Report on 2008 PSA Conference - CER

[dbny]

Since the Membership Meeting covered a topic vital to every coach in the US, I am reporting on that topic first, before finishing my summaries of other presentations.

PSA Membership Meeting - Kelley Morris Adair
This turned out to be a very important meeting because the new Continuing
Education Requirement (CER) was discussed. Coaches are being given 2 years to comply with the CER, so that full compliance is required by 2010. This requirement is a joint effort of the PSA and USFS. It will be up to LOC's and clubs to insure that it is met by all participating coaches, but the USFS will foot the bill in case of legal action against an LOC or club.

There are three levels of CER:

A) Coaches accompanying students to qualifying competitions
B) Coaches accompanying students to sanctioned events such as non-qual comps and test sessions
C) Coaches teaching group lessons only.

Level A coaches must complete 4 credits each year, level B coaches must complete 3 credits each year. There are currently no requirements for level C coaches, but there will be in the future. Coaches may test out of the education requirements in any of the categories, and testing can be done online, with the ability to re-test after 24 hours of a retry. The cost to coaches for testing will be $40/year. Unfortunately, I did not jot down the categories of education required, but do recall that some level of sports science/medicine is among them.

Lest any of us think this will not affect us, remember that a coach must sign every USFS test application, and every USFS sanctioned competition application. Tracking the CER will be automated with coaches receiving a 90 day and 30 day notification of their credits expiration date.

[happysk8tes]

Would there be another level, B- perhaps,

Coaches who teach group lessons and private lessons to students who want to learn for the fun of it, without testing and competing.

How costly is this CER for our coaches? Will these requirements price some great part time coaches out of skating? The conference fee, air fair and hotel fees are not cheap, so...

Will coaches be forced to raise their fees to cover the added expense of more testing?

Do the elite coaches have to take these tests?

Do Russian or Canadian coaches who coach in the US have to become certified?

I'm all for continuing education for coaches, but is this just another money maker for the USFS?

Pat

[dbny]

As I wrote above:

Level C - Coaches who only give group lessons. This includes coaches who may give private lessons, but whose students do not participate in any USFS sanctioned events such as test sessions, shows, non-qualifying competitions. Most coaches at this level will be teens who are registered as Basic Skills coaches with a USFS Learn To Skate program or an ISI program.

Again, above - $40/year

Foreign coaches with foreign students in US events do not have to meet the CER. Foreign coaches with US students do have to. Even elite coaches will have to meet these criteria. As I said above, one can test out of the requirements, but must pay for the tests.

[happysk8tes]

As I wrote above:

Level C - Coaches who only give group lessons. This includes coaches who may give private lessons, but whose students do not participate in any USFS sanctioned events such as test sessions, shows, non-qualifying competitions. Most coaches at this level will be teens who are registered as Basic Skills coaches with a USFS Learn To Skate program or an ISI program.

As an adult skater I've coached at this level at my old club before I moved last year, and would like to coach Basic 1-4 again at some time. But if the students are in shows....I guess this level ( or any) won't work for me in the future. Thank you for you clarification.

Again, above - $40/year

But this is on top of buying insurance. And I lived in a rural area when indoor rinks are only open in the winter, about five months of the year. 18 weeks of group lessons at the most. Not a lot of time to recoup the costs for a low level coach who could only teach at most one hour a week.

Foreign coaches with foreign students in US events do not have to meet the CER. Foreign coaches with US students do have to. Even elite coaches will have to meet these criteria. As I said above, one can test out of the requirements, but must pay for the tests.

So my wonderful dance coach from Canada may not want to go through the hoops to coach in the US. This is what I feared.

I'm not trying to shoot the messenger! Thanks for your information - I'm just trying to clarify what it may mean to me if I am able to coach again, and now I must wonder about my future ice dance lessons.

[kayskate]

Where would testing occur? Could it be done online? How expensive would study materials be? I know I cannot afford to travel to take a test. Anybody know?

