Discouragement from lack of improvement

[CreativeSkater]

Hello fellow skaters :) I wanted to share an experience I had today. I was so discouraged today by the lack of progress I made in practice...it felt as though my practice session had not done anything positive for me, except to discourage me further. No matter how long I seem to practice the spin entry and the height on my jumps (and I spend hours...with ssoooo much repitition), I just don't seem to be improving. It is incredibly frustrating. I ended up leaving the rink feeling very dissappointment. But then, I went to the library, because I really wanted to find some more inspiration...I checked out books, one being Michelle Kwan's autobiography...how inspiring! I have also planned to make myself a goal sheet before practices with MANY goals, so that I won't get discouraged over only one missed goal that practice session. My way of dealing with the dissappointment of lack of improvement is reading and goal-setting. I would love to know how my fellow skaters deal with dissappointment/lack of improvement as well!
p.s. I don't have a "skating buddy" and sometimes I get so lonely on the ice...I socialize when I can, but sometimes there is no one else there or they are too busy with their own practice...any advice for the lone skaters?

[jskater49]

Did I read from you somewhere else that you have been skating 4 months?

Really I think you have unrealistic expectations. Figure skating takes a LONG time to get stuff...even more for adults. I think it's a sport that requires patience. And you have probably improved a lot more than you think you have...you have to compare yourself to you a month ago.

I mean really maybe I shouldn't tell you this...and I do seem to be slower than a lot of other adult skaters ...but I have been skating off and on for more than 10 years...I've been specifically trying to get the entry edge for a scratch spin for a year and a half and I'm still not there. And that is discouraging and so then I don't like to practice it and obviosly THAT doesn't help improvement.

But I think you may just have to be more patience and not expect so much.

About the socializing...I know I don't like to skate when I'm the only one on the ice BUT I sure don't like other adults (and that's who seem to be most guilty) trying to socialize with me ON the ice. I pay a lot of money for my ice and I don't want to spend it talking....off the ice, in the club room, fine. Join your club and volunteer for stuff - that's a way to get to know people.

j

[Debbie S]

Really I think you have unrealistic expectations. Figure skating takes a LONG time to get stuff...even more for adults. Yeah, 4 months is nothing. I started out in group lessons and after 4 months, I think I was in Basic 4 - definitely not working on any jumps or spins (actually, I think I had learned a 2-foot spin by then, but it was really bad - spinning took me a looooong time to get, even longer than some of the jumps).

I think your idea of setting goals is a good one, but talk to your coach to make sure your goals are realistic.

I agree with jskater about the socializing. Freestyle sessions are serious work times for skaters. Given the cost, everyone wants to spend as much time practicing as possible. Not only does standing around talking waste your own practice time, but it also creates a hazard for other skaters if you're standing away from the boards out in the middle of the ice. I will sometimes talk to people for just a minute or 2, but I try to make sure it's either at the boards, or while we're stroking around at the beginning of the session to warm up. But we always keep it quick.

I agree about joining the club and volunteering as a way to meet people. I will also caution you, as a newbie adult skater, that while the majority of adult skaters are great people, usually there's at least one in every rink who likes to create drama. It's important to feel out a place and the people before trying to become buddies with anyone. Just my advice - take it or leave it.

[hanca]

To Creative skater
Please don't beat yourself up with apparent lack of progress. Each of us feels like this from time to time. I think every progress is not upwards in a straight line; it is more like up, then slow down a little bit, then again suddenly shoots up again, (period when everything you do will work out well), then again the progress stops...and then again shoots up. I don't know why it is like this, but
I noticed that it is...

