both, and can be executed gracefully.

[NCSkater02]

There is always the sit stop... Did they teach you how to fall?

The sit stop is my favorite:lol:

[flo]

Ha! When I first started I couldn't stop, but I could do inside eagles until I slowed down!

[Query]

Ha! When I first started I couldn't stop, but I could do inside eagles until I slowed down!

Chances are you have no problem with snowplow stops. My problem was flexibility (which is why the backwards snow plow stops - and for that matter T-stops, hockey stops, and yes, a couple types of show stop - are all easier and faster for me than forward snow plow stops). I need all my strength to create turn-in.

Based on my volunteer teaching experience, a lot of kids have trouble with the snow plow stop, I think because they either don't have the strength to push sideways yet, or they tumble forward. In fact, most take about 6 weeks to learn. Most can learn my clumsy alternative immediately, though a couple kids could not make themselves spin because they were afraid of traveling backwards.

I met an adult first-day beginner today on a public session who asked me how to stop (what a coincidence!). (Like many adult first-day beginners, she had brought her kids, and was holding one of their hands part of the time. I've never thought that a good idea; the adult is sometimes more likely to hurt the kid than help them.) I tried to show her snowplow and hockey stop (no luck - she skated leaning forwards, and started to fall), my style (she didn't like the idea of spinning). She refused to try the sit stop - no surprise there.

Then she showed me her way. She turned around 180 degrees, and tilted up onto her toe picks. Interesting. It did work for her.

[vesperholly]

Still think my slow arm-swinging spin stop is easier, and should be taught first.
Oh hell no. That kind of swing around can make skaters lose their balance very easily. 99% of fear that beginners have is losing their balance and falling painfully. This crazy swinging action will only make it worse. :frus: Furthermore, who can execute such a stop at speed?

Snowplow stops are difficult for beginners, but if taught properly, they should only take a few classes to execute. Most of the time, students who cannot do snowplow stops after repeated instruction simply have very poor quality skates and unsharpened blades. Then there are the jelly legs. :)

I teach my students to "make snow" with their blades. I often draw smiley faces on the ice and tell them to scrape them off. First we scrape ice while holding onto the boards, then I have them scrape out standing still, and then we do it from a glide. Keep the feet together, bend the knees and eyes look up. I ask them to scrape loud enough so I can hear it.

[dbny]

My problem was flexibility (which is why the backwards snow plow stops - and for that matter T-stops, hockey stops, and yes, a couple types of show stop - are all easier and faster for me than forward snow plow stops). I need all my strength to create turn-in.
Flexibility is not your problem with the snowplow stop. The degree of turn out or turn in is set by the architecture of your hips and can be changed very little after the age of two. I've taught many people who have the same problem you have with turn in. The most important thing you can do is to bend your knees deeply. Really feel like you are sinking into the ice as you stop. You actually do not need to get your toes pointed in very much for this stop to work.

Based on my volunteer teaching experience, a lot of kids have trouble with the snow plow stop, I think because they either don't have the strength to push sideways yet, or they tumble forward. In fact, most take about 6 weeks to learn.

I've taught learn to skate for over 7 years, and in my experience, most kids learn the snowplow stop the first time they try - IF they are given the necessary preparation, which is what I described above, and what vesperholly describes below. I also draw on the ice, usually a star, for the kids to scrape off. I sometimes draw a line for them to put their toes on, so one foot isn't behind the other and to help them scrape sideways and not to the back. Bending over at the waist is one of the most common mistakes, ands sends skaters falling forwards over their toepicks. I usually demo a bit of that as a warning :)

Oh hell no. That kind of swing around can make skaters lose their balance very easily. 99% of fear that beginners have is losing their balance and falling painfully. This crazy swinging action will only make it worse. :frus: Furthermore, who can execute such a stop at speed?

Snowplow stops are difficult for beginners, but if taught properly, they should only take a few classes to execute. Most of the time, students who cannot do snowplow stops after repeated instruction simply have very poor quality skates and unsharpened blades. Then there are the jelly legs. :)

I teach my students to "make snow" with their blades. I often draw smiley faces on the ice and tell them to scrape them off. First we scrape ice while holding onto the boards, then I have them scrape out standing still, and then we do it from a glide. Keep the feet together, bend the knees and eyes look up. I ask them to scrape loud enough so I can hear it.

ITA

[badaxel]

I would just like to point out that stopping is not just for beginners! I've been skating almost 10 years and I still can't do it. Do you think they'll let me pass my Novice moves??? (Please say yes!!)

[sk8lady]

I've taught learn to skate for over 7 years, and in my experience, most kids learn the snowplow stop the first time they try - IF they are given the necessary preparation

ITA

Everyone's body is different, and the two-footed snowplow stop is not the easiest stop for some bodies! I never found the two-footed snowplow stop to be particularly easy--I learned the one footed stop, the t stop (both feet), the hockey stop (the stop in the second video--which by the way is not considered advanced for hockey skaters--it's one of two stops which is generally taught, with the t stop being considered the most advanced stop!), and the one-footed hockey stop before I was able to consistently do a good two-footed snowplow! A lot of my adult students struggle with this as well, although plenty of the kids do as well depending on age and concentration level. My adults seem to grasp the one-footed stop more quickly--possibly it's less scary. (My issue seemed to be with coordinating the left hip, which has its own ideas about what it is willing to do...)