Kay

[Clarice]

I'm concerned about this, too. Currently I would fit into Level C - I teach group classes, and private lessons to skaters below testing level. Coaching group numbers for shows would mean I'd have to be Level B, though. I currently belong to PSA and have their insurance, but my day job does not allow me to attend workshops, so I've been thinking of dropping my PSA membership and getting my insurance through USFSA. If I have to do continuing ed requirements for USFSA now, too, it may be too expensive for me ever to do anything above Level C, which would be an issue for our club, since we use lower level instructors for the group numbers for our shows. I'd like to retain my PSA membership, I'd actually like to do continuing ed, and I'd like to be able to keep helping my rink and club by instructing, but this may force me to remain at the lowest levels due to the cost. If our teen instructors find themselves in the same boat, it's really going to overload our full-time coaches when it comes to show preparations. What about synchro? I'm currently the coach for our adult synchro team - does that automatically mean I'd need to be Level B, since we do shows and competitions?

[Virtualsk8r]

As I wrote above:

Foreign coaches with foreign students in US events do not have to meet the CER. Foreign coaches with US students do have to. Even elite coaches will have to meet these criteria. As I said above, one can test out of the requirements, but must pay for the tests.

So my wonderful dance coach from Canada may not want to go through the hoops to coach in the US. This is what I feared.

I'm not trying to shoot the messenger! Thanks for your information - I'm just trying to clarify what it may mean to me if I am able to coach again, and now I must wonder about my future ice dance lessons.

Foreign coaches that move to work in Canada must become Canadian certified within two years of coaching and that includes American ones as well. Certainly credit is given for some courses for coaches with World medallists etc....and they can be fast tracked --- but all coaches must be NCCP certified in order to work with skaters in that country. So I wouldn't expect the USA to be any different.

If your wonderful Canadian dance coach is certified in Canada, then he should be well prepared to become certified in the USA. The certification requirements for coaching in Canada are very demanding, especially at the national and Olympic level - and both time consuming and costly....much more than the proposed American system.

In Canada, a coach must be NCCP Level 3 certified to take a skater to Canadians - and be Level 1 to partner/coach dance (theory level 1 $50, level 1 canskate course $350, take home assignment and marking, level 1 primary coaching $350, first aid $120, video lesson assessment fee, plus mentored coaching hours without pay, and once completed - coaching insurance and membership ( $120 per year approx.) before you take in any private students!!!

Plus Canadian coaches also have a continuing education program that is voluntary at the moment - but adds to their cache if they are CEP Gold status, which means 50 credits over two years of courses, etc.

So you can see why lazy Canadian skaters move to the US to coach, where all they have to do is hang up their shingle and start coaching. It's a lot of work to become a coach in Canada!

And all those Canadian coaches you see at World's or Olympics - are Level 4 certified.....which means they have not only had skaters in the top ten at Canadians but have completed at least 20 courses or tasks covering everything from sport management to injury recovery and regeneration and nutrition, along with technical courses -- to become certified in the sport.

BTW Marina Zoueva is Level 4 certifed in Canada, and I can think of half a dozen Canadian coaches working in the States with high level skaters, who are at least Level 3 certified in Canada before they left. So the USA got the best end of the deal with a highly trained, professionally certified coach!!!

[dbny]

I'm not trying to shoot the messenger! Thanks for your information - I'm just trying to clarify what it may mean to me if I am able to coach again, and now I must wonder about my future ice dance lessons.

I think if you are coaching groups only for shows, then you should be OK, but they are going to have to clarify that, IMO. The reason I think it's not going to require the CER is that you do not have to sign anything or send in any kind of application to have a group in a club or skate school show.

Where would testing occur? Could it be done online? How expensive would study materials be? I know I cannot afford to travel to take a test. Anybody know?


Testing is done online - thank goodness! There wasn't much about study materials. Typical PSA study guides are around $15 apiece. PSA also currently offers some online courses, which are priced at about $30 per credit.

I'm concerned about this, too. Currently I would fit into Level C - I teach group classes, and private lessons to skaters below testing level. Coaching group numbers for shows would mean I'd have to be Level B, though. I currently belong to PSA and have their insurance, but my day job does not allow me to attend workshops, so I've been thinking of dropping my PSA membership and getting my insurance through USFSA. If I have to do continuing ed requirements for USFSA now, too, it may be too expensive for me ever to do anything above Level C, which would be an issue for our club, since we use lower level instructors for the group numbers for our shows. I'd like to retain my PSA membership, I'd actually like to do continuing ed, and I'd like to be able to keep helping my rink and club by instructing, but this may force me to remain at the lowest levels due to the cost. If our teen instructors find themselves in the same boat, it's really going to overload our full-time coaches when it comes to show preparations. What about synchro? I'm currently the coach for our adult synchro team - does that automatically mean I'd need to be Level B, since we do shows and competitions?

