Opinions on hinged boots??

[bootsnblades]

Any opinions on hinged boots? I was thinking about getting the Jackson ProFlex Boots but when I saw the picture I was like, OMG are u kidding me? It was like carrying 2 bags of cement on your feet! I looked at some more boots and I found the Graf F4000... Do you think this is too bulky? Is it light enough? :??

[katz in boots]

I've had Proflex hinged boot for approx 7 months. I previously had Graf Galaxy boots, I also switched from very old Phantom blades to the Ultima Matrix system with Freestyle runners, so it was a big transition for me. Difficult to separate what was different because of new blades and what was because of the boots. I would personally recommend keeping the blade that you are used to, at least until you are used to the boot.

My personal experience is that Proflex aren't heavier than the Graf Galaxy boots (and they are a lightweight boot ) - they just look bulky. OTB tights definitely for comps & tests. In larger sizes, these have to be the ugliest boots around.

The boots took quite a bit of getting used to for me, and the results have been unexpected. My coach recommends Proflex because you can't lean forward, you have to have the correct posture & balance point.
For me there has been marked improvment in footwork and general confidence in skates. Jumping & spinning took a while, particularly loops and sit spins - which is what I expected greatest improvement in (go figure :roll:)
That's my experience, and if I'd stuck to the same blades things might have been different.

I am okay with them now. When it comes to my next boots I will seriously consider the Graf F-4000 boots because I really liked my Graf Galaxies, but it'd be difficult to go back to unhinged boots.

[coskater64]

I have been wearing the hinged boots for around a year, I like them a great deal. They are 1/2 the weight of my custom Harlicks and give me a better range of motion and allow me more toe point and just general bend. My ability to flip edges and do difficult footwork have improved massively. I am still working on getting more explosive height on my jumps but overall I think they are very good boots. You need good ankle strength to use them but they are worth it.

:lol:

[doubletoe]

Alissa Czisny just talked about them in her Jan. 3 journal entry on her website:

I had been in the Jackson hinged boots for a number of years, which helped prevent me from getting the enlarged bursas on my ankles, something that I struggled with for so many years in the past. Jackson worked with me to develop a regular boot, with a few changes to it making the transfer back to the traditional boot a little easier. Since I wasn’t going to Worlds or Four Continents to compete, I had a couple of weeks to readjust to skating in them. After the initial switch, I noticed that the hinged boots had made my ankles very strong and that I no longer needed to lace my boots up as tightly as I used to. I feel very comfortable in the traditional boot now, and I strongly believe that having been in the hinged boot extended my capability to continue skating and competing without injury.

[MQSeries]

IMO, If hinged boots were so great then you would have seen more high profile elite skaters using them than just Czisny, and it looks like even she has now abandone them. I don't buy that positive spin that Czisny posted about the hinged boots at all. It just feel like she was trying to find a pc way to announce that she's no longer using the hinge boot.

[flo]

What level are you? What are you looking for with a change?

[coskater64]

I love that MQSeries, who hasn't tried them has an opinion based on assumption. What an incredibly valid opinion and of course you are buddies with Alissa, so you know all this for a fact... why don't you try the boots and form an opinion based on fact, instead of psychic skill.

8O8O:lol::lol:8O8O:twisted::frus:

[miraclegro]

I don't have any experience with them, but i know an older youth who said when she first got hers (she got them as a teen) she almost quit skating b/c of them. But, apparently, she adjusted because was skating in them! I would think you'd do better to learn to have them as a child, but i'm only tossing in my 2 cents.

[katz in boots]

I don't have any experience with them, but i know an older youth who said when she first got hers (she got them as a teen) she almost quit skating b/c of them. But, apparently, she adjusted because was skating in them! I would think you'd do better to learn to have them as a child, but i'm only tossing in my 2 cents.

From memory, Jacksons recommend them for skaters who already have their double jumps, which indicates they aren't for learners. I'm in them cos I'm old & fat and ankle bend helps when knee bend is hard to achieve :lol: .

I must say if I had the money at the time I started with them, I would've thrown mine in the rubbish bin and ordered something else. It took me a long time to get used to them, and even now I don't think my jumps are as good as they were, especially loops.
But as I say, there are trade-offs and my coach assures me my basic skating is much improved because they force correct technique.

