Practice Question

[Sk8Dreamer]

How awful is it to not want to (or bother) working on things like plain stroking (with xovers on the corners) but just want to work on 3-turns, edges, first waltz jump (at wall)? In other words, I'm in a phase where I don't want to work on the old stuff, I don't want to think about increasing speed, etc. I'm much happier working on the new stuff that I don't expect myself to be able to do, or edges, which are just fun. Is that really wrong, or should I be forcing myself to "work" on everything? Just looking for opinions...

[coskater64]

Well, to put in bluntly if you don't want to get better then don't bother. Skating is a progressive sport you build on past skills if you can't do the basics then you won't be able to do the harder things or--you will end up doing the harder things badly and get trapped at a level until you decide to go back and relearn again.

JMHO8O

[doubletoe]

It's understandable that repeating the same old stuff gets boring after awhile and you'd want to mix it up and challenge yourself with something new. So go ahead and learn some new stuff to keep it interesting. If/when you put a program together, you'll need those nice strong edges between those impressive elements, so that should motivate you to keep working on those, too. :)

[Thin-Ice]

If it's just for a day or two, sure... go ahead and indulge yourself by just working on "new" and "fun" stuff. But if you're planning on make much progress, at some point you'll have to just commit to doing the "basic" stuff, since that's the real skating. I think most of us don't think "Oh goody-- I get to go to the rink and work on edges/stroking/posture!".... but we do it, because the sport is called "skating" not "jumping" or "posing".

Maybe you could convince yourself to do 2 minutes of edges, then a minute or two of something more fun, then back to the basics, then waltz jumps at the wall? Make it a package deal, instead of one or the other...?

[katz in boots]

I think I know what you mean. Working on stuff you've been doing for a while can be boring, and in the desire to make progress, it can be tempting to focus purely on the new & interesting skills.

My advice would be to use the basic skills as your warm-up. Most skaters will do stroking and crossovers as warm ups. As you advance, what becomes warm-up will be what used to be hard work for you.

After a while you have so many things to work on, you can't do everything every session.

So in my opinion it can be good to work on 'basics' for a few minutes (and I mean mindful practise, not just getting through them) to warm up your muscles and focus your mind, then later in the session work on more advanced stuff. And towards the end of the session come back to the stroking and crossovers again as your cool down.

[jenlyon60]

From a judge's point of view, the "stroking" and edges are as important, if not more so, than the jumps and spins.

All other things being equal, often the skater with the better speed and flow and edge quality will get higher placements, doesn't matter whether the scoring system is 6.0 or IJS.

For example, if a skater doesn't have the control to hold a true back outside edge into a lutz take-off, it's going to be reflected in the quality of the jump--at a minimum in the entry and take-off, and it may also be reflected in the rotation/air position. And if the skater can't control the landing and hold a good back outside edge on the landing foot, that's going to be noticed as well.

Stroking is what builds the power and flow to be able to enter the jumps and spins and transitions with some semblence of flow and speed. If you don't have effective efficient stroking, then under the IJS it will be directly reflected in your Skating Skills component score, and probably also in the Transitions component score. It may also be reflected in the Performance/Execution score and indirectly in the remaining two program components. That's on top of any possible impact on the GOE for each of your elements.

[Sk8Dreamer]

If it's just for a day or two, sure... go ahead and indulge yourself by just working on "new" and "fun" stuff. But if you're planning on make much progress, at some point you'll have to just commit to doing the "basic" stuff, since that's the real skating. I think most of us don't think "Oh goody-- I get to go to the rink and work on edges/stroking/posture!".... but we do it, because the sport is called "skating" not "jumping" or "posing".

Maybe you could convince yourself to do 2 minutes of edges, then a minute or two of something more fun, then back to the basics, then waltz jumps at the wall? Make it a package deal, instead of one or the other...?

Yes, it is just temporary--I never meant I want to stop stroking altogether.

Actually, I do edges a lot, because I enjoy them. It's just the stroking that bores me and the fact that I'm going through some kind of anti-crossover psychological block that frustrates me. Plus, the rink tends to be busy with serious competitive skaters zipping around at speed, which intimidates me. It's easier to work on things that only need a small piece of ice, though I always try to fit in edges because, as I said, I enjoy those. Anyway, alternating in shorter spurts sounds like a suggestion worth trying.

I think I know what you mean. Working on stuff you've been doing for a while can be boring, and in the desire to make progress, it can be tempting to focus purely on the new & interesting skills.

My advice would be to use the basic skills as your warm-up. Most skaters will do stroking and crossovers as warm ups. As you advance, what becomes warm-up will be what used to be hard work for you.