There are certainly a lot of issues to consider. Hopefully, in a case like yours, your club/skate school would help you foot the bill. I do think you could get away with the shows, but since your synchro team competes, you would indeed be bumped up to level B.

It does seem like another money maker for USFS and PSA, but I'm not surprised that they are tightening the requirements for coaching in the US. I saw this coming years ago, which is why I joined the PSA and attended a conference in 2004, when my coaching income just barely covered the costs.

[Isk8NYC]

Is this the same "Coaches Membership Fee" that includes the annual rulebook or is it in ADDITION to the $40 special membership fee?

[phoenix]

I won't mind it if the education requirements are actually useful & informative. If the tests are so basic that anyone could pass them, then it will clearly be just a money making thing.

[Isk8NYC]

To do that, the educational products would have to be effective BEFORE the testing.

[Skittl1321]

Honestly, to me this is distressing. I'm pretty certain that these requirements will mean I'll lose my coach. (Or at least, can no longer test unless I find a new one.)

Similiarly, once Group C has requirements, I'll no longer be able to be a snowplow sam instructor. The amount of money these tests cost is not worth it for the compensation I recieve. I do it because I love working with the kids. But really, its an hour a week. I did "on the job training" to learn how to be an instructor. I have no delusions that I'm a high level coach, and for the level I am- I can't/won't output those fees.

[ice_godess]

That's the problem a lot of Canadian skaters have with coaching the learn to skate classes -- not enough time to take the three day course just for teaching CanSkate (or not enough courses in your area because they get full fast) -- and it costs about $500 to get certified once you add in the theory and first aid courses plus the technical course. But for a university student who is certified - the money is much better than flipping burgers at McD's and you get to do something you love.

There are also personal skating requirements to pass course for learn to skate level too! I think its two of junior bronze skills (MIF) dance or freeskate -- just to teach learn to skate! I know some skaters who never did dance or skills but had their gold freeskates, who had to go back and get their dances or skills in order to be certified. At least this maintains a standard minimum level of personal skill for coaches.

Some clubs get around the certification requirement by using skaters as program assistants, who are supervised by certified coaches. Maybe the US will adopt that system so that smaller clubs will still be able to function. I know some some clubs in Canada have one certified coach on a sesssion and four or five program assistants who give group lessons. The program assistants are paid a lot less - but it's still better than flipping burgers at McD's.

[Skittl1321]

The program assistants are paid a lot less - but it's still better than flipping burgers at McD's.

I actually think McDonalds pay is comparable to what the hourly rate is for lessons (for low level coaches at least)- and they could probably offer me more than 3 hours a week. (And really, I only teach 1 most weeks)

[w.w.west]

Is this the same "Coaches Membership Fee" that includes the annual rulebook or is it in ADDITION to the $40 special membership fee?


No. That is for the background check. The $40 covers the background check and a rulebook. That becomes effective this year. You won't be able to register as a coach this year without the background check.

[Isk8NYC]

Wow. ANOTHER $40 each year. The industry is going to lose a lot of good part-time coaches; maybe that's what the powers-that-be want, but I think it's a mistake from a business perspective.

All coaches have to pay for memberships in the ISI/USFSA/PSA, liability insurance coverage, seminar fees, PSA/ISI certifications, and now the USFSA background check/rulebook plus this new Education requirement/testing. If you're making a decent living doing this full-time, it doesn't have the impact. Part-timers have to think about how many lessons they have to teach to make a profit. Having been an independent IT consultant, the only way to cover the expenses was to increase rates and work more hours. Those aren't always options for part-timers with families or "day jobs."

Hopefully, the $40 will go for more than salaries and overhead. I don't have a problem with education or certifications, but they should be affordable and well-designed. From the various programs I've participated in, that's not in existence now.

[Virtualsk8r]

If you are being charged $40 for a background check, ask where that money goes! In Canada, all coaches must be police checked or background checked every two years for a cost of $26.25 submitted to the BackCheck company that has been independently hired to perform the checks. However, the forms MUST be notarized (even passports don't require notarization!!!), which can cost more money if there isn't a lawyer in your club....

