Hit head on ice.....

[herniated]

Hi everyone. Just looking for some sympathy/empathy.:lol: Today started out good. Coach was impressed with my new footwork. He said he's never seen me move my feet so fast! OK now for the crappy part. He had me work on my ever problematic camel spin. I must have gone too far back on my outside edge on the entry and body slammed myself into the ice hitting the right side of my head on the ice!!8O

Now I feel like I fell off a truck. Not only does my head hurt where I hit it but my hairline hurts. As well as my wrists(both), neck, and upper back and weirdly my ear on the same side that I hit my head. I mean the inner ear, I didn't hit my ear itself. And again, weirdly the whole right side of my face. Nose, cheek bones, ect.

I don't have a concussion, never lost consciousness, no blurred vision or confusion. Just the above. Bleah!!

Let the sympathy pour in please!;)

[miraclegro]

Sounds like you may have a mild concussion, and i'd go get some x-rays because it sounds pretty rough. Maybe a chiropractor?

Take care, and take it easy! MANY sympathies! Skating is hard work!

[Skittl1321]

ooh! I'm so sorry, that sounds awful!

[doubletoe]

OMG, I'm trying to picture that but can't quite figure out that fall. Do you spin CW or CCW? But you certainly have my sympathy! Sounds like you needed a big hug!
A year or two ago, I flipped myself over and fell on my head on the entrance to a flying camel during the 6-minute warm-up for a competition. As you might imagine, I was a little shaken and didn't skate my program very well. :( I think the lesson here is that with camels and flying camels, trying too hard can be dangerous!

[herniated]

Hi doubletoe... I jump and spin CW. It happened when I stepped in on my right foot. But I don't think I rode the edge long enough and my coach wanted me to try to keep my left arm in front on the entrance. I usually swing it back, the left arm that is. Well, I think the left arm was too far in front of me along with the short entrance and I maybe fell 'off' the edge onto my right side.

And to miraclegro.. I have an appointment Wed with one my ART people. She a physical therapist. The chiropractor guy is away this week. And I called my primary Dr's office. They don't think I have a concussion but.. it was over the phone..how can they tell? They did say to come in if I feel worse. I've had a mlld concussion years ago and I had some uneven pupil dilation. None of that this time.

[LilJen]

Yeeeeowch!!! I hit my forehead hard once, years ago, just slowly doing an inside 3-turn. Had a HUGE goose egg there---it was kind of creepy. Took me a while to get up the courage to do an inside 3 again!

[jskater49]

Ooh I've had some bad head falls so you have my sympathy.

Not too many months ago I had a concussion and you'd know it right away or a few hours later anyway- I had a bad headache, felt loopy, very drowsy and they can't tell with an xray - they made me get a CT scan!

Two days before my test I fell backward and hit my head and I was so upset I was going to go through the whole thing again but it wasn't my head so much as my neck because I did a whiplash thing and my stomach muscles felt like I"d tried to do 100 situps for days.

j

[herniated]

Yeah, I'm wondering if maybe I had a concussion because now I feel much more 'clear' in the head. The aches are setting in but I'm not fuzzy anymore. NOT that my vision was fuzzy just a fuzzy feeling. 8O

[ibreakhearts66]

Yuck I hate hitting my head on the ice. I've only done it a few times, but it's never fun. Don't forget that your cheekbone is sore! After I hit my head/face the most recent time, I kept going to rest the side of my head in my hand, forgetting my cheekbone was all bruised. Ouch!

[TiggerTooSkates]

OUCH!!! 8O (Rubs own head in sympathy)

I agree - you do not sound as though you have a concussion. You're not describing any of the symptoms (not all people lose consciousness, but you're not telling anything else that would make me think concussion - like the stuff jskater described). But I would keep an eye on yourself, if you'll pardon the vernacular, and I do recommend going to the doctor if you feel any worse or notice ANY changes.

And take care of yourself - getting whacked in the head:frus:, concussion or not, is a heck of a thing to have happen to you.

[Isk8NYC]

OUCH! I've whacked my back of head on the ice twice really badly.

Ice helps keep the swelling down and handle some of the whiplash (if you got a bit of that.)

Pain / inflammation medicine (like Advil) taken regularly for 48 hours. Don't miss a dose - it keeps the swelling in check.

Neck/Shoulder Massage a day or so later really helps.

Get well soon.

[Isk8NYC]

I know there are a number of medical staffers on this board.

Would a skater always present concussion symptoms if they cracked their skull during a fall?


ETA: I'm not suggesting that's why you hurt, I'm just asking for future reference.

[Gina10179202]

Oww. I've had a lot of head falls, including a flying camel fall similar to one described up there and my personal favourite, falling forwards very fast out of a double loop, so fast that I can't do anything to prevent my head from face planting down. Oh and of course, stabbing my head and producing lots of blood because there was a Christmas decoration in my usual off ice spot...

I hope you feel better.

[jazzpants]

You have my sympathy too! I had something like that but it was on my jaw. No concussion, but my cheek was swollen up pretty badly. I think I was pretty banged up.... had to skip work for the day and put on HEAVY AMOUNTS of makeup the next day so no one thinks that my husband was beating up me. :roll: :P

Lots of rest and ice. The ART therapy is good, as is a massage therapy session with a competant CMT.

Feel better soon!!!

