Dance Blades & Three Turns

[dbny]

A few years ago, a coach suggested I try dance blades, saying that three turns would be easier. I posted about that, and everyone said there was no reason that threes should be easier in dance blades. Well, today, after my second ice dance lesson, my dance coach offered to stone my blades for me, and I got a good look at his blades. He commented that they are thinner than freestyle blades, and that makes three turns easier! It makes sense to me - less blade in contact with the ice.

[phoenix]

I can tell you that turns got a lot easier once I got dance blades.

[dbny]

I'm wishing I had ordered them at the PSA conference in May, instead of more Coronation Aces.

[icedancer2]

WEll, I have those thin dance blades and I never really saw the difference in the turns - they are just different.

It't too bad you can't just try out a blade - then you could see if you really liked them before spending all that time and money and putting them on the boots and that...

I'm thinking of dumping the dance blades because they are just too darn short - maybe a synchro blade would be a good compromise...

They make some stuff WAY harder - like spinning... and jumping - if he has the MK Dance you should ask him about jumping in them - there is very little to land on and the picks are blunted along the sides - I know for some people it wouldn't make any difference (like those elites who seem to be able to do anything in them) for for the average skater, I think it would be hard.

It's funny with blades - certain special features will make some things easier but some things harder.

I do figures in my dance blades, though and don't really see the difference even with the back turns...

Anyway, I digress.
Lisa

[RachelSk8er]

I'm thinking of dumping the dance blades because they are just too darn short - maybe a synchro blade would be a good compromise...



I think it is. I wear Ultima Synchros blades (which, by the way, are only around $130). The toepick is a good size, doesn't get in the way for dance but isn't too small for jumps, and the heels are just long enough for jumps without being too long.

I had them originally because I was doing synchro (obviously) but have since gone back to doing dance and picked up freestyle too. After so many years in dance and synchro blades, I have a perfectly good, very gently used pair of MK Gold Stars hanging around from when I was in college but I'm afraid to switch, I'd probably kill myself with a longer heel and I'm afraid I won't like them (don't really remember how they felt when I wore them). I am adult silver so working on an axel and have kinda toyed around with a double toe, but I definitely know skaters who are doing much harder jumps in synchro blades just fine (axels are permitted in synchro only in senior, other levels allow the rest of the single jumps as well as spins--including flying spins, so obviously they're ok for some freestyle. Ultima will tell you theirs are fine for jumps through a double lutz). Other manufacturers make synchro blades, not sure how much they have evolved to meet the changes in synchro over the past several years...from what I remember, MK and Wilson's synchro blades still were closer to a dance blade (which is what synchro blades essentially started out as when they were first making them), but that may have changed.

I wore dance blades for quite a few years, never really noticed any difference in 3 turns between a dance blade, the freestyle blades I wore at one point, or my current synchro blades.

[phoenix]

They make some stuff WAY harder - like spinning... and jumping - if he has the MK Dance you should ask him about jumping in them - there is very little to land on and the picks are blunted along the sides - I know for some people it wouldn't make any difference (like those elites who seem to be able to do anything in them) for for the average skater, I think it would be hard.


Yah, it's crazy--my coach can still do double axels in those thin MK dance blades w/ basically no toepicks! :bow:

[dbny]

Yah, it's crazy--my coach can still do double axels in those thin MK dance blades w/ basically no toepicks! :bow:

There's nothing like technique!

[icedancer2]

I think it is. I wear Ultima Synchros blades (which, by the way, are only around $130). The toepick is a good size, doesn't get in the way for dance but isn't too small for jumps, and the heels are just long enough for jumps without being too long.



But are they thin like the MK Dance and Super Dance 99?

At this pint I don't think it will matter much to me - and I certainly like the price!

Yah, it's crazy--my coach can still do double axels in those thin MK dance blades w/ basically no toepicks!

I've heard of axels and loops, but I think toe-jumps would be impossible (unless of course you are a super-genius elite -type... I really wonder how the ice-dancers do all of that toe-stuff in them... like are they really in the same MK Dance that I wear or are they modified somehow so they don't kill themselves?).

dbny - if you wear a 10 1/4 blade I have a pair of gently used Super-Dance 99 (thin dance blade with good picks - you can actually jump and probably spin in them) and a pair of pretty old MK Dance that you could try - anyone on this list is welcome to them...

[icedancer2]

There's nothing like technique!

And the same goes for 3-turns I think because in the MK Dance I still cannot do a RBI 3 and the LFI is also difficult - the LBO comes and goes... I think those three are somehow all related to my left hip and have nothing to do with the thickness of the blade.

[aussieskater]

But are they thin like the MK Dance and Super Dance 99?