Some coaches have been denied membership based on failing the background check and have had to seek employment outside the skating world.

[sk8lady]

My understanding is that if you are not coaching anyone participating in USFS sanctioned activities, you don't have to satisfy the CER requirements--because there are no actual licensing requirements for coaches (i.e., backed by law) the PSA/USFS can only control those hoping to participate in their own activities. Therefore, you must fulfill the CER to coach Basic Skills or take students to competitions, including Basic Skills competitions, but you can coach private students on public skating ice, or coach for club shows, without having to fulfill the requirements.

They weren't very clear about the testing--it almost sounded as though EVERYONE had to test as well as taking the CER. I'm not sure they really have a complete road map for what everyone needs to do at this point.

We have continuing education requirements for attorneys, and I have to say I haven't noticed an increase in the quality of the bar since the requirements were instituted. However, our state bar IS a lot better funded!!

[dbny]

My understanding is that if you are not coaching anyone participating in USFS sanctioned activities, you don't have to satisfy the CER requirements--because there are no actual licensing requirements for coaches (i.e., backed by law) the PSA/USFS can only control those hoping to participate in their own activities. Therefore, you must fulfill the CER to coach Basic Skills or take students to competitions, including Basic Skills competitions, but you can coach private students on public skating ice, or coach for club shows, without having to fulfill the requirements.

They weren't very clear about the testing--it almost sounded as though EVERYONE had to test as well as taking the CER.

In many cases club shows, and certainly skating school shows, do (or should) receive sanctions.

I thought they were clear about the testing - it's an alternative to the education credits. That is, one could "test out."

[w.w.west]

If you are being charged $40 for a background check, ask where that money goes! In Canada, all coaches must be police checked or background checked every two years for a cost of $26.25 submitted to the BackCheck company that has been independently hired to perform the checks. However, the forms MUST be notarized (even passports don't require notarization!!!), which can cost more money if there isn't a lawyer in your club....

Some coaches have been denied membership based on failing the background check and have had to seek employment outside the skating world.

It's $40 for a background check and a rulebook. The rulebook costs $18. So really, coaches should only be spending an extra $22 for the background check because every coach should have a current rulebook.....at least I hope so. If they don't, then shame on them.

[dbny]

It's $40 for a background check and a rulebook. The rulebook costs $18. So really, coaches should only be spending an extra $22 for the background check because every coach should have a current rulebook.....at least I hope so. If they don't, then shame on them.

There is no savings at all for those of us who are independent members of the USFS and get our rulebook that way!

[w.w.west]

There is no savings at all for those of us who are independent members of the USFS and get our rulebook that way!

Very true...forgot about that. Good point. It is apparent that some bugs need to be worked out. I'm in total agreement of each coach having the background check though.

[singerskates]

As I wrote above:


So my wonderful dance coach from Canada may not want to go through the hoops to coach in the US. This is what I feared.

I'm not trying to shoot the messenger! Thanks for your information - I'm just trying to clarify what it may mean to me if I am able to coach again, and now I must wonder about my future ice dance lessons.


Skate Canada already has it's coaches doing on going education for coaching. Though I don't know if Skate Canada's courses would apply to the USFSA or PSA?

[kayskate]

Now I pay for PSA full membership + insurance. That is almost $200/yr. Now I will have to add $40. This season, I also paid for ISI, but my rink converted to USFSA Basic skills, so I will drop ISI next season. Then I will have to find the $ for the tests and study materials.

Problem w increasing your rates to cover these expenses: economy in the US is already bad. It was a very slow yr. I work at a recreational rink. Our club went bust for lack of membership and funds. It was a slow yr for everyone. If I raise my rates, I am further pricing myself out of the market. I am already sucking up increased commute costs and cannot afford to drive to the rink to teach one private. Also kids will take a few privates to get over a hump in a LtS class then stop taking privates. If you get to pricey, you can lose that business. A lot of our students are *not* going to take privates b/c they cannot afford it.

I hope this testing is not just "ticket stamping". That would be a shame and a burden to good coaches who love to teach but cannot earn a full-time living doing it. IMO, it is very hard to earn a FT living as a coach unless you are elite. I know plenty of coaches w excellent credentials who have "real jobs" and lots of college student coaches w excellent credentials who are planning a different career b/c they cannot earn a living in coaching. Unless this testing is really value-added, it will push a lot of quality ppl out of the largely part-time profession.

