Students with Disabilities

[joysk8]

Last year I received a flyer advertising a seminar about teaching students with disabilities. I have noticed a rise in students who have things such as low muscle tone, developmental disabilities, down syndrome, as well as ADHD and Autism. I am waiting to receive information again but have not. I am in the New York/New Jersey/CT region and would like to expand my knowledge in this area. Does anyone have any information ? Thanks !

[littlekateskate]

I dont know much about teaching children with dissabilities. However ISI has their "special skater" program. Maybe if you go through them they may have something.

I have tried to sign my son up for lessons. But have quit. He is Autistic/Adhd and you never know what kind of mood he will decide to be in. I can get there and he be in a great mood and then have a complete 360 and refuse to get on the ice. And there are days without a lesson he will beg to skate. You never know. And its hard to commit to spending money when you dont know if you child will skate. So in general its just not worth it :(

Good Luck!

[Isk8NYC]

Check with the office at Mennan or South Mountain arena.
I believe both facilities have special skater programs, and they're municipal rinks so they try to serve a broader population.
You might want to ask for the person who coaches those skaters now; there are usually 2 or 3 specialists. They can direct you to the special olympics site.

I've seen requests for volunteers to coach/assist posted on their bulletin boards in the past.

Mennan: http://www.morrisparks.net/aspparks/mennenmain.asp

South Mountain / Richard Korpi: http://www.essex-countynj.org/p/index.php?section=sm/o&ImgLoc=images/sm

[w.w.west]

Last year I received a flyer advertising a seminar about teaching students with disabilities. I have noticed a rise in students who have things such as low muscle tone, developmental disabilities, down syndrome, as well as ADHD and Autism. I am waiting to receive information again but have not. I am in the New York/New Jersey/CT region and would like to expand my knowledge in this area. Does anyone have any information ? Thanks !


Try contacting the Special Olympics office in your area. As I was watching the Special Olympic skaters at the PSA conference, I had a conversation with someone who has a special needs skating program at their rink. We are interested in starting one at our rink. She told me that the SO offers training for coaches. Turns out the person I was talking to ended up bein only 90 miles from our rink so we will be in conact with them. Since your from the New York area, I think that is where SABAH and an organization called Gliding Stars is based. We looked into coming out there, but it is too far for us.

I have tried to sign my son up for lessons. But have quit. He is Autistic/Adhd and you never know what kind of mood he will decide to be in. I can get there and he be in a great mood and then have a complete 360 and refuse to get on the ice. And there are days without a lesson he will beg to skate. You never know. And its hard to commit to spending money when you dont know if you child will skate. So in general its just not worth it :(

Very understandable. I have a son with Autism and know exactly what you are talking about. Having a special needs child is the main driving force for me wanting to start a program at our rink. The director is very open, and I plan to address this issue as well. Maybe having a "pay as you go" fee much like a drop in rate could be implemented. Please feel free to share with me your other concerns so we can buiild a good program. Not sure where you are from, but maybe mentioning to the director of the rink about starting a special needs program or maybe there is one in your area that you don't know about yet?

[littlekateskate]

Maybe having a "pay as you go" fee much like a drop in rate could be implemented. Please feel free to share with me your other concerns so we can buiild a good program. Not sure where you are from, but maybe mentioning to the director of the rink about starting a special needs program or maybe there is one in your area that you don't know about yet?

Definetly a pay as you go would be quite helpful. With the number of Dr. Apts and other things that go on with our children it woudl be a definite plus. However for me most days that still wouldnt cut it, lol. He can be having a great day get his skates on and then complete melt down. You just never know when its going to hit.

And it has to be consistent on who the instructor is. Most these kids cant take change very well. I think with my son that would be a huge factor. If he was comfortable getting on the ice with the same person over and over.

Lots of games would be huge benefit as well.