No, Ultima Synchro is the same blade thickness as a FS blade. It's basically a short Ultima FS blade, so has the 8' rocker and the Ultima straight-cut toepick. The blade heel extends about 7mm past the back of the boot at the boot's "backest" (:P) point (it's the bit of the boot which sticks out furthest behind you, and is just below your Achilles tendon.)

[mintypoppet]

He commented that they are thinner than freestyle blades, and that makes three turns easier!

Define "easier"! My dance blades turn more quickly and cleanly, not least because of the higher toepicks (MK Dance). Therefore they definitely turn more easily.

However, I still can't do BI3s properly in either my dance or FS blades, so they don't make the turns themselves any easier to do without the right technique.

[hanca]

I don't have the experience with dance or synchro blades, but when I was learning 3turns, I found that the sharper the blade was (and smaller the radius of hollow) the easier it was to do the three turns. It did not skid as much and the three turns were quicker. And it always felt more secure. It is not issue for me now anymore, but a year ago it was.

[herniated]

I resurrected this because I have a related question. I currently wear Pattern 99 and am thinking about getting dance blades for my next pair.

So...here's the question. Pattern 99 have an 8' rocker and I've seen some dance blades also with an 8' rocker. Would keeping the rocker the same make for an easier transition?

[CanSkate_Rules]

one big thing is when you transition to the dance blade is that you will notice that you rock to the front right away and slip off the picks.... what i'm talking about is in freeskate blades once you hit ur toe you stop however in mk dance blades you just keep going and actually pattern 99 are very close to dance blades

[Query]

I have in front of me Ultima Matrix 9-3/4" Dance and Synchro runners. FWIIW, the Synchro runner is substantially shorter.

I can't tell you whether that applies to non-Matrix mount Ultima blades, but I thought they were supposed to be the same.

I recently posted a blade modification (enhancing the sweet spot) I used to make it easier to spin, turn and twizzle, at least if you are willing to do them at a set point:

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=28070

If you sharpen your own blades by hand, it would be easy to try.

[herniated]

one big thing is when you transition to the dance blade is that you will notice that you rock to the front right away and slip off the picks.... what i'm talking about is in freeskate blades once you hit ur toe you stop however in mk dance blades you just keep going and actually pattern 99 are very close to dance blades

That's good to know re: that dance blades are close to Patt 99. My blades still have about a year to two left but I may switch out sooner than that. And I'm not sure if I'm going back to free skating yet.

[fsk8r]

I resurrected this because I have a related question. I currently wear Pattern 99 and am thinking about getting dance blades for my next pair.

So...here's the question. Pattern 99 have an 8' rocker and I've seen some dance blades also with an 8' rocker. Would keeping the rocker the same make for an easier transition?

I've just done exactly this. I've just bought a pair of Jackson synchro boots and ultima synchro blades (wanting something for dance). I specifically chose the blades because they were meant to be the same rocker as my freestyle ones (ISE Sterling). Other than losing my tale on my skates, the blade feels pretty much the same (even the sweet spot is in exactly the same place!).
My only comment on them is that I'm missing my tale on my blade and so I'm still terrified of back 3's on them (one foot happy other still on strike) but I'm only up to two hours of ice time on them, so it's still early days and there's all the boot breaking in issues.
But I can at least say that I've managed to get matching rockers between the boots and so far I'm thinking that it was a smart move as at least the feel of the ice hasn't changed.

[herniated]

That's good to hear. I too am concerned about losing the heel length or as you say the tail of the blade. But I'm not getting new boots for a while so the adjustment may be easier.

My dance coach says the dance blades gives the ability to make footwork 'neater', since the long heel is gone.

[fsk8r]

That's good to hear. I too am concerned about losing the heel length or as you say the tail of the blade. But I'm not getting new boots for a while so the adjustment may be easier.

My dance coach says the dance blades gives the ability to make footwork 'neater', since the long heel is gone.

Your dance coach is probably right (they seem to always be!). There certainly seems to be less to trip over and it should be easier to get the foot closer when doing mohawks and the like. (I'm still terrified I'm going to step on some bit of blade that's no longer there!)

[icedancer2]

That's good to know re: that dance blades are close to Patt 99. My blades still have about a year to two left but I may switch out sooner than that. And I'm not sure if I'm going back to free skating yet.

You might like the Wilson Super Dance 99 - they are basically a Pattern 99 with slightly smaller picks (I think) and the shorter tail. They have an 8-foot rocker and shorter stanchion - closer to the ice than other blades - like the pattern 99.

The MK dance have a completely different feel (7 foot rocker, very tiny smooth picks - I can't spin or jump in them at all although some people claim to) but when I was in the super Dance 99 I could both spin and jump (for what it was worth, LOL).

[Mrs Redboots]

I can't spin or jump in them at all although some people claim to) but when I was in the super Dance 99 I could both spin and jump (for what it was worth, LOL).
But now dancers have to be able to spin, and most of the senior dancers I know are in MK Dance... they can all spin very happily!