Let's face it, we all teach basic skills, unless working at an ISI rink or rink that does its own thing, but those are getting less common, in my exp. Anyone who has worked a winter season knows how busy LtS is at its peak. Our manager had to hire lots of extra ppl to pick up the extra classes. I wish the rink would just give LtS more ice time so each coach could have more classes, but that is not practical w the high value of ice at peak season. Now those extra ppl will not be certified. Who will teach the peak season classes?

Kay

[Isk8NYC]

Very true...forgot about that. Good point. It is apparent that some bugs need to be worked out. I'm in total agreement of each coach having the background check though.
It's okay that you didn't realize there were independent member coaches who already receive a rulebook. However, it was pointed out to the USFSA on the coaches' group board when the initial proposal came out. I had thought that an allowance was to be made, but I guess it didn't make the final resolution. I actually asked for a CD/ROM copy, which I've found invaluable. It's far less expensive for the USFSA to package and ship, but they insisted on sending me the bulky paper version instead. Now I would be getting two copies. Arrrgh.

It's very easy to cross-check the membership rolls electronically. If an independent member renews, then the coaching membership rider should be less. Only one copy of the manual should be sent.

I have no problem with a background check, but I think it's overpriced. Our little swim league only charged $10 for a full-blown background check on our coaches. (Which we coaches paid.) Maybe someone underwrote the cost anonymously? Still, you'd think that the USFSA would be able to get a break on the cost given the number of coaches involved.

Sorry to be so negative, but the MBA in me is getting indignant at the barriers to entry that have been put up by the USFSA in the past few years. I don't like the fact that the US has been so very lax in coaching requirements in the past. The Olympics are still two years off - many coaches and skating programs are just hoping to hang on for the wave of new skaters that will result.

The USFSA just hired a new Development Director - couldn't they ask him to look into funding sources to keep the startup costs lower for these two endeavours?

[w.w.west]

It's very easy to cross-check the membership rolls electronically. If an independent member renews, then the coaching membership rider should be less. Only one copy of the manual should be sent.



Sounds logical. Hopefully they have already thought of that.


I don't like the fact that the US has been so very lax in coaching requirements in the past.



Yes. Up until now virtually anyone who can skate can coach (unless the particular rink took measures to check potential coaches out.) It's been a long time coming. Hopefully, the bugs will be worked out soon.


The USFSA just hired a new Development Director - couldn't they ask him to look into funding sources to keep the startup costs lower for these two endeavours?

One would think. Would be nice if that was one of his assignments wouldn't it?

[kayskate]

I have no problem with a background check, but I think it's overpriced. Our little swim league only charged $10 for a full-blown background check on our coaches. (Which we coaches paid.) Maybe someone underwrote the cost anonymously? Still, you'd think that the USFSA would be able to get a break on the cost given the number of coaches involved.


I have paid $75 for finger printing/ background check to teach in public schools. it can get pretty ridiculous. I wonder why there is such a disparity.

Kay

[Isk8NYC]

I have paid $75 for finger printing/ background check to teach in public schools. it can get pretty ridiculous. I wonder why there is such a disparity.
It really makes you wonder what the bids were for the background checks. Was the company they selected the most expensive or the least expensive? I'd hope it was a bid in the middle somewhere, esp. since these checks have to be updated annually.

[Skittl1321]

I have paid $75 for finger printing/ background check to teach in public schools. it can get pretty ridiculous. I wonder why there is such a disparity.

Kay

Our fingerprinting/background check is $52- but it's only every 5 years (when you renew your license) plus whatever the police office charges to print you (though some will do it for free). $40 a year seems a bit insane to me- I'm beginning to think it's just a money maker for the USFSA.

I honestly don't have a problem with the background checks, but I don't really like the idea of mandatory credentials. If I want to take lessons from a coach who has done nothing other than put on a pair of skates and learned to stand up- why should that prohibit me from testing? Since I'm the one taking the test- shouldn't it be my credential (ie, membership) be the one that matters?

I really agree with Kay that this is going to hurt LTS programs once it trickles down to that. The part time help for peak season who gets 1-2 hours a week for 3 months isn't going to want to out put the money it takes to get these credentials. Or can the rink just call them "helpers"? (But would that affect insurance since they are not registered as instructors?)

