AARGH! Kids on ice during LTS

[Skittl1321]

This is nothing more than a rant- but URGH.

Yesterday during my SS 1 class I was singing a song with my class and all of the sudden I felt someone slam into me and almost fell. Now, snowplow is isolated in a corner of the rink, and none of the other classes come near us, and all the class kids were in front of me. I was baffled on why I had suddenly almost fallen down.

A kid who wasn't in lesson was just playing around, completely out of control, not paying attention to anything.

Then during MY lesson we were working on moves patterns, so I had to dodge quite a few classes, which was fine. But then I had to dodge kids who shouldn't have been on the ice at all. That is NOT fine. I'm paying for the time, not them.

I do not understand why these kids will not stay off the ice. It's always the same ones and we tell them constantly that if they are not in lesson they can't be on the ice. I even have a few kids who I walk off the ice after their class because otherwise they won't leave.

We have one who is about Basic 2, a repeat offender. She is a teeny little thing and her mom sets her on the ice to "practice". She does this during the last class time which is Freestyle 4, Basic 8 and Basic 7. The instructors have actually had to pick the girl up and skate her off the ice because she moves so slow and it wastes class time, but it's NOT SAFE to be standing in the middle of a group working on jumps or back spirals. When I talked to this mom (and told her there was a public skate session she could use a pass to practice on in 30 minutes) she told me this time was better, and it was better than a public session because those are so crazy. yeah- public sessions might be crazy, but freestyle skaters in group lessons aren't watching for tiny tots! Not to mention you aren't paying for the ice time. I told her I was in the middle of a class, didn't have time to discuss this, but her daughter could not be on the ice, go take it up with the skate director.


If you aren't in lesson STAY OFF THE ICE. If you're kid isn't in lesson- keep them off the ice.

-rant over- sorry 'bout that.

[CoachPA]

Yesterday during my SS 1 class I was singing a song with my class and all of the sudden I felt someone slam into me and almost fell. Now, snowplow is isolated in a corner of the rink, and none of the other classes come near us, and all the class kids were in front of me. I was baffled on why I had suddenly almost fallen down.

Is it possible for you to cone the area off using those bright orange cones? We used to do that for our Little Stars class that was taught on a public, and with the exception of a few hockey boys who would weave in and out of the cones, most people respected our space.

I do not understand why these kids will not stay off the ice. It's always the same ones and we tell them constantly that if they are not in lesson they can't be on the ice. I even have a few kids who I walk off the ice after their class because otherwise they won't leave.

Do you have an ice monitor? At my rink, ours lets no one get by without paying and makes sure that skaters are skating on the appropriate session for the appropriate amount of time paid for.

What about mentioning this to your skating director?

[Skittl1321]

Like I said- just a rant, but yes, the skating director is aware, and best she can she tries to police it.

This is during LTS class time, not a public session, so we don't have cones (no group lessons are taught during publics)- the coaches just have a "map" of where each class should be, and in theory, there shouldn't be strays on the ice.

The ice monitor issue- I suppose is seperate, as it doesn't have to do with LTS, but with public ice- but oh my goodness. I don't skate on public sessions anymore, too scary, quite honestly, but they have NO rules, no monitors. it was nice when I was just learning, and scared to skate freestyle, because you could do anything on publics, but now that I'm better I just see it as frightening. The kids with triples stay off publics and just do freestyle ice, but you see camel spins and doubles on public ice, along with clueless, reckless skaters- many of who are talking or texting on cell phones, with no direction rules or "stay out of the center" that most rinks have. It is absolutely insane.

It's also rare that everyone on a session will have paid. Sometimes you have to hunt down someone to give money to. I have no idea how to stay in business.

(So now I suppose these are skater rants, rather than coaches ones- but last week on freestyle we had a 7 year old beginner in rental hockey skates. "Freestyle" just makes most people think they can't skate on the session- but the rink will let anyone on who pays. Thankfully this session turned out to be pretty low- just some doubles. But the Wednesday session, sometimes I'm terrified of the skaters flying around- I imagine these non-skaters would be so clueless they wouldn't know to be scared.)

