how much does an ice cut cost?

[Audryb]

There are two rinks near my house, one is about 15 min away and the other is about 30 min. In addition to being closer, the first rink is newer, has two ice surfaces and therefore more available ice time, and is in a much less congested area so it's more pleasant to drive to. Unfortunately, the ice there is often horrible. They will have 6 hours of public session on weekdays with no ice-cut, or they will have hockey camp and then have a public session without an ice cut in between. Weekday public sessions at this rink are 95% lower level freestyle and basic skills skaters and many kids are having lessons on this ice. They are not your typical crowded Friday night type sessions.

The couple times I've been to rink #2, the ice has been much better, they've run the zamboni after only a couple hours of public session, etc. Unfortunately as I work full time and am still in basic skills levels, the only time I can come and practice during the week is toward the end of public sessions at rink 1, and rink 2 doesn't have anything during the week that works with my schedule.

So, does anyone know how much it actually costs a rink to do an ice-cut? Is it a huge expense or something? Or do they just figure if nobody complains, why bother? (the ice is better on class sessions, though not always amazing, and I don't know about freestyles since I am not at a level where I'm allowed to skate on them yet)

[Kim to the Max]

Our club pays for 7 minutes @ $115/hour which figures to between $7 and $10 (I'm too lazy to do the math)...but we find that sometimes our rink is a bit lazy....like this morning...we had ice last night, then there was hockey....they didn't cut the ice after hockey and we were stuck with crappy ice for our 6-7:30am session....but, I bet they were cutting the ice for the hockey camp that was on right after us... :evil:

The rink I skate at on campus, on the other hand, is diligent about cutting the ice...between each scheduled ice time (public vs. hockey vs. figure skating, etc) they look at the ice and a lot of times will cut it just because...make for very, very nice ice...and if it's bad and we go into the office and say that it's bad, they will cut it for us no problem...for example...I was there skating with my coach (who was practicing her own stuff) on Wednesday and the ice was wonderfully clean and empty...pretty much 4 of us had skated that afternoon (us 2 and another 2 skaters I know), and there was hockey at 6:30, they cut the ice for hockey when they could have very well skated on the ice because it wasn't rutted or picked up or anything...

I wish my regular rink was as diligent, but they also don't like us...they would prefer that we weren't there...

[Skittl1321]

I don't know exactly how much they cost to run, but there are definetly operating costs associated with running a zamboni, the most expensive of which is ice time lost- though rinks who run it during public session don't really need to deal with that, I don't think. Most public skaters LOVE to watch the zamboni. But there are gas/electricity costs (and I imagine they aren't very efficient, water costs, repair costs due to use, probably a few other things. My guess though is the rink is lazy not cheap.

Our problem is that so few people at the rink CAN run the zamboni that often no one is there to do it.

[Audryb]

Thanks for the input.

I think I’ll try to talk to someone about it. The figure skating director is usually around during LTS time (tomorrow morning) so maybe she has some insight. I’m pretty new to all this, so I don’t want to just go asking random people why the ice is crummy, but maybe she can tell me if it’s an ongoing figure/ hockey issue that I won't get anywhere with, or even if it’s as simple as them being lazy and knowing who to ask to cut it if it’s really bad, like at Kim’s rink.

[RachelSk8er]

My rink is very good about ice cuts, either having them scheduled or monitoring the ice enough to determine when to cut it. They also do dry cuts and ice repair on both surfaces every morning. They cut with 2 zambonis so it only takes 5 minutes to cut (meaning they can squeeze in more hours of ice they can sell throughout the day). Our local minor league hockey team practices at our rink, and even though figure skaters dominate usage throughout the day (we have lot of home schooled kids who train all day), this place is all about hockey, hockey, hockey...so they don't want us (gasp) "ruining" the ice for the precious little hockey players. Sometimes if there is figure skating after hockey and one cut doesn't quite do it, so coaches will ask them to re-do it. Luckily things only get backed up by 5 minutes when this happens.

[patatty]

The rink that is most convenient for me cuts the ice maybe once a day, and the ice is amost always terrible, whether it's a public session or more expensive freestyle. I have complained many times, but the management doesn't listen. The owner says it's not worth the money to run the Zamboni if only a few skaters are going to be on the session. I almost never skate there anymore, which is a shame since it is only 5 minutes from my office. There have been times that I have skated on ice that wasn't cut after an adult hockey game the night before. If they would cut the ice between each session, I'm sure that there would be lot more than just a few skaters there, but they don't think about it that way. My coach has moved almost all of her skaters to another rink because of the ice situation.

[skaternum]

Well, most rinks gear their public sessions to the public, not figure skaters. Public skaters don't need clean ice, so I'd be surprised if you get very far with management at the rink. Most of them will just tell you to skate freestyle sessions if you want clean ice, in my experience.

[Kim to the Max]

Something I don't understand is how some rinks will not cut the ice...if you don't, you are just asking for the ice in general to be ruined and you will need to take out the ice more often...which adds to the operating costs...

I have a feeling that's what happens with my normal rink...they don't do the upkeep on the ice and by the end of the season the ice is completely horrible...

[Audryb]

Well, most rinks gear their public sessions to the public, not figure skaters. Public skaters don't need clean ice, so I'd be surprised if you get very far with management at the rink. Most of them will just tell you to skate freestyle sessions if you want clean ice, in my experience.

this is entirely possible, which is why I think I'll ask the figure skating director first for a little insight. Most of the people on the weekday afternoon public sessions are figure skaters though, so that's who's paying, and it seems like they ought to want to make us happy. ;)

once I pass basic skills, (currently working on Adult 3 and 4) I'll be able to skate on freestyles, and I probably will, but until then I'm stuck w/ public.

[RachelSk8er]

I think another thing that makes a difference is whether the rink is run by a city or by a private management company. City rinks, at least around here, always struggle more with payroll and other issues like upkeep, so there may not be someone around all the time who is able to cut the ice (or that same person may be the one collecting money or handing out skates for public sessions or fixing the toilets). I worked at a city run rink in high school and there were times when I was literally doing 3 jobs at once (i.e. working the concession stand, taking admission $$ for junior league hockey admission and moving nets out of the way for ice cuts between periods and then if there was a public session after the game, handing out rental skates). That rink has since closed.

The rink I skate now at is managed by a company (not sure if the city still owns it and it is leased, or if they flat out bought it...but when the city owned/ran it, but despite being in a fairly affluent community with decent tax revenue for rec programs and facilities, they still struggled to keep the rink running...this company actually just worked out a deal to take over another area struggling city-owned rink on a 10 yr lease deal). They bring in an obscene amount of revenue just from the advertising they sell. For example, one local company bought the naming rights to the facility as a whole. Inside, one surface is (fill in company name here) side. The other is named after another company. They sell advertising space on just about every wall, some on the ice surfaces, walls, you name it. What they charge for that is absurd, but companies will pay it (at the same time, the more $ they bring in every year doesn't stop them from raising our club's rates...don't get me started). So they have the money to have maintenance staff on hand. And someone working the front desk. And a cleaning guy. And a concession stand worker. Even when it's not peak time.

I'm not saying this is always the case, I've seen city-run rinks that are amazing. Ice time is cheap for residents, the facility is beautiful. I've seen others run by private companies that bombed. And I've skated at three university rinks that had the tuition and other money to keep those running beautifully. But the bottom line is that money is a huge issue.

[skaternum]

And let's face it -- most rinks don't make money on figure skating; they make money on public skating and hockey.

For a little perspective on it, the rink where I normally skate actually turns off 1/3 to 1/2 of the overhead lights inside the rink area when the hockey players leave and the figure skaters take the ice on Friday mornings. It literally costs them more to run all the lights for an hour than they collect in fees from the figure skaters. They've been doing this for years. It sucks, but I'd rather skate with less light than not skate at all.

[twokidsskatemom]

To run the zam costs our rink close to 40.00. Its run on propane and as fuel goes up, so does the cost.Its not the labor as much as the cost of fuel. I work there so I know.


Since our rink is private and trying to stay afloat, we dont ask unless its really needed.After hockey game yes, after two kids playing hockey no.
We dont run the big lights for fs either, when we pay what hockey pays we get the lights. I am happy that we have ice, so no conplaining from us.

[Audryb]

$40 each time can add up. That's what I was wondering when I started this thread, cause I really don't want to be a pain. There are days when I REALLY think they should do it (like yesterday, when there were hockey goal shaped depressions in the ice, and more than 2/3 of the surface looked/ felt like a giant cheese grater) but I don't need to be skating on glass either.

[fsk8r]

Isn't running the zamboni just one of the running costs of running an ice rink, like paying the electric, the staff, keeping the compressors running? The real cost of running an ice rink is running the refridge plant and cutting the ice is just a minor cost. Looking after the rink surface is important for all users. Leaving great big ruts in the ice is just as dangerous to the public as it is to those of us doing freestyle.
Personally it just sounds like poor management. Ice cuts should be in the schedule and stuck to. Even if it is only a couple of kids playing hockey. Most rinks could do with a bit of extra care and attention and that is what that would be.

[twokidsskatemom]

Isn't running the zamboni just one of the running costs of running an ice rink, like paying the electric, the staff, keeping the compressors running? The real cost of running an ice rink is running the refridge plant and cutting the ice is just a minor cost. Looking after the rink surface is important for all users. Leaving great big ruts in the ice is just as dangerous to the public as it is to those of us doing freestyle.
Personally it just sounds like poor management. Ice cuts should be in the schedule and stuck to. Even if it is only a couple of kids playing hockey. Most rinks could do with a bit of extra care and attention and that is what that would be.

then the price would go up so much the average skaters couldnt afford it
I am not talking about big ruts or huge holes. I am talking about when there a just a few hockey players we dont run the zam.Me, as a parent of a skater tell them not to run it for my skaters unless it really needs it.
We dont run it for hockey either if we just have a few rec skaters. Our rec skate is really fs ice for less money.
The holes from skaters doing big jumps is just as bad;)
If its ice with a bit of use or no ice, my skaters would rather have the ice.We dont live in aplace with a ton of rinks.We are happy with just having ice right now.

[ibreakhearts66]

My rink is also terrible with ice cuts. We'll have public sessions from 1.30 to 4.45 or 5.30 with no ice cut, even when it gets really crowded. Sometimes, if we beg, they'll do a cut. They're supposed to do one at 3.00, but they rarely do. It gets really frustrating! So I have no answer to your question, but am very sympathetic.

[Rusty Blades]

In talking to the maintenance staff at my rink last winter I believe they estimated the cost at $50 per flood. That included all the costs that would be saved if they DIDN'T do a flood. Their ice is rented by the 50-minute hour so floods are part of the schedule.

We used to have a problem with the QUALITY of the floods (too much of a hurry, leaving ruts and frozen slush) until the figure skating club threatened to go elsewhere. Since we buy around 8 hours of ice every day, 7 days a week, year-round, THAT got their attention. Now the head man is on duty when I show up at 6:15 a.m. and if I am not happy with the ice, it gets flooded again before our 7 a.m. start. (I am not a b#tch but he knows if I reject the ice, so will the head coach and I am MUCH nicer to deal with - LOL!)

[jskater49]

Well, most rinks gear their public sessions to the public, not figure skaters. Public skaters don't need clean ice, so I'd be surprised if you get very far with management at the rink. Most of them will just tell you to skate freestyle sessions if you want clean ice, in my experience.

Paying more for a freestyle session won't guarantee clean ice. Tranquility Ice in Omaha NEVER EVER makes the ice all day long. Last week my dd was going to have a lesson and her coach told the manager she had two students driving down from Ames and she wasn't going to subject them to that ice and changed the lesson to another rink on the other side of town.

It's not so bad at 10 in the morning (though bad enough since they start at 6) but once I had an afternoon lesson and it was just impossible.

That's right I named it - Tranquility in Omaha, Nebraska. Your ice sucks!

j

[pairman2]

I'll put in a little plug for my local rink here for those in the MD-DE corridor

Ice World in Abigdon MD is very good about ice cuts. Unless there's only a very few on a session, there is always an ice cut between EVERY session, winter and summer, which given the attendance, this equals at least 95% of the time.

The flip side to that is that sessions can get insane crowded, particularly on PM - evening freestyle sessions during the school year. There are some day freestyle sessions during the summer but not during the school year.

Weekend sessions during the summer are currently not too crowded and it's great to get in on an early session with clear cold ice on a hot humid weekend!

[AgnesNitt]

I've skated in numerous rinks in the DC area (including some in MD) rinks. A number of them will go for a three hour public session without a cut. (I can only think of two that do the ice every two hours).

My rink used to only do cuts based on some kind of eyeballing of the ice-so you could go into a freestyle with bad ice from a hockey session. Then we got a new rink manager in and the cuts are done on a regular basis--but still they save a little money by not doing a cut during the middle of the three hour public session. On the other hand, if you're skating on rentals do you even care? If that penny pinching helps keep my rink open, I don't mind.

I've identified the good zamboni drivers at my regular rink and I tease them (gently) by calling them the 'ice gods'. You can just see them puff up with pride that someone's recognized their skill. I recommend this as a tactic to anyone.

On the other hand the absolute worst driver is the head hockey coach. He needs to go back to remedial zamboni school.