[Isk8NYC]

I really agree with Kay that this is going to hurt LTS programs once it trickles down to that. The part time help for peak season who gets 1-2 hours a week for 3 months isn't going to want to out put the money it takes to get these credentials. Or can the rink just call them "helpers"? (But would that affect insurance since they are not registered as instructors?)DBNY said in her OP that the group instructors' educational requirements aren't defined as yet. My guess is that that's why the USFSA has been offering the Basic Skills Learn to Teach workshops - that would probably be their educational requirement. That's an outstanding workshop - I loved every minute of it and the on-ice presentation was excellent because the woman who led it was a very experienced, high-level instructor/director.

Instructors for Basic Skills programs are supposed to be registered with the USFSA through each program so they're covered by the insurance policy. The individual liability insurance policies are intended for instructors who also offer private lessons.

The fly in the ointment is that, as DBNY points out, a group lesson instructor whose GROUP is in a sanctioned show could find him/herself in a different category of the education requirements. It's not clear whether that would 'bump up' the instructor's category.

[Skittl1321]

DBNY said in her OP that the group instructors' educational requirements aren't defined as yet. My guess is that that's why the USFSA has been offering the Basic Skills Learn to Teach workshops - that would probably be their educational requirement.

Yep- that's why I made reference to trickling down...

My question about insurance was for when rinks aren't able to utilze full-time instructors for busy season (ie., many hire skaters who aren't really coaches to teach low level classes) and just use "helpers" instead. Right now, our rink registers these helpers as instructors, but once there will be formal requirements to be an instructor, they won't be able to do this.

I would love to go to a Basic Skills Learn to Teach workshop- but the only one I've heard of was well across the state (and at an inconvienent time) travel costs alone- would make that prohbitive. I'm just hoping it takes a long time for any regulations to trickle down to Group C. (As that affects my coaching) and I guess I'll have to hope it's worth the money for my coach to stay in the business- or else I'll have to find someone else to sign my test papers. (Maybe have a secondary coach just for that?)

[Isk8NYC]

I can see people getting around the rules by team-coaching. Or, having a more formal Master Coach:Assistant Coach relationship as do many of the elite coaches.

[w.w.west]

Ice Shows and Club events are excluded from the CER requirement. You can see where they have been crossed off on the Report of Action on usfigureskaing.org. So that's good news!

[Clarice]

Ice Shows and Club events are excluded from the CER requirement. You can see where they have been crossed off on the Report of Action on usfigureskaing.org. So that's good news!

Yay! I agree! So at this point you only have to worry about the continuing ed stuff if you're coaching skaters for testing or competition, right? I'll be interested to see what kind of future requirements they have for us Group C folks. I wonder whether there might be a way for us to learn from the Group A or B coaches at our own rinks? That would certainly be accessible.

[kayskate]

Instructors for Basic Skills programs are supposed to be registered with the USFSA through each program so they're covered by the insurance policy. The individual liability insurance policies are intended for instructors who also offer private lessons.


Got to jump in here. I have taught basic skills at 4 rinks. Not one of them covered me on any policy other than my own through PSA. I only taught privates at 2 of those rinks, and 1 of them was so few privates it was insane.

Kay

[kayskate]

I would love to go to a Basic Skills Learn to Teach workshop- but the only one I've heard of was well across the state (and at an inconvienent time) travel costs alone- would make that prohbitive. I'm just hoping it takes a long time for any regulations to trickle down to Group C. (As that affects my coaching) and I guess I'll have to hope it's worth the money for my coach to stay in the business- or else I'll have to find someone else to sign my test papers. (Maybe have a secondary coach just for that?)

I would also love to attend the workshop, if it is not cost prohibitive. ie: if I don't have to cancel lessons or miss work. Now that is just about impossible since I work 6 days/wk in season. WS would have to be offered off-season to make it realistic. However, many of us have second jobs that we may need to take time off from.

IMO, an online, or self-study program should be an alternative for those who cannot attend far-flung WSs that don't fit into their schedules.

Another comment while I'm at it. Let's face it, a lot of us primarily teach LtS, and beginner to low FS privates. Personally, I only have 1 student who would even be interested in testing and she is not ready for pre-pre yet. Okay, it's a slow yr and hopefully my business will grow. But for those who are not higher level coaches, it does not make sense for us to be Grp B and pay the required $ for certification if we only have a couple low FS students who may or may not test or may or may not compete or may drop out any minute depending on how the wind blows. I know where I am as a coach. I am not going to be an elite coach. Period. I think there are a lot of coaches who love coaching and are good at what they do who are in the same boat.

