ISI Worlds 2009

[littlekateskate]

Does anyone know where next years ISI worlds is being held?

[Black Sheep]

I read that somewhere on the Internets. Do a Google search! ;)

[smelltheice]

Does anyone know where next years ISI worlds is being held?


What is the difference between isi and usfsa? I really don't know

[Isk8NYC]

ISI is recreational, created by rink associations to provide a standard LTS program and competitive/show opportunities that kept people in the rinks through adulthood. Their test levels have the difficult elements spread out among the levels, which makes each test challenging or frustrating, depending on your viewpoint.

The USFSA is the governing body of figure skating in the USA, recognized by the ISU and Olympic committees to provide the champions for international competitions. Our "Nationals" are run by the USFSA.

The USFSA has an option LTS program called "Basic Skills" that takes the students up through well-planned levels until they reach the skating equivalent of the first "Standard" or "Adult" tests.

IMO, the USFSA has been eating the ISI's lunch since the Basic Skills program was introduced. It's designed to cleanly feed their existing "serious" test program, was (maybe still is) cheaper than the ISI program, and it provided more standardization in testing and competition. The USFSA provided tools and simplified processes to make the Skating School Directors' work much easier. Plus, skaters/families feel it's part of "The Official Program."

The ISI has been losing rinks in their program both through closings and turnover to USFSA.

If you look at the Reference Sticky, you can get an idea of the different test levels and how the skills compare.

[Skittl1321]

IMO, the USFSA has been eating the ISI's lunch since the Basic Skills program was introduced. It's designed to cleanly feed their existing "serious" test program, was (maybe still is) cheaper, and it provided more standardization in testing and competition. Plus, skaters/families feel it's "The Official Program."


We have a coach here who still tests his students ISI, even though our rink is USFSA Basic Skills LTS now. His reasoning- ISI World's give students a reason to need lessons over the summer.

As for cheaper:
ISI membership fee is $13 a year, USFSA Basic Skills membership is $7.50- but once you pass basic skills, USFSA goes WAY up, and ISI stays the same through the freestyle levels. It seems like ISI competitions are way less expensive too. Although the Basic skill entry fee was slightly lower than the adult track entry fee- when our rink held a competition with one day of USFSA and two days of ISI- I was able to enter 4 events in the ISI competition for about the price of a single start in the USFS one.

The adult nationals for ISI is $65 for the first event and $25 for additional events. The announcement for USFSA adult nationals has $120 for the first event and $80 for additional events (though I think some of those events are scored COP, but not all of them are, so that will add to the cost. I'm also unclear if this is just for championship events- but Adult Bronze is listed on the form I was looking at, and that's not a championship level, right?)

[smelltheice]

Thankyou muchly. We only have the one organisation here, The national ice skating association that covers all figure and speed skate sports.

[Mel On Ice]

I love competing both ISI and USFSA for different reasons. ISI is more democratic, and the stress is less because "everybody gets a prize" meaning that everyone medals and no one finishes lower than 6th. Freestyle 4s compete against freestyle 4s, comparing flips to flips. There's more events in ISI, it is one of the few remaining outlets for competing figures, something I'd still like to do just once.

But I love USFSA for the history, the pagentry and the challenge. The adult structure is demanding yet offers more flexibility. If I can't do a spiral sequence (a requirement in ISI 4), USFSA rules allow me to substitute a step sequence. They allow much more at every level to demonstrate skills. Their adult championships are a much bigger deal.

I don't know, I guess I prefer USFSA now since I haven't been skating in an ISI rink for 3 years now, but I miss ISI.

[Isk8NYC]

I skated ISI for years as a young adult and I loved it too. Esp. the Lake Placid annual competition (still running).
I've noticed some of the ISI competition entry forms are allowing USFSA Basic Skills skaters to enter without taking the ISI tests. An equivalency waiver, I think.

Skittl - you're right that the LTS:LTS is cheaper. That's what I was referring to; I don't know any rinks that have ISI freestyle groups beyond FS4 (which is appx. Pre-Prel.) I guess the LTS both end around the same level, then.

The higher-level ISI Freestyle tests require multiple judges, travel to a national event, and/or video submissions, so they're a little more expensive than the rest of their tests.

Prior to the ISI, the rinks all used home-grown LTS. Some were successful, some weren't, so the ISI really had a vested interest in a good LTS that retained students.

[littlekateskate]

I read that somewhere on the Internets. Do a Google search! ;)

Yea i have searched and searched and found nothing that i why i asked.