I hit crisis regularly twice a year. Twice a year I am going on holiday (all inclusive package) and put a stone on (within 2 weeks being away!). Don't ask me how, I don't have any explanation appart of that I am a greedy pig and will never learn! :halo: (I don't over eat there, but love cocktails, and they do contain a lot of sugar...and although usually I don't drink much because I am getting up early for skating, on holidays I have so many cocktails...) Then I come back, a stone heavier, my jumps are VERY small (imagine yourself jumping with a heavy bag on your back dragging you down) and my spins are completely gone. Then comes the diet, loosing weight back to my pre-holiday weight, which is not helping the spins either. Every six months it feels like if I set myself a year back. I know, this is self inflicted (I didn't have to put a stone on), but I think I will never learn. :twisted:

I have also had some trouble with spins generally. Even if my weight is stable, I have periods when I suddenly loose my upright spin. Sit spin is fine, back spin is fine but just can't do upright spin. I perhaps don't have the spin for a month or two, and then (after so many hours of practising it, it is suddenly back, same quality as it was before). I have one explanation: Everyone says that it is all about muscle memory. I think my muscles suffer from dementia. :)
Or another explanation: you know how all the time cells in our body are dying and are being replaced by other cells...perhaps all of those that had the knowledge how to spin unfortunately died and the new ones did not learn it yet. :) (just joking of course)

Anyway, how I deal with disappointment - I read a lot about skating and chat to people on skating forums and on facebook and watch skating on videos to get motivation. Perhaps if things don't work for you, work on something else for a while. Ask your coach to make you a new program (perhaps interpretative program, so that you don't have to worry about the elements that don't work). Not sure if that helps you, but I love the feelings of expressing music with my movements.

[CoachPA]

Did I read from you somewhere else that you have been skating 4 months?

Really I think you have unrealistic expectations. Figure skating takes a LONG time to get stuff...even more for adults. I think it's a sport that requires patience. And you have probably improved a lot more than you think you have...you have to compare yourself to you a month ago.

Try video taping yourself. Go through all your elements that you're working on and in a few weeks or months go back and tape these same elements. You're guaranteed to see some improvement in certain jumps, spins, etc. Plus, there's a good chance that some moves will feel worse than they look (and vice-versa), which may help you feel more confident in your skating ability (or help you identify common errors).

Since there's probably no one there that you can ask to film you except your coach, prop a video camera up on the boards and practice in front of it so you can tape yourself.

[Skittl1321]

Try video taping yourself. Go through all your elements that you're working on and in a few weeks or months go back and tape these same elements.

I totally agree with this. Video taping my skating is the best thing I have ever done. (And if you put it on youtube, you can post it here and get some compliments and critiques) Daily I struggle with pretty much everything. I can't do this, I can't do that. But when I take time to look at the video from six months ago, 1 year ago, 2 years ago- WOW. I've really improved!

[Sessy]

You've been skating 4 months? As an adult?

Here's a reality check. When I started to skate I was told "Adults don't learn to jump". And there's a good deal of truth in it, lots of adults who start out indeed don't learn to jump for the first couple of years of skating.

And other than that. There just ARE those practices when it doesn't seem like you've made any progress. In fact the further you go the more there will be of those, because the longer it will take to learn new skills because those skills will be becoming more complicated.

Also, many practices in a row where there's no progress, to me, are generally an indication you need a break. Maybe a week or a half a week, but a break nonetheless.

I also support the taping suggestion.

[doubletoe]

Unfortunately, this phenomenon you describe is simply the nature of our sport! That's why I always compare skating progress to the stock market (the stock market under *normal* economic circumstances, that is): When you try to see an increase every day, you are bound to be frustrated and disappointed. Instead, take a snapshot of your skating ability just once a year (that's right, once a YEAR, if you're an adult!) and you'll see that your average day is the equivalent of your best day last year and your worst day is the equivalent of your average day last year. Your best day will, of course, be better than any day last year.
I also get a little frustrated with lack of progress, but it's not as bad as going backwards, which also happens. I used to have a fairly consistent double salchow a year or two ago, but I've only landed it intermittently in the past year or so, for no apparent reason. In light of the loss of my only double, the only thing that keeps me sane is comparing a video of my program this year with a video from two years ago. When I see how much my overall skating has improved, it makes it easier to handle the setbacks on individual elements.

