Starting half axels...

[jazzpants]

Okay so now both primary and secondary coaches are on the same page and thinks I should start doing half axels. But HOW THE HELL am I supposed to get the feeling of jumping up forward and then rotate? I mean, I could jump up and rotate from a stand still, but jump forward and rotating? NAH- AAAAH!!! NO WAY!!!

Anyone has any suggestions on getting me to not chicken out of doing this??? I'm not sure I can even get myself to NOT chicken out of jumping up and rotate and land on two feet at this point... :??

(BTW: This is just for fun and I expect this to be a VERY LONG term goal... but I just want to get started on it and see if I could do it.)

[kander]

You might try a harness lesson.

P.S. is your life insurance paid up? :twisted:

[dbny]

Think of it as a super waltz jump; it's the same take off. Do they have you doing waltz, loop combo? Also waltz into backspin on landing.

[flo]

Ick - do you mean land forward? I'd rather go for the full one and fall.

[NoVa Sk8r]

Do you mean to do a bell jump? That's where you go for the axel but land forward on two feet after one rotation--which is technically 2/3 of an axel. ;)

[doubletoe]

It's the combination of a bunny hop and a waltz-loop. Do a few waltz-loops, then do a few bunny hops before trying the half axel and it will feel a lot less scary. The bunny hop will give you that feeling of springing straight up off the toe, lifting with the knee of the free leg, then straightening that leg and pointing the toes to land on the toe and push off (it's all about taking off and landing with pointed toes, straight up and down, not pitching forward). The half axel is just a waltz-loop where you just push off forward as you land on the toe instead of staying backward and doing the loop. It's not as much rotation as you think.

[jazzpants]

NoVa...

It's what doubletoe had in the 1:22 mark (beginning of the footwork) on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzbGYcv1zmc)!!!

Thanks doubletoe! I'll try it.

Keep those suggestions coming! I will try this again when I'm feeling better and am back on the ice again. (Those of you who are NOT on Facebook or have yet to see my status message, I'm recovering from a minor bout of either some sort of bug or mild dehydration. I don't know which though at this point, but am drinking a LOT of water to see how much better I feel tomorrow morning. Meanwhile, I'm typing on my work laptop (which I brought home) and lying comfortably typing in bed!!! :) )

[NoVa Sk8r]

NoVa...

It's what doubletoe had in the 1:22 mark (beginning of the footwork) on this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzbGYcv1zmc)!!![a.k.a. a bell jump 8-)]

[jazzpants]

You might try a harness lesson.

P.S. is your life insurance paid up? :twisted:
It's looking that way, though I won't expect that lesson for quite a while... As you saw at my lesson notes last Wed, secondary coach has enough other things to kill me...ummm, "to have me work on"... :twisted:

I will never been "rich enough" for my husband.. :P :lol:

[mdvask8r]

Do you take a ballet class? Try emboite' turns on the floor. They only go a half turn w/each jump. Then add a little more rotation to the turn and after landing on the R, push immediately onto the L. Helps if you spot the front wall.

This little jump is made less scary knowing that even if you don't make it all the way around, you can easily land on the R toe and finish the rotation on the ice as you push to the L foot.

It's a fun one, and great in footwork.

[antmanb]

What exactly is a half axel? For some reason the youtube video posted earlier won't work for me.

Many thanks
Anthony

[MQSeries]

I guess a half-axel is a 1 revolution jump? So for CCW skater, you take off forward from the left leg and then land forward probably with the left toe-pick hitting the ice first on the landing. I can see a move like that being incoporated into footwork sequences or as a combination into a 2-toe (half axel - RFI three turn - 2toe), for example.

[mdvask8r]

Actually, a CCW half-axel would land on the R toe pick then push to a LFO edge.

[Sessy]

Mmm 1,5 years ago, before all this nightmare with my leg, the club coaches had me try those. It was actually pretty easy if you stopped thinking, cuz hey it's only 1 rotation, and so you don't really need more airtime than on a loop or so. And I'm assuming you can do a few 1-rotational jumps, or they wouldn't ask you to do it. So, you've already got the height, it's just a matter of getting the takeoff right.