(I'm admitting now that I'm getting a bit nervous about that camel spin thing and I spin in your direction too!!! 8O )

[RachelSk8er]

Ouch. I feel for you. Last year I was doing the quickstep and got my L blade caught in my R pants leg on the choctaw and flew up and landed on my head and then my tailbone. I guess it made some loud, awful thud sound but I was pretty much out of it so I had no clue. I spent about 3 days in bed at my parents' house mostly sleeping (we have a lot of medical professionals in my family so I was pretty closely monitored), and 4 days after the fall, I started having very painful muscle spasms in my neck and back and I couldn't turn my head. And I was groggy/fuzzy for a good 2 weeks. I was back on the ice after a week but didn't really do much other than glide around for a week, and was afraid to practice in pants for about the next 4 months. :laugh:

Def see a doctor and a chiropractor or a physician who specializes in sports medicine and sports-related injuries. Especially if it might be a concussion, you REALLY need to take it easy for a bit because the last thing you need is to hit your head again. For other injuries, see if your hospital's sports medicine department has a D.O. on staff--I usually see one who works in a chronic pain department and specializes in sports-related injuries and chronic pain in athletes. They work wonders when it comes to back and other joint problems and if your health insurance is tricky when it comes to chiropractors (mine is), you can usually get a visit to a D.O. at the hospital who can do the same treatments covered.

Especially in these first few days, if it was, in fact, a concussion, and you feel tired and want to sleep, just make sure someone knows and is checking on you every 30-45 min.

[Mrs Redboots]

Lots of sympathy! I am sure you know all the warnings signs that mean you need to get to A&E fast - vomiting, drowsiness and so on - and as you don't have those I don't suppose you've done any serious damage.

We've all bashed our heads at least once - it goes with the territory!

[quarkiki2]

Ouch! I've done that, too. I had a very mild concussion and felt sort of the way you're describing. I never vomited or lost consciousness, but I was a little dizzy and had a pounding headache all that day.

I was so upset because it was my first competition on the synchro team and someone took my feet right out from under me while we were on practice ice. I was a good team skater and let go of the person ahead of me so I didn't pull her to the ice, too, but landed flat on my back, my head bounced twice. Saw stars, then the roof of the rink, then my entire team crouched over me. Apparently, there was a mom of another skater who was a nurse who came flying out of the stands when I didn't move after the fall -- to be clear, I was completely conscious, just totally stunned and laid there a moment to figure out if anything was broken, plus the thought occurred to me that leaving my head on the ice would help if if were starting to swell. Felt good enough to stick around through the preliminary round, though I didn't skate, then went to the ER. By then, my balance was fine and I was only suffering a humongous headache, so they didn't think a CT was necessary, but I was warned not to compete the rest of the weekend.

I was so dang excited that I really DID want to try and skate, but it was clear when I woke up the next morning with whiplash and big, black bruises on my hip, back, shoulder and head that it wasn't going to happen. I felt like I'd been hit by a car! And that wasn't even a bad concussion!

Long story (not so) short, take care of yourself and seek medical attention should you think you need it! The endorphins you feel right after an injury like that sometimes mask how hard you've really whacked yourself, so make sure you're paying attention for other symptoms!

[herniated]

Thanks guys... you are all great and give some great advice. My primary is a D.O. and I think I may see him today. First I'm taking my kid to Chuck E. Cheese to meet some friends. I really have my priorities in order huh? :lol::mrgreen: Tomorrow I have an appointment with my ART person.

But.. during the night my neck and mostly left shoulder/arm/wrist are extremely tight. (mild whiplash) And, I realized that for most of yesterday I was in a kind of fog. The 'fog' lifted early in the evening and the pain set in. Not severe pain, just the tightening. I agree w/quarkiki2 about the endorphins masking other symptoms. I too, paused on the ice to evaluate if I could get up on my own power and if my noggin were bleeding or not. It wasn't thank God. I was just so happy an ambulance didn't have to be called.

And Rachelsk8er... I n..e..v..e..r skate in pants any---more. Because of just what happened to you happened to me in the past. I love wearing jazzpants/flare bottoms but not skating--any...more.

And, jazzpants.. I don't know why but I thought your comment on wearing a lot of makeup so noone would think your husband was beating on you was hysterical. Maybe because (this is OT) once my mom fell and her whole face was black/blue from bruising and she needed stitches. She was about 70 something at the time and when ever someone asked her what happened she would look at my father and said in her most pathetic voice... he did it. Now you have to know my parents. Very old school, Dad is a WWII vet very proper. It was hilarious to watch.

Anyway, I'm planning on skating tomorrow. No jumping or spinning though but I'm sure you all think I'm crazy for contemplating it. I'll see what the dr. says later.

[RoaringSkates]

Nah, I don't think you're crazy. You're like me - you get out there again asap.

[quarkiki2]

I agree -- our team had a week off after that competition and when we came back, I was there, ready to go!

[RachelSk8er]

And Rachelsk8er... I n..e..v..e..r skate in pants any---more. Because of just what happened to you happened to me in the past. I love wearing jazzpants/flare bottoms but not skating--any...more.


I think in my case it was more of a fluke (they weren't flared loose or too long or anything). Plus my synchro blades have short heels and it *should* be harder to get them caught. It was more due to the fact that I'm a complete klutz and nothing seems to be Rachel-proof (hence why I'm sitting at work today in a white skirt with coffee spilled down the front because I tripped going up the stairs at work this morning). I've also gotten toepicks caught in over the boot tights before, got myself tangled in the skirt of a dance dress on warm-up once, and the list goes on.