[Rusty Blades]

About the time I get really down on myself for my glacial pace of improvement my coach or another coach says "Gee, those xxxx have come a LONG way!"

We are our own worst critics.

[bootsnblades]

Maybe u are doing them in a wrong way so u keep getting them wrong. Maybe u should leave it alone for a while and try working on different things. You will feel better this way :D.

[CreativeSkater]

Thanks for the responses :) I don't think, however, that it is wrong for me to be so dissappointed. I think dissappointment shoud be expected in this sport...and that if it weren't for the high expectations I set for myself, then I would never improve...even though large goals lead to inevitable dissappointment. I enjoyed reading many of the responses and how everyone has different ways to look at things. It was interesting to read :)

[dbny]

Are you taking weekly lessons? Sometimes frustration comes from making the same mistakes over and over again. Only when you have a coach to watch you (or sometimes in video, if you know enough yourself) will you be able to make corrections. Most of us are not fully aware of what every muscle is doing at all times, and it takes an educated observer to tell us what is in the wrong place or which muscles are not tight enough, etc.

[Sessy]

No, large goals don't inevitably lead to dissapointment. It's a matter of patience and a realistic view upon your own achievements as you're looking back.

Of course I'm not talking about unrealistic goals. You're never going to learn the triple axel, because only a handful of women in the world can do it and they all started skating before they were old enough to know how to write. That's just a fact. But large goals aren't necessarily bad.

I still intend to learn the double loop, despite being off ice this season with injury and God only knows how long it'll take for me to jump again. In fact my goal is still the double axel.
By 2030. No seriously. Why not? I'll be 45 in 2030. Even better would be if I could get it by the age of 31, but is that going to happen? Most likely not.

Am I going to be disappointed if I never get the double axel? NO. Because it's a huuuge goal and as long as I'm giving my 100% I'm happy, even when things don't come so easily. Because I'm sort of used to judging myself by, how much did I put in? If I didn't put in all I could, then I feel unhappy about myself but if I did - well I'm not superhuman! Personally, I need those large goals because if I set small goals, I slack off. In fact I always need goals just beyond the reach of what I think is realistic, else I slack off. That of course means that often, I don't get what I was aiming for. But usually, I get something that when I look back and I think about it, I go like "WOW".

Besides skating is this sort of thing... You know I talked to this girl who quit skating because she was like, "well, all that training, all those hours... for like 3 competitions a year? why?" and I didn't say anything but I figured - well yeah if that's the way you look at it, then indeed, why?
I don't think you can skate for the medals or for the tests, at least, not without getting discouraged in the end. I think you need to skate for that feeling when you are on ice, that feeling of... Pure, crystal clear joy. The feeling of feeling the ice work in perfect symbiosis with your blades, the feeling of flying, the feeling of going down hard on your butt out of a jump or some other thing you were learning and thinking "WHOA what an adrenaline rush!" the feeling of getting off the ice and thinking "Now THAT"s a ride!"
And if you have that feeling... Then who cares if you're jumping a waltz jump or a triple axel!? Who cares about anybody around you anyway?!
I mean sure it feels good if you can show off but in the end, it's how skating makes YOU feel that keeps you in it, not how it makes others feel.

Try to enjoy the moment of being out on the ice. It's really special when you're "in the zone" if you can just get your mind off your long term goals for a moment and then enjoy where you are and what you're doing. It could all be over tomorrow, enjoy it while it lasts.

[Skate@Delaware]

Thanks for the responses :) I don't think, however, that it is wrong for me to be so dissappointed. I think dissappointment shoud be expected in this sport...and that if it weren't for the high expectations I set for myself, then I would never improve...even though large goals lead to inevitable dissappointment. I enjoyed reading many of the responses and how everyone has different ways to look at things. It was interesting to read :)

Your goals might be set too high for the short term. Perhaps you need to re-evaluate them and set short-term and long-term goals that are more realistic for your current abilities. You also did not mention how often you are on the ice per week. That has a lot to do on rate of improvement. PLUS, how long you work on EACH particular element at each session has a lot to do with it as well. Let's say you go twice a week for an hour each time. If all you do at each session is work on spins, and your spins are wonky at each session....well, no wonder you are facing frustration!

