What to do next? Confused parents

[sk8rmom2006]

I am so confused.

Just came back from a big competition. DD did well consider the amount of time and money we can afford her to do. But looking at other skaters in her level, there are huge gap. This gap is not because my DD's fault. Other skaters skates 15+ hours per week, plue off ice and ballet training, etc. If she can get 6 hours/week during school time, she would be lucky. We could not find someone can drive her on time from her school to the rink. Even in the rink, the freestyle ice only up to 6:00pm, sometimes only up to 5:00pm. I felt so bad for my DD because her competition is not apple to apple. One might say, ok, then just take it easy. Well, this USFSA has the rule that you have to be younger than 13 to compete in Juv. So we can't say that you don't need to worry about timing.

Deep in my heart, I would like her to quit. But I am not brave enough to tell her that. It would break her heart. I would like to know are there any skaters parents out there have the same feelings, confused, angery and hopeless.

She in in Juv level, we have hard time to up keep her training bills and time. How are we going to up keep with her when she moves up?

I can't mortage my house for her bills. I can't quit my job to watch her training in the rink all the time. I have other kid to take care of. I know she is going to be decent skaters, but definitely not going to be a star. What is your suggestion in my situation? How do I approach my DD and tell her to quit without hurting her feelings? How are you so sure that she said what she meant - like she likes figure skating?

Confused mom.

[Ellyn]

You can tell her that you can't afford the kind of training that is necessary to be competitive at juvenile level and above. That's a fact that she can't change. She does have some choice about what to do with it.

She could quit skating completely.

She could continue to take lessons, practice, and pass tests without entering competitions. She could compete in Open Juvenile or Test Track events, or she could enter regular events knowing that she won't place well.

If there's a synchro team at an appropriate level near you, she might choose that as her competitive outlet.

She could focus on the artistic rather than competitive side of skating and aim more at club shows or interpretive competitions or Theatre on Ice, as available in your area.

When I was a 14-year-old preliminary skater and my parents made it clear to me that they weren't going to support the level of training necessary to get to intermediate level before finishing high school, I chose to quit. But that was in the days of required school figures and no such thing as Open Juvenile or synchro teams. In the same situation in today's context I might have made a different decision.

[techskater]

Synchro would be a great option considering your location because there are two very established and strong synchro teams in the area - the Chicago Jazz and the Skokie Valley Starlights.

The other option is to be honest with your daughter about what YOU can afford from a time and $$ perspective. My parents did that with me as a kid (we can afford for you to skate x hours per week, take x lessons, and compete x times per year and we can only afford x time to take you so if you are going to skate it must be at x time). I didn't make it very far competitively, but I did learn to love the sport and have returned as an adult. I guess you could say my parents fostered a life long love! :bow:

[sk8lady]

How does your daughter feel about this? And how old is she? Was she upset about her placement at the competition, or was she happy with it? Would she be just as happy sticking to tests and shows? And what does her coach think? You don't have to make the decision alone--your daughter and her coach probably have input that could help. And skating should really be a lifelong sport--I hate to think of someone quitting because they're not going to be an elite skater! She could always train to judge when she's older--one of our local kids started training at about 16 and has been trial judging for the last couple years, although he rarely skates anymore and refuses to participate in shows or competitions. (And that gives a kid something to talk about on college applications!)

[sk8tmum]

Talk to her coach. Discuss the situation. Ask her about what your daughter's abilities are (realizing that coaches are not able to forecast the future). Explain your frustrations and worries about finances. See if the coach has any suggestions.

Talk to your kid. She's likely picking up on the tension. She may be wondering herself about the future. This is a great time to have a dialogue about her hopes, dreams, goals, and ambitions - and for her to realize that she has to take ownership for some of this and for her to recognize and respect the commitment you are making.

Just a thought. None of this is easy, every skating parent has been there or will be there. It's a freakin' expensive sport, and there are a lot of ways to spend money. It's just figuring out how to make it work for everyone. But, fretting in silence is just going to make you miserable, which will likely impact everyone ...

[Mrs Redboots]

If you want her to quit because you're finding it hard to afford her skating, that is one thing. That needs to be the subject of a family discussion, and also one with her and her coach.

If, however, you want her to quit because she isn't competitive at her level - well, surely that's her decision, not yours. If she's happy with it, great. If she's not, but still wants to go on skating, again, discuss all your options with her and her coach. Plenty of room in the sport for the non-elite skaters - and all the clubs are crying out for good basic skaters who will happily skate in the chorus line at shows and represent the club at inter-club competitions, and not have to fight with the prima donnas (or their mothers) who think they should be the star!

[Lenny2]

Sounds like she is the perfect candidate for USFSA's new competitve test track. This track allows skaters to compete using elements that track the same elements that are in the test levels, and nothing more. Consequently, it is far less "competitive" than the traditional levels. So, for example, although the traditional juveniles may compete with all the double jumps (including a double axel if they have it), competitive test track would only permit the skater to include up to an axel. Most USFSA competitions seem to be including competitive test track events now. This allows skaters like your to continue to test and compete without feeling the need to keep up with the kids who are trying to make it to Nationals and the Olympics.

Here is a link to more information on the competitive test track: http://www.usfsa.org/Programs.asp?id=79

[littlekateskate]

Are there any ISI rinks around your area? When you have less money some people think its a better way to go. And its less competitive. Although she wont be going to Nationals lol.. She will still get the experience and enjoyment from it.

And if she ever has some training break through or you win the lottery she could go back to USFS

[jskater49]

My daughter never was able to skate more than 5-6 hours a week. She was competitive up to intermediate. She knew it and wanted to test up to intermediate anyway. Competition was never about winning for her and she still loved to compete. I guess I just don't get this mindset that if you don't place well, there's no point to competing or even skating.

j

[blue111moon]

I guess I just don't get this mindset that if you don't place well, there's no point to competing or even skating.

j

I don't get that either. If you put your kid in dance classes and she loves dancing, do you make her quit because she probably won't make it to Broadway? How many kids who play tennis make it to Wimbledon?

There's so much more to skating than winning medals at competitions. For one thing, it's great exercise. So do it for the exercise and the fun and the challenge of learning something new.

[Query]

BTW, some day your kid will find you posts on the board, figure out it's her, and read all your posts. The WWW is not a secret.

A lot of people think you can only practice at freestyle sessions, cuz publics are too crowded. That's true of some public sessions at some rinks, but the opposite is often true, if you look hard enough, though I admit the best sessions are often at the least convenient times (very early, during work hours, or very late), in the least convenient locations. Most rinks I like let you practice figure skating moves during non-busy public sessions. You just have to look.

Someone told me Chicago has such a surplus of rinks 2 or 3 miles from other that many let "join" and skate all the public sessions for $50 - $100 / year. If your favorate rink doesn't have the hours, others do.

That won't solve all your problems, but it can help.

I don't think telling your daughter you think she wasn't up to the standards of the others in The Bigger Pond is a good idea.

First because it isn't. Second because it isn't, and because some reasons it might hypothetically be true (I don't know your daughter) - power, endurance and speed - are solvable by a little practice plus some free off-ice exercise. Third because it isn't.

Fourth because there are littler ponds where she can still shine. In any athletic activity, an unimaginably small fraction make it to the very top. Should a little girl stop ballet because her parents suddenly realize she will never be the prima ballerina of the Russian National Ballet? Or a boy stop basketball practice because he'll never be tall enough to make it to the NBA?

Do you trust any other skating parents in your area? You can alternate with them driving kids to and from rinks, and supervising them there.

ISA and USFSA both offer "scholarships" for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds of various sorts.

There have been a number of threads here recently about kids working jobs to help support skating, like helping LTS teachers, in possible preperation for becoming a coach herself. E.g.,

http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=27053

BTW, I've never understood how so many parents could do it, so we all understand.Hopefully your DD will too.

[twokidsskatemom]

BTW, some day your kid will find you posts on the board, figure out it's her, and read all your posts. The WWW is not a secret.

A lot of people think you can only practice at freestyle sessions, cuz publics are too crowded. That's true of some public sessions at some rinks, but the opposite is often true, if you look hard enough, though I admit the best sessions are often at the least convenient times (very early, during work hours, or very late), in the least convenient locations. Most rinks I like let you practice figure skating moves during non-busy public sessions. You just have to look.

Someone told me Chicago has such a surplus of rinks 2 or 3 miles from other that many let "join" and skate all the public sessions for $50 - $100 / year. If your favorate rink doesn't have the hours, others do.

That won't solve all your problems, but it can help.

I don't think telling your daughter you think she wasn't up to the standards of the others in The Bigger Pond is a good idea.

First because it isn't. Second because it isn't, and because some reasons it might hypothetically be true (I don't know your daughter) - power, endurance and speed - are solvable by a little practice plus some free off-ice exercise. Third because it isn't.

Fourth because there are littler ponds where she can still shine. In any athletic activity, an unimaginably small fraction make it to the very top. Should a little girl stop ballet because her parents suddenly realize she will never be the prima ballerina of the Russian National Ballet? Or a boy stop basketball practice because he'll never be tall enough to make it to the NBA?

Do you trust any other skating parents in your area? You can alternate with them driving kids to and from rinks, and supervising them there.

ISA and USFSA both offer "scholarships" for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds of various sorts.

There have been a number of threads here recently about kids working jobs to help support skating, like helping LTS teachers, in possible preperation for becoming a coach herself. E.g.,

http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=27053

BTW, I've never understood how so many parents could do it, so we all understand.Hopefully your DD will too.

I am not sure why it would matter if her daughter finds the post or not.I am sure the daughter knows this is an expensive sport.
That said, ISI and usfsa only offer money to high level skaters. ISI offers money to high school kids, not 11 year olds. Her daughter couldnt get any money right now.It doesnt matter how disavantaged you are, they dont pass out money at low levels.
I understand how the mom feels.Its hard to keep spending money in this sport if your aim to to compete and you knows its hard to compete with skaters that have more.She didnt say placements matter, she did say its hard to compete at a level when your skater doesnt have what the other skaters have.Hard to justify spending 1000.00 to travel to compete when you know your skater will not place well.Local comps are different.
I know her daughter is juv level. working on double/doubles. She cant skate that much on public skate.
I know her daughter is a good skater :}
Maybe something to think about is competing on the test track till she gets back on track.Is she 13 soon and moving up to intermed?I understand about the age thing.
Please know there are lots of parents that feel the same way. We take it one week at a time :}
good luck

[Kim to the Max]

I've been thinking about this situation...and it is quite a complex issue....

I can completely understand about the money. Money is tight all over the place! But, on the other hand, how could you ask someone to give up something they love to do?

As others have said, in terms of competitions...there is the test track, which is fairly new, there is also an open juvenile level (which, if I remember correctly, doesn't have an age limit). There is also the option of not competing and working hard these next few years to master the jumps, spins, etc. and working on testing. She could work on testing her moves levels (if she doesn't have her Intermediate and up yet), or she could start dance to help improve her freeskating. There are a lot of options...

As for the lack of ice time. Again, I completely understand...there may not be anything you can do about this one, but....is there anyone at the rink that you could have your daughter carpool with? I used to do that as a kid and still do it today...my coach and I take turns driving to the rink since we are both coming from just about the same area...

[Rusty Blades]

To be a top level competitive skater a person needs:
Money
MORE money!
One or more coaches
One or more good rinks
A bit of talent

About 5 years ago I remember hearing that girls contenting at the National level were putting between $50,000 and $75,000 a year into their training and practically living at the rink. That's the kind of resources that are required.

As a teen I LOVED skating but didn't have the financial resources to go anywhere. I quit when I got injured and I am sorry I did. It was 36 years before I returned to the ice and started all over again in Adult competition. I wish I had "kept a foot in" so to speak instead of letting it go so long.

Part of this sport is recognizing your limitations (even if only financial) and finding a niche that fits. Don't let your DD quit because she is 'bottom of the standings'! (That's where I have been since I started competing and I would rather be there than not competing at all.)

[jskater49]

I am not sure why it would matter if her daughter finds the post or not.I am sure the daughter knows this is an expensive sport.
She didnt say placements matter, she did say its hard to compete at a level when your skater doesnt have what the other skaters have.Hard to justify spending 1000.00 to travel to compete when you know your skater will not place well.Local comps are different.
I know her daughter is juv level. working on double/doubles. She cant skate that much on public skate.
I know her daughter is a good skater :}
Maybe something to think about is competing on the test track till she gets back on track.Is she 13 soon and moving up to intermed?I understand about the age thing.
Please know there are lots of parents that feel the same way. We take it one week at a time :}
good luck

I'm sorry I still don't get what is so hard. My daughter competed at regionals in intermediate last fall. She tried a double/double but didn't land it. She doesn't have a double axel which most intermediates at Regionals do. She came in dead last. She was happy to be there. She was happy with how she skated. She got to go to regionals. She had a gorgeous dress.

Now explain to me again what all the angst is about?

j

[twokidsskatemom]

I'm sorry I still don't get what is so hard. My daughter competed at regionals in intermediate last fall. She tried a double/double but didn't land it. She doesn't have a double axel which most intermediates at Regionals do. She came in dead last. She was happy to be there. She was happy with how she skated. She got to go to regionals. She had a gorgeous dress.

Now explain to me again what all the angst is about?

j
I dont think I said there was angst, did I ?
I did say it cost alot of money to compete, and some people dont have it if they know there skater will not place well.Its hard for me to justify 5000 for regionals if we know our skater doesnt have the elements that other do at a level.
I am glad your daughter didnt have issues. My own daughter wouldnt either, but I am not the OP. I do understand the money concerns.Any parent that has a skater that wants something we as parents cant provide would understand.Or a parent that has a skater with natural talent that will not progress due to money.We live in a place with two coaches. I do understand how the OP feels.
That is why the test track would help her stay in the sport and compete.Maybe she can then get caught up on her skills.

[Tennisany1]

I think it is important to remember that the same number of competitors come last as come first. Whenever my dd asked me how I think she will place, I always say "first or last or somewhere in between."

I guess my point is is that of all the skaters in your dd's group at her last competition the chances of ANY OF THEM making the National team are slim to none. There is one National champion per year and thousands and thousands of kids trying to get there. Your dd can set goals for each season and each competition that are reasonable given your financial resourses and available time yet still push her a bit. If she loves to skate, as another poster said, it is great exercise, it keeps her out of the mall, and it will hopefully teach her the value of working hard even if you don't win. In real life there is one boss and lots of workers. Understanding the value of hard work and a job well done rather than just being the top dog will serve her well her whole life, long after the skating medals are collecting dust in a bottom drawer.

Telling her you don't think she has what it will take will also stay with her and teach her that it is the success that counts not the hard work on the road travelled. That IMHO is not a good way to go. Be open and honest about the finances and time but allow her to enjoy her journey even if it isn't to the top of the podium.

[singerskates]

I am so confused.

Just came back from a big competition. DD did well consider the amount of time and money we can afford her to do. But looking at other skaters in her level, there are huge gap. This gap is not because my DD's fault. Other skaters skates 15+ hours per week, plue off ice and ballet training, etc. If she can get 6 hours/week during school time, she would be lucky. We could not find someone can drive her on time from her school to the rink. Even in the rink, the freestyle ice only up to 6:00pm, sometimes only up to 5:00pm. I felt so bad for my DD because her competition is not apple to apple. One might say, ok, then just take it easy. Well, this USFSA has the rule that you have to be younger than 13 to compete in Juv. So we can't say that you don't need to worry about timing.

Deep in my heart, I would like her to quit. But I am not brave enough to tell her that. It would break her heart. I would like to know are there any skaters parents out there have the same feelings, confused, angery and hopeless.

She in in Juv level, we have hard time to up keep her training bills and time. How are we going to up keep with her when she moves up?

I can't mortage my house for her bills. I can't quit my job to watch her training in the rink all the time. I have other kid to take care of. I know she is going to be decent skaters, but definitely not going to be a star. What is your suggestion in my situation? How do I approach my DD and tell her to quit without hurting her feelings? How are you so sure that she said what she meant - like she likes figure skating?

Confused mom.Most of those other kids who are skating 15+ hours a week plus other off-ice classes are going to burn out before age 16. There's plenty of time for your DD to reach the Novice or Junior level by the time she is 16. What you might want to try is putting her in ISI instead of USFSA so that she could train and compete at a cost you can manage. And when she is in highschool she could get odd jobs like delivering newspapers and babysitting to help pay for the USFSA training when she crosses back to it from ISI. ISI is a recreational path but did you know that Micheal Weiss was once an ISI skater. We all know what Micheal Weiss achieved and I'm Canadian. DD doesn't need to quit but needs to shift from one stream to the other for a while. Plus there are things that the ISI teaches which will help your DD later on when in the higher ranks of the USFSA. If she has fun now without the stress in skating, she will continue to blossom and maybe one day get to the top of the US Senior ranks.

If she's stressed out and you're stressed out USFSA isn't the way to go for now. I believe skaters should always "Just Have Fun!" when skating.

[4rkidz]

I am so confused.

Just came back from a big competition. DD did well consider the amount of time and money we can afford her to do. But looking at other skaters in her level, there are huge gap. This gap is not because my DD's fault. Other skaters skates 15+ hours per week, plue off ice and ballet training, etc. If she can get 6 hours/week during school time, she would be lucky. We could not find someone can drive her on time from her school to the rink. Even in the rink, the freestyle ice only up to 6:00pm, sometimes only up to 5:00pm. I felt so bad for my DD because her competition is not apple to apple. One might say, ok, then just take it easy. Well, this USFSA has the rule that you have to be younger than 13 to compete in Juv. So we can't say that you don't need to worry about timing.

Deep in my heart, I would like her to quit. But I am not brave enough to tell her that. It would break her heart. I would like to know are there any skaters parents out there have the same feelings, confused, angery and hopeless.

She in in Juv level, we have hard time to up keep her training bills and time. How are we going to up keep with her when she moves up?

I can't mortage my house for her bills. I can't quit my job to watch her training in the rink all the time. I have other kid to take care of. I know she is going to be decent skaters, but definitely not going to be a star. What is your suggestion in my situation? How do I approach my DD and tell her to quit without hurting her feelings? How are you so sure that she said what she meant - like she likes figure skating?

Confused mom.

I know how difficult it can be, but you also have to be realistic about the fact that any athletics at the elite level gets more and more expensive.. in fact the better she becomes the more expensive it will be.. thats why we have to take second jobs etc., I have worked with families with elite skaters and it can literally break families apart - the financial stress! Your priority needs to be your whole family unit first and you need to be realistic about what you can and cannot afford for her - especially with other children in the picture. I agree with the other posters that you need to be honest with her and talk about the realities of the situation. There is a way for her to continue her passion of skating but perhaps a different path than you are currently on? Good luck..

[isakswings]

This post is interesting to me... I've been trying to get my head around how we will continue to afford dd's lessons as she progresses. My dd is still in LTS classes, so we'll finish those and continue on with her private lessons also. Dd loves the sport too!

I have no idea where this will take us, but I am planning on taking it day to day and we'll see what happens from there. I'm happy to see there are some viable options for us down the road(test track, syncro if she's interested) and reading this thread has me feeling a bit better.

To the original OP... good luck. I hope you can find a happy medium for both you and your dd. I understand how expensive this sport is and we're just begining! :-)

[jskater49]

I dont think I said there was angst, did I ?
I did say it cost alot of money to compete, and some people dont have it if they know there skater will not place well.Its hard for me to justify 5000 for regionals if we know our skater doesnt have the elements that other do at a level.
.