My son had a great coach where we used to live. Even if he was having a bad day the coach would pick him up carry him out on the ice and give him a hockey puck. Sometimes he just need "help" getting out there. And he would turn it around. The coaches cant be "afraid" of these kiddos. As well for my son I think a male is important. He is little but needs someone strong incase he did have a melt down while on the ice. These kids are sooo strong when they get in their "moods".

Sorry i got too much into it. But feel free to PM me if you have questions and need ideas. Not only do I have my son I worked in a severe special ed classroom for elementary age children. (this was before my son! I guess it was gods way of letting me practice!)

[Schmeck]

Sorry, but 'pay as you go' would bankrupt the program - ice costs are in the hundreds of dollars an hour. You'd need a solid base of skaters to pay for the ice, coaches, and insurance.

I've worked in the special education department of my local school system for more than 5 years now, and we've had some students with special needs in our local learn-to-skate program. I've noticed that one thing that really helps is to have well trained, mature learn-to-skate helpers work one on one with skaters with special needs.

My daughter Icy was very good with the most difficult of our skaters. She could talk them out of kicking the ice with their skates, get them chasing beanie babies around the boards, etc. Playing lots of games helps, as does changing the elements they work on from time to time.

One thing to be thinking of though - if a child with special needs has a problem on the ice, that child has razor sharp blades on the bottom of his/her feet - can you guarantee the safety of anyone working with that child? I've seen more than my share of meltdowns (and of course it's not always the children with special needs!) and the kicking of the feet scares me to death - you could bleed to death out there before help arrives. I think a child should not be skating if that child does not appreciate the seriousness of wearing skates.

[littlekateskate]

Sorry, but 'pay as you go' would bankrupt the program - ice costs are in the hundreds of dollars an hour. You'd need a solid base of skaters to pay for the ice, coaches, and insurance.

I think a child should not be skating if that child does not appreciate the seriousness of wearing skates.


Well in that case then most young children wouldnt be allowed to wear skates. HOW RUDE! Just because my child is autistic should he not be allowed to skate. He would never understand the seriousness of wearing skates.

An idea for pay as you go could be there are so many spots and you canll in advance that day if you are coming. Just like with open gyms and such for little tikes. I would be quite nervous for anyone other than an adult working with my son for their safety. You cant explain to youth the importance of the situation. One small thing to upset a kid and make them mad could get a young child hurt. And its not just the skates that could hurt them.

[w.w.west]

Sorry, but 'pay as you go' would bankrupt the program - ice costs are in the hundreds of dollars an hour. You'd need a solid base of skaters to pay for the ice, coaches, and insurance.


If it is run right, it wouldn't. It also depends if it is a private or city run rink. Private rinks have more flexibility in that area. It could be tacked on to the end or before a LTS session. There are ways to make things happen.


One thing to be thinking of though - if a child with special needs has a problem on the ice, that child has razor sharp blades on the bottom of his/her feet - can you guarantee the safety of anyone working with that child? I've seen more than my share of meltdowns (and of course it's not always the children with special needs!) and the kicking of the feet scares me to death - you could bleed to death out there before help arrives. I think a child should not be skating if that child does not appreciate the seriousness of wearing skates.

There are no guarantees with anything or anyone. Do three, four and five year old tots appreciate the seriousness of wearing skates? This whole paragraph is confusing to me

[joysk8]

Hi - thanks for everyone's input especially parents of sp. needs. I was thiking of having a special needs time slot after groups, as someone mentioned. For now - whenever a parent calls with a special needs child - I am the go to person. The feedback that I get from parents is that they are glad that I am a parent. I do not have a backround in education (except that I seem to have coached some sport or another my whole life). I have taken a class in autism and would love to take more (just need time and money !!).

Speaking of money, I am always concerned about the cost (being a parent myself). I don't know, but I imagine that there are many extra costs with special needs kids (even though there are services through schools, etc) and I would not want this to be an extra burden...BUT, I'm not at the point where I can volunteer my time - I would consider a "special rate" (no pun intended !) for such kids. I want to formulate a real plan before I execute it - I firmly believe in consistency in any environment and don't want to go off half cocked. Thanks for the links - I have worked with the summer special olympics and it is truly something that every human being should volunteer for once in their life. The true joy and raw emotions of the athletes was something I will never forget.

