Klingbeils - custom or stock?

[TOs8mum]

Hello,

My child is about to go for her first pair of Klings, and I am not sure of whether or not to order custom of stock?

Has anyone had experience with both sides?

To my knowledge, her feet are not weirdly shaped and she has been skating in Jacksons, Free's. The boot however is virtually broken down now (the fitter has said max 3 months left). So I won't even be able to pass it on down to my Canskater or in good conscious put it on the skate exchange.

She is working on her first 4 doubles up to double filip, weighs 65 lbs.

There are a bunch of other girls her age at our club (and one or two boys) that skate in custom, but I really wonder if it is worth it.

Feedback please?

[dbny]

I think customs are worth it because every little glitch will be taken care of. OTOH, why not stick with Jacksons since they fit her well and she doesn't have mutant feet? I don't see the point in custom anything unless it's necessary.

[Petlover]

I have had my custom Klingbeils for 9 and one half years, and they are still in very good shape, lots of support, and will definitely last at least a couple more years. Of course, I'm in my 50s so the only way I grow is sideways :).

[sk8tmum]

We got custom klings. With the custom:

a) We got to pick our features, which is great; stock Klings are very basic, although really good skates. Also, we got to customize the strength for what the coach wanted and for DS's specific height, weight and jump style.

b) In stock you can get standard lengths, say, 6, 6-1/2 etc. Now, if your kid is already at, say 6-1/4, then, you only get a 1/4 size growth. If you get custom, you can order 6-3/4 and get that 1/2 size for growth (i.e. they last longer!). Which is nice ...

c) Klings are not heat molded. The kids who flipped from Jacksons, that are heat molded,to stock Klings had a longer transition period than the ones that went custom, because the custom ones fit the feet neatly and needed the minimum of punching, etc.

d) We didn't know that DS's feet were oddly shaped until the fitter looked at them and showed us the odd shape, and explained why the custom would work better for him. And yes, this guy is ethical ... so it wasn't an upsell, it was just an excellent fitter who knows his business. It did help explain why we've had problems in the past with shoes and skates, though !

Now, from a different perspective: There are a lot of stock Klings on our rink. Most of the skaters really like them. There are customs that are custom ONLY because of the prestige and status of owning CUSTOM SKATES. Then, there are the customs like my kid's that are legitimately necessary.

Why the change to Klings, btw? Jackson has a skate that is a step up from the Freestyle, the Competitors, which would work well, because she doesn't weigh much ... but, it's all up to what your coach is recommending, of course.

[daisies]

I have already posted on this forum my horrid experience with Klingbeil (customs), so I will spare you the details, but suffice it to say, I would steer clear.

Still, my bad experience taught me a valuable -- and expensive -- lesson: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If your child hasn't had any problems with Jacksons, stick with Jacksons. If your child doesn't have weird feet, stick with stock boots. No need to switch, no need to spend the extra money. It's a risk not worth taking, IMHO.

[Isk8NYC]

I've had custom Klingbeils for years (third pair) with no problems. They're usually the "next step" after the skaters start destroying their stock boots like Jacksons.

Try having her feet measured - if they "match up" to the stock boot sizing, you could go with those and save a little money.

Daisies makes a good point: if she likes a given brand, try that brand's upper-level stock or custom models instead of switching to a different brand entirely.

[Query]

Talk first to your coach. He/she probably teaches a style of movement that works well with his or her type of skate and blade combination, and probably knows who the best fitters are.

Lots of us who were custom fit and given final adjustments by non-factory fitters had problems with custom KB's. That is also true for other brands.

If you happen to live within a day's driving distance to and from the Klingbeil Factory in NYC, it is well worth it. Some people travel (pilgrimage?) further. The same is true of the other brands that are willing to factory fit and adjust.

But I agree with other posters - if you can find a store that has stock boots that fit your child pretty well, go with them, then have whatever minor adjustments are required made by the best fitter you can find. You can make adjustments yourself, but you will save yourself a lot of time and trouble if you find someone who knows what they are doing.

It will be a little easier and maybe cheaper if the fitter works in the store that sold the saktes.

If you decide stock won't fit, personally I would make sure the fitter makes a cast in addition to taking measurements.

Don't let the fitter put the skater's feet in impressible foam or in fitting casts while standing on two feet - that's one of the reasons why so many people pronate (lean towards the inside edge) and have pain skating. Figure skaters mostly skate balanced on one foot, so I would claim that is the way they should be measured. If the skater has pronation or supination problems, they have arches that collapse too much, etc., it is possible they shouldn't be fit standing at all, but should be fit sitting down, with the fitter holding the feet and legs in proper alignment. If you know you are going to a podiatrist for an orthotic afterwards, the fit should allow space for it. (If the fitter and maker know what they are doing, a well fit boot is the ultimate orthotic.)

