British Adult Championships

[Waltzer]

Hi everyone, this is my first post!

I am interested in your opinions on the British Adult Championship details that have just been released, in particular the cost of entry fees and the fact that there is no free dance at bronze level for couples (have to do an original dance).

The standards seem to be all over the place - 14-step is bronze for couples but silver for solo, paso doble is silver for couples, gold for solo. Looks like we won't be doing it, which is really disappointing. :cry: I'd love to know what others think.

[Mrs Redboots]

Well, we can't do the European Waltz and 14-step, either. So we won't be there, unless Husband decides to compete in Free.

I think they'll regret setting the couples' dance so high - when they choose lower level dances they get six or seven couples at Bronze, but I don't see that happening now. Certainly none of the couples we regularly compete against will be able for it. Bronze has traditionally been Level 4 and under, and I don't know many L4 and under adult couples who can do a decent European Waltz (and although I can get round a 14-step, it isn't pretty).

They have requested an OD in the past - we did a Tango OD a few years ago, and great fun it was, too!

[frbskate63]

The trouble is, I think the OD is there because they're trying to match Oberstdorf, which doesn't have a bronze free dance. But then they've just copied this year's elite OD requirements, so the bronze OD has tougher requirements than the gold free dance!

But if they're going to match Oberstdorf, they ought to do it properly, and include a gold free skate category - there are lots of skaters that can do more than an axel, but don't fancy the possibility of competing with someone who has triples. (OK, that's a fairly remote possibility in the UK - but the gap between silver and masters is still huge.)

And for that sort of money, I'd expect on-the-day practice ice, full length warm-ups, full IJS scoring, and a champagne draw party!

[fsk8r]

Is it always THAT expensive for the British? I've never done it before (first season competiting) and was thinking that it might be fun for a weekend away in Sheffield, but the prices make it really expensive to compete.

And why is the bronze solo dance just the level 2 dances? The competitions I've seen (not that I've done one yet) all have a mix of say a level 1 or 2 dance with a level 3 or 4. Not that I'm complaining, I've passed level 2 so could probably have them jazzed up for competition.

[Mrs Redboots]

They are basically trying to get rid of us, I think. I can think of at least five couples who would be able to compete if they gave us a pre-Bronze category with level 4 dances and a very basic OD or Free Dance, none of whom are even going to bother to think of competing as it is. I include us!

I wouldn't mind the fact that they've tried to make it in line with the ISU requirements if it weren't for the disparity with the solo dances.

Oh well, there are other competitions!

[Waltzer]

I agree they're trying to get rid of us - there's no mention on the home page of the nisa website that the details are even out.

I don't know much about free skating but last year was the first time it became ridiculously expensive when they made the compulsory and free dance sections separate. It will be interesting to see how much it will cost the couples to enter the main championships in January. I do know the entry free for the solo championships in July was £50, for which you got to do a compulsory dance, original dance and free dance. How nisa can justify charging £162 for 2 compulsories and a free dance is beyond me. I see for the bronze free skating you'll be paying nearly £1 a second! Do nisa think they can charge adults whatever they like and we'll pay it? I did write and complain last year but never got a response.

[airyfairy76]

I'm outraged! How much!!!!!

This is meant to be my first competition and I was really excited - at that cost, I am going to have to relook at my budget and see if I can actually afford it.

How can they justify more than doubling the cost since last year?! :cry:

[fsk8r]

I've emailed them about the price rise, but as people say, I'm not expecting a response. But I just wish my hourly rate was like the £3000 they're charging for the ice time. I was hoping to do my free programme and solo dance, but at that price, I'm not going given that there's fuel and accommodation as well (plus time off work to get there!).

It's hardly a championship/competition as it will be won by the person who can afford the entry fee.

I hope others complain about it to NISA, because if we all start complaining we might get a response given that they reorganised the test fees after people pointed out that the prices weren't fair in their revised system.

[BatikatII]

Well I'm another one who looked at the prices this year and thought well that's it. NISA have decided to get rid of the adults by simply pricing them out of existence.:x

When the entry fee for dance included the compulsories plus an OD or free dance (and was about £30 or less) then it seemed reasonable. The next year I did a free programme as well. So 3 events for £60 or less.

Last year (well 2007 when it was last held) I only did the Free dance and my Free programme as it was just too much money to pay seperately for doing compulsories too.

