Boys vs. Girls in Competition?

[amcnulty]

Is there any reason why boys and girls can't be combined into one group for competition?

The reason that I ask is that my son has never competed an individual event against anyone. He is 7 and in ISI Beta. At his age and level I do not see any reason to seperate him from the girls. It would be so nice for him to have a chance to actually compete against someone.

Thanks!

[Debbie S]

I've never been to an ISI comp, only USFSA, but I've seen girls and boys combined at Basic Skills comps - badge/group lesson levels. Beyond that, at test levels, I've seen girls and boys occasionally combined in Spins and Compulsory Moves events at the lower levels, but never for freestyle at any level. Sometimes they'll be combined for Spins but not CM b/c jumps are involved in CM. It depends on the club's policies and what the comp referee decides to do.

I have also seen boys and girls combined in artistic/showcase events - I think the rationale there is that it's about skating skills and presentation, and not athletic skills.

[twokidsskatemom]

I've never been to an ISI comp, only USFSA, but I've seen girls and boys combined at Basic Skills comps - badge/group lesson levels. Beyond that, at test levels, I've seen girls and boys occasionally combined in Spins and Compulsory Moves events at the lower levels, but never for freestyle at any level. Sometimes they'll be combined for Spins but not CM b/c jumps are involved in CM. It depends on the club's policies and what the comp referee decides to do.

I have also seen boys and girls combined in artistic/showcase events - I think the rationale there is that it's about skating skills and presentation, and not athletic skills.
In ISI as far as I know, they arent together in fs programs but everything else ie spotlight,spins,comp moves ect,The same in USFSA, not in fs programs.My son has competed in comp moves pre pre with a girl.Also in ISI 4 with girls.
I would assume that it is due to boys being stronger.Different muscles groups are stronger.
Have your son do a spotlight, edges, stroking, ect and he will be with someone else..ISI has tons of events he can be with girls.
HTH

[fsk8r]

The two adult freestyle competitions I've done the solitary man was combined in with the women. He did make comment about it (think he might have liked the guaranteed gold medal) but also said that he liked having a competition to skate in. I don't think his placement was affected because of it. He was competing adult bronze and there's a set standard that you're meant to be, so I don't see why gender would make much of a difference. If you're a higher standard you'd be in a higher category.

I think the gender divide is all for historic reasons rather than practical ones at the lower levels. Synchro proves that mixed gender doesn't affect results.

[jskater49]

I've often competed against men in adult comps. In USFS I've seen them often combined. My dd had to compete against a boy in compulsory in prelim and she thought it was unfair because the girls had to do a layback and the boys didn't. But she still beat him.

j

[that-maleskater]

The two adult freestyle competitions I've done the solitary man was combined in with the women. He did make comment about it (think he might have liked the guaranteed gold medal) but also said that he liked having a competition to skate in. I don't think his placement was affected because of it. He was competing adult bronze and there's a set standard that you're meant to be, so I don't see why gender would make much of a difference. If you're a higher standard you'd be in a higher category.

He did certainly prefer having someone to skate against as opposed to skating alone, however doesn't believe it is necessarily so comparable and would rather there were a split as has been the case at other competitions he has entered - but of course that demands other male entrants. Happy to admit to being rubbish though - guess you ladies are just too talented :bow:

[Isk8NYC]

The ISI usually divides by gender. They're all about participation and don't want to discourage anyone.

I've heard complaints from parents of BOYS that said it was unfair when their SONS skated against the girls. The girls were "more graceful, naturally."

Six of one, half-dozen of the other.

[blue111moon]

USFS Rules prohibit combining mles and females in free-skating competition. Sometimes the referee in non-qualifying competitions will allow it in the interest of giving the male someone to compete against but they don't have to. When my club does it, we always ask the females if they mind. Generally they don't, but I have had a couple coaches refuse to allow the boy to skate against girls, claiming that the boy will get enough ridicule for being in a "girls' sport" without making him skate against girls.

Personally, I've competed against (and been beaten by) males quite a few times. Doesn';t bother me, but I know some women who have refused.

And for Basic Skills Competitions, it doesn't matter since everyone in a group is doing the same elements anyway.

[sk8tmum]

USFS but I have had a couple coaches refuse to allow the boy to skate against girls, claiming that the boy will get enough ridicule for being in a "girls' sport" without making him skate against girls.
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Re the above: my son (pre-teen) would be very uncomfortable skating in FS for exactly that reason. He's gotten enough grief and teasing over the many years he has been skating and competing and has stuck it out despite being physically beaten up, harassed, and accused of all sorts of things. Being put "in with the girls" would be an issue for him. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, PLEASE don't jump all over me, but, that's the way he (and other boys I know) feel about skating with girls. Probably, with age and maturity, it would dissipate.

However, I have been at competitions where boys were openly laughed at and teased for skating "with the girls", including competitions with little boys. So, although we get frustrated with the lack of boys available for him to skate with ... that's life, and the only way we'll get MORE boys in the sport is by making it something that is considered to be ... ummm ... something that boys DO and that isn't unusual. Don't know how to solve that one easily, sadly.

[sk8tmum]

The ISI usually divides by gender. They're all about participation and don't want to discourage anyone.

I've heard complaints from parents of BOYS that said it was unfair when their SONS skated against the girls. The girls were "more graceful, naturally."

Six of one, half-dozen of the other.


