Getting over 3-turn fear. (AKA I need a sports pyschologist.)

[Skittl1321]

Okay. I need help. How do you get over the fear of a move you know you can do, have done successfully many times, and have just suddenly got a mental block on?

My 3 turns going CCW have never been strong, but I've been able to do them. I passed PB moves- which obviously have these 3 turns. But lately I am FREAKING out about them. I can't start patterns that require me to turn backwards at the beginning because I'm so freaked out about the 3 turn I abort it everytime.

From a standstill, I'm fine. At speed- NO WAY. Even not at speed, but just from one or two pushes it's iffy if I'll get through the turn.

I am so scared of these, and have no reason for it. I didn't take a hard fall or something to scare me off of it. (Actually, I can't even get through the two foot turn at speed. I freak out and abort that too).

I do 5 CCW turns for every 1 CW turn I do when I practice these. BUT- it doesn't help. I can't do them at all with speed, so I can't practice them at speed- it's just a lot of practice in stopping a turn and getting frustrated. I do them at a standstill, hoping then I'll be able to do them from a push- but once I add that push in, I can't do it at all.

[Thin-Ice]

Don't do them "at speed"... do them at quarter-speed. Somewhere between at a standstill and too fast. Then move up to half-speed... then a little faster, and a little faster. Just make sure your technique is good. In fact, you might want to go back and see if you can remember how you learned to do them and go through all those prepatory exercises.

I have these freak-out moments too. Yesterday, I could not do the footwork my coach gave me.. because it starts with a tiny little waltz jump! :roll: We spent 10 minutes getting me to go into a smallish waltz jump but not hold a long landing edge. I had my coach hold my hand to help me get through this.

It happens to a lot of people.... or at least that's what I had several people tell me when I was bemoaning my lack of courage to do a teeny waltz jump at a really slow speed.

[Mainemom]

I broke my tailbone doing inside 3-turns and it took me a long time to even attempt one after that. I would start off with a nice push, get to the top of the circle and the brain would bail. So, I signed up for Adult group lessons for the last two sessions of our ice and by the end could do very nice ones, both left and right, thank you very much! I have such a fear of falling, after the tailbone incident, that it really holds me back from what others can do, but I had a really fabulous coach who was very matter of fact about what I could do and she gave me the confidence to try, and try and try again. I think just being on the ice with a bunch of other adults all trying to learn new things (and show our DD's that we can skate, too!) and fabulous coach Belinda gave me the confidence that I, too, can at least try an outside mohawk!

My point is, be patient with yourself. Don't beat yourself up about it but keep working on it steadily. If you really want it, it will happen (doesn't work with everything - I will never be able to do an axel, but then again, I don't really want to!)

[pairman2]

Slow is good, pads and even a helmet are good

Paralysing 'fear' probably means that your skating knee is TOTALLY locked and possibly also not at all bent. If a knee is totally locked it's very difficult to do any type of turn and your body is sending your brain a signal to say so. Your brain interprets the physiological signal as an emotional signal (fear)

3 turns from a stand still can be done with minimal knee action but there has to be at least a tiny bit of pliability. Faster 3's require knee action coordinated with the moment of turn and that quickly gets to the point happening too fast to 'think' through it. It has to be felt and committed to 'muscle memory' by ramping up the speed very slowly with literally hundreds of repetitions. If you take that progression too fast, the knee gets paralysed, locks, and sends a panic signal to the brain.

[Clarice]

How are you with the 2-foot front to back (or back to front) turns on a circle? I'd maybe go back to those, which you might feel more comfortable doing with a little speed, and check the knee action and the shoulders against hips twist and check action. That way you can work on the technique with more flow through the move and get used to how it feels before you try it again on one foot.

[Skittl1321]

How are you with the 2-foot front to back (or back to front) turns on a circle? I'd maybe go back to those, which you might feel more comfortable doing with a little speed, and check the knee action and the shoulders against hips twist and check action. That way you can work on the technique with more flow through the move and get used to how it feels before you try it again on one foot.

CCW- if I'm traveling at synchro speed, not at all. Slowly, I can do them well, but only if I intend to. (Like I can start my moves with a 2 foot turn if I begin thinking that, but an aborted 3 turn can't turn into a two foot turn if I've already convinced myself I can't do it). I'm working on those still too- especially since we have on in our current program. I try to do at least 3 circles of just 2 foot turns every practice.

I should also note- that if I'm doing circle footwork, and therefore holding hands with the team- I can do the 3 turns fine. It's just on my own that's the problem. (And my biggest problem with bronze moves- I can't START patterns. My mohawks also stink- so that's not really a viable option either. If I can get the first 3 turn on my power 3s, then I can continue, even building speed. It's just getting that first one.)