Anyway what I found I needed was not to think of it like 'I have to get around I have to get around', but like, 'just do the waltz jump and make sure to do it all the way like a waltz jump', until I was at the highest point in the air, at which point just I to tried to think of doing something loop-ish, the loop being my favourite jump second with the half-loop... I thought the landing felt a lot like the half-loop or the falling leaf.
Cuz when I thought of doing the full 1 rotation I'd sort of, try to stay tight at the takeoff and I'd never get into the air, really. If I just swung up very very hard like for a biiiiiig waltz jump, I would go up into the air, and if I then started acting like I was doing a half loop, I would land forwards.

Of course as soon as I landed just one by evil chance in front of the coach she started demanding 1,5 rotations knowing full well there was no wayyy I was gonna pull those off but demanding I try anyway, so you might wanna think about whether or not you wanna do this. :twisted:
Or buy a michelin-man costume... Cuz... auch. Renaissance-age shipmen naval punishments for boys with the paddle pale in comparison to landing on your butt for a quarter hour... :twisted:

[doubletoe]

This little jump is made less scary knowing that even if you don't make it all the way around, you can easily land on the R toe and finish the rotation on the ice as you push to the L foot.

That's absolutely true. You leave the ice just like a waltz jump, and even if you only do 1/2 revolution--i.e., a waltz jump--you can still land on the right toe (left toe for CW skaters like Jazzpants) and pivot on the toe for the remaining half turn as you push off forward onto your other foot. In fact, I think I most skaters land sort of sideways on the toepick, just like a side tap, because it just feels more natural to push off forward from that angle. So that means it's really only 1/4 turn more than a waltz jump!

[RachelSk8er]

Work it off-ice as much as possible.

I personally don't like bell jumps because I don't think it helps the feeling of getting over the R side (which is the whole problem with why my axel isn't clean to begin with), but to each her own. It *did* initially help me get over the fear of the jump.

And as for the suggestion that it's just like a big waltz jump--this is true, but you really need to focus more on driving the R knee up and through on an axel (and any jump you use to train toward it), so your technique even on a waltz jump you use to practice axel take-off might differ slightly from a "normal" waltz jump.

[BCNKing]

I think the scariest part of an axel is to transfer your weight on your right leg and stay there until the landing. So doing "half axels" won't help much in getting that feeling of "squeezing" on top of your right leg while rotating.

A good exercise is waltz jump+loop+right leg spin, this way you keep your weight on your right leg all the time (right handed skaters of course).

Also train your axel off-ice, that helps you strengthen your body and gain confidence.

You could try too throwing axels from still. That's how I landed my first one.

Hope that helps;o)

[Mel On Ice]

Congrats Johanna, it's always a big deal to officially say "I'm working on my axel"!

Bell jumps scare the living **** out of me personally, I'd rather go for it and land on my meat instead of my face.

Here's the series of prep manuevers I've done for axel attempts:

waltz-loop

waltz-backspin (hate this)

from a Kathy Casey seminar: from a standstill, the loaf of bread, cross your heart. Heh? I'm in t-position, bouncy knees, hands a loaf of bread apart that I sweep down past my hips, then scoop up as I leap, arms crossed over my heart. It is the method we are using sporatically as I half-heartedly attempt them.

[doubletoe]

Now that I have done both half axels and full axels, I actually see a lot of value in doing the half axel. One of the hardest parts of the axel is to take off with a bent landing leg leading you into the air, then really straighten that landing leg and point the toes as soon as you do the first half turn in the air. The half axel forces you to do this because you have to land on that toepick and your landing leg has to be straight. Once you can do the half axel, it is MUCH safer to practice the full axel because you are straight in the air, your landing leg is straight and you're landing on your toepick so you can either finish the rotation on the pick or hop out of it if you land underrotated. Those are much better options than falling!

[RachelSk8er]

Congrats Johanna, it's always a big deal to officially say "I'm working on my axel"!

Bell jumps scare the living **** out of me personally, I'd rather go for it and land on my meat instead of my face.

Here's the series of prep manuevers I've done for axel attempts:

waltz-loop

waltz-backspin (hate this)

from a Kathy Casey seminar: from a standstill, the loaf of bread, cross your heart. Heh? I'm in t-position, bouncy knees, hands a loaf of bread apart that I sweep down past my hips, then scoop up as I leap, arms crossed over my heart. It is the method we are using sporatically as I half-heartedly attempt them.