Yup, and parents of GIRLS who complain because the boys were more powerful jumpers and faster and more powerful on stroking.

[Mrs Redboots]

He did certainly prefer having someone to skate against as opposed to skating alone, however doesn't believe it is necessarily so comparable and would rather there were a split as has been the case at other competitions he has entered - but of course that demands other male entrants. Happy to admit to being rubbish though - guess you ladies are just too talented :bow:

Ha! When my husband (also Bronze level, but age-group V) competed against a couple of women in Tallinn last year, he won the class, to his enormous satisfaction (he pretends not to be competitive, but who does he think he is kidding?). Of course, one of the joys of the IJS is that you can compare your scores against those of skaters at other age-groups, or in the women's class if you're a man or vice versa. I wish they would roll it out across the board here.

And, of course, male and female dancers compete against one another in solo dance, despite men often having easier steps. My mother, amused, watched one such class where the lone male skater won the bronze medal. "Ah," she said, "it's just like the pony club - they always try to put the boys on the podium if at all possible, to encourage more of them to join!"

[BatikatII]

And, of course, male and female dancers compete against one another in solo dance, despite men often having easier steps. My mother, amused, watched one such class where the lone male skater won the bronze medal. "Ah," she said, "it's just like the pony club - they always try to put the boys on the podium if at all possible, to encourage more of them to join!"

I'd have to agree with that comment. I can't begin to count the number of times a boy appeared to win in a spin spiral jump comp despite the girls in the group actually doing better elements. We always reckoned being a male meant the judges started from a higher base value (under 6.0). I am a parent of a boy and a girl skater (who also skated pairs - together) so I am not biased for or against but know what I saw!

Actually it caused a huge amount of problems at our club as the girls felt it unfair when the boys were seperate as the boys always got a medal as there were so few of them. But when they were put in together the girls felt it was still unfair as the boys invariably won (see above for one reason!). On the rare occasions the girls beat the boys, the boys (or perhaps more often their mothers!) complained that they shouldn't have to compete against girls as when the girls won it damaged their egos! My previous coach (male) said that was a big reason why boys should not be made to compete against girls and while logically they should be able to cope, I can see that it doesn't help encourage boys take up the sport when they are competing against girls.

It can be pretty discouraging for girls though, who have to compete in huge classes of maybe 18 or more. I've seen free style comps of this size where even the lowest placed girl skater could have beaten all the boys in the equivalent level boys class but the boys all medalled because there were only 3 of them. In a mixed comp the boys would have been 18, 19th and 20th (and yes the disparity in ability was that obvious on this occasion - all the girls landing doubles etc and the boys falling on everything).

It's surprising more boys don't take up the sport really since it's one they are guaranteed to do well in and get medals (at lower levels anyway), given the lack of competition!:lol: And they always get picked for shows etc while the poor girls are fighting for places.

I'm not saying there aren't some great boy skaters but that even the weakest boy skater is going to get a lot more medals/competitive success etc., than a girl of the same ability.

C'est la vie.:)

[amcnulty]

Thanks so much to everyone.

There are definately some gender issues I had not considered. We have tried entering in other events (spotlight, compulsories, and stroking) and each time he gets seperated into a male category. Family spotlight is the only event he has ever had an actual competition in.

It is a shame that the sport has so few boys.

[blue111moon]

I would also suggest that you read competition announcements carefully. The USFS ones should spell out clearly which events may allow males and females to compete in the same group. It's usually showcase and compulsory moves events, not free skating, but the announcement should make that clear.

The only other thing to do would be to contact the parents of other boys, who are possibly as frustrated as you are with not having anyone to compete against, and agree on a list of competitions to go to together, even if your kids get sick of competiting against each other. Then you know you have a group.

That's the way we started getting clubs to host adult events Way Back When. I can't tell you how many times I competed against people two and three levels higher than I was, just to show the host clubs that there were adults out there who wanted to compete. It worked though.

[twokidsskatemom]

Thanks so much to everyone.

There are definately some gender issues I had not considered. We have tried entering in other events (spotlight, compulsories, and stroking) and each time he gets seperated into a male category. Family spotlight is the only event he has ever had an actual competition in.

It is a shame that the sport has so few boys.
I dont know where you live but ISI events within my state wouldnt put boys seprate in those events. Just in Fs events.We have done ISI for 5 year and my son is always with girls. He has won and lost, so I dont think its a given boys win when skating with girls.
Are the comps local?Can you talk to the director for the event and ask for him to be be put with the girls.?No reason not to.
Even in USFSA my son is with the girls, in all but FS.I am sure you live in a bigger state than ours, and at pre pre my son has competion now.

[RachelSk8er]

I know at some adult competitions if a male is the only one to sign up for his group, he's given the option of doing an exhibition/being the only one in his event, being combined with the ladies, or if there is one or more skaters the next level up, skating up. I don't think it's a big deal in adult, since particularly at smaller competitions we also don't get the luxury of having age classes separated, so there is always a pretty wide range of ability within an group anyway. I'm competing in a week and a half and there is one group. I'm age class I, I know at least one of the skaters I'm against is in age class IV, and the male I've competed against (also a IV) may very well be there, too.

[Petlover]

Last September at Peach Classic, I skated against more men than women. It was actually really fun! The guys were great, sometimes they finished ahead of me, sometimes I finished ahead of them. We all ended up being buddies by the end of the competition.