[Skittl1321]

Slow is good, pads and even a helmet are good



Honestly, I wish more people wore helmets in this sport. As is- I wouldn't wear one on the ice. Guess just the stigma attached to it. And like I said- falls aren't really my problem. I've never had a bad fall on a forward three turn. (Had a nasty one on a back inside 3 turn- but those aren't really the problem)

I don't have a lot of knee bend (ever), but I know I bend my knee at least as much as I ever do, when doing these. I think I get stuck in the "down" and am unable to get the "up" required at the moment of the turn. You're right in once I realize I'm stuck- that's when my brain takes over and doesn't let my leg do the work.

I really HAVE done these hundreds of times from a standstill. It just does NOT translate to any sort of speed at all.

[amyvw]

I can completely relate to this. I developed an irrational fear of my left forward outside edge after a few years worth of problems (that I did not recognize at the time to be related to pronation) where my edges and stuff would be fine when my boots were new but within 6 weeks or so, I started to progressively see my skills fall apart one by one. I never fell or anything like that, but the feeling of complete and utter instability scared the crap outta me. About a year before I quit skating entirely I was taking an adult freestyle class and the instructor made some offhanded comment to me about how she did not know why I was in that class b/c I was struggling so much at that point to do anything to my left....skills that had previously been just fine were practically gone. It was insane. I told her that I felt like something was not quite right with my left blade or boot (not knowing at the time I was pronating, and apparently pretty badly!) and she just rolled her eyes at me. :evil: Totally destroyed any shred of confidence I had left at that point.

Anyway, now that I have my new skates I'm working on my own to try and get over this stupid fear of all things left I developed. I keep trying to reason with myself that things will be better now that I know what the problem is/was and I've gotten new boots with proper corrections and all. But man, after so many years of trouble it's tough to just get over it. I have to keep reminding myself that all this stuff I fear is stuff I *could* do (and just lost as my foot issues reared their ugly heads when my previous 3 pair of boots broke in). I plan to take some lessons in the fall when our rink is open again....but for now, I'm just working on my mental blocks. ;)

[dbny]

I have the same problem, and I've managed to begin overcoming it this season. There are several things I've done that have helped. Here are a few:


Begin the 3 at the wall about 2 ft from a blue line. Try to turn on the blue line. Increase the distance as you get better.
Do the 3 from the wall, to the wall, on an even smaller lobe than the above exercise. Do not turn until you approach the wall. At that point, reach for the part of the wall you have just passed with your leading arm to initiate the turn.

Stand by the wall and just rock back and forth on your blades to feel the rocker and feel where you need to be to turn. It's possible to bend your knees and not be on the right part of the blade - for me that's a major freak out. You can't turn if you aren't forward enough, and relying on just bending your knees doesn't do it. I freak because I can feel that my weight isn't right for the turn.

After rocking until you can feel the turn spot, do the smallest ever 2 ft turns with the single aim of getting your weight onto that spot for the turn. I really mean small, you only need to move a few feet at a snail's pace for this to work.


I only started the rocking exercises last week after my coach mentioned giving "rocking forward" as part of her answer in one of her oral rating exams. Then I remembered DH on the ice when we both first started taking lessons. He spent hours looking like he was just standing around in a corner, when he was actually learining the feel of the rockers, and his 3's are easy. I was already doing FO threes fairly well at increasing speeds, but still had that problem with the first one in power threes when I started this. I got results from the rocking right away!

[doubletoe]

I know what you mean. I have this tendency to freeze when I have to do the LFI 3-turn on the alternating BI3-FI3 pattern. I can do a LFI 3-turn just fine as the second turn on the CW back outside double 3's, so I couldn't understand why this one should be so different. So I did the version I could do easily, then tried to figure out what I was doing on the scary one that was different. It turns out I was not bending my ankle and pressing into the ice with the ball of my blade on the entrance edge. Now, even though I'm still scared of them, I just do them at low speed and walk myself through each one, thinking, "Press, up, down". It totally works!

[jskater49]

I have had a real issue with 3 turns at speed....so that I would skid before the 3 turn into my half flip in my program to slow it down...and I still am starting my backward MIF at a standstill with the 3 turn

One thing, it may not be all in your head...very likely - your body is not set up right for the 3 turn and your body knows damn well that turn isn't going to work and it is stopping you - not your fear. I discoverd that with both 3 turns and mohawks...that if you concentrate on making sure your body is in the right position...you will not freeze up.

Just make yourself keep doing it and don't get discouraged...this was my issue with both 3 turns and mohawks...I now do beautiful 3 turns (sez my coach not just me) and it's the rollover/crossover in the power 3s of the bronze that we have to spend time on and I do them at good clip...and I'm even going into my mohawks with some speed.

You'll get past this!

j

[jazzpants]

Don't do them "at speed"... do them at quarter-speed. Somewhere between at a standstill and too fast. Then move up to half-speed... then a little faster, and a little faster. Just make sure your technique is good. In fact, you might want to go back and see if you can remember how you learned to do them and go through all those prepatory exercises.I second this suggestion!

I currently have a similar issue and now that I'm stroking much MUCH faster, I have even MORE of an issue to adjust those 3turns and mohawks for that matter) even MORE! In fact, it's the major part of this year's "fixing my in-between skating" goal. But believe me, my 3turns were MUCH MUCH slower back in 2003-2004 and I freak out trying to do 3turns "at speed."

What I would add to this suggestion is to work on getting the right position (arms, torso) FIRST so you're doing this consistently, then SLOWLY build up speed and do the same again... until you get to the point where you can do those too. (BTW: since you have pass the Pre-Bronze Moves test, I suggest eventually build up to the point where you can do the Bronze Moves test, particularly the dreaded forward power 3's (which I still have my issues doing but I'm finally "making peace" with them...and most of you that have read my lesson notes back when I was trying to pass Bronze Moves know exactly how much I HATED those forward power 3's back then!)

My other suggestion for just the FO3's is to start practicing "waltz 3's." (RFO3's, step down (well more push down) to LBO edge, BO mohawk (face/torso towards outside the big circle) PUSH to RFO edge and repeat... all the way around the big circle.)

[Skittl1321]

(BTW: since you have pass the Pre-Bronze Moves test, I suggest eventually build up to the point where you can do the Bronze Moves test, particularly the dreaded forward power 3's

I'm testing bronze in a few months. I CAN do the bronze 3 turns- and even increase speed in them- as long as I can do the first one. But it usually takes me four or five tries to hit that first one. That won't work for the test.

Right now I'm trying to learn to do mohawks a bit stronger so I don't have to do 3-turns into the back crossover patterns. I can't do mohawks at synchro speed- but I don't need that much speed to enter a pattern. Even though I like mohawks less- I can do them faster as long as I take my time on the edge (which isn't always an option in synchro where they are my big problem- they have to be done at exactly the right count.)


Thanks everyone for the suggestions on how to work on these. I'm glad to see other people have "been there" with the irrational fear of steps they can do.

[Sessy]

Maybe a fall is what you need. I find one often relaxes me.

[sk8lady]

Make sure you bend the knee of the skating leg as you turn, and make sure you're a little bit forward on the blade. I tend to skid doing 3-turns going into my jumps unless I remind myself to do those two things!

[JazzySkate]

Very good ideas here. For me, learning 3's when I took Groups was the hardest thing until, believe it or not, just before going into the turn (and with a bent knee and arms in place) I'd first turn my head towards the middle of the circle as if to "spot" something, then turn my shoulders. I found that if I looked straight ahead before turning it didn't work.

[GordonSk8erBoi]

I have the same problem, and I've managed to begin overcoming it this season. There are several things I've done that have helped. Here are a few:


Begin the 3 at the wall about 2 ft from a blue line. Try to turn on the blue line. Increase the distance as you get better.
Do the 3 from the wall, to the wall, on an even smaller lobe than the above exercise. Do not turn until you approach the wall. At that point, reach for the part of the wall you have just passed with your leading arm to initiate the turn.

Stand by the wall and just rock back and forth on your blades to feel the rocker and feel where you need to be to turn. It's possible to bend your knees and not be on the right part of the blade - for me that's a major freak out. You can't turn if you aren't forward enough, and relying on just bending your knees doesn't do it. I freak because I can feel that my weight isn't right for the turn.

After rocking until you can feel the turn spot, do the smallest ever 2 ft turns with the single aim of getting your weight onto that spot for the turn. I really mean small, you only need to move a few feet at a snail's pace for this to work.


I only started the rocking exercises last week after my coach mentioned giving "rocking forward" as part of her answer in one of her oral rating exams. Then I remembered DH on the ice when we both first started taking lessons. He spent hours looking like he was just standing around in a corner, when he was actually learining the feel of the rockers, and his 3's are easy. I was already doing FO threes fairly well at increasing speeds, but still had that problem with the first one in power threes when I started this. I got results from the rocking right away!

I REALLY like this advice. Thanks!

[dbny]

I REALLY like this advice. Thanks!

I hope it helps. I've made a lot of progress with these exercises. The rocking up to the toe is the hardest for me because (I discovered today in my lesson) my R heel moves up so far in my boot when I bend my knee and ankle that I really can't get enough pressure on the right part of the blade. Going to Klingbeil on Thurs morning for an adjustment.

Another great exercise that I forgot is to do two foot turns in a straight line being sure to set up for each turn with deeply bent knees. Keep your shoulders turned so one arms points in the direction of travel and the other to the opposite direction (just like on a circle). By doing this for the past 3 or 4 weeks, I've strengthened my torso and also am now feeling the rock from front to back and vice versa. When you turn F to B, if you have enough pressure on the fronts of your blades, you pick up some speed and the opposite is true for B to F. When I first started these, I would stop after several yards. Now I can do the entire length of the rink maintaining speed or gaining it back when I do lose it.

[Helen88]

What's helped me is having them in a step sequence. Just a really basic one, with 3s, bunny hops, drags, that kinda stuff. My FRI are still really dodgy, but they're improved since I've been doing them in a sequence. I think because just doing them again and again and again on their own just gave me cramp and made me dizzy, but I actually really like doing footwork so I practice that a lot anyway.

[phoenix]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7ZLvIhfbmGk&feature=related

This might help to study the knee action for a clean secure 3 turn--down on the stroke, rise & draw the free foot in to do the turn. (of course you don't want to try for such a high swinging free leg!)

When turns get a little wonky for me, it's usually because I'm trying to skate around the turn instead of up and straight through it. If you think "around' it usually will be a flub. The turn will happen because you rise straight up and press the edge more w/ your blade.

[dooobedooo]

Core strength is important. A few Pilates lessons will help you to understand relationship of tummy in/bottom under; and regular sit-ups will help keep a good strong core. Losing 3-turns is usually due to lack of core stability.

That, and edges, with a good rock of blade up to apex of 3, and rock back onto opposite edge for run-out.

[Skittl1321]

I did many of the drills today and identified the main source of my problem. I lack strength in my left leg. A Fully bent knee on the left side is about a tenth of what fully bent is on the right side. It does not bend any further. I'm not allowed to do strength training in my quads outside what the PT tells me, so I just have to hope- that that will build it up a bit. (I'm working on getting the inside and outside muscles even- the imbalance was a main cause of my knee injury) So even though I'm bending as far as I can, it's not enough to do these fast.

Did some good waltz 3s with the low freestyle class- I was able to do them to a medium level speed. Still can't do them fast enough (espeically for the first turn) to do a passable power 3 pattern. Like always, they were fine from a standstill, where the knee bend isn't quite as needed to get them around.

[renatele]

Many excellent tips posted above.

I have just one more thing to add (or expand on, really): when you try the 3 at any kind of speed, it might make a big difference right now of what your previous stroke/edge is. For example, I used to have trouble with that first 3 in the power-3s, and it made a big difference of what I did right before it: if I just took plain strokes, my body placement wasn't correct to go into the 3. It was very hard to get onto a decent LFO edge from a shallow RFI edge of the stroke. What worked better for me was doing a RFO swingroll, and then push off to LFO-3.

Glad you identified one of the main possible causes for the problem, though. If you are in PT, I'd fully expect for the knee to eventually become strong enough. Do make sure you bend your ankle when skating, as well.

[jwrnsktr]

Agree with jskater - your body is probably not positioned correctly - I have the same problem with left inside three and left inside mohawk - I have to be in the right position or is just will not happen. Also, maybe you could try, slowly at first, the power three's pattern down the ice....

[dbny]

I did many of the drills today and identified the main source of my problem. I lack strength in my left leg. A Fully bent knee on the left side is about a tenth of what fully bent is on the right side. It does not bend any further.

You don't need to bend your knee so much as to bend your ankle to press into the rocker. Regardless, I do the F/B two foot turn exercise down the length of the rink watching my reflection in the glass. I found I can actually see my knees in that reflection, and it's a great help.

Many excellent tips posted above.

I have just one more thing to add (or expand on, really): when you try the 3 at any kind of speed, it might make a big difference right now of what your previous stroke/edge is. For example, I used to have trouble with that first 3 in the power-3s, and it made a big difference of what I did right before it: if I just took plain strokes, my body placement wasn't correct to go into the 3. It was very hard to get onto a decent LFO edge from a shallow RFI edge of the stroke. What worked better for me was doing a RFO swingroll, and then push off to LFO-3.

ITA! Right before I broke my wrist, I could suddely do FO threes from just skating forward doing basically nothing. I've never gotten it back, and have found like you, that I need a prior edge to launch that FO three, which explained why I could do them from a BO Mohawk. My coach has me doing a few half swizzles prior to the first LFO three to try to get the right feeling for the turn. Can't test like that, of course. I like the FO swing roll idea, except that I hate "fancy" intro steps to moves. It always makes me think that the skater can't skate up to standard on the move itself, and is trying to show off first to influence the judges. I'm going to try your method anyway. At least it'll be fun!