Skating is expensive whether you compete or not. But I didn't spend $5000 for her to go to Regionals. But we are in the Upper Great Lakes Region and it's never more than a few hours drive. I get our hotel on Hotwire.

Yes both you and the OP sound full of angst and I don't get it. I get that skating is expensive. I don't get having to justify the expense of a competition by how the child places. I think that's a terrible burden to put on your skater to think it's only worth the money if she places well. If you can't afford to compete, don't compete. But don't connect it to winning.

j

[smelltheice]

Skating is expensive whether you compete or not. But I didn't spend $5000 for her to go to Regionals. But we are in the Upper Great Lakes Region and it's never more than a few hours drive. I get our hotel on Hotwire.

Yes both you and the OP sound full of angst and I don't get it. I get that skating is expensive. I don't get having to justify the expense of a competition by how the child places. I think that's a terrible burden to put on your skater to think it's only worth the money if she places well. If you can't afford to compete, don't compete. But don't connect it to winning.

j

I kind of understand that you don't want you child to be disappointed with placing low down the rankings and understand that there will be some kids that might tease her or be mean to her about it. It seems to me that the point being is you would rather spend the money on something that will benefit her future as opposed to something that could disappoint or damage you daughters confidence if you have to choose between one or the other. It was the same with me when I used to have horses. I enjoyed going to shows and competing but the money was tight so had to compromise as to where the money went. I was eventually priced out of it but still have friends who do it for a living and they could not justify taking one horse hundreds of miles across country to a show if there is no chance of winning or placing when they could take several to a local show and at least gain some money back that will help pay towards the cost of the next show. I know there is no prize money in skating generally but it is the compromise that is the point.

[jskater49]

I was eventually priced out of it but still have friends who do it for a living and they could not justify taking one horse hundreds of miles across country to a show if there is no chance of winning or placing when they could take several to a local show and at least gain some money back that will help pay towards the cost of the next show. I know there is no prize money in skating generally but it is the compromise that is the point.


No sorry I still don't get it. I sort of understand it if you got money for winning...but I still don't think that is the point of competition. I happen to believe participating in a competition has value regardless of how you place. Thankfully most people see it that way or only a handful of people (the ones who win) would show up. And then I guess eventually the people who come in third would stop coming because it wouldn't be worth the money if they didn't come in first.

j

[twokidsskatemom]

both you and the OP sound full of angst and I don't get it. I get that skating is expensive. I don't get having to justify the expense of a competition by how the child places. I think that's a terrible burden to put on your skater to think it's only worth the money if she places well. If you can't afford to compete

I have no clue how you think I am full of angst. I UNDERSTAND , you dont.Its swell your daughter competed to intermed. I am very happy she didnt care how she placed.My daughter wouldnt either.
But I understand why someone would be unsure on what to do if they dont have the money.Its not about placements, its being realist. IJS first entry is 125.00 on up.There are other things a skater CAN do to keep them in the sport!

[twokidsskatemom]

I kind of understand that you don't want you child to be disappointed with placing low down the rankings and understand that there will be some kids that might tease her or be mean to her about it. It seems to me that the point being is you would rather spend the money on something that will benefit her future as opposed to something that could disappoint or damage you daughters confidence if you have to choose between one or the other. It was the same with me when I used to have horses. I enjoyed going to shows and competing but the money was tight so had to compromise as to where the money went. I was eventually priced out of it but still have friends who do it for a living and they could not justify taking one horse hundreds of miles across country to a show if there is no chance of winning or placing when they could take several to a local show and at least gain some money back that will help pay towards the cost of the next show. I know there is no prize money in skating generally but it is the compromise that is the point.
I would guess that is how the OP feels.

[twokidsskatemom]

No sorry I still don't get it. I sort of understand it if you got money for winning...but I still don't think that is the point of competition. I happen to believe participating in a competition has value regardless of how you place. Thankfully most people see it that way or only a handful of people (the ones who win) would show up. And then I guess eventually the people who come in third would stop coming because it wouldn't be worth the money if they didn't come in first.

j


That is why comps get smaller as a rule the higher up you go.That is why they stop competing and just test, do ice shows ect.
That is why we have both ISI and the new test track. To keep skaters in the sport.
This isnt how we feel, my kids love to compete and placements dont matter. But you dont seem to understand why someone would feel that way as you dont. Others do.
:giveup:

[sk8rmom2006]

Thanks for all your feed back.

One thing I would like to clear that I did not tie the placement to the money. This was the first time I went to this kind of big competition. We went last year as Pre Juv in regional. At that level, and it still as localized, we would not feel the gap. She was not the top. However, you would not feel no hope because every one was so close to each other. However, this time, we can see the big difference. I talked to her coach. She said in Juv, every one started to get seriously. She wanted us to skate at least 15 hours per week in order to stay competitive. We just could not afford that. My desperated feeling is not my dd did not place. It is the realization that no matter how talented she is and how much she wanted to skate, there is no way she can reach her potential because of our financial resources. If she wants to stay competitive and going for national, just hard work + talent, this formula won't work. Money is one of big factors to guaranttee a degree of successful. When you have money, you can focus more on what kids get out from the sports, how they feel about being there. But when money is an issue, we might not even afford for her to go big competition, including regionals. Like this time, we drove, shared with other skater. It still cost me over $70 for gas, $189 for hotel. We booked the cheapest one. Then $24 for practice ice. We could not afford her coach to be there. That saved us a big one. But we did realize how important for coach to be there. And we saw the money spending sign. Plus $50+ for food and $110 for registration fees. We were talking aobut $443 for just 2 days trip. On top of that I found my car brake had to be replaced while we were there. I was able to drag it to our home town then to replace it. But it still cost me over $250. I know I can't say that this $250 had to tie to this particular event. However, I drove this car mostly to take her to the rinks and competition. I can't say that I won't blink when she told me she loved to compete and I would take her any competitions her coache and her wanted to.

2nd, I did not say that I wanted her to quit skating all together. What I wanted he is to quit competitive skating. I did discuss with her about if other principals or test track she would consider. But being in such a rink that most are very good USFSA competitors, she won't do ISI or just for show. She also realized that she could be a very competitive skaters. I talked with her coaches. They all told me she is very talented skaters. But she needs more time to work on both on and off ice. Even her fellow skaters thougt she is talented. At this enviroment, she won't consider to change from USFSA competitor to ISI or test track. It is her not me cared about her placement. As a parent, I don't want her to be upset because of my limitation.

She is 10. But with our financial speed, I don't know how many years she would reach to the level she set the goal. My concern is that current set up structure, she would eventually quit the competitive events. She is type of kids that wants perfection. She won't be happy just be a participant. I do believe some kids are happy just being in the event. But not for her. Right now, we are spending over $30K per year, if she eventually quit competitive, I hope she do it now. It's just how I present the reality and let her mature faster than her age.

3rd, Skating is such a demanding sports. Any tiny changes would affect the result. Like growing in height, changing body. Then she can not swim for the reason I don't know according to her coach that swimming would do no good to skating. She is learning how to play tennis recently. The clinic is very basic. Just 2 hours per week. But because of learning how to swing the rack messed up her jumping arms. So we had to stop her playing tennis. That makes me wonder if she lost other sports opportunities because of her skating.

I understand some other parents think kids wishes first. But when you have unlimited amount of money, that would be easy to do. With limited resources, we just have to live like street people. We need to have roof over our heads and food to mouths first. I can't even find a car pool. Yes, there are at least 2 rinks about 5 miles away from us. But without driver and car, she can not get there. And I just can not find someone would be availalbe to drive her to rink after school. I post request in our church bulletin. I would pay $12 for one ride, still I can not find one. That brought to 4th problem.

I could not quit my job. If I quit my job, dd had to quit competitive skating right away. I could not even have time to find a second job. I work in corporate America. In such economy, lay off is norm news. Every day, we had to take on more responsibilities without getting pay increase. Even without over time, I had to be in train station around 7:30am and at night, after I picked up my dd and would get home around 7:00pm. Recently, many over time night and weekend. Even I would like to find a moom job, I would not have a chance.

When I looked at the top skaters in the competition, including those in our rink. Most mothers either did not work or quit work after their skaters reached to a certain level. I know my DD loves skating. But in her age, 10 yr now, she does not have that kind of self discipline. She could not skate without distraction. I did hire sitter to watch her during summer. However, sitter is still different compared to mom. They can care my dd physically, but not emotionally.

Bottom line, with our maximum investment now, she won't be able to realize her goal. The sad part is that is not because of her, it was because of us, as her parents, we can not provide more resources for her to get where she wants to be. With this clear picture, I would like her to quit competitive skating. She can skate, but just not competitive track. Or she can do other sports that won't put so much stress in our family. There are a few skaters that we knew that their families broke apart because of skating. We won't want to go to that part. Family is more important than skating to me. I know some of you might not agree with me in this. We know a couple of skaters families live far apart. Dads work and make the money. Moms rent places and live with their skaters so that they can train with the best coaches and facilities. This won't be the picture for my family. My husband is very traditional man. He wants our family together, having dinner, having activities together, especially during holiday. He did not treat family living apart as sacrifice. That is against his philosophy. He can work very hard for the family. But to him, family means together.

It seems there is no butter cut way to get her our of competitive skating now. I will continue to talk to her about our financial situation and present her other activities. After this year regional, hopefully she would realize the limitation of her world.

[Skittl1321]

It's so sad to read your posts- clearly it's a money issue, which is so frustrating, because I know you want to give your daughter the best opportunities.

I wanted to echo previous posters thoughts on synchro. At the highest levels, synchro is going to be as expensive, but on a lower level team, or an open team, it won't be nearly as expensive. It will give her a reason to skate, she'll have to continue MITF, and it will be necessarily to do some freestyle work- which will allow her to continue skating in what seems to be an elite environment, but won't required nearly as many hours drilling double axels, or level 4 spins, etc. At the junior senior level, synchro skating elite skating like any other discipline. But there are other levels out there that can be fun, challenging, and less expensive- the levels don't seem to get as competitive as quickly as singles.

(Also, I know you don't want her in ISI, but if there is an ISI synchro team, I'd consider it. About half of the division we skated against at ISI nationals were registered USFS teams.)

[isakswings]

Bottom line, with our maximum investment now, she won't be able to realize her goal. The sad part is that is not because of her, it was because of us, as her parents, we can not provide more resources for her to get where she wants to be. With this clear picture, I would like her to quit competitive skating. She can skate, but just not competitive track. Or she can do other sports that won't put so much stress in our family. .....After this year regional, hopefully she would realize the limitation of her world.


My daughter is also 10, but she is way below your dd's level, so for us, we are just begining to feel the costs of skating. Anyway... I can understand how you feel because I fear that is where we will be soon enough! Good luck!

[Tennisany1]

.... She is type of kids that wants perfection. She won't be happy just be a participant. I do believe some kids are happy just being in the event. But not for her. Right now, we are spending over $30K per year, if she eventually quit competitive, I hope she do it now. It's just how I present the reality and let her mature faster than her age.

3rd, Skating is such a demanding sports. Any tiny changes would affect the result. Like growing in height, changing body. Then she can not swim for the reason I don't know according to her coach that swimming would do no good to skating. She is learning how to play tennis recently. The clinic is very basic. Just 2 hours per week. But because of learning how to swing the rack messed up her jumping arms. So we had to stop her playing tennis. That makes me wonder if she lost other sports opportunities because of her skating.
...


I was just sittting in traffic on the way home, and I started to think about your situation. A couple of things occurred to me.

First, I would really question the limitation on other sports. Most of the high performance kids (competing at the national level) at our club play other sports recreationally. In fact I have heard that Patrick Chan is a great tennis player. Sure, swimming right before going on the ice isn't a great idea, but to restrict all swimming and tennis seems a bit odd to me. Perhaps her coach is more concerned with other sports competing for your dd's time and your money? If so, she should be up front about it.

Second, you say you are currently spending about $2500 per month on skating. If that is what you can afford, how about having your daughter do the budgeting? A 10 year old is old enough to learn basic budgeting skills. You could sit down with her and help her map out the costs for the competitions, new skates, and costumes (have her research various options because you can have beautiful costumes quite reasonably.) She would then know how much she can spend on ice time, lessons, ballet etc. She can then make her choices. You may find that she uses her time more effectively when she knows what it costs. She may also make different choices with regard to costumes, skate guards (the old one will suddenly be fine on her new skates :P) etc.

Some people will say she is not old enough, but from grade 2 on, my kids had to budget their own school supply money. I gave them X dollars for the year and they had to make sure they had all their supplies. Left over money was theirs to spend as they like on our summer vacation. It was amazing how old paints, pencil crayons, rulers, and boxes were suddenly fine for another year!

Finally, don't be too hard on yourself. Anyone spending $30,000 per year on skating is not depriving their child! Remember, no matter how much money you spend, there is no guarantee she will ever get beyond Regionals. I have seen lots of "talented" 10 year olds stall by the time they are 13. The up side is, if you get her budgeting now, even if she doesn't make it big in skating, she will have learned a much more valuable tool that will serve her well for the rest of her life.

[sk8lady]

But how does the KID feel? What will make her happy? We take kids to hockey tournaments every year. Some years they do okay. Some years they get destroyed. We stay in a hotel. The kids swim in the pool. They run up and down the halls with us chasing them telling them to be quiet. They have a great time. They care about how they did in the actual standings for about five seconds. If anyone moans about how they did it's parents or coaches. Everyone likes to win but as long as they're not getting crushed (we DO still remember the game they lost 22-0...oh, Canada!!!) they take away some good memories even if they don't get a trophy or a ribbon. If that's not worth it to the parent who's footing the bill, then they have to tell the kid that they're not good enough to justify spending the money, although that seems a pretty harsh road to take with a 13 year old.

[jskater49]

That is why comps get smaller as a rule the higher up you go.That is why they stop competing and just test, do ice shows ect.
That is why we have both ISI and the new test track. To keep skaters in the sport.
This isnt how we feel, my kids love to compete and placements dont matter. But you dont seem to understand why someone would feel that way as you dont. Others do.
:giveup:

Well all I know is that at Regionals last year the intermediate groups started at 8 am and were not finished until 7 that evening. I'm pretty sure most of those kids knew they had little chance of even making it to the finals. But they still come.

No, I don't understand, nor do I sympathize. Far worse problems in the world to loose sleep over.

j

[Tennisany1]

But how does the KID feel? What will make her happy? We take kids to hockey tournaments every year. Some years they do okay. Some years they get destroyed. We stay in a hotel. The kids swim in the pool. They run up and down the halls with us chasing them telling them to be quiet. They have a great time. They care about how they did in the actual standings for about five seconds. If anyone moans about how they did it's parents or coaches. Everyone likes to win but as long as they're not getting crushed (we DO still remember the game they lost 22-0...oh, Canada!!!) they take away some good memories even if they don't get a trophy or a ribbon. If that's not worth it to the parent who's footing the bill, then they have to tell the kid that they're not good enough to justify spending the money, although that seems a pretty harsh road to take with a 13 year old.

This is a very good point. It seems to me with skating that we tend to get too caught up in the "are they going to make it" stuff and forget to focus and the fun and learning that is happening right now - regardless of whether or not they make it. (And let's face it, 99.9% of them won't ever get to Nationals let alone Worlds!)

I also maintain the a child learns way more by placing last than placing first, and while you wouldn't want a child to always come last, every person should at least once in their life - it keeps things in perspective.

[twokidsskatemom]

Well all I know is that at Regionals last year the intermediate groups started at 8 am and were not finished until 7 that evening. I'm pretty sure most of those kids knew they had little chance of even making it to the finals. But they still come.

No, I don't understand, nor do I sympathize. Far worse problems in the world to loose sleep over.

j
I have no idea why you like to argue with me. People are allowed to feel they way they do, and it really doesnt matter if you feel the way they do or not.They dont need your permisssion. She came here for some words of advice.
yes I am sure regionals, the groups are big But for the most part , at most comps, the higher you do the less skaters you have.Skaters go to regionals because they can.
If you had a skater that was told you have talent but you need to do more and you couldnt, maybe you would understand how the OP feels. You dont and you dont.:giveup:

[BuggieMom]

No, I don't understand, nor do I sympathize. Far worse problems in the world to loose sleep over.
Wow...kinda harsh words there, IMHO! There may be WORSE problems in the world, but in the OP's world, it is a concern for her, and it is valid.

I understand, and I sympathize. Unfortunately, I have no answers. I face the same $$ crunches, spending vs. "talent", etc. My concern is not that my dd "makes it" as in going to the Olympics, but whether she will "make it" to where she feels she wants to go in this sport, and that doesn't mean where I want her to go. The Nats or Olys aren't the only worthy goal, and if her only goal would be getting out of regionals one year, I would like to be able, financially and otherwise, to make that happen. Looking seriously at your finances is a very responsible, realistic thing to do. Knowing how much some parents spend on their kid's skating, I KNOW, at this point, there is NO WAY we would be able to do that, whether my dd was oozing talent or not. It is heart wrenching to want to give your kid every opportunity, whether it is skating or whatever, and know that really, you can't. I have had to tell my dd "no" to many things because of money. It stinks, and it hurts me inside. I hope you find your answers. It is a very tough situation.

[sk8rmom2006]

I have to say that some of you seemed like missed my point of original post.

I did not mean to pull my kid completely out of skate because of placement. I don't think any of parents in this thread here wanted to do that. I think we should put the argument that I don't want my DD skate becaue of her placement aside because this is not what I talked about. That is just simply not true. Let's put this way, I can continue to support her skating by spending 2 hours ice time and 30 min private lesson per week. I can justify that expenses just to keep her in skating. However, my problem here is if I only do so, she would lost interest in skating right away. She likes to compete in USFSA track. She had been there. This is like one way journey to her. Not for me. If at this moment, she realized that she could not do better. I think it would be easier for her to sit back and change to ISI or test track. Well, right now, she feels if she works harder and has more time to train, she could be very competitive. So my 1st problem is if I scale back and like some of you suggest that I will tell her we can only support her skate during the weekend, how can I keep her staying skating without defeated feelings?

Yes, nobody knows what is his/her potential until he or she is there. I know she will not even be a regional champion material. I just don't see she can be in national team one day. But she is a decent skater at her level and at this moment. If she gets more ice times and working with coach, or even we can afford to have her coach there in a big competition, I am sure she would get FAIR Chance. Right now, I just don't feel like she would get FAIR Chance because we just can't afford it. I don't blame any parents that could afford unlimited amount of resources. I just feel sad and guilt for my self. She won't even have a chance to get to her potential because of my financial ability!

It is true that spending $70K + won't make anybody be Elite skaters. However, I did not see any elite skaters only spent $30K per year for their training. Funding from USFSA is limited, last time I checked, got the information was $15K from USFSA for Envolope A memeber. That is what made me lost hope. I knew I will never be able to foot that kind of bills. So here is the truth, I can be very happy for her to spend less than $2000 per year in her skating. I have no problem what her placement is, even she will never place at all. However, I can not justify that with spending $30K+ per year, and knowing she will never make out of this sport eventually. I would like to ask how much they spent for their one kid each year in sport, those who said they had never have problem with their kids placement in sport. I would also like to know how long they had been spending like that? How are their families? I know a handful of skaters families torn apart because of skating, time and money.

