back spins

[fsk8r]

Try as I might I just don't seem to ever make any progress with learning the back spin. My current best attempts, start with the inside three turn, have me three turn back to forwards, do a forward loop and three turn again to exit backwards! Sometimes I can feel this happening and stop myself, but other times it's not until I check the tracing that I see that it's happening again. I probably make better attempts when I remember to suck everything in stand up straight and don't relax the core at all (I'm thinking a corset might help), but even this doesn't give me anything vaguely consistent. I've been trying solidly for a year to sort this spin out and it's getting quite frustrating as I don't believe I'm making any progress (coach is being positive about it, but I'm thinking she's just being nice).
Any exercises to help with this spin. I have to learn the spin from the 3 turn entry (test specifications), but in messing around I can't even get into it in a change of foot spin. There's just something plain wrong in spinning on the opposite foot. (Having said which I've recently learnt an upright spin going the "wrong" way on this foot, so I know I can find the sweet spot on this foot).

[dbny]

Although you have to be able to do this spin from a FI three entry, you must first be able to do the spin period! I copied this post from a previous one I made on the same subject. This technique for teaching/learning the backspin is from my former skating director and I have had a lot of time to see it in action. I've seen two skaters get the backspin correctly on the first try with this method. Once you have it wrong, though, it's very hard to change. Nevertheless, I think it's worth a shot.


First, you have to be aware that the direction you are going to move in is backwards, not forwards, so don't start from anything moving forwards. Second, you must have your weight over the skating hip (big surprise), and anything that pulls your weight out and away is going to pull you onto the FI edge (notice that in elite competition, when they change edge from the BO, the free foot uncrosses and is usually out away from the skating foot). Assuming a CCW spin, stand on two feet with your L foot slightly pigeon toed. Push off with the L foot into what is almost a B pivot on the R foot. As you push, bring the L foot over the right into the crossed position. Keep the L foot parallel to the R foot so as to keep the hips closed. The L arm is in front, with the R arm to the side. As you push off, bring the arms in, hands meeting in front, elbows down. If you feel your weight start to shift to the FI edge, jump out of the spin (from your toe), onto your toe as if you were landing a loop.

The thing that impressed me the most is that there is never any FI edge happening. I think that if you've already got that problem it's going to be very, very difficult to beat, especially if you can't feel the difference.

[fsk8r]

Thanks for that. I'll give it a try tomorrow night. At least I've become aware that I'm on an inside edge, I've been trying this for a long time and it's only recently that it was spotted that I was on a forward edge and a little while after that, that I could "feel" I was on an inside edge. I imagine that my problems do all stem from not getting my weight over my skating foot (it seems to be a perennial problem).

If I do get my weight right, do these things just naturally start to spin? I know with my upright spin it's taken me a long time to get it spinning and it slowly increases in revolutions, although I can tell now, that the amount of spin is down to the length of time I can hold everything still.

[Skate@Delaware]

Follow dbny's advice-it really helped clarify things when I was learning to backspin. Another thing, if you pivot around, it is just like a forward one-foot spin in that there is tension in the body but you are not stiff.

It helps me if I'm softer in the knees as I pivot, and stay down a rev or so after I've lifted my free foot...it helps me center. Might be different for you, you will have to find your own "method"

[fsk8r]

Follow dbny's advice-it really helped clarify things when I was learning to backspin. Another thing, if you pivot around, it is just like a forward one-foot spin in that there is tension in the body but you are not stiff.

It helps me if I'm softer in the knees as I pivot, and stay down a rev or so after I've lifted my free foot...it helps me center. Might be different for you, you will have to find your own "method"

How are you pivoting around? I've only ever done a backward outside pivot (courtsey type thing).

[doubletoe]

To go into a backspin from a LBI pivot, do a very small, slow LFO 3-turn so you exit onto a LBI edge. Stick the right toepick into the ice at about 1:00 or 2:00 and get your weight onto the toe. Then pivot around it, opening your left shoulder and chest to the outside of the circle and looking over your left shoulder. Don't pivot on the top pick, though, pivot more on the bottom two picks so that you can go right into the spin at the end of the pivot.