[Clarice]

Just curious - what is the difference in cost between your public ice and freestyle ice? (I've only skated on public ice at your rink.) Ours is significant enough that random beginners aren't going to pay the freestyle rate. (Although we have our hands full enough with very low-level kids with programs who need to be on freestyle ice to play their music, but are still fairly clueless.)

[Skittl1321]

Public skate is $6 ($5 for club)- it's up to 5-6 hour blocks. "Cheapskate" is a 1 hour public skate for $5 with skate rentals.

Freestyle is $9 for 1 hour. ($7 for club) The website does say "Intended for the skater with a Freestyle or higher ability level." - and the rink has signs that post public hours, so most people think they can't skate then (and they can't!), and people don't wander down during the freestyle time, but we get occasional clueless wanderers- and they let on anyone who pays. I think on a "high" session coaches might ask them to leave the ice- if the novice or junior men, or the pairs, are running programs and they'd be dangerous (to be honest, I stand by the boards when they do that!), but for the most part we just avoid them.

Club ice is $4 for members, and $6 for non-members for 1 hour, at least as of last year there was no guesting limit, and you don't need a member "sponsor" to be on ice. I'm not a club member (local club is WAY more expensive than other nearby choice), and I've skated quite a few times. They have cracked down on non-registered coaches, however.

[momsk8er]

I know this is OT, but OMG I want your ice time costs! Ours is up to $16 per 45 minutes in some places. Lowest I have found in the area is $8. Our club ice is $12 for members, $10 if you buy a package. But we lose money at that rate.

[BatikatII]

During our learn to skate to courses there was an end section coned off for 'practice' during the classes so that those who arrived early could practice before their lessons and those finishing lessons could practice what they'd learned. Initially this was free for those taking lessons but I think they added a bit to the course fee eventually to cover it. It kept those practising out of the way of the lessons while acknowledging that people found it hard to practice during the public session that followed.

Our patch sessions (=freestyle) are not open to the public and definitly not to anyone in rental skates. Our coaches will always have a word with anyone who tries to get on when it is not public session. I would have thought the learn to skate coaches at your rink should be telling the kids to get off if they don't have lessons.

The coaches should be taking this up with the parents and letting them know that if the kids dont abide by the rules not only they are a danger to themselves and others but that they will not be allowed to continue in lessons if they don't respect the rules.

[Skittl1321]

momsk8er- I noticed your location, perhaps you should look at mine and try the "move to the middle of nowhere (which isn't actually true- it's nice here), and skate in a mall" approach.

BatikatII- was the coned area supervised at all? The director had thought to do that, but worried about the liability of allowing kids on the ice to practice, during LTS, when all the coaches were teaching LTS. Since it wasn't a "public" session, she was worried the liability would fall to the coaches, rather than the "skate at your own risk". We might have to bring that idea up again though. These kids parents just don't care- they aren't the figure skaters/hockey players, they are casual skaters who do it in the winter. I do wish we could just not allow the true problem kids to not reregister, but the program is just too small to turn anyone down- the rink needs the money. (Everything is rink done, not club, which is part of the problem. We aren't a training center. The club buys their 1 hour of ice a week from the rink, but that is all they have control of. Club session is more of an "exclusive public" than it is freestyle. Lots of kids playing, some in hockey skates.)

[kimberley801]

I totally know how you feel. I was in a LTS lesson working on BO3s and loop attempts and TWO kids slammed right into me, even AFTER my coach warned them. Needless to say I bruised my tailbone and was off the ice for over a week.

LTS should be a closed rink and classes need to be better managed. Extra helpers or monitors would be great.

[isakswings]

This is nothing more than a rant- but URGH.

Yesterday during my SS 1 class I was singing a song with my class and all of the sudden I felt someone slam into me and almost fell. Now, snowplow is isolated in a corner of the rink, and none of the other classes come near us, and all the class kids were in front of me. I was baffled on why I had suddenly almost fallen down.

A kid who wasn't in lesson was just playing around, completely out of control, not paying attention to anything.

Then during MY lesson we were working on moves patterns, so I had to dodge quite a few classes, which was fine. But then I had to dodge kids who shouldn't have been on the ice at all. That is NOT fine. I'm paying for the time, not them.