After a while you have so many things to work on, you can't do everything every session.

So in my opinion it can be good to work on 'basics' for a few minutes (and I mean mindful practise, not just getting through them) to warm up your muscles and focus your mind, then later in the session work on more advanced stuff. And towards the end of the session come back to the stroking and crossovers again as your cool down.

I do warm up with stroking, at least a little bit, and I love the suggestion about "mindful" practice rather than just going through the motions. Thank you. I think I will try with that attitude, which should make it more fun and challenging, or at least absorb me more. (And I have to work on the idea that I belong on the ice just as much as everyone else, and shouldn't have to hide in a corner somewhere to do my thing.) Coming back to stroking at the end is also a good idea: I always do better with that and with crossovers after I've spent time reassuring myself with edges and working on 3-turns and other things I find more challenging. "Mindful." I really have to remember that. Thanks again.

I was just curious about other people's experience with stuff like this. I've found that sometimes going away from something and coming back to it later brings improvement, or at least renewed energy, but maybe I'm just making that up to condone slacking off. I am not a competitive or testing skater, but that doesn't mean I don't want to improve and progress. But I want to keep feeling like I'm doing this for fun, and not allow it to become just one more thing in my life I have to "work" on. I guess what I'm looking for is ideas for finding a better balance. I feel like I'm at a stage in my (pretty rudimentary) skating where it feels like the work part is taking over, and I'd like to figure out how to change that so that skating will be a happier thing again.

[Skittl1321]

I'm going to voice the opposite opinion from everyone else.

Well first- I'm going to agree with "if you don't want to get better, then you don't have to"- because that's very true.

But if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. Are you skating to get to the olympics or to enjoy yourself?

I don't like to jump. So I don't. My coaches know I don't practice jumps except in group classes, and since I'm not doing a program right now, they are fine with it. But the jumps I do have aren't getting better, and I certainly am not going to get to learn any new ones until I start practicing the old ones.

[Mrs Redboots]

I would say "some and some". Yes, you need to practice your stroking and edge-work, as it's the foundation of all good skating. But other skills are nibbling at the edges, and you will want to play with them, practice what you've been taught (it's not a great idea to start working on a new skill quite by yourself, by the way - all too easy to do what you think is right and then it isn't!), and generally have fun out there.

Skating at any level should be fun - sometimes it isn't when you're preparing for a test or competition and doing nothing but those skills/programmes/dances you're going to want, but even then, there's usually time to squish in at least one or two more fun bits each session.

When I didn't know what to practice solo, as I wasn't working for anything, my coach suggested I do five minutes of edge work, five minutes of skills, and then five minutes of stamina work, and repeat as long as I wanted. Works for me.... but the low-level Skating Moves in the UK actually incorporate all these things, so now I'm playing with these and having fun!

[sk8lady]

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When I didn't know what to practice solo, as I wasn't working for anything, my coach suggested I do five minutes of edge work, five minutes of skills, and then five minutes of stamina work, and repeat as long as I wanted. Works for me.... but the low-level Skating Moves in the UK actually incorporate all these things, so now I'm playing with these and having fun!

This is great advice.

With the first two coaches I had, I didn't work on anything real specific because I didn't plan to test or compete. Later I decided I wanted to do those things. Now, although I have jumps through a loop (:D) and am working on a layback, I'm having to spend a HUGE amount of time working back through my forward inside 3s and back edges on a line because I did just enough work to get me past the first couple of moves tests, without mastering them. I spent an hour lesson yesterday just going over these things so that I can keep working on Silver moves.

At the risk of sounding like someone's mother, better to work on them a little bit every day and master them early on than have to go back and spend ages on them later on when it's positively embarrassing to have to!!!

[Pgh.Coach]

I do warm up with stroking, at least a little bit, and I love the suggestion about "mindful" practice rather than just going through the motions.

Perhaps you can try "practicing" your stroking as your warm-up, maybe taking a lap or two around the rink and focusing on extension, power, posture, turn out, etc. during this mini practice warm-up. Tell yourself that on the first lap, for instance, you're only going to focus on power and extension...and just focus on that. On the second lap, you can try adding a focus on posture while continuing the improvements you made to your power and extensions. That may trick your mind into practicing your stroking and crossovers without making it feel like you're spending endless amounts of time on the basics (although strong fundamentals are key for skating progression).