And for the other questions about the difference. I have found yea ISI is a general cheaper membership. But as for coaching and lessons the prices are about the same. And even some of the competitions are just as pricey! Now obviously its not like a Liberty competition or what now. But for basic home rink competitions they are fairly equivalent around here.

[Black Sheep]

Yea i have searched and searched and found nothing that i why i asked.

I just emailed Randy Winship at ISI. He confirmed that yes, ISI Worlds IS at Sharks at San Jose in 2009! ;)

[twokidsskatemom]

Isi is much cheaper. USFSA with IJS is going around 100 for first event, 25.00 for others.
ISI here is 45.00 first event, 10.00 for others. My kids do both, ISI has more creative events and fun things to do.
Due to our location and the fact its cost alot to travel out of here,its more ISI here for a good reason.Most skaters here will not even go to regionals but will travel in state 600 miles for ISI.
edited to add, we just got the new annoucement for the next comp in state in Aug. 125.00 first event for juv on up.

[Skating Jessica]

I don't know any rinks that have ISI freestyle groups beyond FS4 (which is appx. Pre-Prel.) I guess the LTS both end around the same level, then.

At my rink, we have figure skating development classes and LTS classes (ISI based). The LTS classes are just that and focus on building basic skills and cover through the Gamma level. The figure skating development classes are the classes more geared toward figure skating (jumps, spins, footwork, edges, etc.) These classes begin at the Delta level and currently we have groups that surpass FS4. The girls who take the highest of the figure skating development (at the level past FS4) are working on double-doubles (like double sal-double loop) and skate at the Juvenile/Intermediate level for USFS.

[Zac911]

i will be in San Jose for the ISI. i would like to meet up with anyone here that is attending.... it is always nice to associate a name with a face! :P

[AgnesNitt]

I am a member of ISI, but not a competitor.
It is my understanding that ISI 'tests to the book'. That is, if 3 people are entered in a class and none of them meet the book standard for first, there will not be a first. That allows ISI to have a class of one, and give that person a rating of second because that is their 'book score'.
More experienced ISI competitors on this board may be able to clarify this issue.
From my perspective, the fact that ISI has interpretive, figures, comedy, family, adult, pairs, dance, etc makes skating a lifelong hobby. You're not going to the olympics as an ISI member; but there's something for people who just want to have a good time skating outside the USFSA system.

[Isk8NYC]

SKATING AGAINST THE ISI BOOK:
This was easier to understand and achieve when competitions actually posted the scores - you could see how/where you lost/gained points.

A skater does not automatically get second in an ISI event when skating "against the book." The skater is judged based on their performance, then the score is compared to a perfect score in that event.

In order to win the event, you must get more than 80% on your score. (I used to think of it as getting a "B+" on a test.)

I skated ISI for years as a young adult and occasionally found myself skating against the book. Never had a problem getting the gold.

That's different from testing, however. Testing done in group classes is really done to measure achievement and determine the next session's level for the skater. Skaters do not (or should not) move up as a unit, with some being held back until others achieve. Most of these tests are not registered with the ISI HQ, they're kept on file at the rink.

Testing individually is more strict, with guidelines based on competition standards. This is done solely to determine the skater's proper level and register tests. These tests are registered with the ISI and determine the skater's competition levels.


The ISI intended their entire program to provide a lifelong skating involvement for anyone. It was created by rink operators, who wanted to keep customers coming in the door.

[herniated]

Here's my experience with competing with ISI. The footwork was allways an issue for me. I could never do it well. My coach(at the time) passed me for ISI freestyle 5 but even at 4 I couldn't do the footwork. Isk8NYC.. I used to do the event in LP too from 1995-1998? I wanted the option to do footwork that I CAN do.

Here was another issue.. not that it was ISI's fault more my coach's at the time and my own ignorance. My coach(I guess she was a judge) had passed me ISI fs 5 but I was no way near a fs5 skater. Now(in the 90's).. I wanted to compete USFSA but I'm ISI fs5 sooo I have to pass adult silver MIFs and silver free. Easy right? ha,ha, HA,ha,ha. Not for me. I had to first pass adult pre bronze, bronze, and silver MIFs and free. Pre bronze and bronze easy peasey but Silver. OMG. It took me two years and two coaching changes. USFSA was very clear with me (because I contacted them several times) that I had to pass USFSA silver because I had passed ISI FS 5 even though both organizations are not related and the standards (at least with me) are not the same. The whole process was... well, a frustrating learning experience. Eventually I did pass the Silver MIFs and free so I was then free to compete with USFSA. BTW, the smaller USFSA events I was able to skate 'up' a level but with the large events like AN.. no way.

