Have You Ever Seen Another Coach...

[dbny]

Have you ever seen another coach do something (or not do something) that might have caused a student's injury? This is a touchy subject, because any of us can make a mistake, but I recently saw a coach teaching an adult in such a way that I could see an accident brewing. It's frustrating that there is absolutely nothing that can be done. Maybe, if the other coach and I were already friends, I might venture something along the lines of "I saw such and such happen when...", or "I prefer to.... because....". But when you don't know the other coach you're just stuck watching the train wreck.

[jskater49]

I had a power class once where the coach would make us stretch first thing in the early morning before warm up. I didn't think that was such a good idea but I didn't say anything...I just didn't stretch real hard. Fortunately I think everyone else in the class knew better too.

[CoachPA]

Have you ever seen another coach do something (or not do something) that might have caused a student's injury? This is a touchy subject, because any of us can make a mistake, but I recently saw a coach teaching an adult in such a way that I could see an accident brewing. It's frustrating that there is absolutely nothing that can be done. Maybe, if the other coach and I were already friends, I might venture something along the lines of "I saw such and such happen when...", or "I prefer to.... because....". But when you don't know the other coach you're just stuck watching the train wreck.

I tend to see this with a lot of beginner coaches, usually junior coaches in their teens. Watching them coach is like watching experimental coaching techniques. But like you said, anyone can make a mistake, and I'm sure if we all look back on our earlier years of coaching, we've all tried some crazy approach at one point or another that would make us cringe now.

With experience and continuing their coaching education (whether from other coaches or mentors, coaching seminars/conferences, etc.) most coaches will be able to develop a better idea of what techniques work for what type of skater, skill level, element, and so on.

What concerns me is when I see a coach having a skater attempt an element that is way beyond their ability. For instance, there are several skaters at my rink attempting axels when they still struggle with back crossovers and many of their singles! Not only is this frustrating for the skater but this can also lead to serious injury, which I think is at the heart of this thread.

[RachelSk8er]

I've seen it mostly in synchro.

I worked at a rink in HS and it was one of the few open all summer (so all the synchro teams in the area would practice there). I once saw a synchro coach--not from my club but one of the others there for summer--using a rope to TIE HIS SKATERS TOGETHER. This wasn't a novice, junior or senior team of strong skaters, either. They were little kids just out of learn to skate. He took a rope, looped it once around one kid's waist, then around the next kid's waist, and so on. They were in a block (formation of 4 or so lines, 4-6 kids in each line), all tied to each other. So if they got too far apart, it would squeeze their waists and they would learn to skate with the correct spacing. I was outraged at this, and it took every ounce of self control to not run out of the rink office and ask this dufus what the heck he was doing. Without being tied together, in synchro, with little kids who can hardly skate, one goes down in a block, others are bound to go down with them, they didn't need to be tied together to make the risk of injury worse. They all did go down in a huge pile. I've never in all my years of skating synchro, coaching, attending PSA seminars, etc seen or heard of a coach doing this (I started on juvenile, worked my way up every qualifying level through senior, and was on teams that medalled nationally...not once did a coach tie us together in an effort to teach us to skate in a block, lined up, with the correct spacing, nor would I have even thought of doing this to my teams when I coached. There are safe, logical ways to go about doing this).

This same coach is still around and still trying to make teams do things way too dangerous/beyond their ability, like having an adult masters team with skaters who can hardly do a back lunge doing back lunge intersections (these are mostly adults-who-became-skaters, not a team full of skaters-who-became-adults who would have done this when they were younger). This move is dangerous for teams of strong skaters (and actually not even worth it any more under IJS because lines coming straight at each other and a lunge is not a high level move like a turn or spread eagle), let alone skaters who are not strong enough to go down, get up, maintain spacing, etc.

I also get REALLY nervous when I see senior teams (allowed to do lifts in the free) doing them without proper training or lacking upper body strength. You don't see this with top teams--the Finnish teams, Team Surprise, the top Canadian teams, the Haydenettes, Crystallettes, Miami because they have the resources (pairs coaches, weight training programs, training time), although even skaters on these teams have gotten hurt in lift accidents, too. However, there have been weaker teams at US nationals and from some of the smaller countries at internationals/worlds who looked like they were about to kill each other in attempting to do lifts, it's very scarry to watch. Lifts aren't even required and you can do other things in that section of the program that are easier and safer, if you have good freestylers--you only need a few to do flying camels, a spin with change of foot/position, bielmanns, or outside spread eagles and it will earn you the same amount of points as a lift which both travels and rotates (probably with a higher GOE than crappy, wobbly lifts), so doing them when you don't need to is really a bad coaching/choreography decision.

[phoenix]

I can't say I've seen any coaches endangering their students, but I was cringing to no end yesterday at the rink listening to a father coaching his 2 daughters on their jumps, including one who's working on double axel! I had to seriously bite my tongue--but their coach was there (with another student), so maybe she's okay with it. Oy. :!:

[CoachPA]

I once saw a synchro coach--not from my club but one of the others there for summer--using a rope to TIE HIS SKATERS TOGETHER. This wasn't a novice, junior or senior team of strong skaters, either. They were little kids just out of learn to skate. He took a rope, looped it once around one kid's waist, then around the next kid's waist, and so on. They were in a block (formation of 4 or so lines, 4-6 kids in each line), all tied to each other. So if they got too far apart, it would squeeze their waists and they would learn to skate with the correct spacing.

Wow. As a coach who assitant coaches a beginner level synchro team, I couldn't even imagine tying my 6-12 year olds together (or any other age or level of skaters for that matter)! As you said, there are other safe, effective ways to teach formations and spacing without resorting to dangerous methods (like, whatever happened to teaching kids how to count, keep an arm's length apart in a block, use the glass to see the reflection of a block, etc.). :roll:

I can't help but wonder what this coach's logic was, I mean, aside from the physical pain of the rope squeezing into these poor kids' waists. Not only is his "technique" completely ridiculous, but it's horribly unsafe. One of the first things we teach any beginning synchro skater, whether at the beginner level or on our higher level teams, is to let go when one falls. The fact that this coach either a.) didn't care about risking injury to his skaters and/or b.) didn't know how unsafe it can be to tie skaters, especially synchro skaters, together, makes me question his coaching education/experience and ethics. If his rope tying was due to the latter, perhaps he should remember that ignorance is no excuse.

[RachelSk8er]

I can't say I've seen any coaches endangering their students, but I was cringing to no end yesterday at the rink listening to a father coaching his 2 daughters on their jumps, including one who's working on double axel! I had to seriously bite my tongue--but their coach was there (with another student), so maybe she's okay with it. Oy. :!:

We had one of those, this father would stand in the hockey box and yell at his daughter and two sons on the rink's open freestyle sessions (parents were banned from being in the box at club sessions). I felt so bad for the daughter one day, she's a great skater--has double jumps, not terribly flexible, so not a future national champion or anything like that, but she was a pretty skater who would do well competing test track, or in a few years when she goes off to college she'd do well at intercollegiate conference competitions. The dad one day was screaming at her to bend more when she was trying to get a bielmann spin. The poor girl just doesn't have the flexibility and her dad didn't understand that. I wanted to ask him to come out and demonstrate (it was REALLY annoying being on the ice when he was screaming at his three kids). I haven't seen any of them around the rink the past few months, I wonder if they all decided to quit. (Which is a shame...I'm sure the kids would have more fun if the parent laid off.)

[teresa]

Yes. The coach has good intentions I'm sure but I definitely have had moments of concern watching. I've had others share their concerns too so I'm pretty sure we have honest concerns.

teresa