This year I don't think I'll bother at all. I could only afford to do one out of the three events I'd like to do and £81 for a minute and a half plus warm up is really just extortionate.

For couples dance at least there are two people to share the cost but it's still a ridiculous price.

Many of the new young adult skaters are at college or still paying back student loans and to charge such a price is completely unrealistic. To do the 3 events I'd have liked to do, I'd have to fork out over £240.00 8O
before even looking at travel and accomodation costs.

Although I don't do couples dance as I don't have a partner, it does seem that there hasn't been much thought or acknowledgement of the realities of adult skating or any look at the standards of those who have entered in the past when they have chosen the dances this year. I quite understand that it is a good thing to be broadly in line with the ISU but while that may be fine for the higher level couples it would seem that they have decided to discourage lower levels from entering this year.

Presumably those who might have competed silver last year may move down to bronze this year and gold down to silver leaving even fewer couples in the top group and denying many adult dancers the chance to compete at all.
That seems a sad state of affairs just as adult skating really seems to be taking off worldwide.

I might look at doing one of the internationals instead as with cheap flights it may not cost much more than a weekend in Sheffield would. Certainly if I did decide to enter BAC this year which I'd like to since I've entered every year since it started, I could only afford to do one class. However the high fees are a definite factor that are making me think this is just not worthwhile. That's twice what an opens costs and what exactly do we get for our money?

Those adults who were initially delighted that NISA acknowledged their contribution to British skating with a championship and have supported this for many years are now finding themselves either priced out, or excluded by way of standards being set too high at the lower levels. There is no comparison between solo dance bronze which has level 1 & 2 dances (surely there could have been a level 3 or 4 dance in this!) and couples dance bronze which has dances level 5 or above (which should really have had dances at level 4 or below).

I would be interested to know just what we would get for our £81 a class as we seem to have got less and less over the years.

[Waltzer]

Prices have now been amended. They are £42 for singles and £68 for couples. Still not cheap, though better, especially for solo skaters. I'm not quite sure why it is so much dearer for a couple - I accept the cost is split between two but we still only use the same amount of ice time, the only extra expense is an extra medal!

I still have a problem with the dances selected. I've no idea if we should be silver or bronze. If bronze is supposed to be level 4 and under, then we're definitely silver, but there's no way we could do a paso doble. Last year silver was 14-step and foxtrot.

[Mrs Redboots]

What they have tried to do is to make the categories more in line with the ISU competition at Oberstdorf. Which is absolutely fair enough and I have no quarrel with that. Except that they have made the requirements for the Bronze Original Dance harder than for the Gold Free!

But they could have put in a pre-Bronze category - there are at least five couples, possibly more, who would be competitive with a couple of L4 and under compulsory dances and a simple Original or Free dance, and who will struggle enormously at Bronze, probably to the point of not entering - as, indeed, we shall not be able to.

[Mrs Redboots]

Prices have now been amended. They are £42 for singles and £68 for couples.

Where do you see that? My form, dated 16 August, still says £81 per singles or couples event.

[WhiteBoots30]

I was really looking forward to this competition - especially as it is back at Sheffield (= a weekend away!) but was so angry when I saw the requirements and cost yesterday.

I was hoping to do free skating and solo dance at silver level (as I did last year), but the silver level solo dance includes the rocker foxtrot. How can they have level 1 / 2 dances for bronze and then jump to level 8 for silver! I am level 3 CD but vaguely know all the dances up to level 6. I don't really want to compete at bronze as I'd feel I was taking a step backwards, yet can't see how I can learn the rocker foxtrot in time (if at all!)

As for the cost - my daughter competed in the solo dance championships in July and that cost £50 for a CD, OD and FD (and an event that at least felt like more than an opens unlike the last 2 adult championships).

[fsk8r]

Where do you see that? My form, dated 16 August, still says £81 per singles or couples event.

There's an announcement on the website saying the prices are wrong but I can't find the new form.
Obviously a few emails from disgruntled adults had some effect (they've booked the ice already and if we all don't show up it'll be a big waste of money!). But I agree that they should add a lower prebronze couples dance category, otherwise there's no encouragement for learning dance other than solo. They've got enough low level categories for the rest of us.

[Waltzer]

Click on the "figure skating" box, then "rules and regulations", then "singles and pairs skating rules", then "entry form" under British Adult Championships 2009.