I didn't even know there was an ISI adult nationals!

[TiggerTooSkates]

I'm sorry for jumping in on the thread - I've searched for an answer to this question and can't seem to find one. :oops: Would someone mind explaining skating by/against the book to me? I think I understand it, but then I find I'm confused again!

Thanks in advance for the time!

[aussieskater]

Tigger, is this the bit you're looking for?

It is my understanding that ISI 'tests to the book'. That is, if 3 people are entered in a class and none of them meet the book standard for first, there will not be a first. That allows ISI to have a class of one, and give that person a rating of second because that is their 'book score'.

A group of us were talking last night after synchro practice, and one said that in the past, they had skated at competitions as the only entrants in a synchro event. At the time, at least in synchro, if they were the only ones in an event and didn't skate well enough, then they would be given "first" but not be awarded the gold medal. (I think they said that they had to get at least 3.4 out of 6.0 to get the gold.) If there was more than one in an event, then even if they skated really badly but won anyway, they would be awarded the gold medal.

[Isk8NYC]

Here's my experience with competing with ISI. The footwork was allways an issue for me. I could never do it well. My coach(at the time) passed me for ISI freestyle 5 but even at 4 I couldn't do the footwork. Isk8NYC.. I used to do the event in LP too from 1995-1998? I wanted the option to do footwork that I CAN do.

Here was another issue.. not that it was ISI's fault more my coach's at the time and my own ignorance. My coach(I guess she was a judge) had passed me ISI fs 5 but I was no way near a fs5 skater. Now(in the 90's).. I wanted to compete USFSA but I'm ISI fs5 sooo I have to pass adult silver MIFs and silver free. Easy right? ha,ha, HA,ha,ha. Not for me. I had to first pass adult pre bronze, bronze, and silver MIFs and free. Pre bronze and bronze easy peasey but Silver. OMG. It took me two years and two coaching changes. USFSA was very clear with me (because I contacted them several times) that I had to pass USFSA silver because I had passed ISI FS 5 even though both organizations are not related and the standards (at least with me) are not the same. The whole process was... well, a frustrating learning experience. Eventually I did pass the Silver MIFs and free so I was then free to compete with USFSA. BTW, the smaller USFSA events I was able to skate 'up' a level but with the large events like AN.. no way.

I didn't even know there was an ISI adult nationals!

I agree about the footwork - it's my biggest weakness. I can spin really well and I USED TO be able to jump up to a double loop. I was a FS5 skater working on FS6 when I stopped skating. It will take me YEARS to regain the lost skills to get back up to that level of skating in either league. I have too much pride to request a downgrade, lol.

I am a member of ISI, but not a competitor.
It is my understanding that ISI 'tests to the book'. That is, if 3 people are entered in a class and none of them meet the book standard for first, there will not be a first. That allows ISI to have a class of one, and give that person a rating of second because that is their 'book score'.I've never heard of that rule, but it sounds feasible (and confusing) - I'll check the judges manual later - but I'm torn on which is the better solution. If everyone tanks, SHOULD first place be withheld or should we just name the best bad skater the winner? Hmmmm...it's a dilemma.

TiggerToo - sorry if I confused you; I was thinking of an event where only one skater is entered. In that case, the ISI requires you to skate "against the book" and earn over 80% of the total score in order to win the event. If any elements are not completed, you don't get points for that element, which could prevent you from earning 1st place.

For the USFSA, I'm not sure what the judges do for a single entrant in an event.


EDIT: The ISI judge's manual says that when there are 2-9 competitors in an event, the first skater in the group sets the standard mark; all other skaters are judged against him/her. Nothing that I read said not to allow a 1st if everyone tanks. *shrugs*

[TiggerTooSkates]

Thanks to all for your help - I've got a pretty good grip on it now (picks up the printed version for future reference...) :mrgreen:

[jak0203]

I prefer USFS because I like competition. My synchro team competes ISI and I found the talent level at the ISI competitions to be far inferior than at USFS competitions. Also, they have so many different categories and levels that even though there were many adults competing at my sectional competition, I was only competing against one other adult.
I definitely understand they have different purposes, but I prefer USFS and will stick with it. It is more pricey, though. :-/

[jak0203]

Oh..and the against the book. USFS you used to have the option of skating against the book. I've seen many people skate against themselves and get second or third. I believe that in this year's governing council they argued that this was unfair so they don't do that any more. I believe that's only for basic skills, though.