[doubletoe]

Yes, the "mindful" thing is key. You can't really call it "practicing" unless it is mindful. In other words, you are never "just" stroking; you are working on getting deeper edges, correct pattern on the ice, proper transition between edges, more power, less scraping, etc. etc. Personally, I find this sport too expensive to do just for fun, so I skate for "satisfaction." That satisfaction comes whenever I see improvement, and improvement only comes from mindful practice, so . . . well, you get the idea! ;)

[techskater]

Perhaps you want your coach to teach you the first Moves in the Field test so that you have something to focus on beyond "just stroking" while you are stroking?

[Sessy]

I think it's just a fase. Don't forget that working on a waltz jump for example will, when you finally get it, drastically improve your back outside edge and your forward outside edge. In my case, it were the jumps that made my 3-turns, cuz I hated practising them. To gain consistency on the jump, you'll need consistency on the edges and 3-turns. Besides sometimes, grasping for an element outside of your reach can really improve what you were working on originally - one of the coaches of my club has applied this idea to me several times with success when I was really stuck on something.

As for speed, don't worry about it. You can't have speed without technique and maybe for now, it's good just to let it sink in, then you'll notice at some point that you're not satisfied with your speed and you'll start working on it again. For now, focus on technique. WHEN you stroke a little bit (even if it's just to get warmed up or to get to the other side of the rink) you should focus on bending your knees, extending your free leg and pushing off sideways, not with your picks. It'll become second nature to do it correctly after a while and then speed will come by itself.

Eventually, you'll notice you are no longer satisfied with your speed, stroking etc. Then you'll start working on it. For now, skate what you'd like to.

The things you feel you really should practice but you never really want to practice, are best practised as a warm-up and cooling down, at least for me.

[jazzpants]

Besides the business of getting better if your basics are solid, I can tell 'ya that any good coach would NOT let their student by with their stroking and crossovers looking bad. There's ALWAYS something to learn when it comes to crossovers and stroking, trust me on this!!! (AAMOF, my secondary coach made me stroke around the rink twice last Wed. and her comments "stroking good! Crossovers, NOT so good!!!" :frus: Ain't gonna happen on her clock!!! :twisted: :P :lol: 8O )

Speaking of which, I better do some very mindful practice on my crossovers! If I'm very lucky, I may have a lesson with Moves Guru very soon in my future. And if not, at least my wonderful NYC coach, who will always ask me to do stroking and then crossovers! Definitely do NOT want to disappoint him!!! 8O

(If nothing else, just do 5-10 minutes of mindful practice a day on those items!!! It's a small amount of time to save yourself from the hassles of having your coach work on those things rather than what you REALLY want to work on. :twisted: )

[doubletoe]

Perhaps you want your coach to teach you the first Moves in the Field test so that you have something to focus on beyond "just stroking" while you are stroking?

That's an excellent idea.

[Sk8Dreamer]

I think it's just a fase. Don't forget that working on a waltz jump for example will, when you finally get it, drastically improve your back outside edge and your forward outside edge. In my case, it were the jumps that made my 3-turns, cuz I hated practising them. To gain consistency on the jump, you'll need consistency on the edges and 3-turns. Besides sometimes, grasping for an element outside of your reach can really improve what you were working on originally - one of the coaches of my club has applied this idea to me several times with success when I was really stuck on something.

As for speed, don't worry about it. You can't have speed without technique and maybe for now, it's good just to let it sink in, then you'll notice at some point that you're not satisfied with your speed and you'll start working on it again. For now, focus on technique. WHEN you stroke a little bit (even if it's just to get warmed up or to get to the other side of the rink) you should focus on bending your knees, extending your free leg and pushing off sideways, not with your picks. It'll become second nature to do it correctly after a while and then speed will come by itself.

Eventually, you'll notice you are no longer satisfied with your speed, stroking etc. Then you'll start working on it. For now, skate what you'd like to.

The things you feel you really should practice but you never really want to practice, are best practised as a warm-up and cooling down, at least for me.

This is helpful and reassuring: thanks.

Perhaps you want your coach to teach you the first Moves in the Field test so that you have something to focus on beyond "just stroking" while you are stroking?

That's an interesting idea. I will look into it. Thank you.

And to many of the other responders: Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly in the first place. I know damn well that practice is the only way to improve, and that advanced skills are built on basic skills. I DO want to improve--no question there--and I'm not looking to find some easy way out, but as I said, I am trying to figure out how to balance things so that skating stays fun. There have been times when the "work" becomes so frustrating that I get very demoralized--I am trying to avoid that in the future. Skating is an escape for me--exercise, enjoyment, the thrill of being able to do something with my body that I never before thought I could do. I don't want to lose that because I'm frustrated or depressed about my lack of progress. That's all. I don't think that should be viewed as a terrible thing, or as a suggestion that I don't have the right attitude.