[jazzpants]

I think in my case it was more of a fluke (they weren't flared loose or too long or anything). Plus my synchro blades have short heels and it *should* be harder to get them caught. It was more due to the fact that I'm a complete klutz and nothing seems to be Rachel-proof (hence why I'm sitting at work today in a white skirt with coffee spilled down the front because I tripped going up the stairs at work this morning). I've also gotten toepicks caught in over the boot tights before, got myself tangled in the skirt of a dance dress on warm-up once, and the list goes on.I've worn jazzpants for AGES and never once did I trip on the hem. Then again, MY problem seems to be NOT getting myself to close my leg tightly over the skating leg in my scratch spin... I'm sure my time to trip on that hem will come soon enough... :roll: :giveup:

Rachel: That's why I keep a change of clothing in my car... just for those occasions of spilled coffee, foods, etc...! Of course, knowing ME I will also spill something over the change of clothing too. LOL!!! :P

herniated: if you're not dizzy and the doctors don't think you have a concussion.... THEN go back on the ice!!! But knowing you and a LOT of AOSS "victims", you will go on the ice and THEN go see the doctor!!! :twisted: (Guess how I know? :oops: )

[herniated]

I hear you Rachelsk8er about the klutziness. Been there myself too. And jazz..well I tried to get and appointment with my doctor today but they were toooooooo busy. Nice. I do see the physical therapist tomorrow though. lol. After I skate.:D

I'm feeling better now. Still stiff but better.

[sk8lady]

Sounds like you "got your bell rung"--that's what we call it in hockey when we're not sure if it's a concussion or not but we know the parents probably aren't going to take the kid to the doctor!

I had it happen once when a kid clipped me under the jaw with his GIGANTIC HELMETED HEAD! At the time I was pretty sure I was okay and determined to show the other (male) hockey coaches I was okay so I got back on and finished the practice with the kids (stopping to spit blood occasionally, I was so relieved I didn't lose any teeth I didn't care!). I never did go to the doctor although the right side of my face swelled up and got black and blue--I suspect I must have had a mild concussion or I would have had the sense to go to the doctor! (I blame husband for not making me got--it MUST be his fault!).
I've been told (by USA Hockey in their gloom-and-doom head injury classes) that you can have results long after an initial concussion, so it can't hurt to go to the doctor.

[herniated]

Thanks sk8lady. Yes, I got my bell rung. Love that expression. I went to my physical therapist today and she evaluated me. She felt I could have a mild concussion and was appalled that I skated today!:lol: She has grounded me for the rest of the week and possibly Monday. Alarmist. I have to see her again Monday. I also have whiplash. Nice!!

Skating WAS challenging today. I was a bit dizzy and felt a bit vomitous(sp?). But IIIIIIIII did it!! Lunatic I am.

And I did read that symptoms of concussion can show up days later. Lovely.

[Skittl1321]

Alarmist.

I'm glad your PT "grounded" you, and hope you listen to her. A second concussion immediatly after the first can have much more serious effects. (Look up "second impact syndrome")

I've said it before on skating forums, but often feel like when concussion threads come up it should be said again. A concussion is a traumatic brain injury, albeit the most mild of TBIs. Still, a brain injury. It's not a throwaway injury. Because of how sports casters use it as a throw-away term (player taken off the field, "oh, probably JUST a concussion") people generally don't think they are really that big of a deal. In the grand scheme of things that can go wrong- they aren't a huge deal, but they are a big deal. If you are feeling dizzy and nauseated you need to be off the ice. Much better to be off the ice this week then for the rest of your life.

I really hope you are feeling better and can get back to skating soon.

[fsk8r]

The whiplash can mess up the skating on its own. With the muscles all in spasm they don't exactly do the things they're meant to and if you're back's affected that doesn't bode well.
Take it easy. A couple of days off the ice won't hurt the skating, and might actually help it as the body has actually had a chance to heal.
(But I've done the whole skate straight after a car accident thing with whiplash, no concussion thankfully but it didn't half upset the skating for a little while.).

[herniated]

Yes Skittl... I will heed her advice. And I'm seeing her again tomorrow too as well as Monday. I did a typo on my last post. Right now I'm not feeling very well. I took a little nap when I came home because I was very nauseous. That happens too after I'm treated sometimes but this time it's worse. So, no skating for me for the rest of the week. I love skating but love living more.

[RoaringSkates]

Oh, if you're dizzy and nauseated? Don't skate. That's the one time I don't skate - if I'm dizzy. It's too dangerous.

And if I just bump my head on the ice, no big deal, I skate. But an actual concussion? No.

[TiggerTooSkates]

I know there are a number of medical staffers on this board.

Would a skater always present concussion symptoms if they cracked their skull during a fall?


ETA: I'm not suggesting that's why you hurt, I'm just asking for future reference.

Someone else may have answered this by now. :D So if that's the case, forgive my redundancy.

What causes the symptoms that we recognize as a concussion is literally your brain sloshing into your skull. What happens is this: when you hit your head, and you hit it HARD, your HEAD stops suddenly, but your brain - which is softer, spongier tissue - keeps moving and slams into your skull and essentially develops a bruise. A concussion is actually classified as a traumatic head injury (i.e., a brain injury).

Not everyone presents IMMEDIATELY with concussion symptoms, because sometimes the brain actually has to swell more significantly before a person may be affected. The only true way to diagnose a concussion is by CT scan, where the swelling to the brain can actually be seen.

But the classic concussion symptoms - vomiting, severe headache, blurred vision, mild confusion, drowsiness, and occasionally more severe ones such as amnesia/temporary short term memory loss or strange pupilary action (you can have a whopper of a concussion, present with relatively mild symptoms - and have strange, unequal pupils) - are generally regarded as indicative of brain injury. Since these symptoms may not present immediately, this is why I advised her to more or less keep an eye on herself, and if she felt any different over time to seek medical attention immediately.