[fsk8r]

Thanks for that. It sounds highly doable. I've just never seen it done before. I've only ever seen the back outside type in the UK. Just not on our learn to skate syllabus. Going to give it a try tonight and hopefully not kill myself.

[doubletoe]

Thanks for that. It sounds highly doable. I've just never seen it done before. I've only ever seen the back outside type in the UK. Just not on our learn to skate syllabus. Going to give it a try tonight and hopefully not kill myself.

It's awkward and tricky, but once you get it it will make it really easy for you to do a change foot (forward upright to back upright) spin!

[fsk8r]

It's awkward and tricky, but once you get it it will make it really easy for you to do a change foot (forward upright to back upright) spin!

Then if that's a result of being able to do it, it's worth the effort of learning.
I'm a bit sick of being bottom of the class in the spins department, and being able to moves in the field and jumps several levels up from my spin ability.

[doubletoe]

Then if that's a result of being able to do it, it's worth the effort of learning.
I'm a bit sick of being bottom of the class in the spins department, and being able to moves in the field and jumps several levels up from my spin ability.

Yep, that was me, too, LOL! Then the jumps got harder (doubles), giving me *plenty* of time for the spins to catch up. . .:roll:

[fsk8r]

Yep, that was me, too, LOL! Then the jumps got harder (doubles), giving me *plenty* of time for the spins to catch up. . .:roll:

Unfortunately I can't test up without a back spin, so there's a certain amount of stagnation... Then again, I don't think I'm ready for the axel given that my lutz is a bit of a freak of nature if and when it happens. Apparently without trying it's managing to become a salchow (not even a flip!) as I refuse to do it with any speed.

Anyway, the back inside pivot is darn tricky, but I can feel how it does put you on the right bit of the blade for doing a backspin, and I had quite a few nice half revolution back spins! OK, I can fake 3 revs on my dodgy version, but I'd rather like to get a proper spin, so I'll take half a rev at the moment. Going to keep working on that one. Might even try persuading the coach that she's going to start working on it with me that way.

[Skate@Delaware]

To go into a backspin from a LBI pivot, do a very small, slow LFO 3-turn so you exit onto a LBI edge. Stick the right toepick into the ice at about 1:00 or 2:00 and get your weight onto the toe. Then pivot around it, opening your left shoulder and chest to the outside of the circle and looking over your left shoulder. Don't pivot on the top pick, though, pivot more on the bottom two picks so that you can go right into the spin at the end of the pivot.
Another thing that helped me: as I you pivot around, your skating foot will reach a point where it's coming around in front of the pivoting foot..if you flick your foot (like you are flicking your toe) and let your heel come around your leg will open up into a better position.

Keep the knee of the skating foot soft and don't rise up right away-this will help center you.

I've been working on backspins for 3 years....they are finally starting to come together!

[sk8lady]

I practiced my backspin on a spinner for months before I finally started to get the feel of it. My coach gave me the choice of doing it from a backward pivot or from two FI edges. You do a left FI edge and then a right FI edge; flip your left hip so that you do a three-turn and then stand up straight to maintain the spin.

This works perfectly for my coach but has taken me forever to get. The spinner did help, though.

[momsk8er]

Practice, practice, practice - as if there is ever any other answer. But seriously, I have been working for 2 years on my backspin, and all that has helped is just doing it over and over and over.

[Skate@Delaware]

Practice, practice, practice - as if there is ever any other answer. But seriously, I have been working for 2 years on my backspin, and all that has helped is just doing it over and over and over.
And because we are older, it just takes us a bit longer for that "musle memory" thing to kick in; we are fighting years of conditioning from other things: sitting, bad posture, other sports that might not be as helpful for the things we do at skating.

But, we are persistent and do work harder at it than the little ones!

One word about the spinners, don't push off too hard if you have the type with the ball-bearings!!! You will spin yourself right off! Just a little tiny push will get you going.