I suggest you make a list of ALL of the elements you have been working on in class/session with your coach from the most basic up to the most complex. Then structure your sessions in the same way. Begin by taking the ice doing a warm-up (you may want to start off-ice). Your coach may want to suggest some things for this as well. At your next lesson, ask him/her if there are things you should highlight before you meet again.

Make a 3x5 (or 5x7) card and take that rinkside (stick it in your pocket). It will have your "notes" or elements on it, all structured so you will have a script or outline to follow. You don't want to work on any particular element more than 15-20 minutes or when it starts getting worse. Doing so will only reinforce bad habits which are harder to correct in adults.

This will also help with your lonliness. If you are busy you will not be as lonely! I have found structure to be my friend when I am on the ice working-usually I am the only one at my level.

Please don't get discouraged or frustrated! This is a difficult sport! It's almost like hopping into a basic ballet class and expecting to go on pointe within 6 months-it aint gonna happen!

I also suggest keeping a training log. A notebook of your practices and lessons. I have done so since I started skating (six years ago) and when I would get discouraged I would look at the beginning and see what I could not do at first. I also don't concentrate on the things I cannot do but on what I can do! As you should too!

[Sessy]

Another thing is, how long do you train each time? Lots of beginners have the tendency to like, go once a week for four hours.
Even elite level skaters don't tend to skate for more than 2 hours in a row. Yes the TRAIN for maybe 6 hours a day, but a lot of that is off-ice at the gym or ballet school.
For lower level skaters, revenues start to drop after an hour on the ice or so already because a. the muscles grow tired and you lose control of finer motorics and b. the brain grows tired and if you're for like 3 hours on the ice in a row, all you're doing is increasing your chance of injury. Anything past 2,5 hours or so is really just lost time, and that's if you have very good stamina. If you haven't got much stamina and you're doing a session heavy on the jumping, 1,5 hours might be too much for you. Skating is a brain-oriented sport, your brain has to learn to make fine-tuned movements and unlike tired muscles, it's very hard to figure out when your brain is tiring.

Of course it's kind of useless to skate for 15 minutes too. That'd barely warm you up. Jumping on cold muscles, as well as stretching on them, is also a big increaser of injury chances. It's best to train for 1-2 hours at a time.

Basically a "long" training session over at my club goes something like this:
- warm up doing crossovers, stroking, chassee, that kind of things
- do a run-through of edges and 3-turns
- stretch a little at the boardings and do spirals
- do spins
- do jumps
- cool down doing moves (mohawks, 3-turns, choctaws, hydroblades whatever) that you already mastered but want to keep fresh in your memory.

The 45 minute sessions we have usually focus on just 1 thing, moves, spins or jumps.

[Skate@Delaware]

That is a very good point, Sessy!

Our freestyle sessions have been cut back to 45-minutes which means we have to be extremely effecient with our time. Plus, I found out that having my jumps near the end of my session made me too pooped to pop, so I moved them earlier.

I follow pretty much the same structure you have outlined (preceded with a brief off-ice warmup); my cooldown moves are usually my footwork (ISI 3 or Waltz-8's) or sometimes spins.

[twokidsskatemom]

I also think that people think it only takes a few months to learn elements.It takes a long time, and then it can come and go. Even with kids, its takes a long time, not overnight.
My daughter has a very nice sit spin, but it really took her 3 years to get it.Years, not days or months.It took her a good 2 years of trying, falling , watching people stop skating, more falling before she had her axel. Its just how the sport is.The same with double sal, and my sons sit spin. After hours of practice, he finally has one that is passable.
Sometimes things come easy,and that helps hang in for the hard stuff. My kids have skated more than half their lives, and still have things to learn !!