[coskater64]

Well I started using the hinged boot after my hip surgeon recommended the idea and the premise behind them. The hinged boot does require correct technique,you can't muscle your way through things--- you have to be stronger and more secure to use them well. I will admit they were difficult to get used too --having had 2 major hip surgeries--- after a year in them my skating basics are much better, relearning the axel and double jumps will require more strength and better form on my part, if I become a better skater that doesn't seem like a big price to pay.

If you notice Alissa still struggles with consistency, so obviously the boots didn't hurt her and her issues are most likely not boot related, she continues to be a beautiful skater. I would take her word on the boots making her stronger, from my experience they do make your ankles and lower calfs very strong, they also allow ankle flexion that is difficult to match in a regular boot, they are easy to break in and they are very comfortable.

You might want to notice that ski boots are hinged and many people do believe that the hinged boot is a good idea as it stops a lot of the pounding on the hip (reducing impact by 40%) and allows for the shock of landings to be spread out in the ankle, the knee and the hip. With the massive increase in labral tears (cartlidge in the hip socket) of young skaters it would seem that more skaters should look into these boots but the strength they take can be daunting.

A lot of dancers do use the boots as well, it seems like a question of will people do what is better for their body or what is easier? If you skate fine in a regular boot why would you change? Maybe hinged boots are for those who have decided they want to skate but do less harm to their bodies. That is certainly my choice but I am not a child and I have tried regular boots, they were heavy, I couldn't crease them due to my height and just lack of ankle strength and lack of bulk. I will stick with my hinged boots because I find they work for me, I don't think they are for everyone but until you actually try them it seems silly to pass along hearsay and slanderous statements.

:halo::halo::twisted::twisted:

[ibreakhearts66]

I skate in southern California, so we are not short and elite skaters and coaches. I have had a bunch of orthopedic problems, so I asked my coach if I should look into the hinged boots for my next pair. She told me absolutely not because skaters had been breaking their feet and ankles in them because there was no "stop" as to how far the foot could point. I assume this was happening on jump falls, with the blade sticking in the ice and the body continuing to fall, but I don't know the details. Obviously, this isn't happening to everyone, or even a majority of skaters, but it was enough to keep me away from the boots.

[coskater64]

I can honestly say I have never heard of that or had that happen. The toe point is limited by your foots ability and you do have major support on the sides of your ankle. Considering your hip problems ibreakhearts you might actually want to ask a doctor or someone with an understanding and degree in biomechanics.

Once again hearsay isn't always truthful, I know a lot of skaters with broken pelvises, broken ankles and broken toes from using regular boots, that is part of the sport sloppy form gets you nothing but injuries. Just like folks said we would never fly or that the airplane was a crazy invention, until you try it you just don't know.

Why are ski boots hinged if this is such a bad technology?

[Rusty Blades]

I am an older (59) and newer (3 years) skater and switched to Proflex 1-1/2 years ago. I had sprained my ankle 8 months earlier and was hoping for more knee-bend without having to sake with my laces loose at the top.

They helped my ankle sprain A LOT (it finally healed properly) and after I got a couple more muscles built up, I liked them. It took about 3 weeks to transition - since the boots are hinged, you can't ride against the tongue or the cuff for support like most people do in a spiral - it too about 3 weeks to get my spirals back. I wouldn't have a sit spin or a shoot the duck if it wasn't for the Profelx.

I don't find them any heavier than my Jackson Elites.

I wouldn't hesitate to replace them with Proflex again (unless somebody comes out with a hinged boot that looks less bulky).

When you talk about high level skaters not using Proflex you have to remember that they are also used to going through 2 or 3 pairs of boots a year. I think if there was a hinged boot that didn't LOOK like a hinged boot, you would see a lot of serious skaters using them but I have heard some judges don't like the look of them. When your game can hinge on a single point, I think the skaters are simply not taking any chances.

[doubletoe]

The toe point is limited by your foots ability and you do have major support on the sides of your ankle.

I have to say that makes sense. So many skaters do doubles and triples off ice in sneakers, where there is unlimited toe point, and sneakers *don't* have any lateral support for the ankles to keep them from buckling or twisting in ways they aren't supposed to. . .