[Schmeck]

ANY child that cannot understand that they have knife blades on their feet should not be skating - and my daughter has the scar to prove it when she got kicked by a young skater she was trying to help. Luckily she just got caught on her hand, not her face or neck. She was smart enough to keep her face away.

littlekateskate, if your child can be trusted 100% not to kick if he has a meltdown with skates on, let him skate, I'm sure an LTS program would love to have him. But what do you say to the person who gets seriously injured/maimed if your child accidentally hurts them during a meltdown, especially if it is another child? It has to be safety first. I didn't mean for it to sound like he shouldn't skate because he is autistic. He shouldn't skate if he would endanger anyone else on the ice, including himself. That goes for any skater, young or old.

Our local tot program keeps a very low student/staff ratio, and the kids have helmets, mittens and puffy snowsuits on. I've seen those suits ripped by blade contact, and am always thankful that they make snowsuits so padded!

joysk8, if it is a LTS program, there should not be any extra cost - and I believe it is written into the ADA that they cannot charge more for a disabled person in any business situation. But I would make sure you know the child's needs and issues up front, so you can plan for staffing.

w.w.west, our rinks here charge by the 50 minutes, with a 10 minute Zamboni break. There really is no way to 'squeeze in' another session, without taking away from other programs. Here in the land of youth hockey-trumps-skating, the ice time is very precious, and no one would be willing to give up any time if the money wasn't guaranteed. There are teams and clubs on waiting lists for ice time around here. The only time we have pay as you go is for public skating, because it is mandated by the state.

[w.w.west]

ANY
w.w.west, our rinks here charge by the 50 minutes, with a 10 minute Zamboni break. There really is no way to 'squeeze in' another session, without taking away from other programs. Here in the land of youth hockey-trumps-skating, the ice time is very precious, and no one would be willing to give up any time if the money wasn't guaranteed. There are teams and clubs on waiting lists for ice time around here. The only time we have pay as you go is for public skating, because it is mandated by the state.

Okay, so it can't be done at your rink. What I'm saying is that it can be done. I am lucky to live in an area that has ice time to choose from on a daily basis due to the many rinks in the area. I know some would kill for that. Like I said, I am lucky. I'm also lucky to work in a rink that is willing to try new things. We do have two ice surfaces except for two months out of the year.

[sk8lady]

I coached for a number of years in a city-run program. We never knew if the children had disabilities as the parents did not tell us. When children in my class behaved violently, I removed them from the ice and explained to the parents that they were being unsafe and they could not be on the ice if their behavior created a safety hazard for themselves or others. I usually also asked if there were any techniques Mom and Dad used at home that seemed to work in helping the child to behave appropriately. I do the same thing with my hockey kids (although the tolerance level for little hockey players behaving violently is a lot higher!!). At least one kid had extensive problems that I already knew about from working with him at my "day job"--because i had extensive knowledge of his issues and behaviors, I had a great deal of success working with him, even though I had to remove him from the ice numerous times.

From my point of view, if you have a child, disabled or not, who routinely behaves violently--punching, hitting, spitting, shoving, and ESPECIALLY kicking--skating is probably not the best option for them unless there is a special needs program equipped to deal with these behaviors.

[littlekateskate]

From what I got was she is wanting to start a group for just disabled students. She isnt adding on to LTS this is completely seperate. Just like a mommy and me from what i get.

And most students with disabilities (all that i have known-according to your standards would not be allowed to skate).

I have not yet met a mentally disabled child who you could garuntee 100% of the time wouldnt have a melt down. But that is why I suggested only adults be working with this children. And any child with a learning disability or a mental one who is trying to learn something new and hard is going to get frustrated. And well if you havent spent much time around these guys frustration is normally what leads to melt downs.