My coach uses analogies like jumping through a narrow doorway and for the idea of reaching out and turning into the R side he likes to describe it as grabbing and wrapping yourself around the stripper pole (well...the latter he only uses with adults and when he does I remind him that I really can't relate to the girls he dates..ha ha), but same general idea.

I actually landed two today on the proper foot but then promptly fell on my behind. I think mostly because I was more surprised that I actually landed it than anything that I didn't hold it.

Question (especially for you coaches/judges)--in a competition situation, if one scrapes the free foot down on the landing, what is the better option--leave it as is (a botched, unclean axel) or tack a toe loop onto the end so it's somewhat of a combination jump? Do you get credit for the 2nd jump at all if the first isn't clean? I'm only particularly interested in 6.0 since I'm at silver and will probably stay there for the next 37 years because of this stupid axel. (I have room for another toe loop as well as another combination jump in the program so that's not an issue.)

Another thing my coach has me do to work on the takeoff, particularly driving the knee and pushing up all the way through the L ankle/foot to the toe--he has me stand sort of next to/in front of the door to the hockey box (with the door to the hockey box open), go toward it driving the knee through and up through the toe without actually taking off from the ice (so your knee goes through the doorway and into the hockey box). You have to kind of grab the sides of the doorway and stop yourself from falling through it like a total fool, but that also teaches you to bring the arms from down low/behind you to forward without bringing them up way too high. It looks/feels completely stupid but it seems to be helping.

[Thin-Ice]

Question (especially for you coaches/judges)--in a competition situation, if one scrapes the free foot down on the landing, what is the better option--leave it as is (a botched, unclean axel) or tack a toe loop onto the end so it's somewhat of a combination jump? Do you get credit for the 2nd jump at all if the first isn't clean? I'm only particularly interested in 6.0 since I'm at silver and will probably stay there for the next 37 years because of this stupid axel. (I have room for another toe loop as well as another combination jump in the program so that's not an issue.)

As a judge in that situation, I'd rather see the combination. Yes, you'd get partial credit for a combination rather than just a not-great axel... and in some cases the judges may think it was planned. Which leads me to ask, if you "have room" for the extra combination and you don't violate the max-two-of-any-jump rule, why isn't it always an axel/toe loop in your program? You could still continue to practice just the axel, but planning on the axel/toe might build your confidence since you know you're putting your toe in the ice nearly immediately and you'd get more credit for another combination than just an axel.:?:

[CoachPA]

Another thing my coach has me do to work on the takeoff, particularly driving the knee and pushing up all the way through the L ankle/foot to the toe--he has me stand sort of next to/in front of the door to the hockey box (with the door to the hockey box open), go toward it driving the knee through and up through the toe without actually taking off from the ice (so your knee goes through the doorway and into the hockey box). You have to kind of grab the sides of the doorway and stop yourself from falling through it like a total fool, but that also teaches you to bring the arms from down low/behind you to forward without bringing them up way too high. It looks/feels completely stupid but it seems to be helping.

I use this exercise to teach in-air position (and "h" position) for axels and doubles. As foolish as you may feel, this exercise really does help!

You can also use this same exercise to help with your landing, especially since you seem to be dropping your free hip/foot upon landing. Just keep holding on to the side of the hockey box door facing away from the ice. Get in "h" position (so for a CCW skater this willl mean standing on a straight left leg with the right free leg bent slightly in front so that your lower body forms the letter "h") making sure to be on your left toe pick so that you can use your arms to spin yourself in a CCW motion toward the ice. Let go of the boards as you do this and do a tiny jump out of the doorway making sure to bring the arms in as you would for an axel. The goal is to land on one foot, just as you would for an axel, and hold that landing for at least three seconds. Focus on body alignment upon landing (staying over your right side), lifting your free hip/leg, and checking the landing.

As a judge in that situation, I'd rather see the combination. Yes, you'd get partial credit for a combination rather than just a not-great axel... and in some cases the judges may think it was planned. Which leads me to ask, if you "have room" for the extra combination and you don't violate the max-two-of-any-jump rule, why isn't it always an axel/toe loop in your program? You could still continue to practice just the axel, but planning on the axel/toe might build your confidence since you know you're putting your toe in the ice nearly immediately and you'd get more credit for another combination than just an axel.:?:

From a coach's perspective, I agree. In addition to building your confidence, working on the axel-toe combination may train your free leg to move back upon landing rather than simply hit the ice and get you in the correct alignment for the toe since you must stay over your right side on the landing in order to do a decent toe loop.