So my key point is if you could not afford to pay $70K+ per year for your kid training in the foresee future (that is not too far away), you might just well scale back to the level everybody feels no pain no scratch. Even your kids are competitive, you should keep them in test track or ISI, never put their feet in the competitive water. Then everybody will not be disappointed.

Conclusion, USFSA competitive track will never be a popular sport. If you don't have enormous amount of money and time, you are excluded. If you have multi kids in your family, if you want to provide each kid have fair chance, your are excluded. If husband and wife are not in the same boat, sacrifying everything for skating, you are excluded. And now I make a peace with my decision - I will pull my dd out of her competitive skating career while her career path is still going upward. She is upset and I will regret that my decision might break her dream. But I suck it because I knew I was excluded from all criteria. Competitive skating is just not for her, not because of her ability, it is our family. I think everybody will be fine, will eventually grow out of this sad shadow. But she has nothing to lose except one of her dreams. Good thing is now it is still early, she is 10. She still has other dreams, and she can be good at them. More importantly, she still has time and chances to make her other dreams come true.

ETA, just wondering, if spending $70K+ per year, that is after tax money. That means at least one parent had to make $100+ annual salary. Then one parent had to be with skater all the time. That meant one parent had to earn over $150+ per year to keep a family float. The family size we are talking about is two parent with one kid. If two kids, and the other kid happened to be in the competitive skating too. Then one parent had to be at least making over $200K per year. That comes to my question, how many family with one parent making $200K per year? If not, how hese families foot their skating bills? I heard about mortgage house. With current housing market, how much money you can cash out from your house? And how many times can you cash out from your house? What about those who don't own the house?

[sk8tmum]

Question to OP:

You say that if your DD doesn't do the USFSA track, she will lose interest in skating. Now, that worries me. The kids who love to skate will skate in whatever venue they can, with whatever skates they can get, and do it for the sheer joy of skating. Does your DD love to skate, or does she love to compete at an elite level in a sport?

If it's the latter, then, maybe there is something else she could pursue that is less expensive. She's very young to be totally focussed on one sport ... If she's talented at skating, she is likely talented at another sport; athletic ability is athletic ability. Any thoughts?

If it's the former, then, I hope that she can seize the opportunities to skate and excel at whatever level you can afford, and she keeps the joy of skating for skating itself. The kids who love to skate are the ones who stay in it, and persevere and grow mentally and physically by the benefits of working, acheiving, and simply "doing" what they love to do. So few kids get to the elite level ... but, the sport gives back so much to all of them, even those who just work away at the lower levels and succeed where and when they can, as is true in so many sports.

[sk8tegirl06]

I have to agree with sk8tmum. If not competing will crush her that badly, then I think there are other things going on. Sure competing is fun and exciting, but without the joy and passion for what you are doing then it becomes work and not enjoyment.



Conclusion, USFSA competitive track will never be a popular sport. ETA, just wondering, if spending $70K+ per year, that is after tax money. That means at least one parent had to make $100+ annual salary. Then one parent had to be with skater all the time. That meant one parent had to earn over $150+ per year to keep a family float. The family size we are talking about is two parent with one kid. If two kids, and the other kid happened to be in the competitive skating too. Then one parent had to be at least making over $200K per year. That comes to my question, how many family with one parent making $200K per year? If not, how hese families foot their skating bills? I heard about mortgage house. With current housing market, how much money you can cash out from your house? And how many times can you cash out from your house? What about those who don't own the house?

I really hope you don't mean the new competitive test track division. In my first competition, there were 9 girls in pre-preliminary test track. Sure it doesn't sound like a lot when you are faced with 10-12 hours of juvenile/intermediate competition. But there was enough interest that at the same competition, one rink was dedicated mainly to test track events.

I want to know who is spending $70K a year. :roll: I skate and work at UD during the school year. There are kids making junior nationals that don't spend nearly that much money on skating. That is a seriously obscene amount of money. The only family I know of that might come close to spending $70K per year also has 4 kids in skating.

[Query]

A gal once explained to me that ladies don't usually want solutions to problems. They want empathy.

So, you and your children have our empathy, sympathy and our best wishes. We hope you find ways to have fun that don't strain your personal and financial resources.

We agree the world is completely unfair. You can still be a world class parent, even if your daughter can't afford to be a world class skater.

[sk8rmom2006]

A gal once explained to me that ladies don't usually want solutions to problems. They want empathy.

So, you and your children have our empathy, sympathy and our best wishes. We hope you find ways to have fun that don't strain your personal and financial resources. .

Hmm, interesting comments. I never thought I came here to get empathy. I don't need it, neither do my children. If you read my last post, I made it clear that I made a peace with our decision. I thought while I was starting this thread, I was in the path trying to figure out what to do next. In this process, I thought I would get some input from parents here. I thought parents here have similar background, with skating kids. I was more searching for solution, rather than empathy. While reading all these response posts, I got my solution and I am happy with that. Each family and each person is different. I don't need anyone to approve my decision, neither need the empathy to affirm my decision. If someone's suggestions were good for our situation, I would take it and be very thankful. If not fitting our situation, I would be still grateful for your time and thoughts.


We agree the world is completely unfair. You can still be a world class parent, even if your daughter can't afford to be a world class skater.

Yes, the world is completely unfair. That is why we never dream to live in million dollars house because we know from beginning that we can not afford that and be very happy living where we are now. It can also perceive not fair that some people have talents in some areas, while others not. Well, my mistake is not I did not know the unfairness is norm in this world. My mistake rather is I thought skating is not much different from other sports, like track, like gymnastics or baseball or basket balls, or even golf. Hard work and talents would be major parts. There is money part, but it won't have such big impact in such early stage for an athlete as skater. I disappointed myself because the mistake I made for being in it (skating) without really understanding it. Again, after talking to skaters parents and reading posts in various skating forum, I came to my conclusion and decision.

Oh, no, I never want to be a world class parent. I don't live to be someone in other people's eyes. I live to be a good parent of my children. My job as a parent is to protect my kids and teach them the skills to survive in this tough world and still be a nice and sensible person. Yes, I meant competitive USFSA, not the competitive track. We now realize that our money will not to get my DD to go where she wants to be. This sport is not meant for her. I just want my dd happy and move on with her life. If she can stick to skate without being competitive, good for her and fine with us. If she choose other sports, fine with us. Like one post said, she is very athletic, she has no problem picking up other sports.

The difficult part for me now is to find out the way to tell her our decision. Again, I am NOT looking for empathy, I am looking for suggesions from skillful and experienced parents. I don't want our decision tramatize her. I am also working with her therapist to figure out the way to help her getting thru this transition smoothly. Any parents with such experience all welcome to give me the suggestions.

Oh, BTW, here is the $75K came from:
Daily
Private lesson 95.00
ice time 60.00
Daily Total 155.00
10 months Total 37,200.00

Weekly
ballet 135.00
off ice 150.00
Weekly Total 285.00
10 months Total 11,400.00

Boots & Blades 2,600.00
Dresses 1,000.00
"Competition
Travel & room & board" 9,850.00
Private school 3,000.00
Rent apartment 10,200.00

Yearly Total 75,250.00

This is for Juv level national skater.

[Skittl1321]

I don't doubt the budget you posted but OMG! Where is she skating that she spends $60 a day on ice time alone?


And how much ballet does she take? When I was doing ballet, taking 3 90 minute classes a week it cost me less than $200 for 8 weeks tuition. This was at an academy that routinely produced professional dancers.

This has to be an example of the high end of money spent. I don't think it's at all the norm.
*faints at the thought of that much money spent*


Are private school and apartment rent really skating expenses?

[sk8tegirl06]

Are private school and apartment rent really skating expenses?

I have to agree with this quote. Why is sending your kid to private school a skating expense? Save the money and send them to the public school that you already pay taxes on. I guess prices vary wildly depending on what part of the country you are in. $60/day on ice would get you 5 sessions a day around here. Seriously $95/day in lessons?!?! Does the skater practice by themself at all? The ballet and off-ice is insane. You can buy a pilates DVD. Gosh I know competitions are expensive, but how many competitions is the skater doing per year to cost nearly $10K? The dresses are another thing. I know they will get more expensive as you go up the levels, but I have never bought a new dress. Sure sparkles and glitter are fun, but they don't win you competitions.

Maybe I'm only a naive beginner skater, but I'm also in college paying for about 99% of my own skating. If you are content with your decision then good luck to you and your daughter. If you are looking for advice to talk to your daughter, I would simply be honest with her and break down the budget as much as you can in 10 year old terms. She must know that things are expensive, but perhaps she doesn't realize how much.

[icedancer2]

I can relate to your thread not because I am a skating parent - I don't even have children, BUT when I was a teenager, my parents made the decision to discontinue my skating - without really consulting me or giving me an alternative except to say that I would get to take more horseback-riding lessons (which actually never materialized) - I had always thought it was because they couldn't afford it and that I hadn't performed well enough for them to consider continuing to pay for a sport that I wasn't excelling at (at that time there was less emphasis on competiting and more emphasis on passing tests (and since I hadn't passed any tests in a long time I guess they figured I was never going to excel at all in this sport).

Their decision was devastating to me and I probably should have been in therapy for years over it - I am glad that you are going to try to work it out with her daughter so that she can continue to skate at some level - my situation was in the '60s and obviously the opportunities (as well as approaches to parenting) were very different than they are now. I did skate in high school - but it was more like going to the local rink (not the training rink) in the evenings to skate at Public sessions where I mostly hung out with my friends, met boys and did some showing-off because I was basically the only person out there who could skate.

Anyway, kudos to you for coming to a conscious decision regarding your daughter's talents, abilities and desire to continue to skate (if that's what she wants) -

Now I skate, by the way, and have found out that I'm really not that bad!

[sk8rmom2006]

Their decision was devastating to me ...
Anyway, kudos to you for coming to a conscious decision regarding your daughter's talents, abilities and desire to continue to skate (if that's what she wants) -

Now I skate, by the way, and have found out that I'm really not that bad!

Your feeling is just what I was afraid of my dd. She is so stubborn and wants to be good at things she like. If she had been not doing well, it would be easier for her to accept it. She is now in the process going up. It would be hard for her to understand. That is why I need her therapist to be involved.

I am so glad that you are still skating. Skating now would mean different thing to you compared when you were young, I guess.

I don't think everyone spent $70K in skating, just like not every skater will be elite skaters. I thought Sk8tegirl06 wanted to know where $70K came from. That was why I laid out here. For me, we will never be able to do that.

Our rink, with contract, ice time is $15/hour, so she skates 4 hours, that is where $60/day came from.

Her coach charges $95 per hour. She has one hour private lesson per day, 6 days per week. My dd coach does not charge that much. We have been approached by the other skater's coach. But we knew we could not afford it, we declined it.

She goes almost all local competitions (within 3 hours drive). She brought her coach each time she went to compete. She also did big competitions 5 - 6 times a year. Big means they have to travel by air or have to drive over 6 hours. They have to pay not only their own room and board, they have to pay coach room and board, gas and meals. They have to purchase practice ice time, which is much expensive compared even to our rink. On top of it, she had to take more lessons a day from her coach while she is there. The competitions normally have qualify round, final round. There is always a few days gap between qualify round and final round. So they almost have to be there a week for big competition.

She went to private school because they allowed her to have flexible time. That is why she can train so many hours per day. I think that private school fees is cheap. If she goes to higher grade, it will be more expensive, at least from our area. I thought it is very common for skaters to be homeschoolers. But my question is how can kids learn really solid chemistry, physics and biologist, etc without going to lab?

Ballet, she is taking small group lessons and private lessons from instructor came to our rink. That is why it is more expensive than the professional dancing school. She did group off ice and have private personal trainer to improve her strength so that she could be better in jumps. That is why her off ice is so expensive. Group ice here cost $25 per session, and $75 for private personal trainer.

Rent, since they were out of town, about 3 hours away from our rink. In order to train with her coach, her mom rent an apartment close to the rink and stay there with her during the week. Then they might go back to their own house once in a while.

Did we spend all these items? Hell, no. But when I looked at this, I was scared and knew right away that we could not afford that. What we are doing now is max, we don't have any juice to squeeze. I can't afford for my dd to skate more than 2 sessions a day. I can't afford her to have an hour private lesson every day. I can't afford that much ballet and off ice. I can't afford private tutor. That is why we can not keep doing this.

I would like to know how many parents out there would agree to spend $30K a year knowing that their kids will not have a chance to have their dreams become true. Like I said I have no problem to keep spending less than $2000 a year for her skating as her hobby. But sorry, no way for $30K+. For all goods skating can bring to kids, I believe my dd can get it from any other sports which cost way less.

Well, this is just my 2 cent humble opinions. Every body entitles to have his/her opinions. Writing this actually is a way for me to learn and realize what my decision is and where we stand. I would thank this forum to provide me that. Never in a million year, I would come here to get empathy or to get some one to take my opinion.

[sk8tegirl06]

Thank you for laying all the details out there. However, at the same time the skater you described is not your daughter. Your daughter can still succeed in skating without having to compete at such a high level. You came here for solutions and have shot every idea down. Skaters can skip competing completely and just aim for testing their Golds. You can compete test track which seems like the perfect answer for this particular situation. Only you know your daughter and what would be best for her. I wish you luck with whatever happens.

[Query]

>here is the $75K came from:
>Daily
>Private lesson 95.00

Since you don't want empathy, I’ll give you a low ball analysis.

Bear in mind I've never been good enough to compete at a level that wouldn't be laughable, and am just applying observation and logic.

I don't know any current national level skaters well enough to guess their expenses. So far she is only a low regional level skater, and only a very few make it past regionals, so let's assume she doesn’t get to national level comps.

[It's different for adults. Apparently almost anyone can go to adult nationals.]

From what I've seen, relatively few of even the best take private skate lessons every day. Let's say 1-2 times a week, and she doesn't need the most expensive coaches. Say, $70-$80/week for an hour total/week. Add in one or two high level group lessons/week (Lots of people call dedicated classes on edges, power skating, spinning, or jumping "supervised practice time", and it provides a time to socialize with other skaters), for another $30/week or so.

BTW, near me there is a skating school that costs about $50/week (I think) for serious group lessons a couple hours/day or so, including on and off ice training, plus kids are expected to take at least one private lesson / week from them. They seem to cover most of the bases. [WARNING: They require strong self discipline, don't accept everyone, and drop some students, and are a bit controversial.]

http://www.wisa.us

That particular skating school would not be ideal for your daughter, because of the emphasis on ice dance training, though they do some freestyle too. Maybe there is something similar in rinks near you. (I've wished I was young and good enough to try it.) I notice they encourage the girls to buy at least one $400 or more dress / year, and one of the coaches gives the dressmaker guidance, and they expect kids to travel to competitions. (They go in groups, so carpooling should be easy.)

Let us add another $100-200/year to pay your coach for choreography and music, which you left out. (It would be nice if she could do her own, but not all coaches will let her, and she would have to learn the very complex USFSA rules, and get artistic guidance.)

>ice time 60.00

Like I said, pick your rink and your time (eventually she will drive herself), join one or more of the $50 - $100/year public session rinks that exist near Chicago - your hometown, right? Even near DC, there is a $180/[10 month]year one (if you are a certain town resident, which makes sense to save drive costs – else $300/year) that has 3-4 sessions/day on most weekdays, most of which have only a few, and there is one somewhat more expensive that has one/day. Cost insignificant. Plus a few (non-busy) freestyles/week so she can run complete programs. Say, $30/week.

>Weekly
>ballet 135.00
>off ice 150.00

Other people have already covered this. Make it $15-20/week for ballet. Even private health clubs come down an order of magnitude or more in price if you negotiate (Never believe published health club prices), especially if you call yourself a student. Or she can join YMCA, or a college facility. A few hundred $/year. I belong to a $300/year municipal facility, with pool and hot tub and weight machines, about 10 minutes drive from my home.

Anyone disciplined enough to be a high level skater doesn’t need many classes for off-ice training. Maybe you can skip most off-ice training costs altogether, after she gets the hang of what they teach in lessons.

In fact, DVDs exist for ballet training too, though part of the benefit may be getting comments from the instructor.

>Boots & Blades 2,600.00

No way. Not if the bootfitter know what he/she is doing, and she takes good care of her gear. Even many top rank freestylers don’t buy more than once a year, some fewer, if they do everything right. Maybe twice / year if she prefers a loose fit above the ankle, as many coach's tell people to do. She should learn how to modify her boot fit herself to take care of the growth that occurs over that period.

Used boots are very cheap. I have successfully modified used boots to fit better than my custom fit boots - but it took quite some time to learn how to do. (I started with low level used boots, which didn't do what I needed, so I'm back to the ill fit customs.) If you don't want to spend the time, avoid the used boot route, unless you find some that come close to fitting already.

Most people can get by with off-the-rack boots, which probably won't require much more modification than customs, given the imprecision to which customs are made.

Blades you can sharpen yourself, and she can do it herself when she is a little older. That has other benefits, because it drops problems when she travels.

Since we assume she won't go to nationals, ignore airfare.

>Dresses 1,000.00

I know nothing of dresses. Judges I have talked to like to claim fancy dresses aren’t that important. Though I admit it seems to be part of what girls think is fun about skating. There are sources of good used dresses that are good enough. Or if your girl learns to make her own, she can economize more, and make money from selling to others on the side.

>Travel & room & board" 9,850.00

You are feeding her anyway. She and you can camp, and cook. Healthier food that way anyway. (BTW, since you aren’t camping for camping’s sake, car camping is fine.) May get cheaper when she learns to drive herself to comps, if you trust her to be alone.

Driving her daily to the rink, etc. is a problem – that can be reduced if you carpool with other skaters. Maybe you can carpool to comps too. Obviously you need to find carpool partners you trust to take care of your child.

>Private school 3,000.00

Yes, if she wants to take advantage of the best non-busy public session times, she must drop out of public school and have the discipline to do it by mostly on-line correspondence school (I assume you will keep your job so you won’t have time to home school). I haven’t checked them all, but http://www.laurelsprings.com charges

Elementary and Junior High
Grade K-3 $1,900 / year
Grade 4-6 $2,200 / year
Grade 7-8 $2,500 / year
Standard High School Course:$950 / year
[High School] Honors, Lab or Foreign Language Course: $1,150 / year
[High School] Advanced Placement (AP) Course: $1,500 / year

There must be cheaper places – it’s just the only one I know of.

Of course, school isn't just a place to learn. She may need other chances to socialize.

>Rent apartment 10,200.00

Why should she leave home? Doesn’t Chicago have some pretty good coaches? If she has to move, and it seems too early for that, she may be safer in a group home. Say, $300-600/month, depending on location.

You have left out medical costs. On average serious athletes get hurt more than couch potatoes. The difference is very difficult to estimate, and varies a lot, but let us say $500-$1000 / year. If it gets much greater, it is time for her to replace skating with knitting.

Serious skating may STILL too much time and money for any normal family. But if you drop it down to basics, it isn’t quite as bad as you estimate.

Now, when your other child decides on hockey or basketball or soccer or skydiving, it gets more fun.

[twokidsskatemom]

>here is the $75K came from:
>Daily
>Private lesson 95.00

Since you don't want empathy, I’ll give you a low ball analysis.

Bear in mind I've never been good enough to compete at a level that wouldn't be laughable, and am just applying observation and logic.