My son luckily is not coached by those who think as some of you do. He had a great guy who was awesome with him. And if and when he had his "issues" the guy was able to hold him and prevent himself from injury. And he wasnt in serious harms way because he was aware and physically able to control the situations.

My child isnt alone in this. I have been a few times to another local rink who does have ISI Special skater and I have seen this young girl i would guess age 7-8 ish have melt downs on the ice too. It sucks but it just takes the right people to be able to work with them.

[jskater49]

ANY child that cannot understand that they have knife blades on their feet should not be skating - and my daughter has the scar to prove it when she got kicked by a young skater she was trying to help. Luckily she just got caught on her hand, not her face or neck. She was smart enough to keep her face away.

littlekateskate, if your child can be trusted 100% not to kick if he has a meltdown with skates on, let him skate, I'm sure an LTS program would love to have him. But what do you say to the person who gets seriously injured/maimed if your child accidentally hurts them during a meltdown, especially if it is another child? It has to be safety first. I didn't mean for it to sound like he shouldn't skate because he is autistic. He shouldn't skate if he would endanger anyone else on the ice, including himself. That goes for any skater, young or old.

.

I'm sorry but I think that anyone who needs a 100% guarantee that their child will not be injured is the one who should not allow their child on the ice.

j

[joysk8]

Hi again - a lot of discussion here tends to be towards behavioral issues. We all have the tough kids in classes and that could be an endless discussion. My interest was also towards developmental disabilities which could utilize special walkers and harnesses. The program I believe I got the flyer from was "Gliding Stars ?" but there was no location near me. There is a program called, I believe "Pegasus" where children ride horses to build body strength (and have fun). A skating program, might do the same for some (not all).

Here is one of my frustrations - After talking to the parents of one of my students about her lack of improvement - they told me that she had low muscle tone (I had previously thought so but how do I tactfully ask ??). I then congratulated them on how WELL she was doing and that they should tell her PT that she was doing this -- they should have told me first though?? More info is always helpful.

I guess I am just thinking out loud- I'm glad to have a nitch though in being good with the beginners - I'll leave the high level kids and all the challenges that come with that category to the other coaches.

[mdvask8r]

Be careful when purchasing walkers for your program. We have several walkers of various heights, but they are all so narrow at the bottom they prevent the skater from performing a swizzle. We finally made our own walker out of PVC pipe with a wide base --> BIG SMILES from skaters AND instructors.

[TiggerTooSkates]

I'm sorry but I think that anyone who needs a 100% guarantee that their child will not be injured is the one who should not allow their child on the ice.

j


I'm not a parent, but I have worked in job training with autistic adults, and I have to say this: you're completely right.

I've met so called (and I do hate the word, so forgive me here) "normal" children who have an off day and flip out because they're too young to know how to control their emotions yet. And I've seen autistics who also seem to momentarily lose everything they've worked so hard to achieve and they revert to their old ways of dealing with their overwhelming feelings - they blow up and act out, despite all their hard work and effort. (Shoot, I'm fortunate enough to be perfectly healthy, and while I can't say I've thrown a temper tantrum since I was about four or five, I can say that even I've chosen some unwise ways of dealing with feelings - and I bet we all have, in our own grownup ways.)

I would say that if a parent has a child affected by autism to the point where that particular child is almost impossible for "outsiders" (i.e., people the child doesn't know) to handle, then that parent is probably experienced enough with that child to know that having him or her within reach of blades is probably not a good idea. (Whew!) As with all children and people, everyone is not suited well to every thing or activity - as anyone who's ever seen ME try to, for example, draw a straight line without the assistance of a ruler could attest to, where I've had autistic clients who have sold their artwork and paintings and made impressive money with it!

So forgive me for butting in here - but I salute the parents, coaches, and teachers of these most special of children - and HATS OFF to all of you for wanting to give them even a taste of this sport that we all share a love for. I wish you nothing but the best in these endeavors!