Not to scare anyone, but anything dealing with your brain (and for that matter, the rest of all that connected hardware, like your spinal cord) - and as I said a concussion is actually a traumatic brain injury - can become very serious very quickly. This is why at accident scenes the paramedics and EMTs are very reluctant to let you refuse assistance - because if you whacked your head hard enough to do it damage, you may not know it immediately.

People tend to brush concussions off as minor - and in the grand scheme of things, they usually are - but they may not be. The brain is a tricky, tricky thing.

Hope that helped - and as I said, if someone else already answered this, I apologize for duplicating.

ETA: Just saw Skittl's post. :)
And I would NEVER recommend skating with whiplash. Since whiplash is a soft tissue/muscular injury, what that means is there is already swelling in the area, and that particular area is no longer as protected as it should be. When you get whiplash, the area has been overextended too far in both directions (your head was whipped forward and then immediately whipped back by an opposing set of forces). This weakens all of that software in your neck - which may mean if you suddenly lost balance, and then fell and hit your head, any protective mechanisms you have (such as the instinct to attempt to hold your head up as you fall) have been severely compromised. It's like rearending someone in a car that has already had the front bumper ripped off - there's nothing to protect you from the impact.

Really not a good idea. But also none of my business, so forgive me for going all professional. :)

[ibreakhearts66]

Oh man I hate the blade-in-the-pants falls. I only skate in skin-tight se_ku or savvy skater pants now, but I've even managed to get stuck in those. Once I was doing a 2sal 2loop combo and got the heel stuck in my pants right above my boot. I slammed my hand and tailbone really hard, but almost started crying when I saw that I had torn my pants :oops:

[jazzpants]

Yes Skittl... I will heed her advice. And I'm seeing her again tomorrow too as well as Monday. I did a typo on my last post. Right now I'm not feeling very well. I took a little nap when I came home because I was very nauseous. That happens too after I'm treated sometimes but this time it's worse. So, no skating for me for the rest of the week. I love skating but love living more.
Good!!! Concussions are NOTHING to mess with!!! And you really DO need to see a doctor, but I'm glad your PT took the safe route and "grounded you."

(Okay, I'm not THAT bad. If I'm hurt enough, I do see the doctor almost right away and do NOT go back until I have the okay to go back.) I'll have to go back to my old posts to see if I was at any time nauseous after my fall accident on the stairs or when I collided with a skater and hit my head there. (Well, not head... just the jaw... probably didn't have a concussion then...)

[ibreakhearts66]

I'm glad your PT "grounded" you, and hope you listen to her. A second concussion immediatly after the first can have much more serious effects. (Look up "second impact syndrome")

I've said it before on skating forums, but often feel like when concussion threads come up it should be said again. A concussion is a traumatic brain injury, albeit the most mild of TBIs. Still, a brain injury. It's not a throwaway injury. Because of how sports casters use it as a throw-away term (player taken off the field, "oh, probably JUST a concussion") people generally don't think they are really that big of a deal. In the grand scheme of things that can go wrong- they aren't a huge deal, but they are a big deal. If you are feeling dizzy and nauseated you need to be off the ice. Much better to be off the ice this week then for the rest of your life.



ITA with what you just said. I was raised as a hard-core soccer player and head injuries were not taken NEARLY as seriously as they should have been. I had a ball cleared into my face from feet away by a really powerful kicker, was knocked out for a minute or so (not positive how long as I wasn't entirely there...), then encouraged to immediately get back in the game. I have heard the phrase "It's probably just a concussion, don't worry about it" many a time in my "career." At the same time, I think they're not taken as seriously because people self-diagnose and say they had a concussion (when they haven't) but "they're fine" and "it's no big deal" and "oh I can play through it."

[TiggerTooSkates]

When we were studying neurology in nursing school, our professor, who had been a neuro nurse for YEARS up here on Duke's 4th floor in the Neuro ICU, told us that the only time a concussion wasn't a big deal was if the person also had a severed spinal cord (because obviously the severed spinal cord was a bigger problem...) 8O

[Skittl1321]

When we were studying neurology in nursing school, our professor, who had been a neuro nurse for YEARS up here on Duke's 4th floor in the Neuro ICU, told us that the only time a concussion wasn't a big deal was if the person also had a severed spinal cord (because obviously the severed spinal cord was a bigger problem...) 8O

Oh eww- no talking like that.
Thanks for the information about whiplash as well. I didn't really realize what exactly that entailed other than just being really sore.

[sk8lady]

When we were studying neurology in nursing school, our professor, who had been a neuro nurse for YEARS up here on Duke's 4th floor in the Neuro ICU, told us that the only time a concussion wasn't a big deal was if the person also had a severed spinal cord (because obviously the severed spinal cord was a bigger problem...) 8O

HAHAHAHA! I need to send this to some of the other coaches. Somehow they have gone through the concussion section of the clinics and come out with "if you can count backwards, you don't have a concussion," and that's how they do their concussion assessments on the bench! (Although they also usually ask the 7-8 year olds, "Do you want to go back out?")

[Isk8NYC]

Oh man I hate the blade-in-the-pants falls. I only skate in skin-tight se_ku or savvy skater pants now, but I've even managed to get stuck in those. Once I was doing a 2sal 2loop combo and got the heel stuck in my pants right above my boot. I slammed my hand and tailbone really hard, but almost started crying when I saw that I had torn my pants :oops:
I took a splat like that - I was with a student working on pre-prel stroking. I turned to talk to her while demonstrating how I wanted her feet to come back together between strokes. The toepick got snagged, I stayed up for a second or two on one foot, then down I went on my well-cushioned bottom.

I was so embarrassed, I *jumped* back up right away and resumed the lesson. One of the ukrainian coaches at the rink saw it and said out loud something about "This is what good skater do! You fall, you GET BACK UP right away and continue lesson. Do not cry like baby and sit on ice." It really broke the tension - I laughed for the rest of the lesson even with the sore rump.

[herniated]

Thanks all...and Tiggertooskates - great info. And BTW I made this everyone's business and wanted input. Considering my doctors office (at least the people fielding calls) are a bunch of weenies. I called the office Monday when I first fell and asked basically for advice and if I should come in. The response I got was 'Did you lose consciousness? Is your vision blurred, dizzy, vomiting? Well, since you don't have any of these symptoms see how you feel in a couple of days.' !!!!!!!!!!!!! 8O So, the next day- Tuesday, I felt worse and called again. And was told 'Oh, the doctor is booked'. Nice.

I feel a bit better this morning and glad I did not skate today. Again, I see my PT later today. I'm not skating at all this week and I'll see what she says about next week. I do have whiplash and do feel compromised so what tigger said makes perfect sense regarding the ability to hold ones head up. I'm having trouble holding up my head just getting out of bed!!

And what sk8ldy said about coaches assessments? So true, so true. My coach was very concerned but as long as my vision wasn't blurred he was OK and I went back out and stroked around. He didn't mean any harm and I agreed to it but coaches should be required to have some first aid training. No offense to the coaches out there. I love mine dearly and my coach that day was very upset that I was hurt.

So, I'm taking it easy right now.

[Mrs Redboots]

coaches should be required to have some first aid training.
They are, in this country. And, like all qualified first-aiders, they must go on refresher courses every couple of years. I'm rather horrified to learn that this is not the case in the USA, especially as I understand that professional coaches are becoming the norm there - it should be a requirement of gettings one's professional registration.

[fsk8r]

They are, in this country. And, like all qualified first-aiders, they must go on refresher courses every couple of years. I'm rather horrified to learn that this is not the case in the USA, especially as I understand that professional coaches are becoming the norm there - it should be a requirement of gettings one's professional registration.

My US coach was also the rink manager. He told me that because of the litigation situation they were told to check that someone was alive, and then just leave them on the ice for the paramedics. They may offer them a jacket to cover them to keep them warm. But this was for those accidents where the victim falls over and doesn't pick themselves up again. But being an expat Brit I always felt safe enough that he would perform the first aid on me if I needed it. But the whole conversation left me a bit freaked out as we always have a firstaider at the rink over here.

[Skittl1321]

My US coach was also the rink manager. He told me that because of the litigation situation they were told to check that someone was alive, and then just leave them on the ice for the paramedics. They may offer them a jacket to cover them to keep them warm. But this was for those accidents where the victim falls over and doesn't pick themselves up again. But being an expat Brit I always felt safe enough that he would perform the first aid on me if I needed it. But the whole conversation left me a bit freaked out as we always have a firstaider at the rink over here.

Good Samaritan laws should protect a certified first aider who provides help. Though, I have heard second hand that we have had a few doctors who skated at our rink who gave up skating because they were frustrated that they were constantly needing to give up practice time to drag someone off the ice (mostly during public sessions).

[TiggerTooSkates]

Oh eww- no talking like that.
Thanks for the information about whiplash as well. I didn't really realize what exactly that entailed other than just being really sore.

My point with the post was that concussions are only NOT a big deal if you have something even worse wrong with you. :D Any sloshing your brain around is a big deal - there's a reason you see stars when you whack your head. ;)

[TiggerTooSkates]

Good Samaritan laws should protect a certified first aider who provides help. Though, I have heard second hand that we have had a few doctors who skated at our rink who gave up skating because they were frustrated that they were constantly needing to give up practice time to drag someone off the ice (mostly during public sessions).

Good Samaritan Laws are part of tort law, are as a result state-specific, and they can either protect anyone who acts in a prudent manner, OR only certified/licensed medical personnel (which would include MDs, PAs, RNs, EMTs, paramedics, etc, and in NC covers folks with certification like CPR and first aid). Depends on what state you're in. They were initially created to prevent lawsuits that survivors were filing against rescuers who, for example, saw people in burning cars and pulled them out, only for the person to end up paralyzed. Their second intention was to make it so people were NOT afraid to help someone in trouble (for many people, it's not putting themselves in danger that scares them, it's the potential for a court date - really). Good Samaritan Laws say that as long as you act as any reasonable, prudent person would in the same situation, you are protected from suit by the state in the event of a negative outcome - as long as your intention was not to injure the person but to rescue them - and it's done without looking for reward.

North Carolina has an excellent GSL - anyone who acts to rescue another is covered (which means if my sister pulled you out of a burning car in Raleigh, she'd be protected b/c in NC, anyone is) - but they are definitely state-specific with regards to who is protected and how. NC also has two parts to our GSL. One covers anyone offering volunteer medical assistance who is certified/licensed (like if I help someone at the rink who has a concussion :)) In this case, using me as an example, I'm not working within a specific scope of practice in a health care setting, but I'm considered able to render a specific level of care. The second part covers anyone offering emergency assistance to someone injured at the scene of a motor vehicle accident, as long as the actions are prudent and not completely, wantonly wrong, or intended to hurt the person.

If I remember correctly, all 50 states and DC have GSLs, but they really vary. I know that in some states, expecting or getting something afterward CAN actually be construed as seeking reward, and your protection under that state's GS statute can be voided. And as you said, in other states, it only covers licensed/certified personnel. In some states, the person has to be in EMINIENT DANGER. Check this out for appalling: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-23-samaritan-accident_N.htm

I mean, a wrecked car, with all that stuff leaking out, the antifreeze, gas, brake fluid, transmission fluid - heck, yeah, I'd want someone to drag me out too. Once you damage the engine, and since a wreck doesn't always make the car cut off and there's the whole spark thing with the ignition - you're one "pfft" away from the thing potentially blowing up.

I travel - a LOT - and I always feel that if I can help, I should (not that I would ever get in the way of a team onscene, mind you - but if the lady in line behind me at the grocery store suddenly passes out unconscious, I'd feel pretty low not doing anything about it). So I did research into that really quick!

Sorry - waxed a bit verbal - didn't mean to hijack the thread! GS laws are something I feel very strongly about - I think they should protect ANYONE. If I pass out in the mall and my heart stops beating, you can bet my family would never sue someone who tried to help (if you're certified in CPR, you're covered by NC's GSL). But CPR breaks your ribs - if not, it's actually not being done right - and I have heard of people trying to sue the person who actually saved their life because every one of their ribs were broken in the process. (This is why I think everyone over the age of about 12 should be CPR trained - I was a cardholder in the 7th grade. At 12 you have enough upper body strength to correctly deliver chest compressions to anyone, and the reasoning you need to be able to do so.) Completely disgraceful - and exactly why the laws were created in the first place.

I'll shut up now. 8O:halo:

[fsk8r]

I think it's articles like the one you just said which have frightened the rink staff in Texas into not giving first aid to people and clearing them off the ice. I don't know what the GS laws are like there (and I don't live there anymore so am quite happy knowing that I'm going to be given assistance in the UK). Interestingly in the UK it's a professional requirement that nurses and doctors stop at the scene of an accident. Although some nurses are reluctant to do it, because if they're not in uniform it can open a can of worms. However, most people are reasonable and if there's no one at an accident scene they will stop. I did pass an overturned truck with my sister once and I insisted that she offered assistance (she's the nurse) as the emergency services hadn't arrived, but it turned out everyone from the accident was walking around (we couldn't see the truck cab when we stopped) so she was satisfied that we could continue safely and we did so as the police arrived seconds after we stopped.
But at the rink she will offer assistance whilst we wait for the first aider and if it's just her and the first aider around she'll stay with the patient until they're fully treated.
It's a shame that litigation gets in the way of these things elsewhere.

OK I'll stop thread hijacking as well now.

[katz in boots]

"if you can count backwards, you don't have a concussion"

Tee hee. When I got concussion a few months back, the doctor in the ER asked me to count to 5 in German. I told him I don't speak German, but did it in French instead. Maybe if I had tried in German that would've confirmed I had a problem:P

But yes, he seriously told me not to skate again for 2 weeks as a 2nd impact in that time could cause serious, even fatal, complications.

[sk8lady]

They are, in this country. And, like all qualified first-aiders, they must go on refresher courses every couple of years. I'm rather horrified to learn that this is not the case in the USA, especially as I understand that professional coaches are becoming the norm there - it should be a requirement of gettings one's professional registration.

Both USA Hockey and the PSA are now offering first aid certifications online. At my Registered test last month I was strongly encouraged to take the online course and USA Hockey has sent out emails doing the same, so it's very possible that it may become a requirement in the near future.

Regarding the Good Samaritan laws), there has been a HUGE increase in the number of states with laws that cover those offering aid and assistance since I was in law school lo those many years ago--I think we studied one of the original cases which led to the development of GSLs! However, any time aid is administered, one does have to bear in mind that the aid should be what a prudent person would administer given the circumstances, so that the aid shouldn't be something that would be likely to cause a more serious injury.

You never get the whole story from a USA Today article (!) but it's pretty likely the judge in that case believed the injured woman's account that she was yanked out of the car rather violently by one arm--not that the other woman wasn't trying to help, but the judge could easily have found that a prudent person wouldn't or shouldn't treat someone who had just been in a bad accident in this manner. Wouldn't surprise me if the judge also made findings that the car wasn't about to blow up, either (actually, when I worked in the D.A.'s office, the fire marshall once told me that it's pretty rare for cars to actually suddenly explode--they're more likely to catch on fire and burn--although the emergency room personnel here would probably had more first person experience than I!)

I'm rambling and I AM in favor of Good Samaritan laws but my point is, don't believe everything you read in USA Today!

[Isk8NYC]

I have first aid and CPR training from my "first sport" as a swimming instructor and lifeguard, but I feel like it's "too old."
Instead of signing up for the defibrillator update, I signed up for a new course. I figure it should be good for PSA credit - I'm going to submit the affidavit and see.

Online is probably okay for first aid, but for CPR, you really need the hands-on practice or you'll break someon e's rib.

[herniated]

Ok.. so I went to my PT again today. She does not want me skating till next week.. late next week. I'm OK with that. I'm going to see the chiropractor Monday and see how I feel. Every day is a little better. I didn't have any waves of nausea today except when she worked on me and the whiplash is MUCH better.

[herniated]

I'm still having some facial pain/ear pain and it just 'dawned' :idea:on me... I forgot that I have TMJ. I don't know how I forgot because I wear a specially fitted mouth gard at night, every night. (I clench my teeth at night.:mrgreen:) The discomfort is very much like TMJ discomfort. So, I went online to research all this and sure enough a bonk on the head can make all this nonsense flare up!! Duuhhh!! :roll:

Know what else I never told my chiropractor/ ART practitioner? That I have TMJ!!:roll: OMG... he can help me with that. I am such a doofus sometimes.

[Moto Guzzi]

No, you're not a doofus; you just had too many other aches and pains to think about TMJ. I had a serious concussion and had pain in my jaw when I tried to open my mouth. My doctor said it was due to muscle spasms and that my entire body probably tensed up when I smacked my head on the ice. One ultrasound treatment fixed the jaw pain. It took longer to fix everything else.

[doubletoe]

OK, Herniated, I am now sending an extra dose of sympathy your way! I hope you feel better soon!!

[herniated]

Thanks Moto and doubletoe. I really need the support today. I saw the chiropractor today and he worked on my neck which he felt was very 'out'. AND, said I should take another week off from skating!! He wants to work on it again this week and maayyybeee on Friday I can skate. Maybe. I will listen to him. Again, I love living more than skating but man do I need skating this week.

[doubletoe]

Thanks Moto and doubletoe. I really need the support today. I saw the chiropractor today and he worked on my neck which he felt was very 'out'. AND, said I should take another week off from skating!! He wants to work on it again this week and maayyybeee on Friday I can skate. Maybe. I will listen to him. Again, I love living more than skating but man do I need skating this week.

Ugh! Could you do something else just to loosen up your body, like maybe some swimming?

[herniated]

Thanks for the suggestion doubletoe but I kinda don't like swimming much. Probly cause I'm not good at it. I've been stretching a bit and will continue until I'm back on the ice and cleared for the gym. I can't lift weights now either due to the neck.

I'm feeling better this evening. The best I've ever felt since the fall so all the treatments are working.

[doubletoe]

Thanks for the suggestion doubletoe but I kinda don't like swimming much. Probly cause I'm not good at it. I've been stretching a bit and will continue until I'm back on the ice and cleared for the gym. I can't lift weights now either due to the neck.

I'm feeling better this evening. The best I've ever felt since the fall so all the treatments are working.

Oh, I'm glad to hear that. Meanwhile, sounds like a good excuse for a massage appointment. :P

[RachelSk8er]

Good Samaritan Laws are part of tort law, are as a result state-specific, and they can either protect anyone who acts in a prudent manner, OR only certified/licensed medical personnel (which would include MDs, PAs, RNs, EMTs, paramedics, etc, and in NC covers folks with certification like CPR and first aid). Depends on what state you're in. They were initially created to prevent lawsuits that survivors were filing against rescuers who, for example, saw people in burning cars and pulled them out, only for the person to end up paralyzed. Their second intention was to make it so people were NOT afraid to help someone in trouble (for many people, it's not putting themselves in danger that scares them, it's the potential for a court date - really). Good Samaritan Laws say that as long as you act as any reasonable, prudent person would in the same situation, you are protected from suit by the state in the event of a negative outcome - as long as your intention was not to injure the person but to rescue them - and it's done without looking for reward.

North Carolina has an excellent GSL - anyone who acts to rescue another is covered (which means if my sister pulled you out of a burning car in Raleigh, she'd be protected b/c in NC, anyone is) - but they are definitely state-specific with regards to who is protected and how. NC also has two parts to our GSL. One covers anyone offering volunteer medical assistance who is certified/licensed (like if I help someone at the rink who has a concussion :)) In this case, using me as an example, I'm not working within a specific scope of practice in a health care setting, but I'm considered able to render a specific level of care. The second part covers anyone offering emergency assistance to someone injured at the scene of a motor vehicle accident, as long as the actions are prudent and not completely, wantonly wrong, or intended to hurt the person.

If I remember correctly, all 50 states and DC have GSLs, but they really vary. I know that in some states, expecting or getting something afterward CAN actually be construed as seeking reward, and your protection under that state's GS statute can be voided. And as you said, in other states, it only covers licensed/certified personnel. In some states, the person has to be in EMINIENT DANGER. Check this out for appalling: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-23-samaritan-accident_N.htm

I mean, a wrecked car, with all that stuff leaking out, the antifreeze, gas, brake fluid, transmission fluid - heck, yeah, I'd want someone to drag me out too. Once you damage the engine, and since a wreck doesn't always make the car cut off and there's the whole spark thing with the ignition - you're one "pfft" away from the thing potentially blowing up.

I travel - a LOT - and I always feel that if I can help, I should (not that I would ever get in the way of a team onscene, mind you - but if the lady in line behind me at the grocery store suddenly passes out unconscious, I'd feel pretty low not doing anything about it). So I did research into that really quick!

Sorry - waxed a bit verbal - didn't mean to hijack the thread! GS laws are something I feel very strongly about - I think they should protect ANYONE. If I pass out in the mall and my heart stops beating, you can bet my family would never sue someone who tried to help (if you're certified in CPR, you're covered by NC's GSL). But CPR breaks your ribs - if not, it's actually not being done right - and I have heard of people trying to sue the person who actually saved their life because every one of their ribs were broken in the process. (This is why I think everyone over the age of about 12 should be CPR trained - I was a cardholder in the 7th grade. At 12 you have enough upper body strength to correctly deliver chest compressions to anyone, and the reasoning you need to be able to do so.) Completely disgraceful - and exactly why the laws were created in the first place.

I'll shut up now. 8O:halo:

Haaaaaaaaa you sound like me (as I sit here with my torts book that I *should* be reading right now sitting next to me, but the internet and the Olympics on TV are much more entertaining....)

[Skittl1321]

Interesting article about concussions that seemed relevent to this thread:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26156018/


Hope you are doing well herniated.