I don't know any current national level skaters well enough to guess their expenses. So far she is only a low regional level skater, and only a very few make it past regionals, so let's assume she doesn’t get to national level comps.

[It's different for adults. Apparently almost anyone can go to adult nationals.]

From what I've seen, relatively few of even the best take private skate lessons every day. Let's say 1-2 times a week, and she doesn't need the most expensive coaches. Say, $70-$80/week for an hour total/week. Add in one or two high level group lessons/week (Lots of people call dedicated classes on edges, power skating, spinning, or jumping "supervised practice time", and it provides a time to socialize with other skaters), for another $30/week or so.

BTW, near me there is a skating school that costs about $50/kid/week (I think) for serious group lessons a couple hours/day or so, including on and off ice training, plus kids are expected to take at least one private lesson / week from them. That particular academy only accepts about 20% of female applicants (easier for males, because they do a lot of dance/pairs training as couples), last I knew. If you read the web page

http://www.wisa.us

it sounds pretty serious. They call it a scholarship program (and have dropped students, causing some unhappiness), though I suspect they do economically OK. Maybe there is something similar in rinks near you.

Let us add another $100-200/year to pay your coach for choreography and music, which you left out. (It would be nice if she could do her own, but not all coaches will let her, and she would have to learn the very complex USFSA rules, and get artistic guidance.)

>ice time 60.00

Like I said, pick your rink and your time (eventually she will drive herself), join one or more of the $50 - $100/year public session rinks that exist near Chicago - your hometown, right? Even near DC, there is a $180/[10 month]year one (if you are a certain town resident, which makes sense to save drive costs – else $300/year) that has 3-4 sessions/day on most weekdays, most of which have only a few, and there is one somewhat more expensive that has one/day. Cost insignificant. Plus a few (non-busy) freestyles/week so she can run complete programs. Say, $30/week.

>Weekly
>ballet 135.00
>off ice 150.00

Other people have already covered this. Make it $15-20/week for ballet. Even private health clubs come down an order of magnitude or more in price if you negotiate (Never believe published health club prices), especially if you call yourself a student. Or she can join YMCA, or a college facility. A few hundred $/year. I belong to a $300/year facility near a big city, though it is a 10 minutes drive from my home.

Anyone disciplined enough to be a high level skater doesn’t need many classes for off-ice training. Maybe you can skip most off-ice training costs altogether, after she gets the hang of what they teach in lessons.

In fact, DVDs exist for ballet training too, though part of the benefit may be getting comments from the instructor.

>Boots & Blades 2,600.00

No way. Not if the bootfitter know what he/she is doing, and she takes good care of her gear. Even many top rank freestylers don’t buy more than once a year, some fewer, if they do everything right. Maybe twice / year if she prefers a loose fit above the ankle, as many coach's tell people to do. She should learn how to modify her boot fit herself to take care of the growth that occurs over that period.

Blades she can definitely sharpen herself. That has other benefits, because it drops problems when she travels.

Since we assume she won't go to nationals, ignore airfare.

>Dresses 1,000.00

I know nothing of dresses. Judges I have talked to like to claim fancy dresses aren’t that important. Though I admit it seems to be part of what girls think is fun about skating. There are sources of good used dresses that are good enough. Or if your girl learns to make her own, she can economize more, and make money from selling to others on the side.

>Travel & room & board" 9,850.00

You are feeding her anyway. She and you can camp, and cook. Healthier food that way anyway. (BTW, since you aren’t camping for camping’s sake, car camping is fine.) May get cheaper when she learns to drive, if you trust her to be alone.

Driving her daily to the rink, etc. is a problem – that can be reduced if you carpool with other skaters.

>Private school 3,000.00

Yes, if she wants to take advantage of the best non-busy public session times, she must drop out of public school and have the discipline to do it by mostly on-line correspondence school (I assume you will keep your job so you won’t have time to home school). I haven’t checked them all, but http://www.laurelsprings.com charges

Elementary and Junior High
Grade K-3 $1,900 / year
Grade 4-6 $2,200 / year
Grade 7-8 $2,500 / year
Standard High School Course:$950 / year
[High School] Honors, Lab or Foreign Language Course: $1,150 / year
[High School] Advanced Placement (AP) Course: $1,500 / year

There must be cheaper places – it’s just the only one I know of.

Of course, school isn't just a place to learn. She may need other chances to socialize.

>Rent apartment 10,200.00

Why should she leave home? Doesn’t Chicago have some pretty good coaches? If she has to move, and it seems too early for that, she may be safer in a group home. Say, $300-600/month, depending on location.

You have left out medical costs. On average serious athletes get hurt more than couch potatoes. The difference is very difficult to estimate, and varies a lot, but let us say $500-$1000 / year. If it gets much greater, it is time for her to replace skating with knitting.

Serious skating may STILL too much time and money for any normal family. But if you drop it down to basics, it isn’t quite as bad as you estimate.

Now, when your other child decides on hockey or basketball or soccer or skydiving, it gets more fun.

I am not even sure if I should reply, but afew things you said were wrong so I wanted to correct them.I am not sure if you are teasing or not in your answer.
Most skaters are juv level that do well have at least one lesson a day IF not more.. All the kids we know that are novice or above have a few lesson a day, not one or two a week.My daughter competes with kids that have a 45 minute lesson daily, my daughter has two 30 min a week.
Even if your skater wasnt going anywhere, I dont see many with one lesson a week.Would take forever if you only had one a week.
That doesnt mean I agree but that is how it is.
Why would you think a 10 year old could sharpen skates?
Kids grow and SOME kids need two pair of boots per year.
ALL high level skaters I know do off ice, why would you think if you are high level you dont need it?They all do classes daily. Go to any training center and ask those kids.
I do know some high level skaters, and I know what they spend. Maybe you can cut here and there, but not much.
I hope you were teasing about car camping ect. I dont think me and my two skaters would get any sleep in a car for a week!:o

[Query]

>Most skaters are juv level that do well have at least
>one lesson a day IF not more..

I've seen a few kids that were at least trying triple jumps that take once or twice a week. I don't really know what's typical.

But remember, I'm assuming one recognizes national level competition is out of most people's league, and that I said it was a lowball estimate. Of course kids who have a coach with them everytime they get on the ice have an advantage.

>Why would you think a 10 year old could sharpen skates?

I changed my mind on that. Blades are sharp. But parents could do it.

>Kids grow and SOME kids need two pair of boots per year.

Some growth can be taken care of by appropriate modification - you can stretch up to about .5 - 1 size, almost anywhere on the boot, and play with insoles and other techniques to get a bit more. It takes knowledge and time.

Even if you need two, and you need customs, $2600/year is at the high end. OK, I live close enough to Klingbeil to drive there, and could get $650 custom boots that way, though at this point I probably know enough to do as well with stock boots. I've accepted using the interchangeable blade system, so my blades are relatively cheap in the long run.

Hmmm. Maybe interchangeable blades aren't reasonable if you keep outgrowing them, because the Jackson chasis is overpriced. But, still, some blades are cheaper than others. Not everyone needs $400 blades. Of course, coaches advocate the blades they know, and some of them only know $400 blades.

Hand sharpening doesn't just cut sharpening costs. The slower speed of hand sharpening allows you to reshape the metal more than just grinding it away, which cuts down by at best a factor of 5 or so the amount of metal you need to remove, and thereby increases the life of the blade. Unless you have major nicks, or you outgrow the blades faster than they run out of metal.

>ALL high level skaters I know do off ice

Does that mean they need frequent off-ice lessons? Self discipline means they could learn what to do, and do it. That doesn't mean lessons wouldn't be better - it means that people who have to be cheaper, can.

An off-ice ballet component may be different, if you rely on the instructor to correct errors in form or motion. But the costs the OP listed were very high.

>I hope you were teasing about car camping ect.
>I dont think me and my two skaters would get
>any sleep in a car for a week!

Probably depends on the kids and your vehicle.

"Car camping" sometimes just means you don't worry about weight and bulk.

There are "pop-up" tents that take a few minutes to set up and take down. No self respecting backpacker would accept the extra weight, but they exist. Big propane stoves that won't fit in a backpack are almost as convenient as home ranges. Some campers (I use the term loosely) have been known to take small ovens. If you car camp in a place with electricity, a hot plate and a small toaster oven or microwave might be just barely plausable.

Even so, camping always trades time for money. The kids who can sleep in a hotel 2 minutes from the rink are better off. Though I've wondered about the RVs I've sometimes seen parked behind some ice rinks. (At current gas prices, RVs won't usually be worth it, but it depends on the distance and hotel cost.)

Camping in the snow is harder, more time consuming and less forgiving of error - I've not been able to convince many people to join me on ski trips. And there are places with aggressive large animals (large bears, alligators, crocodiles, cougers, rattlesnakes, some people, etc.) where camping is dangerous). And some people have allergies.

[vesperholly]

First of all, $70K a year is an outrageous figure for skating expenses! Most people don't earn that much a year, let alone spend it on skating.
Did we spend all these items? Hell, no. But when I looked at this, I was scared and knew right away that we could not afford that. What we are doing now is max, we don't have any juice to squeeze. I can't afford for my dd to skate more than 2 sessions a day. I can't afford her to have an hour private lesson every day. I can't afford that much ballet and off ice. I can't afford private tutor. That is why we can not keep doing this.
Most of the kids I skate with - many regional competitors, and some have qualified for Sectionals and/or Junior Nationals - who skate 2 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. I know one girl who skates 4 to 4.5 hours a day, 5 days a week. She didn't make out of Novice qualifying at regionals. Quality, not quantity.
I would like to know how many parents out there would agree to spend $30K a year knowing that their kids will not have a chance to have their dreams become true. Like I said I have no problem to keep spending less than $2000 a year for her skating as her hobby. But sorry, no way for $30K+. For all goods skating can bring to kids, I believe my dd can get it from any other sports which cost way less.
I don't know the particulars of your financial situation, but there are ways to make the sport cheaper. For instance, I scrimp ... a lot: My skating bag is 9 years old. I rarely buy new tights or workout clothes. I buy test/competition dresses from online stores for under $50 and bead them myself. I cut my own competition music. I have traded professional services for dresses and lessons. I've had to quit dance lessons for a few months. I volunteer for my club to earn credits that are deducted from my ice bill. I skate on public sessions that cost 75% less than club ice.

Would I like new clothes, custom dresses, tons of lesson and unlimited ice? Of course - any skater would be crazy not to want those things! Could I fulfill my potential (what a screwy concept) if I had all of these things? Maybe. Or I could spend $100,000 on skating a year and still be terrible. Money is everything and nothing at the same time.

Life isn't fair. I'm not independently wealthy, nor are most skaters, and these are the sacrifices that I make to continue my involvement in the sport I love. You can be successful in skating without spending obscene amounts of money, but it will cost you in other ways. If you don't feel comfortable making sacrifices elsewhere in your life to support your daughter's skating, that's absolutely your choice. It will be hard to explain it to your daughter since she's so young. Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Ice Dancer]

Other skaters skates 15+ hours per week, plue off ice and ballet training, etc. If she can get 6 hours/week during school time, she would be lucky. We could not find someone can drive her on time from her school to the rink. Even in the rink, the freestyle ice only up to 6:00pm, sometimes only up to 5:00pm.

Can I just ask how the bill for ice time and daily private lessons is so high if she is only managing 6 hours a week? Is she spending all of her time in lessons?

[Skittl1321]

never mind...

[sk8tegirl06]

Can I just ask how the bill for ice time and daily private lessons is so high if she is only managing 6 hours a week? Is she spending all of her time in lessons?

I don't think the breakdown of costs was for her daughter. But for another skater in the area, which seems to have scared the family right out of skating. I was curious how you manage to get costs that high and the OP was kind enough to break it down for us.

I am just going to chalk it up to regional differences in expenses. I'm on the east coast. Ice time for me will cost anywhere from $10-12 for a 40-45 minute freestyle session. If you buy a contract it will be less. An hour long lesson from either of my coaches (who both competed on World/Olympic level) will range from $60-69. I could go on, but we already have a 3 page thread going so I'm done.

[Mrs Redboots]

The thing is, of course, are we sure that the skater whose parents are able to spend $70K a year on her skating is ever going to be any good? You can't make a child (or anybody else, for that matter!) good at skating by throwing money at it, and it's really only the dreaded Skating Parents who try.

Most people spend realistically - an hour's practice after school each day, perhaps incorporating a 15-minute lesson during that time when possible. Yes, boots and blades are a major expense and should not be stinted - but you only buy the boot and blade your skater needs as she needs them. You borrow dresses for test and competition, or buy the ones that your friend the Ice Princess has grown out of.

A very great many promising children give up when they hit adolescence, anyway. Or they hit a wall in their skating - and that is the time when coach and parents need to confer to decide whether a bit of pushing from the parents would be productive or otherwise.

We have two teenage skaters who have "hit the wall" - realistically, at their present levels of training, they aren't going to get much better than they are now. One doesn't much care, and is now skating once a week for fun, with her parents' rather reluctant consent; the other does mind - but doesn't have the kind of parents who will push her over the hump! My coach said "From that point of view, if only they could swap parents!"

[Query]

Let me rethink what I said.

Even that $50 or so / week "bargain" from the skating academy (covering on and off ice group lessons and ice time) + $40-80 or so week for one or two private 30 minute lessons + a fairly minimal $1500/year in skates, blades, clothing and equipment + at least $1500 / year in travel + club, test and competition fees (even with carpools) = $7680 - $9760 = much more than the OP is currently spending.

I still think she could still do enough to be fun within the current budget. I assume she already is, if mom makes encouraging noises and doesn't worry about coming in last place in her first regional competition. I assume the girl doesn't emotionally need to win, that she can enjoy what she can do.

There could eventualy be a payout, if she becomes good enough at skating and teaching to be a coach - many earn high 5 to low 6 figure incomes, if they live near the right rinks - not what a doctor, lawyer or management level electrical engineer might make, but with more flexible hours. There are very few athletic activities where that is true.

[sk8lady]

I think that one thing that anyone in the OP's position needs to remember is that your kid is a KID--especially at 10--and will still take many of their cues from their parents. When my kid was 10 and started talking about playing in the NHL, we said, "Honey, did you know that even Coach _____ [that year's coach] didn't play in the NHL or even for a college team? And you know how good HE is. He played through high school." Then we talked about what Coach _____ did for a living and what our kid might want to do when he grew up.

Don't let your kid run the show, but don't stop him or her from doing something if they love it; if some aspect is too expensive, compromise. If they refuse to compromise and want to quit, then you might let them--but it's going to be THEIR decision, so that they won't look back when they're older and say "I loved to skate but my parents made me quit when I was 10."

Don't be afraid to encourage them to do something that others may feel is of lesser quality than what the "best" kids are doing. In hockey, the "elite" competitors play on travel teams. My son played one year of travel. It was a horror show. The parents were mostly lunatics, the kids were mostly badly behaved, and some of the coaches were dysfunctional, emotionally abusive, and to top it off they were crappy skaters. My son hated it and wanted to quit hockey by the end of the year and so did we. We went back to "house" hockey--the "less elite" recreational level-- the next year someplace else and my son had a fabulous time. He loved every second of it and we enjoyed it too, even though some of our friends, including one of his former coaches, could hardly believe he would "give up" playing travel. It was what made our kid happy, even though he wasn't necessarily playing at the highest level his ability would allow. We might be the world's most underachieving family but my feeling is that I want the kid to be as happy and well-adjusted as I can manage. As far as I'm concerned, that's more likely to make him successful than all the expensive equipment, private coaching, super-elite-team playing in the world.

Just my opinion.

[twokidsskatemom]

Let me rethink what I said.

Even that $50 or so / week "bargain" from the skating academy (covering on and off ice group lessons and ice time) + $40-80 or so week for one or two private 30 minute lessons + a fairly minimal $1500/year in skates, blades, clothing and equipment + at least $1500 / year in travel + club, test and competition fees (even with carpools) = $7680 - $9760 = much more than the OP is currently spending.

I still think she could still do enough to be fun within the current budget. I assume she already is, if mom makes encouraging noises and doesn't worry about coming in last place in her first regional competition. I assume the girl doesn't emotionally need to win, that she can enjoy what she can do.

There could eventualy be a payout, if she becomes good enough at skating and teaching to be a coach - many earn high 5 to low 6 figure incomes, if they live near the right rinks - not what a doctor, lawyer or management level electrical engineer might make, but with more flexible hours. There are very few athletic activities where that is true.

I agree that she still can skate with a lower budget. Its not that I agree with the price of things.But I do know that some people do spend that much. I wouldnt let my husband sharpen skates as a way to save money either.
It still goes back to if your child has some talent, what do you do if you just cant afford it? I do understand, and the only answer is focus more on other aspects of skating.
Yes, the skaters I know of at high levels take off ice a few times a week in a class.They dont stop just because they can do the stuff themselves.
being a skating parent isnt easy:o Just do the best you can.My kids know they get two lessons a week.They also know they compete with kids that have more.Its a good life lesson.

[sk8rmom2006]

I don't think the breakdown of costs was for her daughter. But for another skater in the area, which seems to have scared the family right out of skating. I was curious how you manage to get costs that high and the OP was kind enough to break it down for us.

I am just going to chalk it up to regional differences in expenses. I'm on the east coast. Ice time for me will cost anywhere from $10-12 for a 40-45 minute freestyle session. If you buy a contract it will be less. An hour long lesson from either of my coaches (who both competed on World/Olympic level) will range from $60-69. I could go on, but we already have a 3 page thread going so I'm done.

Thank you sk8tegirl06. I know you are done with this thread. I still hope you can get it from me.

No, the cost is not for my dd. This skater is not from IL. They were referred to train with coaches in our rink. The mom stays with skater close to our rink during the week. The dad and older brother, maybe 10 yr? staying back home about 3 hours away from our rink. There is another novice level skater recently just moved to Colorado to train with big name coach. I can't imagin how much they spent on rent and training stuff. The mother is no working just to be with skater. Only father stays put in her hometown to work to provide cash.

No, we don't use her coach, it is too expensive.

No, my dd is not at hit wall stage, acutally, she is in upward stage. But seeing other skaters spending really scared me.

There are 4 rinks close to us. But her coach only goes to current rink. So we have to be there. The price of current rink is in the upside in Chicago area. But we have no choice. Originally, I planned to have her practice in the cheaper rink and have lessons in her current rink. But it is not practically. Because I have to work. I can not find someone to take her to the cheaper rink practicing for one hour and then drive her to her current rink to have a lesson. Even I can find one, I can not afford that. The price in our area to have someone to take kids to the rink (according to other skaters' moms is min. $10 one way for less than 5 miles). That is almost another session of ice time. I called taxi company to quote the price for 8 miles drive, they said $28 one way.:cry:

My dd boots and blades cost me over $1200 because of her weird shape of feet. We tried stock or semi stock boots, she kept having feet problem. What is my choice, to have her ankle constantly hurt and could not skate or to order the custom boots. Her boots is by Ridel. Her first pair boots and blades were rent from the rink. Coaches told me she need to have decent one if she wanted to learn skates. So I bought used one. My dd told me right away she could feel the edges. I don't skate. I can only depend on how she told me and validate it with her coach. The blades might not be a big deal for recreational skating. But for her it is a big deal. Currently she is using paramount. As soon as she had this one on, her coach told me she was impressed with the new blades because how fast her speed improved and higher she jumped! She said she never had a student used this kind of blades. But from now she would recommend to her students. We bought this based on Mr. Edge, who is writing boots and blades articles in Skating magazine. He fitted our dd boots and blades. He would never ask us to go custom if not necessary.