[dream.jump.sk8]

Alright, so I am a pretty powerful skater, and 6 months ago I had surgery on my shins for compartment syndrome. I have all my double jumps, spins and an inconsistent double axel. I have moved a lot, and had some medical issues, and so whenever I get back into the swing of things i seem to have to start over..
Today was my first day skating in my Jackson ProFLEX hinged boots. I think i may quit. It felt like switching from skating to snowboarding. IT FELT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIKE WHAT SKATING HAS EVER FELT LIKE...and i have been skating for 9 years...
anyways, I am using the same blades that i had, the parabolic pattern-99's, but I am just so upset with these skates. How can anyone get used to them.. I am known as a humongous jumper, and i could barely do a bunny hop in these stupid skates..
Does anyone know how long it took to get used to them? because I am certainly not a rookie in this sport, but I felt like i should step out on a limb with these skates.. Now i feel like i made a complete newby mistake.
SOS. help.
-freeeaakingg out!:giveup::!:

[MQSeries]

I love that MQSeries, who hasn't tried them has an opinion based on assumption. What an incredibly valid opinion and of course you are buddies with Alissa, so you know all this for a fact... why don't you try the boots and form an opinion based on fact, instead of psychic skill.

8O8O:lol::lol:8O8O:twisted::frus:

When a thread starts with "IMO", it means simply that. My opinion. If you want to interpret what I said as "fact" then that's your problem.

I still stand by my point that if the hinge-boots are so great then we would have seen more skaters using them. There's no way I'm going to waste my hard earn money on what I think is a gimmick. But you go ahead and spend money on them and prove to us how great your skating will be with them.

[Isk8NYC]

Let's stay on topic, ladies and gentlemen.
Please disagree in an agreeable fashion without insulting other members.

[saras]

OK - commit NOW to skating in them for at least three weeks before giving up on them. My experience was that I could really start "working" again after about 2 weeks in them - and I switched to drastically different blades at the same time (from Phantoms to the Matrix FS system). They feel incredibly different from regular boots - they feel like you're skating in sneakers. You can bend when you want to bend, but you YOU have to control your ankle stability when you don't want to bend.

I'm on my second pair of them now. The break in period is way different than for regular boots - I was doing axels in them my first day (my hardest jump). There is some breaking in to do - the toes are tight in places and I'm bumping out etc. - but nothing like regular boots.

I wouldn't go back - I switched to them after dealing with a knee injury, and wanting to prevent further joint issues. The logic of them just makes sense to me - if you can't bend at your ankle when landing a jump, you're going to transfer the load further up the joint line - to knees and hips. And biomechanically your body is made for ankles to bend when you come down from a jump (just try hopping down from a step in sneakers without bending your ankle - ouch).

The hardest thing for me to re-gain was spins. My jumps "pop" up better (both edge jumps and toe jumps - I really noticed it with my flip jump at the beginning), my edges are better, I bend better, my technique for edges steps and turns has improved.

It feels like you have just had a bilateral foot transplant at the moment - but give it some time - you'll notice a drastic "learning curve" within a few days, with daily massive improvement, and in a few weeks you'll be fine. For a while I kept finding little things that I had to re-learn a bit - usually something from a move pattern that I hadn't done in a long time or something. But by and large, I was back to usual skating in a few weeks.

Keep us posted - my dance coach said to me - it's like before you were working with black and white, now you have a whole box of crayola crayons - you have a whole lot more "choice" of what to do with your feet now :)

Sara


Alright, so I am a pretty powerful skater, and 6 months ago I had surgery on my shins for compartment syndrome. I have all my double jumps, spins and an inconsistent double axel. I have moved a lot, and had some medical issues, and so whenever I get back into the swing of things i seem to have to start over..
Today was my first day skating in my Jackson ProFLEX hinged boots. I think i may quit. It felt like switching from skating to snowboarding. IT FELT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIKE WHAT SKATING HAS EVER FELT LIKE...and i have been skating for 9 years...
anyways, I am using the same blades that i had, the parabolic pattern-99's, but I am just so upset with these skates. How can anyone get used to them.. I am known as a humongous jumper, and i could barely do a bunny hop in these stupid skates..
Does anyone know how long it took to get used to them? because I am certainly not a rookie in this sport, but I felt like i should step out on a limb with these skates.. Now i feel like i made a complete newby mistake.
SOS. help.
-freeeaakingg out!:giveup::!:

[saras]

Well in MY opinion, the main reason more skaters aren't using them is vanity - they look bizarre and weird, and skating is one of those things where most folks aren't willing to go there. It has nothing to do with "gimmicks" - it's a biomechanically designed boot that helps in many ways. I know one person who went back to regular boots after a few years - I know many many more who have kept going in them.

When a thread starts with "IMO", it means simply that. My opinion. If you want to interpret what I said as "fact" then that's your problem.

