blade mounting q

[peanutskates]

Hi,

I've just bought new skates, and had the blades mounted by the shop pro. And now I've noticed something strange about the blade - is this normal? The front part (shaped like a heart, ish).is not fully attached - there is a gap (about 0.2cm) between the sole and the part of the blade which is in the middle.


{b o o t }
/ ..../.../
<---------- (the pink part)

Can this be solved by screwing in the part which is unattached, or does it mean that the blade is incorrectly attached altogether?

thanks

[CoachPA]

Are all of your screws in? I know sometimes a skate technician will leave out a few of the screws allowing you to skate and test out the mounting before he "officially" mounts the blade.

[peanutskates]

no, not all of the screws are in, but the shop is far away from where I live, so the pro doesn't expect me to return to finish the mounting - I took it to be finished by him. However, he did say that he only put a few screws in and I could take them out if the blade was wrong. The part of the blade which is unattached is not screwed in.

I don't have any additional screws, however (unless I take them from my old blade, which is Ultima Mark IV, and put them on the new Coronation Ace; would that work?)

[Skate@Delaware]

If you are sure your blades are in the right spot, you can put screws in yourself. Go to your local hardware store...(not the wally-world type) and get #6 stainless steel screws in about 3/4" size for that area (um, double-check I'm using my pea-brain today) and use an awl to start the hole. If you are like me (weak with upper body) and have a nicely staffed store, you have have them do it for you. :P Helps if you are installing the screws into the heel.

Screw them in all the way (don't overtighten or you will strip out the hole) and you will be done!

Stainless steel screws will outlast the corrosion that happens with skating....the regular galvanized screws tend to break at the wrong times.

[peanutskates]

so is it bad to have that gap between the blade and sole?

[herniated]

That gap would freak me out. And no offense ...but the pro shop person needed to be clear about the whole process. Something doesn't seem right here.

[CoachPA]

no, not all of the screws are in, but the shop is far away from where I live, so the pro doesn't expect me to return to finish the mounting - I took it to be finished by him. However, he did say that he only put a few screws in and I could take them out if the blade was wrong. The part of the blade which is unattached is not screwed in.

I don't have any additional screws, however (unless I take them from my old blade, which is Ultima Mark IV, and put them on the new Coronation Ace; would that work?)

I'd think that once all the screws were in, the gap would go away. If it doesn't, I'd be concerned. Perhaps then there's some warping going on and that is not normal.

Something does seem fishy with the lack of information you got from the pro shop, so I'd call them and explain what's happening. Maybe then the skate technician can clarify what's normal and suggest a fix.

I'm also a bit confused about what you mean when you said that the pro doesn't expect you to return to finish the mounting and that you took it to be finished by him. If he was finished with the mounting, I'd hope he put all (or nearly all) the screws in.

And, what if the mounting is wrong? Is he going to mount them again for you, or does he expect you to do it yourself?

If you are going to attempt to place the remaining screws in, just be careful if doing so yourself. It's not that hard at all, but you do need to be careful not to strip them like Skate@Delaware said. That's one of the fastest ways to ruin your soles.

By the way, you can always ask for additional screws from your pro shop or whomever mounted your blades. He/she should have sent you home with extras, especially if he/she wanted you to put the rest in down the road.

[LWalsh]

It sounds like the boots were not flat on the bottom. I had a brand new pair of Pattern 99s mounted to a brand new pair of Klingbeils by a very well respected skate technician who I've used for years, and he showed me how the bottoms of the boots were not flush. He ended up putting shims in to secure the blades so there were no spaces. That's probably what you need (unless of course it is the blades that are warped not the boots). Boot bottoms are not an exact science and I think this isn't uncommon. I recall having shims on other skates throughout my life on boots mounted by other skate technicians. If the space isn't huge I don't think I'd stress over it.

Most technicians I've used only mount about half the screws, I always thought it was because if you changed blades and the holes were off you could just use the others without having to put in plugs (which would be weaker than the original holes) Perhaps it's because forcing the blade to be flush with an uneven boot could result in warping the blade plate.

lwalsh

[Rusty Blades]

DO NOT put the rest of the screws in yet. What you have is a temporary mounting to see how they feel for you. You may need to adjust the position which is why they don't put in all the screws.

Skate in them for awhile. Pay attention to your edges and spins to make sure everything is right.

If there is a gap between the sole and the blade, find a shim the right thickness and put that between the blade and the sole before adding the last of the screws.

If there is a gap and you put the rest of the screws in, you will twist the blade - BAD NEWS!

[Skate@Delaware]

I had a gap between my sole and blade at the toe part. However, I was assured by the pro (a definite pro by the way, Mike at Capital) that some boot soles being leather do need to be snugged down to the blade and just by skating in them it will happen. This was the case for me-after about 2-3 weeks it had virtually disappeared.

It sounds like your "pro" shop and the one at my rink (not Capital) are staffed by people that are not pros. :roll:

Do as Dianne suggested-skate in them for a bit to make sure that they are in the right spot-it's better to wait and make sure than to keep putting holes in your soles!!!!! You might see if they have snugged up by then.