Dress - my dd dress never cost me that much. Her competition dress is hand down from older skaters from her skating school. She went to regional last year for pre juv, I bought her dress $300. This year she still used it. So for two year, it is good price compared to others.

Blade sharpening by hand? My jaw dropped when I read it. If you skate for fun, that might be OK. I never read any articles or any professional said that it is OK for me as parent to sharpen my dd's blades. On the contrary, they alway suggest that we have to go to the place who really knows what he is doing. We had to go to Mr. Edge to sharpen her blades. Sometimes he is out of town or I was busy, we just have her blades (previous Wilson one) sharpened at her rink. It not only would't last long, it affected her spin and jumps because of the quality of the sharpening. Personally, I won't tempt with that over $400 blades by my hand. I don't trust my hand to do sharpening, neither her coach or even my DD.

I think some people keep twisting the issue here. Those who suggested that only skate less than 5 hours a week, taking one lesson a week, having really cheap boots and blades - these are for recreational one. I agree with you totally. If my dd is only doing that level, I don't have problem.

The issue I raised here is it needs enormaous funding to support a competitive skaters. I thought I would get some advise how to keep my dd working towards elite skater level without bankcrupt our family. I agree that throwing money won't make a great skater. Actually, we saw one skater like that in our rink. However, if you won't have solid finance to support skaters, they definitely won't be elite competitive skaters. I wish I would have known that at beginning.

Like boots and blades for example, can she eventually move up level by skating very cheap boots and blades, maybe. But with non fitting boots, she might give up skating a couple years ago. Because no matter how we stretched and pounded the boots, it would not fit her. Last summer, we spent almost one month twisting boots. We event spent money to see foot doctor. He said my dd need customized orthotics. That cost us about $800 for two pairs, one pair for boots, one for her gym shoes. We tried to fit these orthotics to her semi stock boots. It did not really save us any.

To make my question more specific, how to keep skaters to be advanced skaters with less than $5000 annual budget in a both working parents family?

I did not shoot down every suggestion here. But it seems to me other than keeping my dd at non competitive level, she could not excel and become advanced skaters because of my money issue. If anyone can let me know in the real world which skaters only skate 6 hours per week and only hour lesson, with off ice and ballet at home followed by dvd but made it to national? If so, please do share with me. It would really lift my hope and give me a huge encouragement. I can go back to tell my dd face to face that there is hope because it does exist.

[sk8rmom2006]

I agree that she still can skate with a lower budget. Its not that I agree with the price of things.But I do know that some people do spend that much. I wouldnt let my husband sharpen skates as a way to save money either.
It still goes back to if your child has some talent, what do you do if you just cant afford it? I do understand, and the only answer is focus more on other aspects of skating.
Yes, the skaters I know of at high levels take off ice a few times a week in a class.They dont stop just because they can do the stuff themselves.
being a skating parent isnt easy:o Just do the best you can.My kids know they get two lessons a week.They also know they compete with kids that have more.Its a good life lesson.

Well say twokidsskatemom. Thanks for understanding.

[Skittl1321]

Blade sharpening by hand? My jaw dropped when I read it. If you skate for fun, that might be OK. I never read any articles or any professional said that it is OK for me as parent to sharpen my dd's blades. On the contrary, they alway suggest that we have to go to the place who really knows what he is doing. We had to go to Mr. Edge to sharpen her blades. Sometimes he is out of town or I was busy, we just have her blades (previous Wilson one) sharpened at her rink. It not only would't last long, it affected her spin and jumps because of the quality of the sharpening. Personally, I won't tempt with that over $400 blades by my hand. I don't trust my hand to do sharpening, neither her coach or even my DD.



Well most of our jaws dropped when we read that- it wasn't just you. That's not the place to cut the budget, I don't think. (Unless you happen to be an engineer-type person who is very good at that sort of thing.) Besides the equipment to sharpent the blades (though I expect Query is recommending a pro-filer?) would be cost prohibitive.

Keep your daughter in Paramounts the $485 that the highest blade costs is a signifigant savings to the $640 of Gold Seals.

I hope you and your daughter are able to figure something out. $5000 isn't a ton of money in such an expensive sport. But don't compare your budget to someone who lives in a higher cost of living area and is going with the most expensive of everything. She doesn't need private ballet lessons, just some ballet lessons. I honestly wouldn't do them at home, but you could do it to a tape if you needed to.

I think its okay to tell your daughter that being an elite skater isn't something your family can afford. That's just being realistic, and she should be old enough to understand. But let her make the decision to quit skating. I think taking it away would be devestating.

[Mrs Redboots]

The issue I raised here is it needs enormaous funding to support a competitive skaters. I thought I would get some advise how to keep my dd working towards elite skater level without bankcrupt our family. I agree that throwing money won't make a great skater. Actually, we saw one skater like that in our rink. However, if you won't have solid finance to support skaters, they definitely won't be elite competitive skaters. I wish I would have known that at beginning.

Excuse me, I thought we were talking about a child of ten here? That is, surely, far too young to know whether or not she will ever be an elite skater - or, indeed, whether she will ever even want to be one. For everybody's sake, including your own, relax and enjoy her skating for what it is now, and stop worrying about what may never be!

[sk8rmom2006]

Let me rethink what I said.

Even that $50 or so / week "bargain" from the skating academy (covering on and off ice group lessons and ice time) + $40-80 or so week for one or two private 30 minute lessons + a fairly minimal $1500/year in skates, blades, clothing and equipment + at least $1500 / year in travel + club, test and competition fees (even with carpools) = $7680 - $9760 = much more than the OP is currently spending.

I still think she could still do enough to be fun within the current budget. I assume she already is, if mom makes encouraging noises and doesn't worry about coming in last place in her first regional competition. I assume the girl doesn't emotionally need to win, that she can enjoy what she can do.

There could eventualy be a payout, if she becomes good enough at skating and teaching to be a coach - many earn high 5 to low 6 figure incomes, if they live near the right rinks - not what a doctor, lawyer or management level electrical engineer might make, but with more flexible hours. There are very few athletic activities where that is true.

Be 1st or place top is not her issue. She wanted to be advanced skaters, as good as others in her rink and saw in this big competition. I never heard any skaters with less than $10000 a year budget training, will be advanced skaters by the time graduate from highschool (my dd case 6 years). She might be able to pass all senior tests, but not advance skater.

My dd told me she won't want to be a coach when she grows up. She wants to finish her skating career in a good note by the time she goes to college. I know 10 yr old mind will keep changing. But her quote did not lighten my mood. I don't see she have time to teach to earn the ice time at this moment. During school year, she would have school and homework to be done. She is in 6th grade now. She goes to rink to train after school. She needs to go to bed by 9:00pm so that she could have enough sleep. Skating school and public ice normally are after 6:00pm during the week in her rink. Evening is the time for her to have dinner and homework. She need to keep herself in honor roll in order to skate. That is my rule. I can't see she can squeeze too much there.

Now I just need to find a way to keep her in skating to pass all the test. Hopefully, getting certificates from USFSA would motivate her after she quit competitive career.

Yes, Mrs. Redboots. I need relax a little bit. I guess I was freaked out when I first realized what is going on out there. I am feeling much better with knowing that I am not the only one that can not afford for her to keep going because of money issue. I will start to make little rain to let her know how much money we could afford and everybody would live happy with that amount of money. Hopefully time can ease off her disappointment and will keep her in skating.

[Skittl1321]

She might be able to pass all senior tests, but not advance skater.



A skater who has passed multiple senior tests is an advanced skater. It's absurd to think that they aren't. Heck- anyone who gets to the novice level is an advanced skater. I think less than 1% off all skaters who start a LTS program ever get even a single senior test. You'd have to call USFS to see if they have an official number, because thats just a vague rememberance of what I'd once read- so I might have made it up.

Without money you can't be an elite competitive skater, it's just not possible. But worry about that when you get there. If you get there, then start looking for sponsors- for now, just let her skate and enjoy it.

[sk8rmom2006]

A skater who has passed multiple senior tests is an advanced skater. It's absurd to think that they aren't. Heck- anyone who gets to the novice level is an advanced skater. I think less than 1% off all skaters who start a LTS program ever get even a single senior test. You'd have to call USFS to see if they have an official number, because thats just a vague rememberance of what I'd once read- so I might have made it up.

Sorry, what I meant "advanced skater" is elite competitive skaters.

Without money you can't be an elite competitive skater, it's just not possible.

Ahmen!
I was scared when I found this out this time. That is why I started this thread. I am not very familiar with whole skating rules and realities. My job is to drive my dd to and from the rink and paying the skating bills. I felt sad when I first realized this and did not know if I was the only parent hinder my skater to have a opportunity to be elite skater because of my money. Now, I know this is norm of skating. With that picture in mind, we will scale back our spending and work on to smooth her transition.

But worry about that when you get there.

We are not there - being a elite skater yet. But we are there - feeling the heat that money is crucial for a skater to advance to elite skater. That is how it worried me.

I have a suggestion. All skating school should have parent orientation class. For busy mother like me, I did not know what to expect in this sport. I am like my dd, learn as we go. It would be better that anyone can tell me not just we can either choose to be ISI member or USFSA member, but also let me know staying in different meembership, what cost to expect if skater makes into certain level. If I would have known it would be so costly, I would definitely find a rink that has ISI program or just stay in test track with USFSA. Then my dd will never need to experience this big transition.

[TreSk8sAZ]

To make my question more specific, how to keep skaters to be advanced skaters with less than $5000 annual budget in a both working parents family?

I did not shoot down every suggestion here. But it seems to me other than keeping my dd at non competitive level, she could not excel and become advanced skaters because of my money issue. If anyone can let me know in the real world which skaters only skate 6 hours per week and only hour lesson, with off ice and ballet at home followed by dvd but made it to national? If so, please do share with me. It would really lift my hope and give me a huge encouragement. I can go back to tell my dd face to face that there is hope because it does exist.

Easy ways to use what you have money-wise and still have your DD advance:

1. Instead of one, one hour lesson, break it into 15-20 minute lessons a couple times a week.

2. Why would you need to have her train at a cheaper rink for one hour, then a more expensive rink later that night? Pick one or two days for her lessons, and say "We will be at expensive rink on these days, and cheap rink on these days. That means our lessons must be on these days." Work out the schedule with your coach and your daughter.

3. Borrow dresses instead of buying them, even from older girls at the rink.

4. Do pilates at home as suggested. Maybe get some hand weights to help increase strength. Ballet helps, but is not absolutely necessary as long as your daughter can express the music and stretches regularly. The coach will help with expression once the program is in place.

5. Does your daughter have no skating friends at her school that she could possibly carpool with to the rink? I would think if her friends are already going there, their parents would be willing to take your daughter, too, even if it means going to another rink.

Also, is your daughter working hard the entire 6 hours she's on the ice? If not, then simply working the whole time and not goofing off will make a huge difference in her skills and improvement. I simply don't undertsand why you wouldn't just wait to end her competitive skating experience until she gets unhappy with the amount of skting she's doing and the opportunities she's being given. If that's all you can afford, and she's happy with it, then explain the money issue to her, but leave her be for now.

By the way, you asked about expenses in Colorado. I just came back from 10 weeks there. I don't know of a single skater (especially at the Juv level) that was spending $70K+. The cost of living in Colorado Springs is less than in Chicago, so it's not nearly the type of cost the skater you put up is dealing with. I lived and skated in IL, too, and I can't imagine who would be doing that. My friends and I never did!

[Skittl1321]

I have a suggestion. All skating school should have parent orientation class. For busy mother like me, I did not know what to expect in this sport. I am like my dd, learn as we go. It would be better that anyone can tell me not just we can either choose to be ISI member or USFSA member, but also let me know staying in different meembership, what cost to expect if skater makes into certain level. If I would have known it would be so costly, I would definitely find a rink that has ISI program or just stay in test track with USFSA. Then my dd will never need to experience this big transition.

While in theory I agree with you- this would never happen. If skating schools did this they would lose all their business! No one would want to get involved in a sport with the potential for this cost. And while ISI is certainly cheaper- no one skates, even recreationally, without a good amount of cost. (Excluding those who rent skates twice a year for a go round with their friend- but that's not "figure" skating.) I'm a budget conscious adult pre-bronze (ISI 3) skater who also does synchro. I just worked it out and I spend about $750 a year on lessons, maybe $150 in costumes/practice attire, $150 in test/competition fees, $450 for synchro lessons, plus costumes and competition fees and travel. Honestly I don't want to add it up and think about all the teeny extras because this is a HOBBY for me. I don't pay ice time or for my group lesson because I work at the rink. (Have you thought about bartering??) There are lots of corners to cut, but it's never a cheap hobby.


Also- a rink is never going to tell you the difference between ISI and USFS. An ISI rink wants you to be ISI. That's how they make money. A USFS club wants you to join it- the low level skaters help fund the club for the high level skaters.

There is a talented young skater at our rink who just moved to one of the better coaches- he asked her to upgrade her equipment and now she has Jackson freestyles with Mark IV blades. She's working on an axel and a double sal. She and I are friendly and her mom chats with me. I just got new blades (low level paramounts) and I was saying I was pleased that they were inexpensive for blades- she asked what and I said $250- the mom nearly fainted when she heard that price. No one knows what they are getting into- not just you.

Every sport is expensive at an elite level. Tennis, equestrian, gymnastics, ballet (seriously those who want to go pro spend tons), diving, all of them. My cousins play on a traveling soccer team that easily spends as much money as a figure skater. Practices 5 days a week, team workouts. 10+ out of state tournaments yearly, driving around the state every weekend, uniforms, practice uniforms. Since soccer can be played at the rec league for $50 a season it's insance to think they spend this much- but that's apparently what it takes to get a college scholarship.

Anyone in the olympics is spending the big bucks on their sports. In todays world, you just aren't able to be a competitive athlete in an individual sport without the money. Even things like basketball, football, and baseball which you used to be able to track into college scholarships without much outlay now require incredibly expensive camps and training.

While ISI is most definetly cheaper than USFS- it's still not the magic bean. The competition costs are lower, but the coaching costs are the same. I guess you could say you don't need the same amount of coaching because you don't have to worry about levels, but your skater isn't at a level judged with IJS yet- so she just needs to worry about 6.0. I don't think ISI 10 skaters with axels in both directions got there with just one lesson a week.

I think it's possible you are worrying too much about the transition for your daughter from competitive track to test track. Both are still USFS competitions, and will require the same sort of training. It's not going to be a big difference- just that she'll be able to compete against those doing skills at the level she's tested to, and not way beyond that line.

[twokidsskatemom]

Excuse me, I thought we were talking about a child of ten here? That is, surely, far too young to know whether or not she will ever be an elite skater - or, indeed, whether she will ever even want to be one. For everybody's sake, including your own, relax and enjoy her skating for what it is now, and stop worrying about what may never be!

Mrs R
For a child of only 10, she is fairly advanced. Juv at 10 competing. I am sure she has all her doubles but D/A and maybe some doubles/doubles.She isnt a low low level skater. She could go to Jr nats if she did well in her region.

Someone had mentioned Co and training. I can almost promise the skater that train out for Broadmore at juv level and above spend 30,000 plus a year.That is a hotbed of good coaching, which costs money.I know the ice dances/pairs teams out of the rink spend 40,000 plus.That rink just took 11 teams to lake placid for the ice dance comp this week.
I assume the OP is talking about Liberty. I would just consider that comp a reality check. Its huge, and is one of the biggest of the year.Maybe one way to look at it is to see what she needs to be competive at Juv and work on those skills.Just about everyone who is on the fast track does that one, or Skate Detroit.
Does your club offer any kind of scholarships? Reinbursments for anything?
The New England Amateur Skating Foundation is a tax-exempt organization under section 501 (c) (3) of the Internal
Revenue Code. The mission of the New England Amateur Skating Foundation is to help competitive skaters by
defraying some of their ever-increasing expenses. With many skaters in need of your support, the Foundation offers
the opportunity of sponsorship to anyone who would like to help. We hope this page will provide you with any answers
you may have regarding your donation.
You can sign up and ask people to donate in your skaters name. You summit Bills, and you get the money. They get a tax break and your skater gets something.
Good Luck
Skaters at Juv level are under IJS.We just ran a comp that IJS for pre juv and above. Her skater does need to worry about IJS

[sk8rmom2006]

Thank you twokidsskatemom for the link you provided here. I will check it out and see if we are qualified since we live in Metra Chicago area.

My DD told me she would quit after this year regional. But she asked me to support her at current level until she finished it. She promised me she would work very hard both on and off ice and keep her school works up to honor roll. Both of us in tears. One of skaters moms told me to pray. That is what I am going to do now. God knows we tried. We need his guidance to walk thru this journey peacefully.

[kimmee4]

I understand how the poster feels but on a much smaller level. We have a very average income - well under 100,000.00. DD started skating less than two years ago and began private in the spring. This fall, she will maintain her one 25 minute lesson a week and will practice during another session. For us, thats $51 a week . Not close to 5,000 but it's all we can afford. Its too bad, she will probably not progress much with her jumps. She has great spins - even her cannonball sit spin and layback look as if she were skating for years. But, has been working on Axel for a month and maybe for ever due to lack of ice time. I will say that this summer we have tried to maximize her skating by skating on public session ($3) a session. Since the summer session of public skating is not even close to crowded - we use this ice for her lesson as well. She has only been in one competition and we bought a second hand dress for $20.

Even if I had the money, I know dd would not even come close to being an Elite skater. But , I do feel sad that her training is starting to become not nearly enough to see her come close to her potential. Unfortunetly, having money is a HUGE part of this sport and those that dont have any are at a big disadvantage. However, coming from a family whose parents could never even afford that one private lesson, I feel glad knowing I could give my dd something I could never particiapte in and there are families out there that cant even afford to spend 2,000 a year on thier kids. I understand how you feel, but in my eyes, you are so so fortunate to be able afford to spend 30,000.00 a year! What a lucky girl you daughter is to have that financial support !!! Think about it, some families barley have an annual income of that! When I think of it that way, It makes me feel happy for the little I CAN give.

[Skittl1321]

Skaters at Juv level are under IJS.We just ran a comp that IJS for pre juv and above. Her skater does need to worry about IJS

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking intermediate was where IJS usually started.

sk8rmom2006- have you or your daughter given any thought to synchro? Or is she only interested in singles?

[RachelSk8er]

I know synchro was mentioned as an option, so a little insight from someone who grew up in the sport...

Money is, I'm assuming, why my parents pushed me towrad synchro (and when I saw that those girls not only looked like they were having a good time but also had cute matching outfits, I had no objection). I will say it's not for everyone, but it was certainly for me. Through that sport, I made lifelong friends (many of whom quit skating either when we went off to college or during college, yet now in our mid-late 20s we're in each others weddings, etc). My parents made many great friends they keep in touch with years later. I was able to compete in fifteen national championships earning numerous national medals (including gold :)), competed at the senior division, had the opportunity to represent the USA internationally (trips fully-funded by the USFS), competed in college (on our team which was amost fully-funded by the school), etc. I am very thankful I had that opportunity AND that the club I skated for when I started had very, very good fundraising so that it was affordable.