[CreativeSkater]

To respond to issue of my "goal setting," I actually enjoy my large goals...come true or not. There will be dissappointments with my goals, but it is so fun to work towards, and of course I love what I can do!! I do not ignore that!! I was dissappointed once...I was not saying that it was normal for me. To answer some of the questions: I go skating about three or four times a week and usually practice for three hours.

[Sessy]

Then it sounds to me like you're doing just fine!


Is there any way you can get off the ice for 15-30 minutes inbetween those 3 hours? Take your boots off, stretch?
You'll notice your flexibility increasing rapidly (stretching on warm muscles is good) and it gives your brain and muscles an opportunity to relax and come back more kickass than before.
The stretching for my biellmann I've been doing while getting off the ice for 10 minutes or so to catch my breath, has been 10 times more effective than the stretching at home, even if I had taken care to warm up a little before... During an actual skating training session my core and back muscles are just so much warmer.

[Debbie S]

I go skating about three or four times a week and usually practice for three hours.That sounds like a lot for someone who has only been skating for 4 months. At your level, you don't really have that much to work on. I could see how practicing a small number of skills over and over again for that much time could lead to frustration. As S@D said, if you practice the same thing incorrectly for a long time, you'll teach yourself bad habits. I would suggest limiting your skating to 1 session/hour a time, or maybe go twice a week for 2 hours each. Ask your instructor/coach how much practice time he/she recommends.

I'm assuming you are in lessons of some sort. If you are teaching yourself these skills based on videos or watching skaters in person, that's definitely a recipe for bad habits.

[CreativeSkater]

I am taking group classes and I really do want private lessons, but my mom says it is either that with less ice time or more ice time and no private lessons, because it is too expensive to go both ways. I am thinking that next month I should do less ice time and hopefully a skate spinner will help me with off-ice training. (see the forum on this and any advice on skate spinners would be very much appreciated!). I really love my ice time, but yes, thank you for understanding...I do get so bored going over the same skills sometimes! I would LOVE more to work on, but it is hard to be able to learn more without private lessons, and my spins are really holding me back from learning more advanced jumps. I really hope a skate spinner will fix it. Great responses...thanks everyone :)

[phoenix]

Definitely go for the less ice time & more instruction. IMHO, you are skating too much for someone at your level without someone giving you corrections. Elite skaters train 4-5 hours a day; for the rest of us it's not necessary and can in fact be harmful. It's also an open invitation to injury due to overuse.

[teresa]

creativeskater. . .First off, you haven't been skating long! :D My experience is that it takes a lot of effort to "get" skills. Four months is nothing. Skating is going to teach you great paitence! ;) The longer you skate the more you will understand this. You will learn to do the happy dance over the smallest accomplishments understanding how hard they were to come by.

I would suggest skating on an adult session from time to time as this would be a great opportunity to see what others are doing and learn from their input.

Saying that, I hate when folks want to talk on the ice. A brief chat is okay but ice time is skate time. I'm always happy to visit when the ice is being cleaned or for coffee. I kinda have a plan and goals when I skate and visits on ice shorten my practice time. Besides ice is expensive.

teresa

[Debbie S]

I am taking group classes and I really do want private lessons, but my mom says it is either that with less ice time or more ice time and no private lessons, because it is too expensive to go both ways. OK, so you are not an adult - you're a teenager? Or very young adult? Well, the good news is that you'll probably progress further and faster than those of us who started skating in our late 20s, or 30s, or later. :)

I agree with Phoenix about less ice time and more instruction. I would say at your level, 1 20-minute private lesson per week should suffice, if you are also taking group lessons; if you stop group lessons, then maybe 2 privates/week. If/when you start testing and competing, you could add more when needed.