We 99% sure we're not doing it, but if we did I'm very unsure whether we would be silver or bronze. We're about level 5/6. If you go by the compulsory dances we'd be bronze in couples but silver in solo. I can't understand why there's such a different between them.

[smelltheice]

I know this is naive but perhaps is the reason for the price drop was the effect of people writing in which threatened the event then perhaps if enough people can write in to NISA then they still have time to amend the schedule to cover a greater range of the UK adult skating population. Whatever reasons they have for the current set up, I'm sure that if they think they will get more entries and thereby more money for the event (which lets face, they aren't going to turn down!!), I'm pretty sure they will quite happily make some changes to boost the entry figures.

I know there has been a change of the staff line up at NISA in recent months so perhaps the adult champs organisation has been passed through several pairs of hands and some confusion has occurred.

[Mrs Redboots]

I think people had asked if the requirements could be more in line with the ISU competition in Oberstdorf, which is what they have tried to do - successfully, so far as Silver and Gold are concerned, and so far as the compulsories at Bronze are, too.

But they shouldn't have the disparity between Bronze couples and solos; they should amend the Bronze OD requirements to something that Bronze skaters will be able to do and, arguably, they should put in a pre-Bronze category for the (at least) five or six couples who would be very competitive at pre-Bronze but probably look rather silly competing Bronze. A (for instance) Swing Dance and Riverside Rhumba (or even a Willow or 14-step if they want to really challenge us) and a simple OD or Free Dance would do very nicely.

[fsk8r]

I think people had asked if the requirements could be more in line with the ISU competition in Oberstdorf, which is what they have tried to do - successfully, so far as Silver and Gold are concerned, and so far as the compulsories at Bronze are, too.

But they shouldn't have the disparity between Bronze couples and solos; they should amend the Bronze OD requirements to something that Bronze skaters will be able to do and, arguably, they should put in a pre-Bronze category for the (at least) five or six couples who would be very competitive at pre-Bronze but probably look rather silly competing Bronze. A (for instance) Swing Dance and Riverside Rhumba (or even a Willow or 14-step if they want to really challenge us) and a simple OD or Free Dance would do very nicely.

Has anyone asked them for a prebronze couple dance category or at least had an explanation from NISA as to why solo dance is easier than couples?

[Mrs Redboots]

Has anyone asked them for a prebronze couple dance category or at least had an explanation from NISA as to why solo dance is easier than couples?
I've e-mailed them but have had neither acknowledgement nor return receipt. Maybe I'll ask again when I next e-mail them to tell them we'll be competing in Dunkerque (you did know you had to tell them if you're planning to compete abroad, didn't you? Strictly speaking it's "ask", but at our level, firmly, it's "tell").

[Waltzer]

I've phoned as well - there isn't really anyone there this week as they are all at the IJS at Sheffield.

[fsk8r]

I've e-mailed them but have had neither acknowledgement nor return receipt. Maybe I'll ask again when I next e-mail them to tell them we'll be competing in Dunkerque (you did know you had to tell them if you're planning to compete abroad, didn't you? Strictly speaking it's "ask", but at our level, firmly, it's "tell").

I thought I'd read something here about telling them last year. Hadn't realised they were that picky about it. I've still to convince the coach that she wants to allow me to go to Dunkerque (although I didn't get a no when I mentioned it, more of a it's my birthday that weekend...) and then there's the little matter of a dissected programme.

They can't ALL be at the IJS. They should leave someone behind to answer the phones, some of us have skating crises whilst these competitions are going on. Fingers crossed we hear from them about it sometime soon, although given that it took them 2 months to get back to me on my last query, I'm not holding my breath.

[Waltzer]

There's a bit on the Nisa website about the BAC following the board meeting this week - under Board Communication 10 - though not a lot and nothing particularly helpful and nothing about the price. Has anyone had a reply to any emails they've sent to Nisa - we've all had nothing at all.

[Mrs Redboots]

The Board will also look at the British Adult Opens structure to ensure that open events tie in with the test structures and form a progressive pathway to the Championships.

Er, which British Adult Opens would those be, do you suppose? Even Bracknell has had to amalgamate with the regular Opens, and I don't think there are any others. In 2009, I expect to possibly do Bracknell, and then maybe the Bristol Open Dance if they hold it. Other than that, there are getting to be so few competitions in this country that I am seriously wondering what I'm going to be working on for most of next year.