I know Starlights and Chicago Jazz were mentioned as being near you, both are outstanding programs with multiple teams and therefore room for growth as a skater. There are also many other teams in the Chicago area that compete USFS and there is also ISI (more recreational, less travel, less cost....also the same for USFS "open" teams). To give you a very rough idea of cost, I skated for a fairly large successful club with multiple teams. Montly dues (covering ice time, coaching, off-ice, costumes, competition entry fees, paid 9 or 10 months of the year) were about $150-200/month for open levels or juvenile, $250/month for the novice team, and $400 for the senior team. Travel and team apparel for new skaters was in addition to this. However, costs could be offset by numerous fundraising opportunities. I know some local coaches at various clubs in the area I would be glad to put you in touch with.

Most clubs/teams require outside skating. However, you can get by on 2 hours a week and a 30 min lesson--you don't really have to keep up with freestyle to the point where you're doing doubles, etc, juvenile skills in terms of freestyle will suffice....the stress is more on moves in the field since there are USFS test requirements for certain levels and many clubs have their own slightly higher test they prefer....ice dancing is also helpful. Depending on the level your child is at, there can be a fair amount of travel involved. However, a lot of parents will get together with other families and take turns on some of the trips (especially smaller competitions) to save money, or just mom will go and share a room with another mom/daugher, etc. Especially by the time I was about 14, my parents really only went to Nationals and one or two other competitions that were close.

Synchro is also STRONGLY emerging as a college sport, with 40+ schools offering teams now. While still not recognized by the NCAA (and therfore not allowed to give scholarships), a lot may change by the time she's ready for college. So there are tons of opportunities out there.

If you bring this up to your daughter's coach and she seems "against" it, please don't drop the idea. Many singles coaches out there have a very outdated view of synchro (one coach at my rink came right out and said he saw it once in 1990 and didn't like it...A LOT has changed with the sport since then). It doesn't mean you're a weaker skater (common view point, but not true--most high level synchro skaters have 2-3 multiple gold tests, and even on our local open junior team, 3 kids went to junior nationals in ice dancing this past year). It's simply a different kind of skating, different atmosphere, and if you and your daughter think it may be for her, it shouldn't matter what a coach, other parent at the rink, or anyone else says.

[twokidsskatemom]

Thank you twokidsskatemom for the link you provided here. I will check it out and see if we are qualified since we live in Metra Chicago area.

My DD told me she would quit after this year regional. But she asked me to support her at current level until she finished it. She promised me she would work very hard both on and off ice and keep her school works up to honor roll. Both of us in tears. One of skaters moms told me to pray. That is what I am going to do now. God knows we tried. We need his guidance to walk thru this journey peacefully.


You can live anywhere, we are going to sign up too. You can ask anyone to donate, they just tell them the money goes to......
Good luck at regionals !!!!

[sk8lady]

I did not shoot down every suggestion here. But it seems to me other than keeping my dd at non competitive level, she could not excel and become advanced skaters because of my money issue. If anyone can let me know in the real world which skaters only skate 6 hours per week and only hour lesson, with off ice and ballet at home followed by dvd but made it to national? If so, please do share with me. It would really lift my hope and give me a huge encouragement. I can go back to tell my dd face to face that there is hope because it does exist.

Of the two skaters I know personally from my state who have skated or are skating at an elite level, neither was from a wealthy family. One was a boy--whole different story--and the other managed financially by having a wealthy private sponsor who paid most of her expenses. Since you do sound pretty desperate, you might try writing "cold call" letters to people with some connection to your area, family, etc. who are wealthy and might conceivably be willing to sponsor your DD.

Or have her switch to hockey, if what she's really looking for is competition. She might be a step ahead coming in as a squirt who can actually skate.

[phoenix]

You should check out the Michael Weiss foundation:

http://www.michaelweiss.org/criteria.shtml

I know some skaters model to earn money; would that be a remote possibility? I say this knowing zilch about the industry, so you'd have to do some major research, but.....

I second the idea of approaching local/regional philanthropists to see if there are any possibilities there. It's a long shot, but there are people out there who do that sort of thing.

This is, as another poster finally pointed out (thank you!!) a very unusual child, who's reasonably competitive at juvenile at age 10. This is not your average kid skater. I was assuming she'd have double axel, yes? There may be some sponsorship possibilities out there.

I'm not familiar w/ Elmhurst but you could see if there's any chance the community might get involved; wouldn't be the first time there were bake sales held to help out a skater!

[Query]

Or have her switch to hockey, if what she's really looking for is competition.

The better hockey kids spend a lot too. Someone in Maryland Youth Hockey said the best edges coach charges $150/hour, and kids pay a fair bit just to belong. Travel teams travel a lot.

I guess my point about sharpening blades (or modifying skates to fit) is a lot like telling people to repair their own cars. Most of us are afraid to repair cars, including me.

I agree to go to the best sharpener you can find if you have someone else do it. Someone who isn't careful, or who thinks figure blades should look like hockey blades, can destroy expensive figure blades in a few seconds with power tools.

It doesn't take an engineer to sharpen blades with the Pro-Filer (hand tools, with diamond dust cylindrically shaped abrasive and polishing stones, kit costs $90); all it takes is patience, analysis, care, and experimentation, to find what you like. The same is true if the best pro does it with power tools, but he/she can probably make a better initial guess, based on skating level and style, ice temperature at the dominant rinks, and the skater's weight - so go to him/her once - and ask what hollow was used. Photocopy the new blades so you can maintain the original profile/sweet spot.

I live an hour or less from some best sharpeners around, and I sometimes use them, but what I do myself fits my skating style better, because I took the time to figure out exactly what I like.

If I let it get too flat, or I want to change the hollow (as I do right now!), or if I need the toe pick modified because I've worn down too much metal to work with the current shape, I'll go to one of the pros I trust - hand tools remove metal too slowly for major changes.

[Virtualsk8r]

I've been reading this rather lengthy thread over the past few days and felt it was about time to say something. The parent in question asked how she could train an elite or advanced skater on a $5,000 a year budget. The answer is simple-- you just can't. No matter how much scrimping and saving you do with regards to lessons, ice time, dresses, sharpenings (lol) -- there is no possible way to get your child to the advanced or elite level on that budget -- period.

Anyone who thinks that they can train a skater to the higher levels without incurring tremendous costs - needs a reality check, I am sorry. The truth is hard to bear, but unless a family can find sponsors or other financial means to support this sport - the dream of becoming an elite athlete is just that... The fact remains that elite figure skating is obtainable by very few athletes -- and not without massive outlays of money.

Even though I coach my own national level child - $5,000 barely covers travel expenses to nationals or sectionals, let alone ice time, skates, costumes, choreographers, music, harness lessons, off-ice etc. etc. In fact, a skater who is headed for nationals at just about any level - spends about $2,000 on choreographers alone. My ice bills alone are more than $5,000.

I coach all levels of skaters - and the first thing I do when a skater reaches the Juvenile level is to be realistic with the parents about the high cost of heading for nationals -- and the dream of making it to the podium.

I wish all talented athletes could reach their potential without cost - but that is not the reality of our economic system. Money can buy happiness and to some degree, success. Unfortunately, if you can't afford to pay for the dream, it will always be just that.

One other reality check - take a look at the Juvenile and intermediate skaters who made it to nationals last year. Find their individual report cards online, if possible, and see what kind of scores their jumps, spins and footwork received. How many skaters at the Juvenile level were doing double axels with full credit and triple jumps?? Did they all have Level 4 spins, spirals, high level footwork etc.? If the 10 year old in question is capable of a double axel and a good attempt at a triple jump - then she is in the national ballpark.... But, if at age 10 she is not doing all the doubles, plus a double double, and working on a good double axel and triple jumps -- then the path to the national podium is already gone. Harsh words, I know, but in this day the phenoms are doing the hard stuff earlier and earlier -- and leaving the rest of the pack behind them in their wake.

[techskater]

Juvenile skaters can no loinger compete with triples in the US (I think you are in Canada, Virtual?). It doesn't stop them from working on them, though, that's for sure.

[twokidsskatemom]

I've been reading this rather lengthy thread over the past few days and felt it was about time to say something. The parent in question asked how she could train an elite or advanced skater on a $5,000 a year budget. The answer is simple-- you just can't. No matter how much scrimping and saving you do with regards to lessons, ice time, dresses, sharpenings (lol) -- there is no possible way to get your child to the advanced or elite level on that budget -- period.

Anyone who thinks that they can train a skater to the higher levels without incurring tremendous costs - needs a reality check, I am sorry. The truth is hard to bear, but unless a family can find sponsors or other financial means to support this sport - the dream of becoming an elite athlete is just that... The fact remains that elite figure skating is obtainable by very few athletes -- and not without massive outlays of money.

Even though I coach my own national level child - $5,000 barely covers travel expenses to nationals or sectionals, let alone ice time, skates, costumes, choreographers, music, harness lessons, off-ice etc. etc. In fact, a skater who is headed for nationals at just about any level - spends about $2,000 on choreographers alone. My ice bills alone are more than $5,000.

I coach all levels of skaters - and the first thing I do when a skater reaches the Juvenile level is to be realistic with the parents about the high cost of heading for nationals -- and the dream of making it to the podium.

I wish all talented athletes could reach their potential without cost - but that is not the reality of our economic system. Money can buy happiness and to some degree, success. Unfortunately, if you can't afford to pay for the dream, it will always be just that.

One other reality check - take a look at the Juvenile and intermediate skaters who made it to nationals last year. Find their individual report cards online, if possible, and see what kind of scores their jumps, spins and footwork received. How many skaters at the Juvenile level were doing double axels with full credit and triple jumps?? Did they all have Level 4 spins, spirals, high level footwork etc.? If the 10 year old in question is capable of a double axel and a good attempt at a triple jump - then she is in the national ballpark.... But, if at age 10 she is not doing all the doubles, plus a double double, and working on a good double axel and triple jumps -- then the path to the national podium is already gone. Harsh words, I know, but in this day the phenoms are doing the hard stuff earlier and earlier -- and leaving the rest of the pack behind them in their wake.

Out of the juv from last years Jr nats I think only one had a D/A.Dont need it at juv level here in this country.They do seem to have doubles doubles, although not all landed.In fact I know a few of the high level juv girls and they might be working on a D/A takes a long time.
Ashley Wagner now 17, took 4 years for hers and didnt have it at age 10. Hope is not lost ....

[RachelSk8er]

One other reality check - take a look at the Juvenile and intermediate skaters who made it to nationals last year. Find their individual report cards online, if possible, and see what kind of scores their jumps, spins and footwork received. How many skaters at the Juvenile level were doing double axels with full credit and triple jumps?? Did they all have Level 4 spins, spirals, high level footwork etc.? If the 10 year old in question is capable of a double axel and a good attempt at a triple jump - then she is in the national ballpark.... But, if at age 10 she is not doing all the doubles, plus a double double, and working on a good double axel and triple jumps -- then the path to the national podium is already gone. Harsh words, I know, but in this day the phenoms are doing the hard stuff earlier and earlier -- and leaving the rest of the pack behind them in their wake.

I skate at a rink where there are a lot of home-schooled kids who train all day (some are local, some families moved here, some are from a few hours away and mom and the kids come during the week), and a lot of other kids who go to school and spend the rest of their time at the rink. 9 of our skaters went to junior nationals last year (a pairs team, 2 dance teams, an intermediate boy, an intermediate girl, and a juv girl). All of these kids, and even a lot of the kids who are NOT making it out of sectionals or even regionals at the juvenile or intermediate level have already passed their junior senior moves, most of them senior, and they're on silver, pre-gold dances or higher. The intermediate lady (who is 14 now and actually skipped up to junior for this year) just passed her last gold dance a few months ago.

[techskater]

Similiar situation north of the city of Chicago - Juvies and Intermediates making JNs, Novices, Juniors, and Seniors making at least Sectionals, a couple of World competitors who switched countries. Many are homeschooled. Parents work two jobs each of one kid that I know - drop the kid off at the rink @ 5:45 AM in the summer with two meals and snacks in a cooler and the other parent picking up at 5 PM. Luckily, one of the World level competitors has a car her parents bought for her and she's nice enough to offer to drop some of them off at home/gym.

[sk8lady]

No offense to anyone, but that doesn't sound like a real fun childhood to me!

[techskater]

Not my kids, so no offense taken. It can't be much of a fun life for the parents either if they are working 2 jobs each.

[jskater49]

No offense to anyone, but that doesn't sound like a real fun childhood to me!

This is why I'm not sympathetic that 10 year old doesn't have the money to train for this kind of life. I save that for the kid who does have to live that life!

j

[isakswings]

I don't doubt the budget you posted but OMG! Where is she skating that she spends $60 a day on ice time alone?


And how much ballet does she take? When I was doing ballet, taking 3 90 minute classes a week it cost me less than $200 for 8 weeks tuition. This was at an academy that routinely produced professional dancers.

This has to be an example of the high end of money spent. I don't think it's at all the norm.
*faints at the thought of that much money spent*


Are private school and apartment rent really skating expenses?

I was thinking the same thing about the ice time! I also agree about the apartment and schooling.

[isakswings]

Your feeling is just what I was afraid of my dd. She is so stubborn and wants to be good at things she like. If she had been not doing well, it would be easier for her to accept it. She is now in the process going up. It would be hard for her to understand. That is why I need her therapist to be involved.

I am so glad that you are still skating. Skating now would mean different thing to you compared when you were young, I guess.

I don't think everyone spent $70K in skating, just like not every skater will be elite skaters. I thought Sk8tegirl06 wanted to know where $70K came from. That was why I laid out here. For me, we will never be able to do that.

Our rink, with contract, ice time is $15/hour, so she skates 4 hours, that is where $60/day came from.

Her coach charges $95 per hour. She has one hour private lesson per day, 6 days per week. My dd coach does not charge that much. We have been approached by the other skater's coach. But we knew we could not afford it, we declined it.

Wow. If we did an hour long lesson with dd's coach, it would be $50/hr and freestyle ice time is 5.00/hr. I'm feeling very blessed to live in a area where the lessons are cheaper and ice time is also less expensive! WOW.

[AshBugg44]

Her coach charges $95 per hour. She has one hour private lesson per day, 6 days per week. My dd coach does not charge that much. We have been approached by the other skater's coach. But we knew we could not afford it, we declined it.

Way off the subject, but I'd just like to point out that a coach approaching you about taking lessons while you are already with another coach is highly unethical.

[twokidsskatemom]

No offense to anyone, but that doesn't sound like a real fun childhood to me!

I would bet if you asked, 80 percent of them woudnt change anything.I would doubt one high level skater would say I wish I hadnt grown up like that.If its their passion, you cant get them off.
I wouldnt have my skater at the rink all day,but we spend a few hours every day.
I think the poster was speaking about Summer training. That is what happens at major rinks.

[Mrs Redboots]

Mrs R
For a child of only 10, she is fairly advanced. Juv at 10 competing. I am sure she has all her doubles but D/A and maybe some doubles/doubles.She isnt a low low level skater. She could go to Jr nats if she did well in her region.

Yes, but who's to say that a child of ten, good or not, will still be enjoying skating in three years time? My coach was saying this morning that, if a skater is to survive puberty (and the vast majority don't), they really need to have a least one triple before it hits - and even then, it's a holding operation for four or five years and many give up. At least until adulthood....

[jskater49]

I would bet if you asked, 80 percent of them woudnt change anything.I would doubt one high level skater would say I wish I hadnt grown up like that.If its their passion, you cant get them off.
I wouldnt have my skater at the rink all day,but we spend a few hours every day.
I think the poster was speaking about Summer training. That is what happens at major rinks.

My coach had a childhool like that. She begged her mom to let her go away to another training place and live with the coach. Her mom said no and she's thankful. She also is NOT going to let her kids do what she did.

j

[momof3chicks]

Synchro would be a great option considering your location because there are two very established and strong synchro teams in the area - the Chicago Jazz and the Skokie Valley Starlights.

The other option is to be honest with your daughter about what YOU can afford from a time and $$ perspective. My parents did that with me as a kid (we can afford for you to skate x hours per week, take x lessons, and compete x times per year and we can only afford x time to take you so if you are going to skate it must be at x time). I didn't make it very far competitively, but I did learn to love the sport and have returned as an adult. I guess you could say my parents fostered a life long love! :bow:

I totally agree, my dd is a synchro skater and it is a blast. It isn't cheap, you still have to keep your skills up, but the level of lessons and $$ is different than competitive solo freestyle.

[blue111moon]

Again, there's a difference between advanced and elite. There are many, many advanced (ie: high-test) skaters who never become elite (making it to Nationals), especially in ladies' singles.

The blunt fact is that skating is expensive. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it and that's all there is to it. Find a cheaper sport like running or soccer (although I think you'll find that becoming "elite" there is expensive too).

As for how other people afford it, well, I know for a fact that Kitty and Peter Carruthers' parents triple mortgaged their house and Mr. Carruthers literally went door-to-door at local businesses hunting for sponsors. Nancy Kerrigan's dad worked three jobs. Even the parents I know who are well-off (as in lawyers and doctors and other high-income profressions) make major sacrifices (working multiple jobs, foregoing family vacations, etc.) to further their children's hopes.

If you're not willing/able to do that, then the chances are pretty high, that, no, your child might not become elite.

But then the chances are just as high that your child won't become elite even if you poured money on her like water.

[sk8rmom2006]

You can live anywhere, we are going to sign up too. You can ask anyone to donate, they just tell them the money goes to......
Good luck at regionals !!!!

Thanks, twokidsskatemom.

No offense to anyone, but that doesn't sound like a real fun childhood to me!
No. But it seems my dd would like to have it. I have been toying with her the ideas of other sports, like golf or ballet or baseball. She told me she likes other sports, but compared to skating, she loves skating more. She would like to sacrifice for it.:?:. She told me if it is money, she had to quit but does not mean she agree to quit. She told me in that case she had no choice. She told me skating is her things.

Way off the subject, but I'd just like to point out that a coach approaching you about taking lessons while you are already with another coach is highly unethical.
Sorry, I need to correct my original post. It was not the other coach approached us directly. It is my DD's coach suggested that by going one class with the other coach would be an enchancement for her.

As for how other people afford it, well, I know for a fact that Kitty and Peter Carruthers' parents triple mortgaged their house and Mr. Carruthers literally went door-to-door at local businesses hunting for sponsors. Nancy Kerrigan's dad worked three jobs. Even the parents I know who are well-off (as in lawyers and doctors and other high-income profressions) make major sacrifices (working multiple jobs, foregoing family vacations, etc.) to further their children's hopes.

If you're not willing/able to do that, then the chances are pretty high, that, no, your child might not become elite.

But then the chances are just as high that your child won't become elite even if you poured money on her like water.

Thank you for your affirm my thought that money is key here. What surprised me is it becomes such big impact even in such early stage. For God Sake, she is only 1st year Juv, which is lowest qualified level. Other sports, only when you get into really high level, you feel the pain of money. Not in the first qualified level like skating.

Yes, all these discussions clear my mind. That we can not sacrify everything, including my other younger child's benefits for my DD skating. We can not endure our family apart in order for her inch forward in skating. We can not drain our finance to foot her skating bills so that she has some fair playground to have a chance be elite level in this sport. We are just not a qualified elitable skater parents. On one hand, I just wish we would have someone like you guys/ladies to give me reality check when we started her skating. We would never keep her hope so high if she had only stayed in ISI.