[RachelSk8er]

Which leads me to ask, if you "have room" for the extra combination and you don't violate the max-two-of-any-jump rule, why isn't it always an axel/toe loop in your program? You could still continue to practice just the axel, but planning on the axel/toe might build your confidence since you know you're putting your toe in the ice nearly immediately and you'd get more credit for another combination than just an axel.:?:

That's what I was figuring. I haven't competed with an axel or axel attempt in my program yet at all (I was bronze last year and have competed silver twice so far since). I don't have it clean, but it's consistently landed with a scrape down of the free foot, which I can get back right away and tack on a toe loop. So I was thinking of attempting the axel at my next competition, figuring I'll do the axel toe either way. (Or heck, if a miracle happens and I land it clean, I'll leave it as is and take out one of my combos later on and attempt an axel toe there--I know which one I can take out in that situation.)

Once I have a clean, consistent axel, I'll take out the single loop at the end of my program and put in a 2nd axel. Then I'm free to use that loop to make my jump sequence harder (right now it's a flip-half loop-sal because I already have a lutz loop and a loop on its own, but I can do a lutz loop loop or a flip loop loop as my jump sequence if I can get in a 2nd axel).

[doubletoe]

That's what I was figuring. I haven't competed with an axel or axel attempt in my program yet at all (I was bronze last year and have competed silver twice so far since). I don't have it clean, but it's consistently landed with a scrape down of the free foot, which I can get back right away and tack on a toe loop. So I was thinking of attempting the axel at my next competition, figuring I'll do the axel toe either way. (Or heck, if a miracle happens and I land it clean, I'll leave it as is and take out one of my combos later on and attempt an axel toe there--I know which one I can take out in that situation.)

Once I have a clean, consistent axel, I'll take out the single loop at the end of my program and put in a 2nd axel. Then I'm free to use that loop to make my jump sequence harder (right now it's a flip-half loop-sal because I already have a lutz loop and a loop on its own, but I can do a lutz loop loop or a flip loop loop as my jump sequence if I can get in a 2nd axel).

Speaking of loops, have you tried just keeping your free foot in front on the landing and doing an axel-loop? That might train you to lift your left knee as you land, so that you don't drop the left leg when you check out. :) Of course the axel-toe is great, too, since it helps with the outflow.

[RachelSk8er]

Speaking of loops, have you tried just keeping your free foot in front on the landing and doing an axel-loop? That might train you to lift your left knee as you land, so that you don't drop the left leg when you check out. :) Of course the axel-toe is great, too, since it helps with the outflow.

I was thinking of trying that too. It may also help me get/stay over my R side.

[CoachPA]

I was thinking of trying that too. It may also help me get/stay over my R side.

It sure will! You'll be much more aware of when your left side (free hip/foot/shoulder) starts to open up, which could be part of what is causing you to have difficulties landing the jump clean.

[RachelSk8er]

It sure will! You'll be much more aware of when your left side (free hip/foot/shoulder) starts to open up, which could be part of what is causing you to have difficulties landing the jump clean.

Axel day tomorrow for me. Going to try this, and also re-think my approach...I have no issue doing massive waltz jumps driving the R knee through properly and also using my full knee/foot/ankle of my L leg in the take-off. So maybe I'm thinking "rotate" too much (common mistake) and if I worry about just getting up/turning into the R side and rotating on the way down, I can trick myself into landing it.

At least I'll have proper technique when it's all said and done. I had an axel fairly easily as a kid before I quit freestyle, but at 11 yrs old, the "fling your body into the air and hope you land on one foot" technique worked most of the time...that won't cut it as an adult.

[CoachPA]

Let us know how those axels today went for you! :)

[RachelSk8er]

Ugh not well. I had my last law school final last night so my body is still in wind down/crash mode...and I was a little sore from skating so much while I was off work this week, knees were really sore. Since I'm competing tomorrow, I just worked on some of my coach's axel drills, went through one of each of my jumps, and worked on spins and skated through my program.

[CoachPA]

Well, good luck tomorrow!