[w.w.west]

So forgive me for butting in here - but I salute the parents, coaches, and teachers of these most special of children - and HATS OFF to all of you for wanting to give them even a taste of this sport that we all share a love for. I wish you nothing but the best in these endeavors!

HATS OFF TO YOU!! You get it! That's exactly what I would like to do. I'm a parent of a child with autism and a coach who would like everyone to have a chance at something. Want to move to Michigan?

[Isk8NYC]

Here is one of my frustrations - After talking to the parents of one of my students about her lack of improvement - they told me that she had low muscle tone (I had previously thought so but how do I tactfully ask ??). I then congratulated them on how WELL she was doing and that they should tell her PT that she was doing this -- they should have told me first though?? More info is always helpful.That does happen sometimes and I think it's mainly that the parents are being overly hopeful. It also happens when they sign up right before the lesson or underestimate the time needed to get ready for skating. I'm always hanging out early before the first lesson with beginners because I do some off-ice teaching first. However, not all instructors make that time, which is the parent's opportunity to clue us in discreetly. In cases where "cue phrases" are needed (such as "look at me" or "let me see your eyes" to get the skater's attention) that chat SHOULD take place.

I've had parents tell me up front that their child has an issue and that helps me manage the lesson much better. I've also had parents tell me about an issue that doesn't really show up in that lesson. My favorite example is the girl with hand trouble. She was an absolute ANGEL for the first lesson, so I didn't understand why the mother had told me she had control issues. By the third lesson, the child was a DEVIL: swatting at all the other kids randomly. I guess she just needed to warm up a bit. (Time outs worked with her.)

I can understand the point made earlier about kicking with skates. I also do parent visit/time outs for that very dangerous maneuver. I will not put myself or others on the ice at risk in that situation, regardless of ability. In my teaching, the worst on-ice kickfest came from the cutest little 3 yr old boy who simply did NOT want to skate. He loved everyone, enjoyed the games and toys, but only off-ice. He threw the most awful tantrums I have ever seen and frankly, he was dangerous. He wasn't just kicking - he was trying to hurt the people on the ice. No, he was not challenged in any way.

*PC POLICE - PLEASE DO NOT READ ON*
I'm not sure if I'm using the correct terms, so understand that I mean this in a positive way. I was a Special Olympics skating volunteer many years ago. I know several children with different problems/issues who skate. I've never seen them kicking or throwing tantrums. I understand that every person is different and I just wanted to point out that misbehavior isn't limited to those with different abilities. And those differently-abled people aren't necessarily violent or dangerous. (I hope I said that right, sorry if I didn't.)

One last note: affordability.
There are grants available from UCP and other organizations that can cover equipment costs and/or lessons.
I don't know how to apply for them, but I know of 2-3 special skaters who benefited from this generosity.

As for the programming side, the school/instructor could charge a registration fee to put the special skater on the group lesson rolls at the beginning of the season. That provides some insurance coverage. I wouldn't make this a session on its own, but a drop-in, private or semi-private lesson (2:1 student:teacher ratio at max) during the regularly-scheduled group lesson session would go a long way toward mainstreaming these skaters into group lessons. Obviously, it would have to be by appointment because otherwise there might not be an instructor available.

[TiggerTooSkates]

HATS OFF TO YOU!! You get it! That's exactly what I would like to you. I'm a parent of a child with autism and a coach who would like everyone to have a chance at something. Want to move to Michigan?

Maybe - how much is ice time? 8-):yum:

[littlekateskate]

Be careful when purchasing walkers for your program. We have several walkers of various heights, but they are all so narrow at the bottom they prevent the skater from performing a swizzle. We finally made our own walker out of PVC pipe with a wide base --> BIG SMILES from skaters AND instructors.

One of our local rinks made there own as well. They seem to work quite well. As well they were able to make them all different heights for the different ages which is cool. But so many coaches at are rink discourage it they got rid of them.