I might look into the Super Dance 99 when I replace my blades, probably towards the end of this year.

[icedancer2]

But now dancers have to be able to spin, and most of the senior dancers I know are in MK Dance... they can all spin very happily!



I know - maybe it's just me - but the way one spins in a dance spin is different than doing a scratch spin - anyway, it is probably just me but I could spin just fine in the Super Dance 99 and not at all in the MKs.

[mintypoppet]

In the UK, we have to spin in solo free dance. I do find it less hard work to spin in my FS blades, but I can do all my spins in my MK Dance blades too. (In fact, my freeskate coach has told me to work on my camel more in my dance blades, because it will stop me from relying (wrongly) on my toepicks.)

Back to herniated's question:
I bought 7' dance blades because I had 7' FS blades (MK Dance and MK Pro). Personally, I didn't find them anything alike, and I don't think it helped me. However, MK Dance are also thinner and have different toepicks etc - if I'd gone for Coronation Dance, which are effectively Coro Ace with the tail cut off, I might have had a different experience.

[herniated]

Very informative.. thanks everyone. Wish I had the $$ now I'd switch over to Dance blades after my test in April. Soon but not now.

What do you all know about the Wilson precision blade. It's much cheaper than the super dance 99 and it says on one website I reasearched that it is a close relation to the super dance. I've heard that precision and dance blades are very similiar. The Wilson precision blade also has the 8' rocker.

[Query]

1. It seems to me the hard part of 3 turns is the check. Is there any reason a shorter blade would make it easier to check?


2. This is off-topic, but would core strength exercises make checking easier? I.E., one is supposed to start and stop the turn without a lot of obvious hip or arm motion. Would stronger internal muscles would mean one could create the tension without showing much obvious motion? I've tried so hard, and people keep telling me I'm not checking enough, unless I swing my arms and hips wildly - maybe it's just a strength thing.

[phoenix]

2. This is off-topic, but would core strength exercises make checking easier? I.E., one is supposed to start and stop the turn without a lot of obvious hip or arm motion. Would stronger internal muscles would mean one could create the tension without showing much obvious motion? I've tried so hard, and people keep telling me I'm not checking enough, unless I swing my arms and hips wildly - maybe it's just a strength thing.

Yes, stronger core muscles do help. Also really really good technique which typically does take years to develop. Also re-bending your knees on the exit of the 3 turn, or, alternatively, keeping your free hip very open.

[dbny]

1. It seems to me the hard part of 3 turns is the check. Is there any reason a shorter blade would make it easier to check?


my dance coach offered to stone my blades for me, and I got a good look at his blades. He commented that they are thinner than freestyle blades, and that makes three turns easier! It makes sense to me - less blade in contact with the ice.

It's not the shorter length, it's the thinness of the blade that helps.

Re core body strength helping on checks, absolutely! Here's a good way to strengthen some of the muscles used to check: Stand in front of a mirror with feet about shoulder width apart. Twist from the waist up till you are facing the right. Hold. Make sure your shoulders are turning, but not your hips. Twist the other way & hold. While you are holding, try to feel which muscles are involved in your torso. Those are the ones you need, and the twist & hold helps strengthen them.

[Mrs Redboots]

What do you all know about the Wilson precision blade. It's much cheaper than the super dance 99 and it says on one website I reasearched that it is a close relation to the super dance. I've heard that precision and dance blades are very similiar. The Wilson precision blade also has the 8' rocker.
I had them when I first went on to the shorter blades - there was a "Blade Famine" at the time, and Coronation Dance, which is what I wanted, were unavailable. So I got the Team Synchro, and loved them. I think, though, that once you're getting to the Bronze dance stage, if you're going to go for dance blades you probably do want the thinner ones, like MK Dance or whatever else there is on the market these days.

[herniated]

I had them when I first went on to the shorter blades - there was a "Blade Famine" at the time, and Coronation Dance, which is what I wanted, were unavailable. So I got the Team Synchro, and loved them. I think, though, that once you're getting to the Bronze dance stage, if you're going to go for dance blades you probably do want the thinner ones, like MK Dance or whatever else there is on the market these days.

I hear what your saying... By the time I start working on the Bronze tests my pattern 99 will probably be shot. Then I'll suck it up and buy the super dance 99. We'll see. Right now my coach says at times I am trying to 'lead' him instead of allowing him to lead me. :lol: I have no idea that I'm doing this. Must be the control freak in me.:twisted: He's sweet about it though and tells me I'll get used to it as I progress...?

[CanSkate_Rules]

it is possilbe to jump and spin in dance blades....i know of someone who can and they execute the jumps and spins very nicely....they were even doing triples so it is in theory possible