[CreativeSkater]

Yes, I am a young adult, still a teenager. Hmm...I can definitely see why less ice time and more instruction is suggested...a few weeks ago I would have refused to give up my ice time, because I was making such progress and greatly enjoying every practice hour....but now things are at a slow down and I do feel like I need more instruction :( Thanks for the suggestions. The rink is open in three-hour blocks, so I usually stay the whole time :) I think maybe I should not so much anymore, though. I don't know!! It sounds silly, but I'm really hoping a skate spinner will miraculously make my life easier with improvement off-ice...that would be less frustrating than on the ice, because then I can eat or take a walk inbetween spinning attempts.

[jskater49]

I hear a lot about your jumps and spins...it may not be as much fun but do not neglect your crossovers, edges, 3 turns, mohawks...these will help your jumps and spins and they are essential to skating. If you should decide to test or compete, your jumps and spins will be worth nothing without those basic skills.

j

[Sessy]

Get privates and less ice time!
The only thing the surplus ice time is doing at this point is enforcing bad habits.

Oh yeah and yes, those edges and 3-turns - it really is a good advice to pay attention to them. Consistent 3-turns will mean that you have at least 1 consistent factor in your jump takeoffs for the salchow and toe-loop which will mean you won't have to worry about THAT at least when working on those jumps! Inconsistent 3-turns could prove a serious problem learning those jumps.
Good edges (especially forward outisde) will help you majorly with your waltz take-off (I discussed not too long ago in the parents&coaches subforum what I've seen bad edges do to somebody's waltz take-off) and they'll help on the spins and other jumps (such as the lutz and loop further down the line) as well.

I hate doing them too which is why I often do them as a warm up or cooling down ;)



Why are your spins holding you back? I had the lutz (inconsistent, but landed each 2-3 attempts in practice) and everything up to the loop consistent before I was able to get more than 3 revolutions out of my scratch spin... Is this holding back happening due to the set-up of the group class levels? If so then you definitely need privates! You could just be a natural jumper instead of a natural spinner. I've seen 1 girl who had her axel struggle with her backspin and camel to NO end...

[TreSk8sAZ]

It sounds silly, but I'm really hoping a skate spinner will miraculously make my life easier with improvement off-ice...that would be less frustrating than on the ice, because then I can eat or take a walk inbetween spinning attempts.

It doesn't sound silly, it sounds potentially very bad for your skating. It may not be, it may help. But, if you aren't having luck with your spins on ice, and you're not getting instruction to tell you why you're having trouble, all a skate spinner is going to do is make any bad habits worse or create new ones. I absolutely agree that less ice-time and more instructions is the way to go. Once a bad-habit is learned, it takes months or more to un-learn it.

[CreativeSkater]

My spins are holding me back, because my teacher told me that I cannot learn more advanced jumps until I master my spin, because I will be in the "spinning position" when I do more advanced jumps. And really, all I can work on lately have been edges, 3-turns, lunges, crossovers, and the waltz jump. I reallllly want to learn that power-pull excercise (any advice on this?) As for the spins...urg. I've lost hope for now. Maybe later I will come back with new motivation, but yes, it really feels that I am reinforcing bad habits...my group teacher told me my spins looked better two weeks ago!!!!!! :( I have gotten some advice from teachers, but I get sooo frustrated that it is hard to practice now.

[Debbie S]

I reallllly want to learn that power-pull excercise (any advice on this?) Wait until you have good edges, 3-turns and crossovers? Seriously, power pulls are on the Pre-Juv MIF test - there's a reason you have to pass the first 2 tests before you work on those. Everything in skating builds on what you have learned before. If you don't master the basics, you won't get the advanced stuff. I strongly suggest you get a coach, b/c you're really trying to learn things out of order. The "spinning position" the instructor was referring to is the backspin (which you learn after the forward upright) - and the "advanced jumps" are the loop and all jumps after that - flip, lutz, axel, doubles, etc. But you are nowhere near ready to work on that. I suspect your instructor was just giving you info about skating for future reference.

Yes, learning the basics is boring, but you won't be able to learn the harder stuff until you do. As others here have said, this sport requires patience.