[MQSeries]

I can do the T-stop, snow plow stop and hockey stop. The one stop that I've always wanted to master but never did was the T stop variation with the breaking foot in front. It always scared the bezessus out of me attempting it, LOL.

[Sessy]

Stopping is for quitters. :twisted:

[sk8lady]

I can do the T-stop, snow plow stop and hockey stop. The one stop that I've always wanted to master but never did was the T stop variation with the breaking foot in front. It always scared the bezessus out of me attempting it, LOL.

A tango stop!
I coached Instructional Hockey a few years ago with a guy who could not stop any other way. I don't know where he learned it or why he could do it and not one of the more traditional stop and I have never met another hockey dad who could do it, but he was not very pleased to find out it was called a tango stop and not something more he-manny!!

[dbny]

I can do the T-stop, snow plow stop and hockey stop. The one stop that I've always wanted to master but never did was the T stop variation with the breaking foot in front. It always scared the bezessus out of me attempting it, LOL.

I learned it by doing it very slowly as I approached the boards. Believe me I started close to the boards and timed it so I could end with my arms over the boards/on the boards. It's taken a while to feel secure with it, but I'm now doing it off the boards. Still not with much speed though.

[Query]

Oh dear - that's a "Tango Stop"?

What's the difference between a Show Stop and a Tango Stop?

The figure skating director of the volunteer program I was in taught her "Show Stop" by starting behind and to the side, then sliding the braking foot to in front of the other. Some kids found it easier. Seemed harder (and a lot slower) to me.

My fastest stop is the single foot version of the T-stop. But I've never been quite sure how to end it - or the show stop variants - without stumbling forward onto the other foot. I can't hold my balance stopped on one foot for very long.

Some of the kids in that program learned snowplows in a few weeks. Some never really did. I didn't like teaching it, cuz I'm not any good at it, but a lot of my co-instructors had the same problem. (What can you expect from uncertified volunteers?)

We did the scrapy thing (smiling faces were boring, so had fun with funny faces), sometimes with a weight shift, but I don't think it helped that much (though some of the boys with ADD had fun scraping the faces away). It takes strength, which a lot of kids didn't have, and some kids tried to push straight sideways (which doesn't stop as fast) or diagonally backwards. Some kids did better if I tried to teach it by pushing out of the swizzle. Most kids do better if you just show them how to do the move right in the first place. Most of the younger ones don't think things through intellectually, or go through a sequence of steps to the full move - Monkey See, Monkey Do with the right move often seems to work better.

I don't think the Show or Tango Stop, whatever the difference is, would be a good stop, for early stage group lessons. Nor the 1 foot T. They'd end up sprawled all over the ice...

[singerskates]

When I was a CanSkate Coaches' Assistant (A.K.A. Program Assistant or Learn to Skate Assistant), I first taught kids, teens and adults to stop by showing each of them about the inside and outside edges of their blades. Then I'd ask them to stand on their inside edges on both feet. Then outside edges on both feet and then back to their inside edges. Next I would have then stand on their inside edges, bend their knees like they are sitting in a chair with their shoulders over their hips, knees covering their toes so that they couldn't see their toes. The next step I took was to have them push straight out to the side one foot at a time while still on inside edges with knees bent, first to the right and then bring in the right foot, repeat and then switch foot to push out the left. Then we'd finally push out both feet straight out to the side while on inside edges to stop while going slowly forward. This was for level 1 CanSkate.

For Level 2 CanSkate, I'd get people to stop the same way that was done forwards for going backwards, when they were just beginning to learn to change from walking backwards to skating backwards on two feet.
Since Level 2 CanSkate teaches forward and backward Snowmen (skating on two feet, moving both legs in at the same time pointing toes and then out at the same time pointing heels to make what looks like on the ice a string of lemons), this is when the snowplow stop is taught. I teach the forward snowplow stop once the skater can do the forward snowmen at a decent speed by having the skater keeping their toes pointed towards each other while moving and bending their knees even more then they already are into what looks like they are going to sit in a chair with the shoulders above their hips not tipping forward with the head, knees bent enough as to not see their toes and slightly pushing outward on inside edges to cause a skid. It usually takes a skater that I'm teaching the snowplow stop about 5 to 10 minutes to get the stop this way.

[sk8joyful]

Hello,
I cant manage to find the way to stop :x. Please give me an advice. Particulary for weight distribution and the foot position.
On which edge I should stop, inside or outside?
Should I press very hard?

I am still stopping myself at this point,
with a L-snowplow Stop, on an inside edge, so the L-foot is toed-in.
You apply enough pressure to come to a Stop.
at 1st. you may glide longer 'til you get the confidence :) to stop faster, & then fast.

I'm still working on the confidence-part.
.

[Isk8NYC]

...he was not very pleased to find out it was called a tango stop and not something more he-manny!!I think Nova said it's also called a "show stop."