Please don't get me wrong, I am all for becoming a better coach, and education, etc. But I have to keep things in perspective and w/in budget.

Kay

[Clarice]

Please don't get me wrong, I am all for becoming a better coach, and education, etc. But I have to keep things in perspective and w/in budget.

Kay

I totally agree with Kay! I hate doing things halfway, and would love to keep improving as a coach. But teaching skating is only a part-time thing for me. I didn't go to the PSA conference, much as I would have liked to, because I'm going to a professional conference for my "real" job this summer, and couldn't afford both. My goal as a coach is to do the best job I can teaching Basic Skills, and then pass my students up to more qualified coaches. I'm all for the background checks (although I'm not sure why it has to be done annually) and insurance, and think continuing ed is a great idea, but they need to find a way to make it affordable and accessible for those of us who don't make very much at it or we won't be able to do it.

[manleywoman]

Just curious: have any of you voiced your complaints directly to the PSA? Would seem helpful to them if they knew where the discrepancies/holes were in their membership.

[w.w.west]

Got to jump in here. I have taught basic skills at 4 rinks. Not one of them covered me on any policy other than my own through PSA. I only taught privates at 2 of those rinks, and 1 of them was so few privates it was insane.

Kay

Then you need to check with your employer. If you receive a check through the rink/recreation dept., you should be covered under the group policy as an employee.

[sk8lady]

Then you need to check with your employer. If you receive a check through the rink/recreation dept., you should be covered under the group policy as an employee.

We had this same problem...the rink manager thought the city pollicy would cover the coaches for our local (non USFS) program. I explained for years to people that we weren't salaried employees, or even part-time city employees. Given the way they paid us, we were clearly independent contractors...making everyone responsible for their own insurance.

The USFS policy will cover anyone coaching on Basic Skills ice, but not on separate club ice. For that you need private liability insurance.

The cost of the background checks will be less next year if you have insurance through the PSA or the USFS--without insurance, it's more along the lines of $140.00.

[Skittl1321]

The USFS policy will cover anyone coaching on Basic Skills ice, but not on separate club ice. For that you need private liability insurance.



USFS explained to me and the LTS director that the insurance would cover me on any ice time as long as the student I was teaching was registered with USFS Basic Skills (So snowplow through freeskate 6) including private lessons.

I only have insurance through the program, so I was very wary about that. I still don't take private lessons, but they told me if it was an LTS registered student doing the privates (that is paid the $8 membership fee), I would be covered.

[Isk8NYC]

The USFS policy will cover anyone coaching on Basic Skills ice, but not on separate club ice. For that you need private liability insurance. That was my understanding as well. I haven't taught ISI in a few years, but I already had my own policy, so I don't know if their LTS covers both the students and the instsructors.

I don't know, Skittl. All the Basic Skills rinks I've taught at have always required individual policies for anyone doing privates, but the group lessons were covered by the skating school's policy. Two were private, two were municipal rink/private club hybrids. Perhaps it's based on the facility's insurance coverage: my new rink requires the individual policy for everyone teaching.

[Isk8NYC]

Just curious: have any of you voiced your complaints directly to the PSA? Would seem helpful to them if they knew where the discrepancies/holes were in their membership.
They were voiced on a coaches' forum last year during a discussion with the USFSA. To my knowledge, the PSA did not participate.

To whom should we address our concerns?

[w.w.west]

They were voiced on a coaches' forum last year during a discussion with the USFSA. To my knowledge, the PSA did not participate.

To whom should we address our concerns?

I think you may have gotten the quotes confused? I think you meant to respond to the one about contacting the PSA. But I'll give my .02 anyway.

If you have legitimate concerns/questions about the CER or background check, you need to contact the committee that brought about the proposal. I believe it is the Membership committee. If you go to the ROA on USFS.org, it will tell you where it came from. You could either contact your respective Vice Chair from your section or the Chair directly. You could contact the PSA about questions on the CER, but they wouldn't have anything to do with the background check.