[fsk8r]

Guess what, if you want good jumps you need good edges! Edges are the fundamentals of skating. You can't expect to skate like an Olympic champion after 4 months (well you can hope but I seriously doubt it will happen).

If I were you I'd find a couple of friends from your group classes and go skate public sessions with them. Then at least you can skate around chatting with them (as they'll be equally frustrated about their progress) and you're practicing your crossovers and stroking without thinking about it that way. You're also not pushing yourself to learn things that you're not ready for.

And pay attention when you're in class. Coaches have the habit of dropping in little exercises which are there to help you progress towards harder things like power pulls and back spins. If you pay attention for when those little exercises are dropped in, you collect other things to practice.

I came out of group lessons with stronger edges than those who dropped out earlier, mainly because I picked up on the little exercises and I worked on those. And I also didn't rush to learn to jump and spin. The sport's about SKATING not jumping (otherwise they'd have called it that). So just work on the basics. There are multiple exercises with crossovers to help improve them and also for three turns. One I've done on three turns and edges, is firstly, how many turns does it take to complete a hockey circle? Then reduce the number of turns. This means you've got to learn control of your forward and back edges. It's possible to get to one. And then just how far can you go on an edge around the circle? Or rather how many circles? And remember there are two feet with two edges... It's a challenge to do and if you can find someone at your level to work with, you can have a competition...

[Sessy]

Not really... For the more advanced jumps, you'll need to have a solid *backspin* position, not so much a solid 1 foot spin position, and besides that only becomes a big issue with the loop and flip and above... Although I could definitely see why a coach would want spins and jumps to be more or less at the same level due to testing issues, group lessons issue etc.
Difference is that for a 1 foot spin, your centre of gravity goes over your left hip for ccw skaters (right hip for cw), and for the back spin and the in-air position on jumps, it's over the right hip for ccw skaters (left hip for cw) - in short, over the same hip as is your landing hip for jumps.

Of course you can't exactly go argue with your skating class policy in group class so yeah well... :frus:

[phoenix]

if you work w/ a private coach, you may very well find that she won't hold you back until your spins are mastered. I don't work that way & frankly it surprises me---as others have said, it's the backspin position that is necessary for higher jumps, but even that really doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot until you're working on an axel. It helps w/ loop & flip & lutz, but you can do them w/o it.

I have a student that had jumps through lutz before she finally got a good sit spin. It just took her a long time, & the jumps were easier for her.

[niupartyangel]

I remember when I was first being taught the salchow...my coach told me to not work on these without her around because she didn't want me to develop any bad habits. It also took me about a year and a half to have a passable one foot spin, and the private lessons really helped. I used to have group lessons with 1 15 minute private lesson afterwards, but ever since last summer I just completely switched to private lessons. I just found out that I need more attention and have my mistakes pointed out to me, and get more personalized feedback. Also, it didn't help to see my classmates get their one foot spin while I was still struggling (it made me feel more discouraged). I am learning the back spin part now for the change foot spin, and it is just NOT happening...but I know better now than to just up and quit...I just think of the moves that got me discouraged and almost made me want to quit, and how I overcame them eventually: Freestyle 1: backward outside edges, Freestyle 2: one foot spin. and I just think that this backspin will just be one of those things I'll get eventually with time and effort :) Also to tell you the truth, my 1 foot spin still needs finetuning as my coach says, and there are some lessons where they look bad again..and i would be like "OMG i'm regressing!" and she said to look at the overall picture...just compare to what it was evne just months ago, where every spin was a bad spin, while now I have good ones with a few bad ones every now and then.

Also have you had your blades checked? That could be a factor also. It might be time to upgrade to better boots/blades. When i was learning the waltz jump, I kept going on my toe and scraping instead of the backward edge. same thing wtih the two foot spin, i had no rocker at all. and my coach examined my blades (i was still using cheap beginnner skates then)...and she told me if i wanted to progress further i'll have to upgrade my skates which I did.