I now think I want a slighly loose fit, to make space for my own adjustments using tape and moleskin and customized insoles. It only takes a few minutes once you get used to it, whereas stretching the boot at pain and pressure points takes a lot more. That probably doesn't apply if you aren't making your own adjustments, but loose fits may make sense for growing children, provided you or the fitter make the adjustments to make the fit tight at the start. (The idea of buying a loose initial fit is complete heresy, and most people won't agree with me.)

It is a good idea to make sure the blades you get are easily sharpened by your sharpener. Some sharpeners use equipment that has trouble with some types of blades, e.g., he/she may need to remove the runners to sharpen Ultima Matrix blades.

There are lots of disagreements on all these issues. You can't even get people to agree on whether the fit should be tight above the ankle, or whether it should allow room there to move. Many also want a fit that holds the ankle more rigid for Freestyle than for Dance skating. And so on.

[Mrs Redboots]

If she's still growing, and has normal feet, I wouldn't bother - why spend more money than you must? Depending on the age and level of your skater, you could even go for second-hand boots. When children are growing fast, they often outgrow their skates long before they are broken down.

It might be worth discussing this with your coach (the coaches usually know who's outgrowing their boots, quite apart from anything else - like they know who's outgrown their competition or test dress and wants to sell it on), as they will also know where to go in your area for good-quality boots, and what sort of level boot and blade you should be considering for your skater.

[sk8er1964]

I have had two pairs of stock Klingbeils, and haven't had fitting problems with either pair. Well, one problem, but that wasn't the boot's fault - my arches fell after I purchased the boots. Custom insoles have helped alot, but I will probably go with custom boots next time. I always had such easy to fit feet before this, too - dratted genetics. :frus:

My current pair, though, were super lites that I wanted to try - unfortunately they weren't suitable for my size and skating style. I had a lot of ankle turning problems. My fitter sent them back, and Klingbeil added support and restuffed them - had them back within a week - at no cost to me except for shipping. So I guess you could say I have semi-custom boots now. :lol:

[dbny]

Don't let the fitter put the skater's feet in impressible foam or in fitting casts while standing on two feet - that's one of the reasons why so many people pronate (lean towards the inside edge) and have pain skating. Figure skaters mostly skate balanced on one foot, so I would claim that is the way they should be measured. If the skater has pronation or supination problems, they have arches that collapse too much, etc., it is possible they shouldn't be fit standing at all, but should be fit sitting down, with the fitter holding the feet and legs in proper alignment.

You can pronate on one foot just as badly as on two, and possibly worse. Balanced on one foot, yes, but also on edge. Do you claim we should be fitted while on edge? How would you do that? Podiatrists do actually hold one's foot in alignment while making a mold for orthotics. When I got my current pair of custom Klingbeils, I consciously resisted pronation while the molds were being made. Don't have a clue if it helped, but my boots are fine and I don't pronate on the ice.

[Query]

You can pronate on one foot just as badly as on two, and possibly worse.</QUOTE>

I said ONE of the reasons, not the only one. Both feet are normally forced onto inside edges (pronation) when you stand on both feet. In effect, a boot fit this way provides little vertical support underneath the inside edge half of the foot, and provides no sideways support on that side either - making it easy to pronate. A boot fit that way would provide vertical and sideways support on the other side, thus forcing you into that same pronated position.

Balanced on one foot, yes, but also on edge. Do you claim we should be fitted while on edge?

As I see it, any fit is a compromise among the different uses you are expected to give it. FIgure skaters use both edges, so we wouldn't want it to fit best on just one. Likewise for skating forwards/backwards. Like I thought I had mine perfectly set up. Then I took a class where the coach made us skate backwards with the feet continuously on the ice, shifting my weight backwards onto my heels, and it started hurting again.

Unless you are a coach. Many coaches spend most of their time on two feet, so many fitters fit them standing on two feet.

> How would you do that? Podiatrists do actually hold one's foot in alignment while making a mold for orthotics. When I got my current pair of custom Klingbeils, I consciously resisted pronation while the molds were being made. Don't have a clue if it helped, but my boots are fine and I don't pronate on the ice.

When I got my current pair of custom Klingbeils, I consciously resisted pronation while the molds were being made. Don't have a clue if it helped, but my boots are fine and I don't pronate on the ice.

Which is what I was saying. A well fit boot is an orthotic, and no other is needed. You and/or your fitter had the knowledge to do it right. I'm told not all people have strong enough muscles to resist pronation, which may mean you need the fitter's help, like your podiatrist does.

Apparently pronation is often accompanied by arches that collapse too much, doing harm and creating pain. That too might need to be resisted or prevented, possibly by fitting with reduced weight, such as in a sitting position.

It's asking a lot of fitters to know what to do for the more unusual conditions. The price would go up if they all had to be podiatrists!