[dbny]

USFS explained to me and the LTS director that the insurance would cover me on any ice time as long as the student I was teaching was registered with USFS Basic Skills (So snowplow through freeskate 6) including private lessons.

I only have insurance through the program, so I was very wary about that. I still don't take private lessons, but they told me if it was an LTS registered student doing the privates (that is paid the $8 membership fee), I would be covered.

That's strange because I spoke with Jill Hare, Basic Skills Program Manager at USFS, this past winter about exactly this issue. Our management was allowing uninsured teenagers to give private lessons on the public sessions. I suspect that the girls were not even registered as BS coaches with our program, as none of them ever received a BS Coach's Manual. Jill told me that the determining factor in covering Basic Skills Program coaches is the designation of the ice. If the ice has been specifically designated for the use of the program during the time of the private lesson, then the coach is covered. A Basic Skills Program coach giving a private lesson on a public session would not be covered except by her/his own insurance. I suspect that there simply has not yet been a test case, so the rules are still fuzzy. I would not want to be the test case for this issue.

[blue111moon]

If the ice has been specifically designated for the use of the program during the time of the private lesson, then the coach is covered. A Basic Skills Program coach giving a private lesson on a public session would not be covered except by her/his own insurance.

This is what I was told as well. As my club's Basic Skills Director, I had to register all of our instructors, even the teenaged helpers, as instructors for them to be covered, and the coverage was in effect only for the Basic Skills ice time. If the instructors wanted to coach on other club sessions or on the rink's sessions then they needed their own private insurance.

The hockey group I've coached for has required CORI checks of the coaches for several years; The first one was free (covered by the ogranization) but in subsequent years, they deducted a small amount from the paycheck (like $2 or $3) to cover the cost of updating. Considering the issues hockey has had recently, I didn't mind, especially since I knew there was nothing on my record to find. Better safe than sorry, I say.

Although my club has had one very-part-time coach quit already, due to the rising cost of gas and the increased costs of mainting memberships and insurance. She says she can make more money selling Avon. :)

[Isk8NYC]

I think you may have gotten the quotes confused? So sad - I think I need glasses. Thanks for the heads up - I edited my post.

[Skittl1321]

Thanks all- guess I need to put a new call into USFS. I've been reassured many times by my LTS director and by someone at USFS (didn't get the name) that I'd be covered for privates- but like I said, I don't do privates (I've turned students away in the past. I'm not interested in teaching private lessons) so its a bit moot for me. However, I know others at the rink who are registered as instructors without additional insurance who do because our LTS director is so insistant that the insurance is enoguh. EEK

I do teach girl scout groups though- and I'm getting nervous that I'm not covered for that either. Might have to stop doing that.

[Virtualsk8r]

I'd check your insurance coverage just to be safe -- a girl scout troup being instructed outside of a skating club's sessions - probably is not covered by your coaching insurance. However, you might be covered by the girl scout insurance policies. Check with them before you cancel out next season.

I know that in Canada, certified coaches are not covered for their $1million worth of liability if they coach outside of the Skate Canada system. So if they rent private ice at a local rink to work with non-Skate Canada members - they are liable. But if coaches work with Skate Canada members on private ice rented from their club or centre etc. they are covered.

Skate Canada certified coaches that teach in a city program or special needs program etc. are not covered by their coaching insurance but are covered by the city or special needs program insurance.

[Skittl1321]

I have emails into the Girl Scout Council (where I am registered as an adult volunteer- so I might be covered under their insurance, and I know the girls are all covered under theirs) and USFSA. Sorry to thread hijack- but I'm glad you all set me right that my LTS director might be wrong!

[kayskate]

Seems there are 2 issues here: new expenses that are a concern for PT coaches and insurance.

IMO, every coach should carry insurance. It is not that expensive. The reality of our world is that some ppl are lawsuit happy. In a separate thread, I listed 3 falls that occurred under my tutelage. I crazy parent may have tried to sue. Best to be covered. You never know when you will get a private. You probably won't want to turn it down b/c you are not insured. In any case, CYA.

Kay

[sk8lady]

Ditto to the max!! I'm a lawyer and my malpractice insurance costs, LITERALLY, ten times as much as the PSA insurance so it seems like a bargain to me. It would cost you more just pay a retainer to a lawyer to get a judge to dismiss an insane lawsuit than it would to buy the insurance. It's worth it to me just for the peace of mind.