[peanutskates]

yeah, I don't know about the whole pro thing. It is a good shop, and I've been happy with the service before. The guy there has been skating his whole life (since age 3), was an NSA gold medalist, was a coach for some years, and wrote books about skating (this is what it says on the shop site). He showed me the blades after fixing them and explained where he put the screws, but that was it really.
Thanks for the suggestions - I shall be skating for a few hours before my coach comes back, and if the gap hasn't gone by then, I'll ask him to take a look.

[Query]

If you screw hard to make them fit, you will warp the blade mount, and the blade too. Skating with them for long in this configuration will eventually do the same thing.

You can put something between the mounting plate and the boot at appropriate points - e.g., thin leather, vinyl, athletic tape. It's called a "shim". Any competent fitter would have done what was needed.

Maybe the screws have just come loose, because it was a "temporary test mount", and they thought you would come back for the final mount. If your shop is any good they will do what is needed, at no extra charge. If not, never go back, no matter the fitter's skating reputation. Ask your coach to see if they did anything else wrong.

[Mrs Redboots]

Mine did that, so my coach, after checking that the mounting suited me, added the rest of the screws for me, which solved the problem in 2 minutes flat!

If you don't care to add the extra screws yourself, ask your coach.

[CoachPA]

I wouldn't do anything without having your coach check 'em out first just to make sure there's nothing majorly wrong. This may be caused from something as minor as simply not having all the screws in or needing a shim, but I wouldn't risk the blade warping from trying to attach an incorrectly mounted blade.

[Thin-Ice]

Also while you are waiting to see if the blade and boot "snug up", make sure you are extra careful about drying the sole of your boot and your blade, so you don't let water get in there and warp anything further.

[Skate@Delaware]

Also while you are waiting to see if the blade and boot "snug up", make sure you are extra careful about drying the sole of your boot and your blade, so you don't let water get in there and warp anything further.

this includes removing your skates from your skate bag! This gives them time to air out from moisture and odors

[sk8tmum]

Mmm hmm on the taking the skates out of the bag: our skate sharpener just had a "discussion" with our daughter about that (he's great about that sort of thing with kids). She's been carrying her skates in a fairly airtight gym bag, and not taking them out to air; he's figuring she's got about an extra pound per skate in moisture INSIDE the boot from sweaty feet etc., not to mention the potential damage to her skate's leather soles and heels.

[AgnesNitt]

If a temporary shim is needed, then brass washers--or even rubber ones depending on the gap will work. Eventually you'd want to replace it with leather, but for a few hours the temp ones should be okay. I have had them put in as temps when we were doing blade adjustments.
As an engineer (see sig) the whole gap thing sounds hinky to me. More experienced posters have waved the warning flag, so I'll go back to lurking.

[peanutskates]

I thought I'd show my coach the blades and see if he could fix them... but now I'm beginning to think that the only person I can really trust is myself, because my coach had mounted my friend's blades, and there is the same gap problem there, plus the front part actually sticks out further than the boot (the heart plate part)! So I'm doubting the pro guy and my coach re their blade mounting skills...

The blades feel fine to skate on, at least, so the mounting is correct. Query mentioned about putting in an athletic tape shim, which seems to be the easiest solution (until my extra screws arrive) so I think I'll do that.

Thank you all for your help so far! =)

[sk8lady]

I hate it when I have a screw loose!! :P

[Query]

Query mentioned about putting in an athletic tape shim, which seems to be the easiest solution (until my extra screws arrive) so I think I'll do that.

The easiest solution is to go back to the pro shop, and several things could make a screw come loose (like repeated major temperature changes). Everyone makes mistakes. Why not give the guy a fair shake to make things right? Talk to him about what you would like.

For starters, if you don't apply enough pressure (pushing the screwdriver hard into the skate) when you screw things back in, or you screw it too tight, you could strip the screw hole, making things more complicated.

I suppose the adhesive slowly wears out of athletic tape shims and make the shim thinner - it quickly wears out of duct tape when placed under insoles. So tape may be a little less permanent than leather or vinyl or rubber or metal.

my friend's blades, and there is the same gap problem there, plus the front part actually sticks out further than the boot (the heart plate part)!

It's theoretically possible the coach needed to do that to get the individual skater's balance right, though I think it usually makes more sense longterm to alter balance by changing what's inside the boot than what's outside (or by telling the skater to balance more backwards), cuz strong pressures outside the well supported areas of the foot can hurt.

As an engineer (see sig) the whole gap thing sounds hinky to me. More experienced posters have waved the warning flag, so I'll go back to lurking.

As a real engineer you certainly know what to do a lot better than those of us who just experiment! I don't even know your sophisticated technical jargon (hinky - please define). You are the expert.

[Skate@Delaware]

...plus the front part actually sticks out further than the boot (the heart plate part)!
This is how the mounting on my right blade workout out...simply because it is mounted so far to the inside of the boot, it sticks out about 1/8" in front of the boot sole. I don't care, as now I'm more balanced.