On the other hand, I would really hope that USFSA could do something to change the system. If skating can be varsity sport, it would give more accessibilities for kids to advance in elite path. Even expensive sports like tennis, golf, our public schools district have team and tournaments for them. That way, kids can get some free or discount fees for the lessons and continue to paticipate highly competitive events without give up too early because of money. Won't USFSA know that if you can get more competitive kids to compete in the event and stay in the sport longer, you could get more high quality athletes? I guess nobody feels the need to push this sport to be more accessible (for elite level) is because whatever the system now it still provides USA enough elite skaters in the world and olympic games.

[sk8rmom2006]

I've been reading this rather lengthy thread over the past few days and felt it was about time to say something. The parent in question asked how she could train an elite or advanced skater on a $5,000 a year budget. The answer is simple-- you just can't. No matter how much scrimping and saving you do with regards to lessons, ice time, dresses, sharpenings (lol) -- there is no possible way to get your child to the advanced or elite level on that budget -- period.

Anyone who thinks that they can train a skater to the higher levels without incurring tremendous costs - needs a reality check, I am sorry. The truth is hard to bear, but unless a family can find sponsors or other financial means to support this sport - the dream of becoming an elite athlete is just that... The fact remains that elite figure skating is obtainable by very few athletes -- and not without massive outlays of money.

I coach all levels of skaters - and the first thing I do when a skater reaches the Juvenile level is to be realistic with the parents about the high cost of heading for nationals -- and the dream of making it to the podium.

Thank you for your frank words. I really wish our skating school and coaches would warn us first thing about this before we started.

I wish all talented athletes could reach their potential without cost - but that is not the reality of our economic system. Money can buy happiness and to some degree, success. Unfortunately, if you can't afford to pay for the dream, it will always be just that.

Actually, in this skating case, if you have money you are lucky to be able to buy such not happy childhood life in some people eyes.

One other reality check - take a look at the Juvenile and intermediate skaters who made it to nationals last year. Find their individual report cards online, if possible, and see what kind of scores their jumps, spins and footwork received. How many skaters at the Juvenile level were doing double axels with full credit and triple jumps?? Did they all have Level 4 spins, spirals, high level footwork etc.? If the 10 year old in question is capable of a double axel and a good attempt at a triple jump - then she is in the national ballpark.... But, if at age 10 she is not doing all the doubles, plus a double double, and working on a good double axel and triple jumps -- then the path to the national podium is already gone. Harsh words, I know, but in this day the phenoms are doing the hard stuff earlier and earlier -- and leaving the rest of the pack behind them in their wake.

My dd has all doubles. She got her double flip and luz last year. The quality and height are much better now. But she always has problem with double toe. Her coach told me she got her 1st very very clean double toe last week and the height was huge. She did not know I planned to have my daughter quit in working towards elite level yet.

My DD started working double axel last Dec. She started to work on trip sal in past 3 months. They are not consistent enough to be in the program yet. She had level 3 spin and level 2 foot work in her program. Her coach told me that we should prepare two years staying in this level becasue she did not see my dd can make it to national this year which is true after we were in that big competition. She told me my DD had a great chance to make to National next year in Juv level. That made my jaw drop too. I can't imagine we spend that much amount of money for two years in the same level. After the reality check, we definitely price out for the elite level.

To be honest, at the beginning, I felt sad because I thought we were not good parents because we just could not sacrify these much. And it was so much out of our capability and comfort zone. But now, I know we are not the handful few families been priced out. It is norm. I hope this would help my DD to smooth out her transition.

[RachelSk8er]

What I see here is just a matter of mixed up goals/priorities. What is more important to you? Having your daughter compete at the national level, or providing her with an activity through which she can learn important lessons (hard work, discipline, responsibility), make friends, and have a good time? I'm sure most of us who grew up in this sport will look at those things as far more important than any medal we ever won.

And you mention that skating should be a varsity sport--it actually is a growing sport in many high schools. Schools will have skating teams that compete much like a swim team or track team--placement individual events earn points and the school with the most points wins. I don't know about its popularity in Chicago but it is pretty big in Michigan and seems to be growing where I live in Ohio. This is something that's come up within the past 5-10 years. Skaters, however, usually still have to pay their own ice time and coaching. The school may have some practice time that's booked cheap or at no cost to the skaters and a coach to work with all the skaters during that time, but I'm sure that varies.

This carries on to college, where there are many schools participating in the intercollegiate conference. Competitions run much the same way, with skaters competing in individual events at their level (all are offered, from pre-prelim through senior free, solo dance, and other events). Figure skating is not recognized by the NCAA so scholarships are not available, and what it costs varies depending on the school (the college I went to paid 100% of our travel/hotel, food at competitions, entry fees, and for the 2 coaches who traveled with us, we paid for our ice time--a whopping $2.50 for a 45 min session, and we also paid for our private lessons. The school I went to for graduate school gave us all the free ice time we wanted).

Synchronized skating is also a rapidly growing college sport, again, not yet recognized by the NCAA so scholarships are available, but there are a few teams who are fully-funded varsity sports (down to skaters being given new skates every other year), and skaters' out-of-pocket expenses on teams at other schools who are not varsity teams varies from a couple hundred dollars for the whole season (everything included) to a couple hundred dollars per month. Many teams compete at the collegiate or open collegiate levels, and there are also a few teams competing at the senior level.

There is also the national collegiate championships held each August (not related to the intercollegiate conference, which has its own national championships), which is for junior or senior level skaters who are full-time college students. I am not sure what the requirement to qualify for this is.

So there are many opportunities out there aside from training to be an elite skater and spending your whole entire life in an ice rink.

[singerskates]

What about your DD just doing the elements and freeskate for testing in the competitive stream for the next few years. Then maybe she could get all her spins, jumps, footwork and spiral sequences to the highest level posible, so that by the time she's 16 she could pay for her own skating by coaching part-time. Just keep her out of any competition in which she has to travel for the next few years but still keep her in the competitive stream test wise.

Have you thought of having your DD becoming a model to offset her skating costs? She could also do neighbors' yard work at age 10 as well. Let her learn that skating costs money by making some money of her own. And if she's doing all doubles, what about your DD program assisting at her club's rink this year. Some clubs pay $5 an hour in ice time credits for program assisting. She could be helping the Learn To Skate program and getting the ice costs down which in turn helps her become a skating coach later in life (16 or older once coaching tests are passed) and save you money. You should talk with your DD and her coach about her program assisting the Learn To Skate and Snow Plow SAM classes.

[jskater49]

Have you thought of having your DD becoming a model to offset her skating costs? .

You want to get a 10 YEAR OLD into modeling???

How about she just be a little girl?

j

[mamaskate]

This carries on to college, where there are many schools participating in the intercollegiate conference. Competitions run much the same way, with skaters competing in individual events at their level (all are offered, from pre-prelim through senior free, solo dance, and other events). Figure skating is not recognized by the NCAA so scholarships are not available, and what it costs varies depending on the school (the college I went to paid 100% of our travel/hotel, food at competitions, entry fees, and for the 2 coaches who traveled with us, we paid for our ice time--a whopping $2.50 for a 45 min session, and we also paid for our private lessons. The school I went to for graduate school gave us all the free ice time we wanted).

Please tell me where you went to college and graduate school. I had no idea that some colleges had these kinds of programs.

[slusher]

I coach all levels of skaters - and the first thing I do when a skater reaches the Juvenile level is to be realistic with the parents about the high cost of heading for nationals -- and the dream of making it to the podium.



Been there done that. Our skater was somewhat successful at juvenile but aged out, to look at the possibly years of pre-novice during growth spurt while getting better jumps was just too much. We did a re-mortgage along the way.

We were entranced by the sport, I can't explain it. You're in that rink atmosphere, the coach suggests an extra ice session, although knowing that money is tight and you know it's the right thing to do so say yes what the hell, the coach bill comes in, the coach is kind and gives you a payment plan and then you're sitting in the bank office considering how much equity is in your house and how many more years that might cover and you talk with other people at the rink doing the same thing and think it's normal. You wonder how the people you work with manage to go to the Dominican every spring and have decent cars and eat out for lunch every day, their kids play house league hockey with their friends and hang out all summer.

Eventually you wake up.

[slusher]

Have you thought of having your DD becoming a model to offset her skating costs? She could also do neighbors' yard work at age 10 as well.

I take most of your posts with a grain of salt but you're crazy.

[sk8lady]

I take most of your posts with a grain of salt but you're crazy.

I do know some folks whose kids have done modeling. I thought it was kind of creepy though.

Plus while it's nice for kids to understand the value of money and take responsibility, it's not really a 10 year old's job to decide whether to fork over thousands of dollars to become an elite skater and then come up with the money--that's what parents are for.

[momof3chicks]

I do know some folks whose kids have done modeling. I thought it was kind of creepy though.

Plus while it's nice for kids to understand the value of money and take responsibility, it's not really a 10 year old's job to decide whether to fork over thousands of dollars to become an elite skater and then come up with the money--that's what parents are for.

I don't know, my 13 year old is well aware of what her horse showing expenses are and she has said she would be interested in modeling to help with the cost. What is wrong with it really?

She is 6 foot 1 inches tall- so it really is a good idea.

[Tennisany1]

...We were entranced by the sport, I can't explain it. ...


This is so true. DD has just moved up to preliminary and I can see how the sport would suck you in. I see her out on the ice at a competition and it brings tears to my eyes. I watch a video of her skating and it happens again. There is just something about a small child out on the big sheet of ice all alone. She is giving it her all and has such passion. Entranced is the right word all right!

[skaternum]

Chiming in really late, but I don't understand the outcome of the talk between the OP and her DD. Did you tell her that you can't afford it so she must quit? Or did you tell her how much you can afford and she decided to quit? I don't understand the comment about "have my daughter quit in working towards elite level." What exactly does this mean? Either the kid quits skating or continues skating with different goals. Do you mean the latter? Is your daughter going to quit skating or not?

And since the purpose of this forum is to butt in and express opinions, I have to say -- I think this is a tempest in a teapot. All sports, when done competitively, are expensive and require huge time commitments. Skating is one of the worst. Every family / athlete invests what they can and lives with it. You tell your kid how much you can spend, and they learn to deal with it. It builds character. It's not the end of the world. Personally, I think that most of those extreme cases of families taking out multiple mortgages, working 400 jobs, etc. are absolutely INSANE. Entranced or not, no freaking sport is worth the possible financial destruction of an entire family. And what about the non-skating child??

Has it ever occurred to you that the coaches who insist on daily lessons, etc. may actually be trying to just make more money? Sure, skaters need a lot of ice time and lessons, but is it necessarily true that your talented kid will finish last if you don't give the coach an extra $200 a week? Sadly, there are a lot of unscrupulous coaches out there who convince naive parents that their little darling is really talented and they MUST pay for extra lessons, etc. I see this all the time. Most of these kids wouldn't make it out of Qualifying Rounds, regardless of how much money you pumped into them.

And finally, for crying out loud, the kid is 10.

[Tennisany1]

entire post.

Well said skaternum. If you are not careful, skating is one of those sports that can become a bottomless pit in which to throw money . I believe I posted earlier, but I'll repeat because it is important, give the child a budget and let them work out how to spend it. It is good for the child and less stressful for the parents.

I also strongly believe that talent is in the eye of the beholder and some (not all) coaches use the "T" word in order extract more money from parents who have stars in the their eyes. A good coach will respect your budget and help you find ways to use it wisely. For example, lessons with another skater of simillar level can cut coaching costs in half. If both kids are working on a particular spin, there is very little difference between a private and a semi private. In fact, a semi private may actually be better. IMHO if a coach is asking for more time, they should also be making suggestions about how to stretch the current dollars further.

[singerskates]

Juvenile skaters can no loinger compete with triples in the US (I think you are in Canada, Virtual?). It doesn't stop them from working on them, though, that's for sure.

Why is it that US Juveniles no longer compete with triples?

[Clarice]

Why is it that US Juveniles no longer compete with triples?

I don't know that they ever did, really, even though the rules didn't expressly forbid it. Years ago, a girl from our club won Juvenile at Regionals with a triple, and the rule came out the next year. At the time, it seemed that people were surprised that a Juvenile would try one, and that the situation hadn't been addressed in the Rule Book because it hadn't come up before. (I don't know whether she was actually the first, though.) The rule is one of those "protection" things, intended to prevent injury. I know some Juveniles work on triples anyway, but if they needed those jumps for competition, kids would be working on them even earlier.

[Ellyn]

I don't know that they ever did, really, even though the rules didn't expressly forbid it. Years ago, a girl from our club won Juvenile at Regionals with a triple, and the rule came out the next year. At the time, it seemed that people were surprised that a Juvenile would try one, and that the situation hadn't been addressed in the Rule Book because it hadn't come up before. (I don't know whether she was actually the first, though.)

It was rare, but it happened occasionally.

I remember hearing a report from the governing council the year they specified jump limits at lower levels that included banning triples in juvenile, some coach asked what if you had a skater juvenile who could land triples -- the response was a hearty "Test up!"

So it's not so much age as overall skating skill level that determines whether preteens should be working on triples, according to US Figure Skating


The rule is one of those "protection" things, intended to prevent injury. I know some Juveniles work on triples anyway, but if they needed those jumps for competition, kids would be working on them even earlier.

Good point.

[momof3chicks]

If both kids are working on a particular spin, there is very little difference between a private and a semi private. In fact, a semi private may actually be better. IMHO if a coach is asking for more time, they should also be making suggestions about how to stretch the current dollars further.

This is very true, I find that my daughter is motivated to do the skills as well as the other kids and she works even that much harder.

[techskater]

It was rare, but it happened occasionally.

I remember hearing a report from the governing council the year they specified jump limits at lower levels that included banning triples in juvenile, some coach asked what if you had a skater juvenile who could land triples -- the response was a hearty "Test up!"



There was a girl with 2 triples at Juvenile one year in our area (don't recall the club) and there was a lot of angst and vitriol directed towards her and the coach from other skaters and coaches because it seemed as if they had intentionally held her back from Intermediate (I think she was 11) when compared to other skaters - she would have been JUST FINE in Intermediate and had the other skills to fit in that level. I guess the coach was trying to have her skater make a splash (at Juvenile :roll:)

[Query]

Who would of thunk. Looked up "varsity figure skating" on Yahoo. There are private K-12 schools with varsity figure skating teams. E.g.,

http://www.pds.org/page.cfm?p=8

Wonder if any offer skating scholarships.

(I'm not suggesting your DD is ready to leave home.)

[TOs8mum]

If you are only envisioning your daughter standing on the Olympic podium than you are limiting her ability to gain what she potentionally will gain from this sport, that is, self reliance, focus, the ability to set goals AND achieve them, strong character, decision making and the list goes on....

I think, you need to take a step back, and just re-evaluate why she is actually skating to begin with. Is it to make you proud and get to the Olympics, or is it because she has a passion for it and feels free when she steps on the ice, and all the stress and frustration and whatever other negative experiences away from the arena just simply melt away with each pull of the lace as she prepares to chase that perfect edge?

She's 10, when I was 10 I wanted to be just like Chris Everet Lloyd. Played a good game too, but I also wanted to be so many other things, and I am thankful that my parents allowed me the ability to explore them and not to be chained to one sport. Could I have been great? Who knows, who cares.
But I still love tennis and enjoy playing it with my son. Will your daughter enjoy skating and want to teach your grandchildren how to skate? Or will it be a constant source of agony over money and memories?

edited for length.

[twokidsskatemom]

I too have a daughter, who is 9, actually is about to turn 10, and is in PreJuv, first year this year.

$$ is tight right now, but we have always lived within our means, that is, we were lucky enough to live solely on my husband's income. I have 3 kids, she is our middle child. I went back to work recently, to fund, not just my daughter's skating but all of my children's activities.

Although we are just at the very begining of competitive skating, we are by no means wealthy, just sensible and pragmatic. My daughter has a very fine axel, has been skating nearly 3 years, that is, she has never actually ever stepped on the ice until she was nearly 7. She has been professionally coached for the last 18 months, and has risen dramatically.

She landed her first axel in April, and decided that was her fav jump. She has spend all summer working on 4 different doubles. She is nearly there on her double sal. I'm realistic enough to think she'll have it sometime in September, and then who knows about the rest.

Here's where I hope you are going to find this interesting. My husband and I have decided that IF she passes her Juv test next spring AND if she can land all of her doubles including her axel by next Christmas, we will continue to fund her skating towards achieving elite status. By next Christmas (09) she will be 11, however if she is still struggling with her doubles and not even close to attempting a triple by next Christmas, then we will know that in today's demanding sport that she will move down to test, and she will continue to enjoy her recreational sport at a financial level that works for us, and at a pace that will allow her to experience a more normal childhood.

As to financing, here's the facts, the window for development in this sport in this time, is incredibly small as Virtual8r said. You as the parent have to decide if it is worth remortgaging your home to carry you the next 2 or 3 years for training your young athelete (that would put your daughter at 12/13/14). If it isn't, then go recreational and continue at your 5k or less threshold per year. She will continue to improve, still get a lot of joy and satisfaction from her sport, and possibly could even go varsity in a few years if that is her goal.

If you are only envisioning your daughter standing on the Olympic podium than you are limiting her ability to gain what she potentionally will gain from this sport, that is, self reliance, focus, the ability to set goals AND achieve them, strong character, decision making and the list goes on....

I think, you need to take a step back, and just re-evaluate why she is actually skating to begin with. Is it to make you proud and get to the Olympics, or is it because she has a passion for it and feels free when she steps on the ice, and all the stress and frustration and whatever other negative experiences away from the arena just simply melt away with each pull of the lace as she prepares to chase that perfect edge?

She's 10, when I was 10 I wanted to be just like Chris Everet Lloyd. Played a good game too, but I also wanted to be so many other things, and I am thankful that my parents allowed me the ability to explore them and not to be chained to one sport. Could I have been great? Who knows, who cares.
But I still love tennis and enjoy playing it with my son. Will your daughter enjoy skating and want to teach your grandchildren how to skate? Or will it be a constant source of agony over money and memories?


I dont think you understand the op, or maybe no one can unless you have walked in her shoes. No matter what sport, its very hard to be told your child has something special and then not be able to help your child.
She never said she wanted her child to go to the olys. She did say her child does well, has been told they can go futher than another skater and she wasnt sure what to do.
Her skater is on the competive track. A skater a pre juv with just an axel or axle double sal isnt, at least isnt for right now.That doesnt mean she cant be, but isnt for now.
Double axles can take 3 or 4 years to master.Ashley Wagner senior ladies took 4 years for her D/A and that isnt uncommon.
imo
edited to add,
I think you are in Canada, maybe pre juv isnt the same as it is here. Pre juv here is double lutz, and maybe a double double try with nice spins combos.

[TOs8mum]

Twokidsskatemom wrote:

I dont think you understand the op, or maybe no one can unless you have walked in her shoes. No matter what sport, its very hard to be told your child has something special and then not be able to help your child.

Well, obviously you didn't seem to understand my post, or at least I wasn't direct enough. I am walking in this woman's shoes, as many of us here are. But as parents, it is up to us to decide at what point we say enough and to clearly and subjectively look at our own (not our child's) motivation as to why we are spending the cash in the first place.

Clearly this little girl is talented, but if her mom is seriously fretting about the cost of things now, she will not be capable of sacrificing even further for when things really start to balloon.