I still stand by my point that if the hinge-boots are so great then we would have seen more skaters using them. There's no way I'm going to waste my hard earn money on what I think is a gimmick. But you go ahead and spend money on them and prove to us how great your skating will be with them.

[saras]

I have to say that sounds pretty ridiculous. I have not heard of a single person breaking their foot or ankle in them, and I have a hard time imagining that happening to my own feet. I know one person who used an early model of them who broke the *hinge* on the boot every time she went to do a triple lutz - but those were models in development, and that doesn't happen presently. (And I'd hazard that the chances of me or probably most of us ever attempting a triple lutz are slim to nil.) They're as solid a piece of me as regular boots were, with some extra capabilities. Spins were a little hard to learn how to "control" b/c the entry to them is so dynamic with respect to ankle and knee bend, but that's it.

And the person doing triple lutzes in them who broke a few hinges? She never broke a bone while attempting those. If she broke the hinge and her foot stayed intact - you can be pretty sure that ankles and feet aren't breaking like toothpicks out there in the boots ;)

I skate in southern California, so we are not short and elite skaters and coaches. I have had a bunch of orthopedic problems, so I asked my coach if I should look into the hinged boots for my next pair. She told me absolutely not because skaters had been breaking their feet and ankles in them because there was no "stop" as to how far the foot could point. I assume this was happening on jump falls, with the blade sticking in the ice and the body continuing to fall, but I don't know the details. Obviously, this isn't happening to everyone, or even a majority of skaters, but it was enough to keep me away from the boots.

[flo]

I have a suggestion for anyone wanting more flexibility in their boot, but not want to go to the hinged boots for whatever reason. I switched from high level Jackson fs boots to Jackson dance boots. I get the great toe point ability and the same stiffness as my fs boot. I'm only working on a couple doubles, so it's plenty of support for me. It was not difficult to adjust to these boots, and I can get the deep edges and jump.

[black]

Anybody in England got a pair, and if so where did you get them from?

[Mrs Redboots]

Anybody in England got a pair, and if so where did you get them from?
I don't have a pair - nor do I want one - but I have seen them in this country; I imagine any of the regular suppliers would import you a pair if you wanted.

[saras]

though not at all the same flexibility that you get with the hinged boot. Seriously, hop off of a step in sneakers - hinged boots feel like that, only with oodles of lateral stability added in.

I have a suggestion for anyone wanting more flexibility in their boot, but not want to go to the hinged boots for whatever reason. I switched from high level Jackson fs boots to Jackson dance boots. I get the great toe point ability and the same stiffness as my fs boot. I'm only working on a couple doubles, so it's plenty of support for me. It was not difficult to adjust to these boots, and I can get the deep edges and jump.

[coskater64]

My former boots custom Harlicks had a dance cut, a high heel and were softer, I had the cuts to improve bend in the ankle and none of that worked. Sara is right, wearing a hinged boot is like wearing a sneaker with massive lateral support. You have to build strength in your ankle and a lot of control in your core, they are ergonomically designed to allow your ankle to work as it was intended. I don't understand why letting your joints move as the naturally would is considered a gimmick, and saying that they allow you joint to hyper extend beyond their natural range is just silly.

While the boots are bulky they have advantages that make them very worth while. Having worn both I can compare, they are not heavy and for me they work very well.

Only time will tell, 8O8O

[katz in boots]

....saying that they allow you joint to hyper extend beyond their natural range is just silly.

Absolutely agree with this. I was concerned that when I reached back to pick for toe jumps ie flips & lutzes, that I might hyper-extend or the pick get caught somehow, but I have never had even a hint of that happening.

They do have advantages. Dance is much easier, with great bend and toe point and just seems to make footwork easier - for me at least.:halo:

What I struggle with is taking off on edge jumps, ie salchow, loop, even a waltz jump 8O, and it took me ages to get my sit spins back because I can no longer use pressure against the front of the boot to lever myself to upright again.

Yes they are ugly and bulky looking but they aren't heavy. Next to no break-in time either - just 'getting used to them' time. I imagine once you are used to them, subsequent pairs just wouldn't need breaking in.

[saras]

. Next to no break-in time either - just 'getting used to them' time. I imagine once you are used to them, subsequent pairs just wouldn't need breaking in.

it's true - I'm on my second pair and there really hasn't been a break in period - in that I could do everything (everything) on day one in my new second pair. There are the usual things to "break in" - there's rough spot by my big toe, there's a spot that needs to be bumped out etc. - they're not quite molded to my feet yet. But, it's not the usual "breaking in" period of regular boots.