Starting out on Two feet

[jskater49]

I will start out by saying I'm very happy with my and my dd's coach.

We did notice when we moved here that a lot of the skaters two footed their double jumps A LOT. My dd never really two foots. She lands on one foot or she lands on her butt.

Yesterday in our jumps class I learned that they teach a Bell jump which is a forward landed two foot axel, in order to lead up to the axel. Personally, I don't think that's a good idea. I think that's why they all tend to two foot their doubles. DD was never taught the Bell jump and never encouraged to land her jumps on two feet from the very beginning.

Although I will say that my coach has me warm up my waltz jump by doing it on two feet and that as helped a lot.

Any other opinions on this?

j

[Skittl1321]

A coach at my rink is currently teaching 2 footed (fully rotated) axels to his freestyle group class to "get them comfortable with the rotation". I declined the offer to learn one, as I don't yet have a flip, loop, or lutz and didn't think it was necessary to begin an axel and went to the lower level freestyle class.

I think the idea of a coach encouraging a skater to land a waltz jump two footed vs any other jump two footed is very different. At least for me, I 2-foot a jump when I have poor rotation or height. For a waltz jump, it's not an issue of getting all the way around, it's an issue of security in skating, I've met plenty of people scared to do a waltz jump, but never one who under rotated it :)

I'm currently 2 footing my flip everytime, and I've decided I need to move back to my half flip until I get more height, then I'll tackle the flip again at a later date.

[Kim to the Max]

I attribute some of my current issues with landing my axel on the toe (on one foot) from learning to do a half axel (or a bell jump as others call it)...because for that, I landed very flat footed and not I still land my jump flat footed and it is a major issue...

[Ellyn]

I think of the relation of bell jump to axel as being similar to the relation of bunny hop to waltz jump.

It doesn't feel the same because there's no weight shift, but it does give a feel for taking off forward -- and specifically from the outside edge with rotation for the bell jump/half axel.

But it's not something to dwell on once you're ready to actually start trying to rotate and land the axel.

As a kid I was also initially taught to attempt inside axels before axels as a way to get used to a (different) forward takeoff. But I didn't get very far with that and stopped trying once I got to working seriously on the axel.

[momsk8er]

My coach teaches bell jumps, but as a prelude to a flip, not an exel.

[patatty]

I don't think I ever would have had the courage to try an axel without learning the bell jump first. There is a huge difference between a waltz jump and an axel, at least when you are trying to learn the axel in the first place. Maybe little kids could make the transition from waltz to axel easily, but for me, I needed that intermediate step. I never had an issue with two-footing the jump (I've had plenty of other problems with it though!)

[doubletoe]

Do those skaters 2-footing their doubles also 2-foot their axels? If not, then it's probably something else that's causing the 2-footing on the doubles.

I think there is definitely some value to learning the bell jump (also known as the half axel). First, it gets the skater taking off straight up and rotating, unlike the waltz jump, where you jump out, rather than up, and really don't rotate. Second, it teaches the skater to stay straight in the air and point the toes of the landing foot, since you really have to if you're going to land forward on the toe. I think this prep work makes it safer to work on the axel, since the skater is more likely to stay straight in the air and pivot on the toe on landing rather than slipping and falling on under-rotated axels.

[Skating Jessica]

She lands on one foot or she lands on her butt.

j

I'm working up through my double loop and my coach does not, under any circumstance, allow me to two-foot my doubles. She'd rather see me fall than two-foot anything since at least going for the jump and still wiping out shows committment and an intention to land it, regardless of whether I actually do. (She also says the judges think this way too.) Whenever I two-foot something, she just shakes her head and says that I never planned on landing that particular jump because I never went for it.

[wasabi]

Two footing can actually be quite helpful in some senses -- you can tell a lot more by the landing of a two-foot jump than a regular one. When I lost my doubles as a kid, my coach had me practice lots and lots of two-footed singles. If you're off at all, you feel it! I also learned the bell jump, but as practice for double axel, not a single. I learned my single axel with a different coach than the double though, so that could be why.

Honestly, in the IJS system, a two-footed jump is worth so, so much more than a fall, that it is good to know how to two-foot to save yourself from a fall. In practice, though, they should be falling to learn the jumps, as a habit of two-footing is a lot harder to break than a habit of falling.

[doubletoe]

Two footing can actually be quite helpful in some senses -- you can tell a lot more by the landing of a two-foot jump than a regular one. When I lost my doubles as a kid, my coach had me practice lots and lots of two-footed singles. If you're off at all, you feel it! I also learned the bell jump, but as practice for double axel, not a single. I learned my single axel with a different coach than the double though, so that could be why.

Honestly, in the IJS system, a two-footed jump is worth so, so much more than a fall, that it is good to know how to two-foot to save yourself from a fall. In practice, though, they should be falling to learn the jumps, as a habit of two-footing is a lot harder to break than a habit of falling.

True. I think it also makes a big difference *how* the skater 2-foots the double. If the feet are side-by-side on the landing, it means the skater didn't stay over the landing side and/or pulled out of rotational position too soon. If the feet are crossed on the 2-footed landing, it means the skater isn't completing the rotations in the air and needs more height or faster rotation.

[ibreakhearts66]

True. I think it also makes a big difference *how* the skater 2-foots the double. If the feet are side-by-side on the landing, it means the skater didn't stay over the landing side and/or pulled out of rotational position too soon. If the feet are crossed on the 2-footed landing, it means the skater isn't completing the rotations in the air and needs more height or faster rotation.

good point, as usual.

I never learned a Bell jump, but am trying to imagine it. It does seem to me that learning that jump could contribute to a 2-footed jump landing. Since they're landed forward and on two feet, I doubt there is much (if any) weight shift. This jump just seems dangerous (not as in causing injury, but is causing bad habits) IMHO. You already see a lot of skaters pull out of axels early when first landing them, doing what I imagine would be an unintentional bell jump. If they're taught to jump like that, I would expect axels to be all the more frustrating.

I personally have never had a bad habit of 2-footing jumps. At one point my coach was telling me to 2-foot my 2loop to protect my severely messed up right ankle, but that's it.

[jskater49]

I'm working up through my double loop and my coach does not, under any circumstance, allow me to two-foot my doubles. She'd rather see me fall than two-foot anything since at least going for the jump and still wiping out shows committment and an intention to land it, regardless of whether I actually do. (She also says the judges think this way too.) Whenever I two-foot something, she just shakes her head and says that I never planned on landing that particular jump because I never went for it.

Yea that's how my daughter was taught and although I can see the points of those arguing for the two foot learning curve...I'm glad my dd was taught the way she was.

j