She appears to have made a decision, and a difficult one at that. But she isn't the first parent to say I can't, and she won't be the last. That does not mean that she has to give up skating, it just means that she won't be on the competitive track.

Just curious though, Twokids, why spend 10s of thousands of dollars a year on your child's sport (especially if they are skating at pre-Novice and above) in the competitive track if his/her ultimate goal isn't to attempt to finish first at Nationals one day? Ultimately these athletes are hopeful to represent their country at high profile events. So, if this isn't your motivation, why on earth go into the competitive track in the first place? To place last? To just fill in the numbers? It makes no sense whatsoever, as if you are skating for the pure enjoyment, but not the ultimate goal of being the best, stay in test and truly skate against yourself.
Sorry to sound harsh, as it isn't really my intent.

[twokidsskatemom]

Twokidsskatemom wrote:



Well, obviously you didn't seem to understand my post, or at least I wasn't direct enough. I am walking in this woman's shoes, as many of us here are. But as parents, it is up to us to decide at what point we say enough and to clearly and subjectively look at our own (not our child's) motivation as to why we are spending the cash in the first place.

Clearly this little girl is talented, but if her mom is seriously fretting about the cost of things now, she will not be capable of sacrificing even further for when things really start to balloon.

She appears to have made a decision, and a difficult one at that. But she isn't the first parent to say I can't, and she won't be the last. That does not mean that she has to give up skating, it just means that she won't be on the competitive track.

Just curious though, Twokids, why spend 10s of thousands of dollars a year on your child's sport (especially if they are skating at pre-Novice and above) in the competitive track if his/her ultimate goal isn't to attempt to finish first at Nationals one day? Ultimately these athletes are hopeful to represent their country at high profile events. So, if this isn't your motivation, why on earth go into the competitive track in the first place? To place last? To just fill in the numbers? It makes no sense whatsoever, as if you are skating for the pure enjoyment, but not the ultimate goal of being the best, stay in test and truly skate against yourself.
Sorry to sound harsh, as it isn't really my intent.
No, you arent in her shoes. She has a highly talented skater that has been told she has promise. She isnt sure how to handle the in abilty to fund talent and wanted to know what others thought.When your skater is told that, then you can relate to the OP.When a well known coach tells you your skater has promise, then you can relate to the Op.
I have no clue if you are serious or not re your last remarks.The goal isnt to finish first, at least not for my kids.My kids like to compete and placement isnt the goal at all, no matter what we spend or dont spend.Sorry you dont see it that way

[TOs8mum]

How arrogant of you to assume I am not walking in this woman's shoes.

Tell me, do you know me? do you know my own child?

Yet you seem to have an intimate knowledge of this woman and her child.

You yourself have made the personal decision to spend a small fortune on your child's hobby, as she likes to compete, your words, and you don't care how she places, again your words, because it makes her happy. Good for you.

I like to cook, but personally don't care if my kitchen is ever awarded 3 micheline stars or not, if I want to buy $1500 pots and pans and then go to an expensive cooking school that's my prerogative, if I want to over extend my finances to do this, again my choice and I have to live with the consequences. But it's still a hobby as I will never be on Iron Chef America and don't want to be. That doesn't mean I don't make a mean souffle and have innovative dishes.

As is your daughter's skating, and the subject of this thread's skating.

Many children show promise, and it is to the coach's benefit to be able to spot these kids and then tell the parents their kid has talent. Coaching is a profession, paid, and not a charity and as they are self employed they do need to be on the look out for more talent. Not many parents can easily afford the cost of developing the talent and not many parents are willing to put themselves into poverty to do it. If this child is truly an extraordinary talent and the coach him or herself sees this, then why isn't the coach offering to teach this kid for free or a drastically reduced fee? If this coach is popular and in demand I'm pretty sure it won't really affect his/her bottom line tremendously. Why isn't this coach talking to various people who would love to sponsor such a talented little wunderkind? Why isn't the coach pulling strings within the community to get things moving for this family?

The author of this thread was looking for someone to tell her, do it by any means. Thankfully her own common sense prevailed, and she has to now live with her decision as difficult as it is. Not every dream comes true, and not everyone has the means or the will to make their dreams come true, and some dreams are better left dreams.

Competitive athletes are not competitive because they want to place last. Try telling that one to Michelle Kwan, Lance Armstrong, Carl Lewis, and many other elite athletes. They are in competitive sport to not only challenge themselves but to win, whether it is a race, a competition, endorsements, whatever motivates them to seek out glory.

Glory comes in many packages, and I am sorry but I do not believe that an elite skater's highest goal is NOT to win, and that you don't put your kid in a highly competitive environment that sucks the financial life out you so that he/she can place last and compete for the fun of it.

But you obviously do, and that is quite clearly something we both do not agree on.

[twokidsskatemom]

How arrogant of you to assume I am not walking in this woman's shoes.

Tell me, do you know me? do you know my own child?

Yet you seem to have an intimate knowledge of this woman and her child.

You yourself have made the personal decision to spend a small fortune on your child's hobby, as she likes to compete, your words, and you don't care how she places, again your words, because it makes her happy. Good for you.

I like to cook, but personally don't care if my kitchen is ever awarded 3 micheline stars or not, if I want to buy $1500 pots and pans and then go to an expensive cooking school that's my prerogative, if I want to over extend my finances to do this, again my choice and I have to live with the consequences. But it's still a hobby as I will never be on Iron Chef America and don't want to be. That doesn't mean I don't make a mean souffle and have innovative dishes.

As is your daughter's skating, and the subject of this thread's skating.

Many children show promise, and it is to the coach's benefit to be able to spot these kids and then tell the parents their kid has talent. Coaching is a profession, paid, and not a charity and as they are self employed they do need to be on the look out for more talent. Not many parents can easily afford the cost of developing the talent and not many parents are willing to put themselves into poverty to do it. If this child is truly an extraordinary talent and the coach him or herself sees this, then why isn't the coach offering to teach this kid for free or a drastically reduced fee? If this coach is popular and in demand I'm pretty sure it won't really affect his/her bottom line tremendously. Why isn't this coach talking to various people who would love to sponsor such a talented little wunderkind? Why isn't the coach pulling strings within the community to get things moving for this family?

The author of this thread was looking for someone to tell her, do it by any means. Thankfully her own common sense prevailed, and she has to now live with her decision as difficult as it is. Not every dream comes true, and not everyone has the means or the will to make their dreams come true, and some dreams are better left dreams.

Competitive athletes are not competitive because they want to place last. Try telling that one to Michelle Kwan, Lance Armstrong, Carl Lewis, and many other elite athletes. They are in competitive sport to not only challenge themselves but to win, whether it is a race, a competition, endorsements, whatever motivates them to seek out glory.

Glory comes in many packages, and I am sorry but I do not believe that an elite skater's highest goal is NOT to win, and that you don't put your kid in a highly competitive environment that sucks the financial life out you so that he/she can place last and compete for the fun of it.

But you obviously do, and that is quite clearly something we both do not agree on.
Excuse me, do you know me? I dont spend a small fortune on skating, but that isnt what we are talking about.
When you are told your child has promise, then come back.I think its very sad you would tell a 9 year old if you dont have a D/A by next christmas you cant compete. Who puts that kind of presure about a jump on a 9 or 10 year old?Your skater has a single axle now, doubles take years.
And I would guess most parents on here dont feel the way you do. I didnt say the skater didnt want to win, I said parents shouldnt do that with the only goal in mind.We dont, and its a shame YOU do.
And I do know the Op, and have watched her skater for a few years now.
If skaters ONLY goal was to win, then most wouldnt be skating at all. The goal should be the best they can.Do you think comps run with only kids that come in first?How many comps has your child done? If they dont win they cant do it ?
Sad.
Oh edited to add.
I just noticed you took out your big idea about telling your skater they had to have a D/A by next year. Why did you take that part out? oh, embarrased now?Edited because it was too long, all your posts are longer......
Like I said, you dont walk in her shoes.

[sk8lady]

And I do know the Op, and have watched her skater for a few years now.
If skaters ONLY goal was to win, then most wouldnt be skating at all. The goal should be the best they can.Do you think comps run with only kids that come in first?How many comps has your child done? If they dont win they cant do it ?
Sad.
Oh edited to add.
I just noticed you took out your big idea about telling your skater they had to have a D/A by next year. Why did you take that part out? oh, embarrased now?Edited because it was too long, all your posts are longer......
Like I said, you dont walk in her shoes.

Maybe I'm confused, but isn't the purpose of this board to allow people to chat and express their opinions?
You've made several personal attacks on people during the course of this discussion thread and I wonder if the moderator thinks this is appropriate? .

[twokidsskatemom]

Maybe I'm confused, but isn't the purpose of this board to allow people to chat and express their opinions?
You've made several personal attacks on people during the course of this discussion thread and I wonder if the moderator thinks this is appropriate? .



I dont think I have made an attacks on anyone, sorry that you do. Just trying to explain.I was trying to defend the op, as the postor above was slamming her or at least that is how I took it.
:giveup::giveup:

[Tennisany1]

... Right now, we are spending over $30K per year, if she eventually quit competitive, I hope she do it now. It's just how I present the reality and let her mature faster than her age.

Just to bring things back to the original poster's comments, I am confused about how a child skating 6 hours per week, who's coach is asking for an increase to 15 hours per week, could possibly be spending $30,000 per year? $30,000 for 6 hours per week (even with the cost of skates, dresses, and competitions) seems a bit stiff!

My dd has skated 6 hours per week for the past year and will be adding another 1.5 hours per week this fall. She also has done 3 hours of ballet per week and will increase that this fall as well. The ballet is a mixture of group and private as is the skating. She gets LOTS of lessons and competes and tests regularly in both skating and ballet. I can assure you we are not spending $30,000 per year.

I realize the OP has made her decision; however, I feel very strongly that a child can compete up to the Juvenile level quite successfully without going over the $30,000 per year mark. Lots of successful kids do. In fact, there are pre novice and novice kids who do as well.

While new skating parents should be aware that skating is expensive, I wouldn't want a new parent reading this thread to think that they need to be spending that kind of money so early on.

[twokidsskatemom]

Just to bring things back to the original poster's comments, I am confused about how a child skating 6 hours per week, who's coach is asking for an increase to 15 hours per week, could possibly be spending $30,000 per year? $30,000 for 6 hours per week (even with the cost of skates, dresses, and competitions) seems a bit stiff!

My dd has skated 6 hours per week for the past year and will be adding another 1.5 hours per week this fall. She also has done 3 hours of ballet per week and will increase that this fall as well. The ballet is a mixture of group and private as is the skating. She gets LOTS of lessons and competes and tests regularly in both skating and ballet. I can assure you we are not spending $30,000 per year.

I realize the OP has made her decision; however, I feel very strongly that a child can compete up to the Juvenile level quite successfully without going over the $30,000 per year mark. Lots of successful kids do. In fact, there are pre novice and novice kids who do as well.

While new skating parents should be aware that skating is expensive, I wouldn't want a new parent reading this thread to think that they need to be spending that kind of money so early on.
I agree, even though I am not sure what pre novice is :}
We spend alot less and we have two kids. Our biggest expense is travel for comps and testing.I have no idea why the poster above thinks we are spending a small fortune. I barter for of the things for skating. We are blessed that we have had some support.
I was trying to stop people from jumping on the OP for her feelings. I do understand how she feels. I wish I could post my concerns about skating, however I dont want to be slammed. :frus:

[Sessy]

I don't think you have the right to tell her to quit skating, but you can present the facts of your life, financial and travelling distances and let her decide what to do with it. And besides, what are you so worried about? Once she passes the age limit and if she's then not good enough to test up, then your problem solves itself - if she is good enough to test up, then she's apparently so talented that 6 hours a week are enough. Maybe not to get medals, but enough to stay in the competition. And maybe she's willing to settle for that, to say, okay I'm not medalling but then I can't afford to train as much as others either, so I'm doing pretty well in competition after all.

I think your problem is that you're entirely focused on the end result. Look at it this way. Even if she quits the competitive track eventually, every year she's in it she's living her dream. Even if she's not medalling, she's living her dream. You can't just tell her to stop doing that because it would be more convenient for you, she'll hate you for it - trust me, I know a few (2) adults in different sports who had to quit because their parents didn't think it was *convenient*. You can tell her that you're at the top of what you can afford though, that you can't afford to give more than you're giving and that this is as good as it gets. And you can tell her coach that, too. That's just the way it is. She's old enough to know there's an end to money. But you can't tell her to quit!

Besides, consider this, driver's license age where you live is what, 16? 4 years from now, she's gonna be able to drive herself to the rink and you won't need to worry about it. But if she quits now, she'll be lucky if she can still do a single four years from now, skating skills go quite quickly.

[TOs8mum]

Twokids,

I wrote:

Here's where I hope you are going to find this interesting. My husband and I have decided that IF she passes her Juv test next spring AND if she can land all of her doubles including her axel by next Christmas, we will continue to fund her skating towards achieving elite status. By next Christmas (09) she will be 11, however if she is still struggling with her doubles and not even close to attempting a triple by next Christmas, then we will know that in today's demanding sport that she will move down to test, and she will continue to enjoy her recreational sport at a financial level that works for us, and at a pace that will allow her to experience a more normal childhood.


Nowhere in my post did I say that I told her she has to do a 2 anything!
I shortened my post because you had already quoted it in it's entirety. Embarrassed, don't be so presumptive.

You wrote:
Excuse me, do you know me? I dont spend a small fortune on skating, but that isnt what we are talking about.
When you are told your child has promise, then come back.I think its very sad you would tell a 9 year old if you dont have a D/A by next christmas you cant compete. (NO I DIDN'T READ ABOVE) Who puts that kind of presure about a jump on a 9 or 10 year old?Your skater has a single axle now, doubles take years.

And I would guess most parents on here dont feel the way you do. I didnt say the skater didnt want to win, I said parents shouldnt do that with the only goal in mind.We dont, and its a shame YOU do.

And I do know the Op, and have watched her skater for a few years now.
If skaters ONLY goal was to win, then most wouldnt be skating at all. The goal should be the best they can.Do you think comps run with only kids that come in first?How many comps has your child done? If they dont win they cant do it ?

(CLEARLY YOU COMPLETELY MISINTERPETED WHAT I WAS SAYING)

Sad.

Oh edited to add.
I just noticed you took out your big idea about telling your skater they had to have a D/A by next year. Why did you take that part out? oh, embarrased now?Edited because it was too long, all your posts are longer......
Like I said, you dont walk in her shoes.

Well I have a tendnacy to post long. I am trying to keep posts a little shorter and more to the point. Obviously now this isn't going to happen.

For whatever reason you have attacked me. For whatever reason I have hit some kind of a nerve in you. At the moment if I say blue you will say indigo.

I am not attacking you, and I am not attacking your skater or your beliefs.

The OP had asked what to do. I gave my opinion and you chose to attack it and then attack me personally.

I am not interested in lowering myself to mudslinging. My daughter has done enough competitions where she has come in 1st and middle of the field and almost last. Each competition has been a learning experience, and an enjoyable one.

We have been told my daughter has talent. We have had to wrestle with whether or not to stay on a test track (non competitive) yet still compete with other like minded skaters (Starskate) or to go ahead and test the waters with competitive skating. For now we are going competitive, and as my ORIGINAL post said MY HUSBAND AND I are waiting and seeing how she progresses by December/09. By that time we will have a good idea whether or to commit more finances and focus and sacrifice on a fledgling competitive career. If not we will drop back and continue to support her skating but not with a purely competitive bent. We have also had to really evaluate why we are supporting her in her endeavour to skate competitive.

Either way it is a win/win situation. Obviously you have misinterpreted my posts. How sad indeed.

[TOs8mum]

Trying to get back on track here !!

Tennisany1:
Your post is excellent! :

Quote:
Originally Posted by sk8rmom2006
... Right now, we are spending over $30K per year, if she eventually quit competitive, I hope she do it now. It's just how I present the reality and let her mature faster than her age.

Just to bring things back to the original poster's comments, I am confused about how a child skating 6 hours per week, who's coach is asking for an increase to 15 hours per week, could possibly be spending $30,000 per year? $30,000 for 6 hours per week (even with the cost of skates, dresses, and competitions) seems a bit stiff!

My dd has skated 6 hours per week for the past year and will be adding another 1.5 hours per week this fall. She also has done 3 hours of ballet per week and will increase that this fall as well. The ballet is a mixture of group and private as is the skating. She gets LOTS of lessons and competes and tests regularly in both skating and ballet. I can assure you we are not spending $30,000 per year.

I realize the OP has made her decision; however, I feel very strongly that a child can compete up to the Juvenile level quite successfully without going over the $30,000 per year mark. Lots of successful kids do. In fact, there are pre novice and novice kids who do as well.

While new skating parents should be aware that skating is expensive, I wouldn't want a new parent reading this thread to think that they need to be spending that kind of money so early on.


Very true. As we both live in Canada, there seems to be a bit of confussion as to what each level means compared to the States.

Here is a link to Skate Canada that shows what each of the minimum criteria are for each level:

technical requirements for SkateCanada (http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/skate_for_life/know_your_skating/technical_requirements/singles/)

Edited to say: Tennisany1, I have reread your posts here, and honestly you give terrific advice!! Very level headed, and you have basically hit the nail on the head to exactly what I was trying to express! Thank you! I hope that Sk8rmom2006 has also found your posts useful.

[twokidsskatemom]

Trying to get back on track here !!

Tennisany1:
Your post is excellent! :




Very true. As we both live in Canada, there seems to be a bit of confussion as to what each level means compared to the States.

Here is a link to Skate Canada that shows what each of the minimum criteria are for each level:

technical requirements for SkateCanada (http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/skate_for_life/know_your_skating/technical_requirements/singles/)

Edited to say: Tennisany1, I have reread your posts here, and honestly you give terrific advice!! Very level headed, and you have basically hit the nail on the head to exactly what I was trying to express! Thank you! I hope that Sk8rmom2006 has also found your posts useful.


I didnt attacked you, I stated my opion of someone that came on here and never posted and then attacked the OP on her feelings.Most people dont come on a board and just post the way you did.They get the feel of something first.
:giveup::giveup::giveup:

[Sessy]

Tosk8mum, sounds like you have a sound plan.

[TOs8mum]

Thank you Sessy.

I hope you are doing better, I have reread some of your posts and hope you are back on the ice soon.

BTW dd just landed her 2Sal last night!! Not once, not twice, but whipped off 15 clean landed out of 20.

Boy was she pooped when we got home...as you are in the Netherlands I am not sure when children there go back to school, but here in Canada, for the most part, school started yesterday.

I think she was still running on the pure adrenaline and excitement factor of the first day of school (had a very good day) and that translated well to the ice.

Hopefully she will be able to repeat the 2Sals today!!

But I digress from the nature of this thread!!

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start a thread on recent accomplishments if there isn't one already.

Have a good day Sessy! (As I write this it is very early and my day is just starting whereas you are probably already through half the afternoon!)

[Sessy]

Dinner time here actually haha. :-)
Well over here, schools don't start simultaneously, the country is split into 3 regions whose start and end of the holidays is two weeks apart to avoid everybody going on holiday simultaneously (as kids only get 6 weeks off) and causing great traffic jams.

Ahh but she's proven she can do em now, ey? :twisted::twisted: