:?: Change edge spins? Help!

[singerskates]

:?: Coach wants me to start working on change edge spins on forward upright spin positions and sit spin positions. How is this done? Tips? I can spin on an outside edge on my forward upright positions but I can't change to an inside edge from it or to it yet. We're looking at ways to raise the levels in my spins. I have about 3 or 4 positions I can use in my forward upright (some with catching the free foot) and about 3 positions I can use in my sit spin but would like to add changing the edge as a feature for the 2008/2009 season.

Currently I compete as an Adult Bronze skater but if I can do this and land all my jumps up to lutz clean, I'd like to try competing in Adult Silver.

[coskater64]

Not sure how it works in Canada but in the US the edge changes that count are outside on the forward spin and inside on the back spin. Obviously in all positions sit, camel, layback, upright. A forward inside edge spin is not a variation in the US, just the forward upright in on an outside edge counts.

At least those were the rules for last year...:giveup:

[NoVa Sk8r]

I think it is much easier to change edge in the back spin position (and you also get the back entrance as a feature)!

The "normal" spin edges are back outside (BO) for the back spin and the back inside (BI) for the forward spin. Is that what you meant, i.e, you want to change from BI to FO for the forward spin?

I was told to work on loop figures and to do 3-turns. For example, for the change of edge in the back spin, work on doing the RBO to RFI 3-turn and holding the RFI edge (and feeling your hip position). You can also think of doing a 3-turn while you are spinning, and also by changing your hips, thereby mimicking the above exercise. It doesn't work for everyone, but it has helped me.

[techskater]

Loops, loops, and more loops (figure type).

[Sessy]

What exactly is a backwards entrance?

[techskater]

A spin (usually combo) that starts as a back spin versus a forward spin

[jp1andOnly]

just so you know....juvie skaters in the competitive stream won't be getting anything above a level 1. Supposedly starskaters will only get called a level 1 (depending on freeskate level) Wouldn't be surprised if the adults get called level 1.

I would work on my basics before attempting change of edge spins. Perhaps you could try the prelim test first (if you havent already) because thats a good step. Better basics make change of spins way easier.

:?: Coach wants me to start working on change edge spins on forward upright spin positions and sit spin positions. How is this done? Tips? I can spin on an outside edge on my forward upright positions but I can't change to an inside edge from it or to it yet. We're looking at ways to raise the levels in my spins. I have about 3 or 4 positions I can use in my forward upright (some with catching the free foot) and about 3 positions I can use in my sit spin but would like to add changing the edge as a feature for the 2008/2009 season.

Currently I compete as an Adult Bronze skater but if I can do this and land all my jumps up to lutz clean, I'd like to try competing in Adult Silver.

[MQSeries]

[QUOTE=singerskates;365741I can spin on an outside edge on my forward upright positions but I can't change to an inside edge from it or to it yet. We're looking at ways to raise the levels in my spins. [/QUOTE]

The expected spinning edge for a forward upright spin is on an inside edge. Going to the ouside edge on a fwd spin is much more difficult. If you are already doing it on an outside edge than that's good. Switching to the inside edge should be a matter of just shifting your weight slightly so that you're leaning more inside the spinning circle.

[singerskates]

just so you know....juvie skaters in the competitive stream won't be getting anything above a level 1. Supposedly starskaters will only get called a level 1 (depending on freeskate level) Wouldn't be surprised if the adults get called level 1.

Why are they robbing the potential for getting higher marks with higher levels from the Pre-Juv and Juv skaters? And if they do that to us Adult skaters and the StarSkaters, then that's just criminal. Why even try to get higher levels? Why do they just want to make it about the jumps? Why can't we have the chance of winning a competition with the program component marks, spins and step sequence (step and/or spiral)? It's like they are pulling the rug out from under neath the non-competitive stream skaters and the Juvenile skaters. That is so unfair!!!

[kayskate]

IMO, the most natural spin for change of edge is camel whether forward or back. To experiment, do a basic forward camel. Bend your skating knee and rock back on the blade. You will hit a FO edge. This is a kneeling camel. The classic FO camel is on a locked knee. The Lussi video explains is as a hooked entrance to a BI edge (which is the typical camel) then a BI3 to a FO edge for the spin. This is very difficult, IMO. However, the kneeling version really allows you to experiment w shifting wt.

Kay

[slusher]

That sounds hard. Where do you hit the camel position, on the entrance to the BI edge or do you open up into the camel after the BI3? I like the bent knee camel, I do that already ;)

Thanks for the spin advice Kay, I'd love to spin like you.

(singerskates: There's a reason why juvenile skaters are called jumping beans. If they have five clean doubles and decent skating skills, the test isn't a problem and they don't need to fluff it with levels)

[jp1andOnly]

Because they want skaters to have strong basic spins! so basically work on STRONG basic spins and STRONG jumps. If you have strong spins, jumps, skating skills, etc, you will be rewarded with positive GOE.


Why are they robbing the potential for getting higher marks with higher levels from the Pre-Juv and Juv skaters? And if they do that to us Adult skaters and the StarSkaters, then that's just criminal. Why even try to get higher levels? Why do they just want to make it about the jumps? Why can't we have the chance of winning a competition with the program component marks, spins and step sequence (step and/or spiral)? It's like they are pulling the rug out from under neath the non-competitive stream skaters and the Juvenile skaters. That is so unfair!!!

[singerskates]

The reason I'm working on getting higher levels is that the jumps at Adult Bronze and Adult Silver and even Adult Gold don't amount to many points. Believe me, my basic positions have gotten much much stronger since Adult Canadians and I am lower than 90 degrees now in my sit. I've also been working those basic edges, turns and crosscuts to neaten them up as I'm trying to up the anti on my program component mark even more. I want to get at least a 2 and possibly a 3 before factoring in the program component section of my mark in every part. Having a coach that is there for me all the time is really making the difference now. As before, I couldn't get a coach to work with me much. When I went to Adult Canadians, I had only 4 lessons with my current coach out of club because well you already know the story. I for the most part was working on my own for the last year until spring skating school. The year before that, it seemed the club I just left was always taking away from my ice time by getting me to work with other skaters. I missed many lessons from the coach I had then.

When you see me this comming Adult Canadians, I'll be a much much stronger skater. I might even move up to Adult Silver or Adult Gold by Adult Canadians.

I still stand by the thinking that if you can do the higher level of a spin, step sequence or spiral sequence that you should be rewarded for doing it. Obviously if you can't do the basic spin well enough, you shouldn't be doing a higher level spin. It's like someone attempting a 3 Axel when they can't even do a single Axel. Also, you won't be seeing me do a full split in a spiral sequence, as my body just doesn't do it. But I will try different positions in my spiral sequence in competition so long as I can consistantly get both my free knee and foot at least 10 degrees higher than my hip. I'm already past that and shooting for more.

When you saw me skate at Adult Canadians, I did what few skaters would do, I skated in skates that were only 2 and half weeks new out of the box. I was only using 2 hooks to do up my skates because I had no bend in them at all. I also didn't have the time to adjust to my new skates either so I lost my change edge spiral until just this past week. And now it's stronger than ever. I also know how the judges count the spiral positions. So I won't be making that mental mistake by letting go of a position too early which gave me a big fat zero for the spiral sequence and plumented me down to last place.

And now that this situation has gotten me mad, I'm still going for the levels even if I don't get the marked for the higher levels in spins and spiral sequences. It might not pay for me now but when I get past Adult Gold, it will pay.

[kayskate]

That sounds hard. Where do you hit the camel position, on the entrance to the BI edge or do you open up into the camel after the BI3? I like the bent knee camel, I do that already ;)


You hit the camel in the hook. Yes, it is very hard to do the Lussi camel. I have never mastered it. I get to the FO, then hit a flat and grind to a stop.

Kay

[Kristin]

Singerskates,

I'm not that far away from you & if you want, one day you & I could meet up on the ice. I am already an Adult Silver level skater (passed my USFSA Adult Silver test & compete at that level in the US) and could give you some spin/jump tips if you want to get you over some of those hurdles you are having.

Let me know! I have a little more time now that competition season is done. I think skating in Canada would be fun & I haven't seen you in a while.

Kristin

[Mel On Ice]

what were you doing skating in brand new skates at a national competition?! I made that rookie mistake my first time out and would never imagine doing it again.

I'm with jp, show them strong elements, esp. at bronze. One of the hardest things to judge is a poor spin with a billion changes of position and changes of edge. I rushed the combo spin at the end of my program at AN, and I think I barely got two revs in each position, a spin so poor in quality, that my coach and I are confident I didn't get credit for it at all.

Show them good basics and go from there.

[Madame Saccoche]

[QUOTE=jp1andOnly;365832]just so you know....juvie skaters in the competitive stream won't be getting anything above a level 1. Supposedly starskaters will only get called a level 1 (depending on freeskate level) Wouldn't be surprised if the adults get called level 1.


Some of the skaters in the competitive category at 2008 Nationals were getting 3s and 4s for footwork and spins so it seems to be theoretically possible but.... from my experience at Nats unless the element is really well done the judges will downgrade it.

[singerskates]

what were you doing skating in brand new skates at a national competition?! I made that rookie mistake my first time out and would never imagine doing it again.


I had no choice but to skate in new skates because I lost so much weight that my feet were sliding sideways in the previous skate boots. And because of sliding sideways in the previous boots, I skated really poorly having no balance at all until getting into my current boots. I just wish I would have bought the skates in December 2007 at least, then I would have skated much better then I did and I would not have injured my hip and calves. Those injury have cleared themselves up.

And yes, the coach has me working getting everything stronger and neater. My spins have to be stronger and neater to add the other variations and to try changing edges. Otherwise, I'd just wipe right out and die. LOL