I do not understand why these kids will not stay off the ice. It's always the same ones and we tell them constantly that if they are not in lesson they can't be on the ice. I even have a few kids who I walk off the ice after their class because otherwise they won't leave.

We have one who is about Basic 2, a repeat offender. She is a teeny little thing and her mom sets her on the ice to "practice". She does this during the last class time which is Freestyle 4, Basic 8 and Basic 7. The instructors have actually had to pick the girl up and skate her off the ice because she moves so slow and it wastes class time, but it's NOT SAFE to be standing in the middle of a group working on jumps or back spirals. When I talked to this mom (and told her there was a public skate session she could use a pass to practice on in 30 minutes) she told me this time was better, and it was better than a public session because those are so crazy. yeah- public sessions might be crazy, but freestyle skaters in group lessons aren't watching for tiny tots! Not to mention you aren't paying for the ice time. I told her I was in the middle of a class, didn't have time to discuss this, but her daughter could not be on the ice, go take it up with the skate director.


If you aren't in lesson STAY OFF THE ICE. If you're kid isn't in lesson- keep them off the ice.

-rant over- sorry 'bout that.

That BUGS me too! A lot of parents figure since there are not many people out there, there is not any harm in letting your kid skate. Like you said, putting a newbie on the ice with more experienced skaters is not a good idea and is a sure way to them getting hurt. Inexperienced skaters do not watch what they are doing. They are not aware of other skaters and just do their stuff w/o giving it a second thought.

I wish more parents would make sure their students followed the rules. The rules are there for a reason. I am sure if one of their students were to be injured, they would complain. Yet, they still seem to think it is OK to let their kids skate. I feel your pain.

[Schmeck]

Wow, the 5 years I was involved in LTS never showed any of these problems! We had a lot of volunteer parents though, and they monitored the gate so no one could get on who wasn't supposed to be on. We also cleared the ice surface between levels, even if the zamboni wasn't scheduled to go on.

The balls of some parents, to put their kids on the ice without paying! I see that as a form of theft, as someone has to pay for the ice time, and it just ends up costing others more.

I know the OP just wanted to rant, but can I suggest getting some of the more "highly aware" parents involved in some monitoring?

[Isk8NYC]

I've taught at a few rinks that offered a coned-off practice area during the group lessons. It was at the far end of the ice - cones on the blue line; separate door to get on; the younger "assistants" earned freestyle punches by volunteering to monitor.

The lessons were 30 minutes, but there were two sessions back-to-back. Everyone came at the beginning, some went right to their lessons and the rest went to the practice area. After a half-hour, they switched - the practicing skaters went to lessons and the students who had just had a lesson went to practice.

The skating director at the OP's rink should put a stop to the freewheeling once and for all. Either set aside a practice area or ban all practicing during the lessons. It's a liability to allow it to continue. Someone will get hurt, and parents will complain about the near collisions.

As for the 2-year old whose mother is interested in her own convenience, one rink I taught at did allow private lessons during group time when the classes weren't too crowded. If the private student wasn't in the skating school programs, they were charged the freestyle rate plus an annual registration fee for the school. (Which covered the USFSA Basic Skills membership, a book and patches, etc.)


Just a footnote: many of the schools I've taught at use cones to separate the different classes. It keeps the kids from drifting into the other classes' space and gives us useful obstacles to use for slaloms, swizzles, and stops. I will say that one of the rinks went over-the-top. We must have put out 100 cones for every LTS class, including the huge road hazard ones with "flagpoles" stuck into them to give the skaters a visual guide in finding their teacher/class. The school paid three instructors for a half-hour of setup time! Profits must have been low that year.

I think the little soccer cones work better, just a 6 on each line and one or two across if needed. Setting up gets the instructors on the ice earlier. If you miss setup, you do cleanup. I usually enlist my students to help with cleanup - it gets them involved, makes them feel important, and helps them practice their skating.

I have the BEST HELPER on Tuesdays. He comes early and skates at the public session then waits at the door for me to go get cones. He sets them up for me and later uses his hockey stick to gather and stack them. He's in my group lesson, but I'm about to move him to the hockey program. I have to give him some sort of a holiday gift - he's just a great kid and I appreciate his help since three out of the five coaches always arrive at the last-minute and take off without helping to clean up.