No amount of adjustment could be made inside the boot to correct this. I have a congenital deformity of my hip joint-it is offset by 1/2" compared to the left hip (I am a chiropractor's dream/nightmare). Only a total hip replacement would do the trick and I'm not ready for that yet (I'm only 47 and my hips are quite healthy thank you very much). ;)

[AgnesNitt]

As a real engineer you certainly know what to do a lot better than those of us who just experiment! I don't even know your sophisticated technical jargon (hinky - please define). You are the expert.


hinky (adj) suspect, out of whack,

[daisies]

This is how the mounting on my right blade workout out...simply because it is mounted so far to the inside of the boot, it sticks out about 1/8" in front of the boot sole. I don't care, as now I'm more balanced.

No amount of adjustment could be made inside the boot to correct this. I have a congenital deformity of my hip joint-it is offset by 1/2" compared to the left hip (I am a chiropractor's dream/nightmare). Only a total hip replacement would do the trick and I'm not ready for that yet (I'm only 47 and my hips are quite healthy thank you very much). ;)

My right blade is mounted similar to yours. It's all the way inside, and a bit of the blade actually sticks out from both the front/side of the ball and the side of the heel. I have severe pronation on my right foot because I was born with both feet turned in, so when people see where my right blade is mounted, they can't believe I'm balanced on it. But I am! (We actually had a harder time getting the mounting of my left blade correct, and that one's pretty much centered!)

[Query]

...it is mounted so far to the inside of the boot, it sticks out about 1/8" in front of the boot sole....

No amount of adjustment could be made inside the boot to correct this. I have a congenital deformity of my hip joint-it is offset by 1/2" compared to the left hip (I am a chiropractor's dream/nightmare).

Do you mean that the right leg is mounted inwards (towards the center) of where it "should be", so that if you try to bear your weight down the center of the foot and leg bone structures, the weight is borne somewhat diagonally across the spine, rather than straight down it? I.e., that you are compromising between getting the weight load right on the leg and spinal sections of your body, and you have been informed by a medical specialist that you get a healthier result by bearing weight on the left side of the lower right leg? I can sort of picture that.

Or do you simply mean what I have, which I think is supposed to be more common, that one leg is shorter than the other, and/or that the bottom of the right foot tilts so that its left side is lower than its right side? These two conditions can be handled by putting wedges and lifts inside the boot (of course you have to shape the rest of the boot to match - if it was a custom boot, fit by someone who knew what they were doing, that would have been done by the boot maker). If these two conditions are more common are handled the way you have, by offsetting the weight load almost entirely to the inside, it obviously places diagonally asymmetric loads on bones, muscles and ligaments, which could generate bone fractures (because part of your bones are subject to tension, something the stuff that bones are made of handles badly), muscle and ligament inflammation (because one side of your leg is consistently maintaining by muscle and ligament tension), or maybe compartment syndromes (if those habitually overused muscles over-develop until they overfill the leg's internal compartments, squeezing out blood and nerve conduction).

If you haven't already, it might make sense to talk to a qualified medical specialist about whether offsetting the blade, and hence the weight load, is the optimal solution for your body. The damage that could be done, if I understand correctly, could be substantial.

P.S. Let me say again - I'm not a doctor or other medical specialist. I'm just trying to apply intuitive level physics and personal experience here, which may be wrong for you.

[Skate@Delaware]

Do you mean that the right leg is mounted inwards (towards the center) of where it "should be", so that if you try to bear your weight down the center of the foot and leg bone structures, the weight is borne somewhat diagonally across the spine, rather than straight down it? I.e., that you are compromising between getting the weight load right on the leg and spinal sections of your body, and you have been informed by a medical specialist that you get a healthier result by bearing weight on the left side of the lower right leg? I can sort of picture that.

Or do you simply mean what I have, which I think is supposed to be more common, that one leg is shorter than the other, and/or that the bottom of the right foot tilts so that its left side is lower than its right side? These two conditions can be handled by putting wedges and lifts inside the boot.(remainder snipped)

My actual acetabulum (the part of the pelvis that the femur joins with) on the right side is offset more to the midline (i.e. inside). What this does is place more of my weight to the inside. Yes it does create a difference in the length of my legs, but not significantly so and not any different than the norm (almost everyone has one leg longer than the other, just some are more affected by it than others).

I do not pronate supinate or anything. It is an orthopedic deformity. No amount of shims will correct the placement of weight. Placing the blade to the inside of the boot allowed the blade to be more correctly aligned with the placement of weight on that side. It doesn't affect my in any other way unless I run, then you will notice I have a strange gait-more swingy (I call it "running like a girl").

So, yes a rather long-winded answer to your question that my weight is placed more to the inside of my right foot and if you were to take a pressure-plate reading of my feet, you will see it. It is really remarkable when I stand on one foot. Evenly placed when I do so on the left, really bad on the right (and it got worse after my back surgery thanks to nerve damage and the resulting stenosis-ugh!).

[bootsnblades]

Are u sure the ppl in ur PRO SHOP really are "pros"?

[peanutskates]

Just to close the question:

When my coach saw the blades, he said they were wrongly mounted in general (not centred etc) so he re-mounted them and now there is no gap.

I have concluded that I will not involve the shop pro in matters beyond paying for goods from now on :lol: