What is the right number of lessons per week?

[momof3chicks]

My 7 year old has now passed out of LTS, completing FS6.

She takes 2 privates a week - usually for 25 minutes each. She also takes 1-2 semi privates a week- also about 25 minutes. She does an off ice class and ballet (1 hour and a half hour) as well as a 30 minute "on ice performance" class.

During synchro season she also skates an hour with team per week. Is this adequate for a 7 yo?

I also notice her coach is trying to strengthen some of the basic skills she has passed like her back spin, and some of her jumps- make them cleaner- is this normal? She is also working with her on her preliminary moves test- she is almost ready.

[jskater49]

Frankly that sounds like a lot for a seven year old, but that's up to you and her.

There is no "right" amount of lessons per week, as long as she's not stressed out and as long as you are scheduling enough practice time...because taking a lot of lessons without practice is a waste of time and money.

And yes you can expect to go back over basics continually. Passing a back spin or jumps in LTS is not the same as passing it for a USFS test. She should also be going over stroking and crossovers as well.

[Query]

My 7 year old...

Wow! Does she spend any time on ice outside lessons? I guess the limit is what you can stand and afford, and what she enjoys.

I'm an non-competitive adult learner, so everything is different.

Used to take two lessons a week, with one freestyle and one dance coach. Felt I needed to put in at least 20 hours/week to justify that and do plausibly well, and burned out. Both coaches were quite good, but they did everything so different I got confused. One good coach, one lesson/week is enough for me. In fact, much better.

My coach often decides to improve my older skills. Not only do I forget, but within USFSA many skills are specified different at different levels. I've helped out a bit with USFSA Basic Skills. Even the Basic 8 kids usually have basic strokes and edges that could easily improve, since the LTS/Basic Skills emphasis is on rapid progression rather than mastery. When they make me try to teach them something (we are a volunteer run program, and there is a shortage of high level coaches), that's what I work on, cuz I don't have the fancy jumps and spins the higher levels include myself. I made a bunch of Basic 5-8 kids work on "clean" forward crossovers, strong outside edges, two pushes, and neat feet.

Cute screen name.

[momof3chicks]

Frankly that sounds like a lot for a seven year old, but that's up to you and her.

There is no "right" amount of lessons per week, as long as she's not stressed out and as long as you are scheduling enough practice time...because taking a lot of lessons without practice is a waste of time and money.

And yes you can expect to go back over basics continually. Passing a back spin or jumps in LTS is not the same as passing it for a USFS test. She should also be going over stroking and crossovers as well.

It doesn't seem to bother her to take the lessons she takes. However, 'practice time' is tough at her young age- she tends to want to only practice things she is good at and not things she needs to work on. She does go over stroking and crossovers too. THANKS

[momof3chicks]

Wow! Does she spend any time on ice outside lessons? I guess the limit is what you and she can stand, and what you can afford. And not more than she can enjoy.

I'm an non-competitive adult learner, so everything is different.

Used to take two lessons a week, with one freestyle and one dance coach. Felt I needed to put in at least 20 hours/week to justify that and do plausibly well, and burned out. Both coaches were quite good, but they did everything so different I got confused. One good coach, one lesson/week is enough for me. In fact, much better.

Cute screen name.

Like I said to someone else, it is hard to get her to do effective practice on her own at her age. I have 3 dds, so that is why the screen name

[Skittl1321]

How much practicing is she doing outside of those lessons? It certainly seems like overkill for the number of lessons a 7 year old needs in a week (here most younger skaters take 1 a week, older 2-3, and will skate about twice as many days as they take lessons) but if you can afford it and she's having fun, then it's always fine. But if she's not practicing outside of lessons, then I would cut a lesson and not pay coaches prices for supervised practice. Giver her a list of elements, and a notebook to keep track of them. If your rink allows don't coach, but supervise. We often have parents remind skaters to work on their backspin, or their loop, or whatever- without telling them HOW to do it. (Which is, IMO, where the "parent as coach" problem starts. Not just telling them to practice)

I'm a bad comparision- as I'm an adult skater, but I have:
1 30 minute private, 2 30 minute group lessons a week (but only because of a great discount. I'd only do 1 if I had to pay full price)
2-3 hours of practice
1 hour of synchro

I've always heard you should have twice the amount of practice ice as lesson ice, as a rule of thumb.

[CaraSkates]

That does seem like a lot of lessons for a 7 year old...but everyone is different. I personally take three half hour private lessons per week (2 freestyle/moves and 1 dance lesson). I also skate five days a week with two off ice group classes and one on ice group lesson. I'm on summer break from ballet but normally I do that for 3-5 hours a week. That might seem like a lot but I only skate 1-2 hours a day. I need more shorter practice sessions to improve, I just can't skate for 3 hours at a time.

On the other hand, a friend who competes Intermediate, only skates 3 days a week but skates for 3 hours those days...we have different styles.

What helps me is that my freestyle coach has a specific warmup/practice list for us to follow, going from warming up to jumps/spins/axels/doubles/combojumps/combospins and then onto programs, moves and dance. It takes between 45mins-1 hour to complete (not including moves, dance, etc.) and then you have a good practice in. Maybe you could ask your daughter's coach to make one for her. Even the 7 & 8 year olds at our rink do this and it helps them a lot!

[momof3chicks]

How much practicing is she doing outside of those lessons? It certainly seems like overkill for the number of lessons a 7 year old needs in a week (here most younger skaters take 1 a week, older 2-3, and will skate about twice as many days as they take lessons) but if you can afford it and she's having fun, then it's always fine. But if she's not practicing outside of lessons, then I would cut a lesson and not pay coaches prices for supervised practice. Giver her a list of elements, and a notebook to keep track of them. If your rink allows don't coach, but supervise. We often have parents remind skaters to work on their backspin, or their loop, or whatever- without telling them HOW to do it. (Which is, IMO, where the "parent as coach" problem starts. Not just telling them to practice)

I'm a bad comparision- as I'm an adult skater, but I have:
1 30 minute private, 2 30 minute group lessons a week (but only because of a great discount. I'd only do 1 if I had to pay full price)
2-3 hours of practice
1 hour of synchro

I've always heard you should have twice the amount of practice ice as lesson ice, as a rule of thumb.

Unfortunately being a small kid, she tends to be whiny with me and constantly coming and asking me what she should practice and then saying she doesn't WANT to practice that when I give her a suggestion. I loved LTS because I didn't have to be involved in that. I cannot imagine that many 7 yos who would practice well on their own.

[Skittl1321]

Unfortunately being a small kid, she tends to be whiny with me and constantly coming and asking me what she should practice and then saying she doesn't WANT to practice that when I give her a suggestion. I loved LTS because I didn't have to be involved in that. I cannot imagine that many 7 yos who would practice well on their own.

Well since you were asking if it's enough, and not too much- if you can/want to afford it, I would think there is no reason to take out the supervised practice sessions.

And you're right- I don't think many 7 year olds are efficient on their own. That's why I said most parents direct them, at our rink, in what to do next.

[jskater49]

Unfortunately being a small kid, she tends to be whiny with me and constantly coming and asking me what she should practice and then saying she doesn't WANT to practice that when I give her a suggestion. I loved LTS because I didn't have to be involved in that. I cannot imagine that many 7 yos who would practice well on their own.

I have known many 7 year olds who practiced well on their own. If they really like it --you will have to nag them to get OFF the ice, not practice. If she's whiney on her own, you may be overdoing it. Skating is one of those things where you HAVE to be self-motivated and it starts young and if she's not...then I wouldn't be paying all this money for all these lessons.

Note, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with her not being motivated to skate on her own- that's normal --I'm saying that kids who are going to take to skating are not normal ;-)

j

[momof3chicks]

I have known many 7 year olds who practiced well on their own. If they really like it --you will have to nag them to get OFF the ice, not practice. If she's whiney on her own, you may be overdoing it. Skating is one of those things where you HAVE to be self-motivated and it starts young and if she's not...then I wouldn't be paying all this money for all these lessons.

Note, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with her not being motivated to skate on her own- that's normal --I'm saying that kids who are going to take to skating are not normal ;-)

j

She is motivated to skate, just not to practice the things she finds more challenging- I think that is pretty natural. If I let her do whatever, she'd just keep going.

[momof3chicks]

![/QUOTE]What helps me is that my freestyle coach has a specific warmup/practice list for us to follow, going from warming up to jumps/spins/axels/doubles/combojumps/combospins and then onto programs, moves and dance. It takes between 45mins-1 hour to complete (not including moves, dance, etc.) and then you have a good practice in. Maybe you could ask your daughter's coach to make one for her. Even the 7 & 8 year olds at our rink do this and it helps them a lot![/QUOTE]

This is a good idea- you know how kids get surly with parents but not coaches!

[jskater49]

She is motivated to skate, just not to practice the things she finds more challenging- I think that is pretty natural. If I let her do whatever, she'd just keep going.

Shrug. I'd let a 7 year old work on whatever she wanted to on the ice. But then I never was a nagger.

j

[Tennisany1]

My two bits as a mom of a 8 year old (grade 2 in school.) First, it doesn't seem like too much to me. My dd had more lessons and more ice time at 7, but I could / can afford it, and she really enjoyed it. She was also doing 3 ballet classes per week and still had two afterschools to play with friends.

About the practice thing. I think it is very rare to have a seven year old who practices effectively for more than about 1/2 hour at a time (most can't even do that.) Now I know I'm going to hear all about people's kids who do, but I also hear parents saying their kids practice really well, and when I watch that is not what I see. Again, there are always the exceptions that prove the rule.

The other problem with too much unsupervised practice at this stage is that they tend to practice bad habits over and over again, and also only practice what they are good at. Not many 10 year olds, let alone 7 year olds, practice stroking with correct posture, speed, edging etc.

Think about all the other sports kids do ... soccer, hockey, baseball, field hockey... how many of those require 7 year olds to practice on their own for 2 hours for every 1/2 hour of instructions .... none! Why, because they realize that most kids can't / won't do it. I know of a couple of really good little skaters who quit because they found it boring. These kids are hard working, they both do extremely well in ballet, but they simply didn't have enough lesson time in skating to keep them challenged.

I really think putting young kids in groups of two or three and giving them more lessons is the way to go in skating. They have started doing that at my dd's club for the juniors and it has been nothing but positive. The kids are working hard for the entire session, they are progressing, and those two things make them happy.

Sorry for the rant .....:oops: I'll stop now.

[Schmeck]

I also notice her coach is trying to strengthen some of the basic skills she has passed like her back spin, and some of her jumps- make them cleaner- is this normal? She is also working with her on her preliminary moves test- she is almost ready.

I would hope the coach is working to 'clean' your daughter's skills. As another person said, passing LTS is nothing like doing an element well enough to pass a USFSA test session (or at least it shouldn't be!) Just think of the elite senior level skaters - they still have coaches, and those coaches still 'clean' their skills as well.

[twokidsskatemom]

Imo since you asked :}
I do think that is overkill as far as lessons. I guess if you can afford it, then go for it. I am someone that believes that kids can learn to practice themselves.There is no reason your daughter cant have list of things to do, and practice them .7 isnt 4, and she should be able to stay on track for practice.
As far as not wanting to do some things, she really needs to know that skating works on building blocks. Your sit spin gets better if you work on shoot the ducks and dips. Your axle looks better when you have a nice high waltz jump.Even senior level skaters do moves every day and work on basics like stroking. It never goes away, some boring stuff and some fun stuff.
She has to learn at some point to work on her own, unless you have unlimited money.If she is ready to take prelim moves, I would assume she has enough to practice herself.
I like the semi private lessons but would drop something else.
My 2 cents worth.

[Lmarletto]

FS6 is double sal and one of the flying spins, right? It's been a while since DD has done group lessons, so I'm fuzzy on the 5-6-7 skills. For a 7yo working on doubles, that lesson schedule seems a bit light, but if she's continuing to make good progress, I think it's better to save your $ for when it gets really expensive. Kids with exceptional talent will manage on fewer lessons than your run-of-the-mill above average athlete.

I agree with jskater49 on the practicing. Kids who are going to be seriously competitive in the long term will display an almost freakish drive and focus when it comes mastering the skills their coaches put before them. And they are like that very young. I never let DD add another private lesson until her practice time exceeded her lesson time. Her friends who are medaling at regionals now, even at age 7-8, were spending 2-3x their lesson time practicing with very little input from their parents and still had to be dragged off the ice when mom or dad was ready to go.

A good coach will always continue to strengthen "old" skills. I guarantee that if you videotape your DDs backspin now and do it again in 5 years, you will be shocked you ever thought her current backspin looked good. My DDs coach always went back to perfecting a single jump before starting on the double. Once a jump becomes easy, skaters often let little technical details slip and unless the coach stays on top of that, the jumps may actually deteriorate over time.

[twokidsskatemom]

FS6 is double sal and one of the flying spins, right? It's been a while since DD has done group lessons, so I'm fuzzy on the 5-6-7 skills. For a 7yo working on doubles, that lesson schedule seems a bit light, but if she's continuing to make good progress, I think it's better to save your $ for when it gets really expensive. Kids with exceptional talent will manage on fewer lessons than your run-of-the-mill above average athlete.

I agree with jskater49 on the practicing. Kids who are going to be seriously competitive in the long term will display an almost freakish drive and focus when it comes mastering the skills their coaches put before them. And they are like that very young. I never let DD add another private lesson until her practice time exceeded her lesson time. Her friends who are medaling at regionals now, even at age 7-8, were spending 2-3x their lesson time practicing with very little input from their parents and still had to be dragged off the ice when mom or dad was ready to go.

A good coach will always continue to strengthen "old" skills. I guarantee that if you videotape your DDs backspin now and do it again in 5 years, you will be shocked you ever thought her current backspin looked good. My DDs coach always went back to perfecting a single jump before starting on the double. Once a jump becomes easy, skaters often let little technical details slip and unless the coach stays on top of that, the jumps may actually deteriorate over time.
I thinks she means freeskate 6 part of basic skills before pre pre level.It has axel prep stuff not axels or doubles.
Freeskate 6
A. Alternating back crossovers to back outside edge. B. 5 step mohawk sequence, clockwise and counter clockwise. C. Camel/sit spin combination, 5 revolutions. D. Split jump/stag jump. E. Waltz jump/ 1/2 loop/salchow. F. Lutz jump. G. Axel - Walk through, preparation, jump. (*Axel does not need to be landed to pass this test, skater should have an understanding of the mechanics.

[littlekateskate]

It doesn't seem to bother her to take the lessons she takes. However, 'practice time' is tough at her young age- she tends to want to only practice things she is good at and not things she needs to work on. She does go over stroking and crossovers too. THANKS

Great lol.. I was hoping my dd (almost 5) in a year or so would start to practice on her own (the things she cant do). She is in the same boat loves to practice things she can do :)

[Kim to the Max]

Great lol.. I was hoping my dd (almost 5) in a year or so would start to practice on her own (the things she cant do). She is in the same boat loves to practice things she can do :)

As someone else mentioned, a "practice" notebook might be helpful. Coaches will write down what the skater needs to do and how many times (sometimes they will go as far as writing down how many jumps need to be landed, how many revolutions on a spin, etc.). I have seen both paper, and laminated sheets with wet-erase markers. This gives kids a sense of direction and purpose so they are not out there just lost... I've also seen adults use this as well...

[jenlyon60]

A couple of the coaches at one of the rinks I skate at use the notebook approach. Complete with having a list of elements/skills to be practiced, the number of times to go through the element/skill, and asking the skater to mark off each element they practice as they do it.

The coach then checks the notebook at each lesson and at least at the beginning, will do the sticker number or something similar to reward the skater for practicing all their elements/skills the assigned amount of times.

It's cute seeing the kids do their jumps or spins or moves, then come back over to their notebook to mark it off.

I used to keep a notebook, when I was training more seriously, to keep track of what I had practiced, and how it felt. I would write down things to remember from each lesson, also, to refer back to, as I practiced. It helped alot (and I'm a 40+ year old adult skater...)

[momof3chicks]

Shrug. I'd let a 7 year old work on whatever she wanted to on the ice. But then I never was a nagger.

j


You are right, it is a legitimate approach and I have considered maybe that being the way to go.

[momof3chicks]

I thinks she means freeskate 6 part of basic skills before pre pre level.It has axel prep stuff not axels or doubles.
Freeskate 6
A. Alternating back crossovers to back outside edge. B. 5 step mohawk sequence, clockwise and counter clockwise. C. Camel/sit spin combination, 5 revolutions. D. Split jump/stag jump. E. Waltz jump/ 1/2 loop/salchow. F. Lutz jump. G. Axel - Walk through, preparation, jump. (*Axel does not need to be landed to pass this test, skater should have an understanding of the mechanics.


Yes- that is what I meant

[sk8tmum]

Me, I let the coach deal with the practice thing. I don't want to be the "co-coach" because I may be interfering with the coach's plan. Besides, I want that coach/student relationship to be built, not the coach/student/mom one. If they're off-task: the coach needs to speak to them, or organize them. If you're concerned that they're not practicing right/enough, then, maybe touch base with the coach and ask, and, maybe, ask if the coach wants you to monitor or not. Then, go with it :)

I was actually told in no uncertain terms once that it was the coach's job to teach work ethic and practice structure to the student, and, that it was something that the coach considered as part of their skater development role. Works for me ... less stress with the kids. Yippee. Also seems to be working; I can leave the rinkside and not worry, even with my (barely) 6 year old. But, that's the relationship we have with our coach, I know it differs based on how the coach works with students.

Besides ... I remember what I thought was two weeks of "noodling around" was actually an exercise in footwork and rockers. Ooops. :oops:

[Kim to the Max]

If they're off-task: the coach needs to speak to them, or organize them. If you're concerned that they're not practicing right/enough, then, maybe touch base with the coach and ask, and, maybe, ask if the coach wants you to monitor or not. Then, go with it :)

I was actually told in no uncertain terms once that it was the coach's job to teach work ethic and practice structure to the student, and, that it was something that the coach considered as part of their skater development role.

I agree...when I was a kid, all of the coaches used to be on the watch for people just goofing off or standing around and it didn't matter if you were their student or not, they would get on your case to get working...and then they would tell your coach...that worked out well because they saw you enough and knew what you were working on well enough to tell when you were working or when you were goofing off...

While I'm not a coach, I am generally in the position of motivating our younger skaters to keep working or to stop goofing off...many of the parents have actually told me that it's okay if I tell them to get moving...sometimes I need to be creative (a skater wanted to know my middle name, so I told her I would tell her if she skated hard for 2 whole sessions...I know, I'm mean!)...I also tend to lead by example...I almost always work hard on my jumps/spins/and moves, and my coach has commented that she thinks that that has rubbed off on some of the others...I think that it is also easier for me because I am on the ice with them and I also have a relationship with all of them...so they will often listen to me better than their parents or their coaches.....

[jp1andOnly]

practice notebook is the way to go. At the end of the practice session if she checked off everything she ewas to practice you can give a sticker. Most 7 year olds just don't know what to do without structure. Creating a notebook makes it fun and then she can practice what she likes and doesn't like.

Talk to her coach and see if she can get one started.

[momof3chicks]

practice notebook is the way to go. At the end of the practice session if she checked off everything she ewas to practice you can give a sticker. Most 7 year olds just don't know what to do without structure. Creating a notebook makes it fun and then she can practice what she likes and doesn't like.

Talk to her coach and see if she can get one started.

I talked with her coach last night.
This is exactly what we agreed to- stickers and all! My dd agreed with this approach as well.

And if she is having trouble with something, she will be able to tell by the lack of stickers (sometimes she forgets how to do a certain thing that is new or that she hasn't done in a while)

Thanks all

[singerskates]

Unfortunately being a small kid, she tends to be whiny with me and constantly coming and asking me what she should practice and then saying she doesn't WANT to practice that when I give her a suggestion. I loved LTS because I didn't have to be involved in that. I cannot imagine that many 7 yos who would practice well on their own.


What about getting her to play skating games that get her to practice the things she should be practicing? You could see about talking to her coach and some of the other parents and their coaches about doing games like "Add On", "Follow the leader" "Mirror" (this one needs a skater who is a CCW skater and one that is a CW skater for each mirror set) and so on. There are ways to trick young kids into practicing things they don't want to do and to stop the whinning.

I'm an adult skater who has PA'd on CanSkate (learn to skate in Canada), PrePrelim and PrePowerSkate. I've also been a volunteer music teacher at a private school for 5 years and a youth group leader at my church. Plus, adult skaters are kids at heart in bigger and older bodies.

How the game "Add On" works; one of the moms, dads or coaches calls out a simple move or element to the first skater, then the next skater has to repeat that jump and then add on to it whatever is called out next, then the first or next (depending how many skaters are playing) will call out another element to add on to what has already been called out. Sometimes it's not about changing elements but doing more of the same then any other skater. You can even mix levels of skaters too by saying to one skater to do half jumps and the other full 1 rotation jumps or when they move up to a session with higher level skaters, they do 1 rotation of a toe loop but their more skilled skater friend has to do a double toe loop and so on. Same with spins. A beginner can do a two footed sit spin, while your daughter could do a reg. forward sit on one foot and then maybe a more advanced skater could do a forward sit in a broken position instead. Each one practicing what they need to do at their own level, yet playing against each other having fun.

For Mirror, I'd make sure to have them timed slightly out of sinc so that they end up crisscrossing each one after the other in their paths if jumping or doing stroking. This will also help them when having to run through programs so they don't get too nervous about other skaters skating near them as they go through their programs.

singerskates