[FSWer]

Say,while were on the topic. I was wondering if there's anyone out there that can answer this for sure. I've always wondered. If your in a state program like me and are under budge. Is it possible to train to become a famous skater,just like any other skater who's famous in the world? This is just a question of wonder. Thanks.

[dbny]

Say,while were on the topic. I was wondering if there's anyone out there that can answer this for sure. I've always wondered. If your in a state program like me and are under budge. Is it possible to train to become a famous skater,just like any other skater who's famous in the world? This is just a question of wonder. Thanks.

Probably not. Training to reach the top in figure skating costs about $80,000 a year. Skaters who train like that do not do much of anything else. They are mostly home schooled and tutored. They also have to study ballet and do off ice exercise programs like Pilates.

Most people can become good skaters on a normal middle class family budget or even in a public program if they get to skate often enough.

[Schmeck]

If my child was in a LTS program and the program allowed a skater who was behaving dangerously towards others on the ice, I'd be furious. This isn't soccer or track we're talking about here - skate blades can be a weapon, (they're not even allowed in carry-on luggage on a plane for the most part) and it has to be safety first. I don't care if the kid is disabled or not, if that child can't comprehend the seriousness of having knives tied to his/her feet, then how can a parent let the interests of that child be above the safety of others? Are you all saying that you wouldn't be upset if another child kicked out at your kid and punctured his shin, or worse yet, cut him across the neck if he was down on the ice?


A private rink with multiple ice surfaces does have the luxury of looser ice times, I agree. But they also have a huge tax burden and utility expenses. Our local multi-surface rink has actually cut back on ice time to save money on staffing and lighting. About the only time available for any new program would be during the school day at this rink. After school is full with hockey and freestyle ice. Hockey is a 12 month sport now around here.

A 1:1 staff for a special needs class would be great, but would people be willing to pay a $1 a minute for the lesson? That's what coaches get around here for 1:1 lessons. And I don't think they'd be all too happy to do a pay as you go type of deal - what if no one shows up? Or only a few kids come, and some of the coaches don't have students?

I understand the frustration of wanting your child to experience skating, and everything else there is to experience. I have kids too. And as I said before, I've been working in special education for 5+ years. I've actually tried to get a skating experience lined up for the students I work with, but the safety issue stopped us.

I hope everyone understands that I would love to see a successful program for any child that wants to skate. I just hope you all see the need for safety to come first, and responsibility. My girls spent many years in the LTS program, and that was our biggest sticking point - all the kids on the ice had to act appropriately and safely. If they were not mature enough to do that, they were off the ice. That would mean that yes, some 3 and 4 year olds were not ready to be skaters. It's not the end of the world. They were always able to come back later on that year, or even the next year, when they were ready.

[sk8lady]

And most students with disabilities (all that i have known-according to your standards would not be allowed to skate).


.

I think there is some confusion here--you appear to be saying that all the students you know with disabilities have violent behaviors. To be clear, I am talking about behaviors BEYOND the routine behaviors that can be easily controlled by someone teaching a group class (i.e., "She pushed me! I did not!"). If I have ten or more kids in a group class, it's very difficult for me to stop and restrain a kid who is intent on hurting someone else--whether they are disabled or not. If there are particular classes with enough staff who are specially trained and can keep everyone safe, that's great--but my responsibility is to make sure everyone in my general Basic Skills and hockey classes has fun and is relatively safe, given that skating is an inherently dangerous sport.

I'm an attorney with a child advocacy practice and have been working with kids with disabilities for 22 years, including a variety of autism spectrum issues. Some of them behave violently and some do not. We have a group of Special Olympic skaters at our rink who have been coming to skate every year for a number of years and I have never seen any of them behave violently on or off the ice; I've talked to their coaches many times, given them suggestions about how to teach various skills, and recommended that some of the kids look at the Basic Skills classes in the program where I coach. Do I think they should be skating? You bet I do. Do I think that my child client who routinely has a meltdown where she punches, kicks, spits, claws at people's faces, and grabs everything within reach to hit people with should be taking skating lessons? I do not.