[fsk8r]

Er, which British Adult Opens would those be, do you suppose? Even Bracknell has had to amalgamate with the regular Opens, and I don't think there are any others. In 2009, I expect to possibly do Bracknell, and then maybe the Bristol Open Dance if they hold it. Other than that, there are getting to be so few competitions in this country that I am seriously wondering what I'm going to be working on for most of next year.

I wonder if they'll also address the low publicity given to the adult opens? I only found out about Bristol because someone told me about it at Guildford and then I spent a rather inordinate amount of time searching the internet for the details (and then decided not to compete).
Finding any sort of date from the NISA website is near on impossible (I think I searched the entire site to get the dates of the British Synchro Championships, and they never list our test dates).

[Ice Dancer]

There is also a Milton Keynes adult open next May according to the NISA calendar, although no further details as yet. However this is the same calendar that says Bracknell is in September despite the fact the Bracknell site says it is in April!!!!

[fsk8r]

There is also a Milton Keynes adult open next May according to the NISA calendar, although no further details as yet. However this is the same calendar that says Bracknell is in September despite the fact the Bracknell site says it is in April!!!!

I have a feeling that Bracknell might know what they're doing better than NISA, but it doesn't exactly inspire you with confidence to find all these adult opens they're talking about.

Has MK held an adult competition before as I've not heard of it before and it's not that far away, so I could go to it next year...

[hanca]

I am getting a bit confused about what is here in the UK for adults. Let me summarise it and if something is not correct, please correct me:

British adult championships is 28.2.-1.3.
Bracknell Adult Open - in April OR September
Milton Keynes Open - in May
Guildford Open - in July
Bristol Open - in September

Is that correct? Have I forgoten anything? I don't do dance so I am sure I missed all the dancing opens. (I never realised that there is so many competition for adults here).

[Ice Dancer]

I have a feeling that Bracknell might know what they're doing better than NISA, but it doesn't exactly inspire you with confidence to find all these adult opens they're talking about.

Has MK held an adult competition before as I've not heard of it before and it's not that far away, so I could go to it next year...


Not that I know of. I didn't compete this year but I kept an eye on what competitions were when to suss out annual leave for next year (awful isn't it!). Then I noticed it when I downloaded the 2009 opens calendar from the site.

I've emailed the Milton Keynes figure skating club to see if they can give me some more information as I'm looking to do it. If I get a reply I'll let you all know.

[BatikatII]

At present Bracknell Adult opens is planned to be tacked on to the end of the ordinary opens in April. It will likely only be one day instead of two so a number of events will have to be cut.

[Mrs Redboots]

Bristol Open - in September

Is that correct? Have I forgoten anything? I don't do dance so I am sure I missed all the dancing opens. (I never realised that there is so many competition for adults here).

Bristol is Open Dance - all age groups together. Which is good, as no pressure on the adults to win anything, but nice if you do. We didn't do Bristol this year, but may well do it in 2009, if they have it.

But apart from the British Adult Championships, and a possible Adult Open at Milton Keynes (please, if anybody does hear more details about it - 2loop2loop, is this one of yours? - let us know), there doesn't seem to be any dedicated adult competitions in this country any more; some competitions now have adult classes tacked on the end, as Bracknell and Guildford but that is all.

At least there are still adult competitions abroad!

[hanca]

Bristol is Open Dance - all age groups together. Which is good, as no pressure on the adults to win anything, but nice if you do. We didn't do Bristol this year, but may well do it in 2009, if they have it.


As far as I know, Bristol had adult free style competition, not only dance. I was on 7.9.08 this year. I haven't been there, but have seen the poster. (I can send it to you if you want to). Three levels, elementary, intermediate and masters and three age groups in each. And also exhibition program competition. The minimum age was 21 years.

[Mrs Redboots]

As far as I know, Bristol had adult free style competition, not only dance. I was on 7.9.08 this year. I haven't been there, but have seen the poster. (I can send it to you if you want to). Three levels, elementary, intermediate and masters and three age groups in each. And also exhibition program competition. The minimum age was 21 years.
Oh yes, so they did - that was new this year and didn't register with me as we didn't go! Previous years, it's just been open dance; this year was open dance and adult free. Don't know what, if anything, they will do next year!

[Ice Dancer]

Update on Milton Keynes, sadly the one being advertised as an adult competition isn't one. However they are in talks with NISA to organise an adult opens, so there may be one, but as yet nothing has been arranged.