[herniated]

Thanks Skittle.. very interesting article. Very.

[herniated]

Update time. Went to the chiropractor aaagaaiinn today. He said my neck was good! And I can skate again!! I'm planning on skating on Friday morning but will take it easy. Probably no jumping or spinning. THanks everyone for your support!!

[TiggerTooSkates]

I have first aid and CPR training from my "first sport" as a swimming instructor and lifeguard, but I feel like it's "too old."
Instead of signing up for the defibrillator update, I signed up for a new course. I figure it should be good for PSA credit - I'm going to submit the affidavit and see.

Online is probably okay for first aid, but for CPR, you really need the hands-on practice or you'll break someon e's rib.


Actually, Isk8NYC, if you don't break ribs in CPR, you're not compressing the chest hard enough - that's the scariest thing for me, knowing that that is what I'm going to do to the person. You have to push on the sternum hard enough to compress the heart, a muscle built to last for AT LEAST seventy-eighty odd years in most of us, far enough to push blood through a body that is not able to do it for itself. To sort of put it into perspective, normal barometric pressure in the atmosphere is what, about 22mmHg (22 millimeters of mercury)? A normal systolic blood pressure - the top number - for the sake of argument is 120mmHg - about TEN TIMES as much pressure as atmospheric. The systolic blood pressure, again for the sake of argument, is the amount of force pushing the blood away from the heart. So you're sort of pushing with ten times the force that the air around you is pushing on you!

If you don't hear or feel ribs crack, you're essentially doing it wrong. I've given CPR to real people in code situations - and ribs will and do break. And no, it's not pleasant and it's awful and you can only think about it when you hear the first one go. CPR is nothing like what you see on TV, it's HARD WORK - after about two minutes of compressions, you have to stop and switch off (if someone's available, if not, you keep going; I was so sore the next day I could barely hold my arms up to drive, and I lift weights three to four times a week!) because you are literally worn out. I was soaked from the skin out with sweat from doing compressions - I had to have someone pull my glasses off my face because I couldn't keep them on; they kept sliding off my nose. Now when there's a code, I take them off before I go into the room - unless I'm the one handing off the drugs!

Hats off to you for taking a new first aid course, BTW.


OMG, I did it again, didn't I? 8O SORRY!

Herniated - SO GLAD to hear you're on the mend!! How are you doing?

[herniated]

My neck is doing fine now and I did skate on Friday only to destroy my back on Saturday cleaning the bathtub. Much stress. I talked about it more on another thread I started in Non skating discussion - 81 year old mom having heart surgery.

Thanks all for your support.

[doubletoe]

My neck is doing fine now and I did skate on Friday only to destroy my back on Saturday cleaning the bathtub. Much stress. I talked about it more on another thread I started in Non skating discussion - 81 year old mom having heart surgery.

Thanks all for your support.

Well, I hope you have learned your lesson from this. Follow my lead on the whole housework issue: If you are a skater, make the necessary sacrifices, including NEVER cleaning your bathtub!

[singerskates]

Well, I hope you have learned your lesson from this. Follow my lead on the whole housework issue: If you are a skater, make the necessary sacrifices, including NEVER cleaning your bathtub!

Isn't there that automatic shower cleaner that you hang from your shower? You're suppose to just have to press the button everytime you want to clean your tub and then it does it while you walk away.

I should buy that because with my herniated disks and messed up arms when I lean forward too long, I end up in pain for a while until I stretch it out for at least a half hour and sometimes more.

Besides, wouldn't we rather spend the time skating instead of doing our tubs?

[Skittl1321]

Isn't there that automatic shower cleaner that you hang from your shower? You're suppose to just have to press the button everytime you want to clean your tub and then it does it while you walk away.

I should buy that because with my herniated disks and messed up arms when I lean forward too long, I end up in pain for a while until I stretch it out for at least a half hour and sometimes more.

Besides, wouldn't we rather spend the time skating instead of doing our tubs?

Yep- scrubbing bubbles makes one. If you have a stand up shower, it's fantastic. We cleaned ours, and then used that for 2 years- never cleaned it again, the automatic one did just fine.

However, now that we have a tub shower, we can't use it. It only hits about 1/4- 1/2 the way through the tub. So we still have to clean the other half.

[Isk8NYC]

Well, I hope you have learned your lesson from this. Follow my lead on the whole housework issue: If you are a skater, make the necessary sacrifices, including NEVER cleaning your bathtub!
Or vacuuming...washing floors...carrying heavy pots...

This could be a good scam! I already avoid ironing (except when sewing) since my MIL never ironed.

[techskater]

Or making the necessary sacrifices (elsewhere) to have a cleaning lady. ;)

[sk8lady]

I assigned my husband and my son to each clean one bathroom and refused to clean them if they forgot. Although I did break down and wipe the mold out of the sink yesterday... :o

[dbny]

I assigned my husband and my son to each clean one bathroom and refused to clean them if they forgot. Although I did break down and wipe the mold out of the sink yesterday... :o

There is a reason gas station bathrooms are notoriously disgusting, and I suspect it's genetic.

[Isk8NYC]

There is a reason gas station bathrooms are notoriously disgusting, and I suspect it's genetic.
Hess stations usually have clean bathrooms. (The company-operated ones at least - old dealer stations are a crapshoot. Literally)

Leon Hess never allowed chairs or benches for the employees. If they weren't pumping gas, they were supposed to be cleaning something.

[dbny]

Hess stations usually have clean bathrooms. (The company-operated ones at least - old dealer stations are a crapshoot. Literally)


Yes, HOORAY for Hess!